Is my partner a narcissist?

Hey,

I was talking to somebody the other day about my problems with my partner and she suggest he sounds like a narcissist, so I'm just here to get a bit of advice from people who have dealt with or who actually are narcissists.

So, we have been together for almost 3 years and we have a 6 month old daughter. I've known him for 5 years and those first two years we were just friends and didn't really see each other very often so I didn't know his personality that well. He moved to New Zealand and then we started talking a lot online, fell in love and then I moved over to New Zealand to be with him. When we talked online he was everything I wanted and more. He was caring, romantic, attentive and seemed quite virile.
Within weeks of me arriving in Nz I had noticed his personality had changed completely. He admitted that he is not in the slightest romantic and that he has a very low sex life. I felt a bit duped by this admission but decided that those two things aren't everythjng in a relationship so to work on what we did have.
Things have just gradually got worse and worse since then. A few of the things he does that make me think he's a narcissist:

- he insults me but calls it a joke and says I need to lighten up when I get upset or take offence
- when he says mean things to me he CONSTANTLY tells me I take things too personally - my view on this is that any woman wouldn't be happy with jibes from their partner about their weight (I've just had a baby!), their breasts (again, just had a baby and breastfed), he tells me I'm not his usual type and would prefer other attributes. Then when I get upset at that he tells me to stop being so sensitive.
- I feel he says things to me that he KNOWS are going to get a rise out of me and then chastises me when I react badly. He seems to have latched on the the way I react to things and now, even if I don't react badly, he'll start an argument but tell me I created the argument by having a bad reaction (to something abrasive or hurtful that he said in the first place!)
-he constantly points out my flaws in my personality and then tells me that I need to tell him that I recognise these flaws. Even though I have done this he seems to be obsessed with me voicing my own flaws.
- some days he will just criticise me constantly but in a very sly way so that if I call him out on it, his back is covered and he can twist it and say that I'm just react if badly again
- he thinks his opinion is always correct and won't rest until I agree with him. He will repeat things over and over and if I voice my own opinion on the subject I get the same old "why are you reacting so badly?" Line.
- he always has to be right. Even when he's wrong and he knows it, he will come out with so much crap and change the subject so he doesn't have to admit it. But the few times I have finally got him to admit that's he's wrong he twists it onto me again and starts pointing out my flaws


The I go above is just skimming the surface really, there's a lot more.
I just don't know what to do. This has been going on for three years and I just don't understand why he's like this. He's right that I react badly sometimes but more often than not, I don't react at all because I know hats what he wants. He argues everything I say and then says that he does that because there are always other options or opinions, even on the smallest things like how to wash the dishes.
A typical conversation would go:

Me "when you wash the dishes please can you make sure you wipe the outside of the cups too. I noticed a few were still dirty after you had washed up" (said with no malice, no anger just.... Said)
Him -no response-
Me "hey Hun did you hear me?"
Him "yes I did. The outsides don't need wiping because they don't et touched by food"
Me "but there's dirt on them that I can see?"
Him "but that's just one example, 99% of the time there's no dirt so it doesn't need doing. Besides, the water in the sink washes it clean so you don't need to wipe it. There's no need for it."
Me "Erm, ok, well maybe at least check that they're clean?"
Him "why are you getting so defensive? We are just having a discussion, there's no need to react so badly"
(This is the point at which I will either continue or walk away, depending on what mood I'm in. I usually walk away but for the sake of the post I'll continue. Note that if I do walk away, he'll wait a few minutes then continue)
Me "I didn't react badly at all, I just told you it's still dirty"
Him "why do you criticise everything I do? You're not so perfect yourself you know?"
Me "this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I just asked you to make sure you're washing the dishes properly!!"
Him "wow, calm down why are you reacting like this? All I said was that I'll check to make sure next time"
Me (I start doubting myself now and wonder if I did react badly, did he actually say he would check next time? Did I continue the argument even though he'd said he would do it?)

This happens very often and I've found myself doubting everything I say. I've even thought about recording the arguments so that I can remember what's being said. How crazy is that?!

I really need help on how to deal with this. I feel like I am heading toward breaking up with him but I don't want that to happen. I do still love him (though with each of these arguments that seems to get less) and we have our beautiful little girl to think about, I don't want to put her through all of that.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Dobsd wrote:He argues everything I say and then says that he does that because there are always other options or opinions, even on the smallest things like how to wash the dishes.

Ha. I remember doing that with the person who ended up causing me to face what's wrong with me. I had a "method" for using the least amount of water, least amount of soap, how to stack the dishes to dry. It was a work of art. Russell Crowe "Beautiful Mind" stuff!

A lot of what you describe sounds N. It may help you to know that his criticism and put downs: he lives that way internally. He's not doing to you anything more than he does to himself. N is like the "little man's syndrome." He's so fearful of [something, it may be different for each N, I don't know. For me it was/is self-sufficiency, security, stability] that his mind created a "False Self" to over-compensate. It pushes him in the same way it pushes you. It rationalizes how others are more the problem than the solution.

When you can see him that way it may be easier to give him what he needs, like you'd give a 2-year-old child. Or, like a family might overlooks their short-stature father who rules with the authority of Napolean. It's all about him, not you.

But, it's more pathological than that.

You could give your partner affirmation that you're part of the solution, not the problem. Go along with his high standards, his OCD-like need for perfection, not take anything personally. But, I don't think that will work the same as if you were dealing with a "little man's syndrome." For example, if you did that with me, nothing would satisfy me. I would test more/harder. I would devalue you because now that I feel secure, "I could have met someone locally instead of fishing online (where they can't see me). I could have done better. She's holding me back."

I would never see your compliance as you recognizing my problem and "completing" me. It would have been more like the way space agencies "slingshot" around planets like Jupiter to gain speed and go further, faster. Whenever I was in a relationship, it was like my self-worth increased and all I could think of was how I could have done better. The person was just a body of mass for me to "slingshot" from.

Part of me didn't want it to be that way. I sincerely just wanted a companion. Someone to share life with. But, the False Self is so powerful, it turned into not just that I could do better, but I deserved better. And someone else deserved me more.

You said things became different as soon as you were together. It's always been like that for me. It goes from a challenge (to reach the goal, being together, moving in, committed) to boredom (to keep the progress going). I worked with a couple in Germany who lived together for 6 years because they wanted to "be sure." Six months after they married they split, wouldn't speak to each other, etc.

That always stood out to me because I could relate to it. I used it as justification to rush into things because "you can never be sure." Knowing what I do about myself now, I suspect the male in that relationship was N. I think it was a "project" for him until the moment it wasn't. That's how I view(ed?) relationships. It was a process. Once I had someone, then what?

I'll think about how you might be able to relate to your partner. But, the best advice: see a therapist.

When I think about if anyone could have treated me differently so I'd feel "safe." Or, if anyone could have said something to cause me to see myself differently, I'm not very hopeful. I had to do things myself. Nobody was going to show me anything I wouldn't find myself. If anyone met my needs and placated me, I would have felt some contempt for them (how could they settle for the me which I know can be so much better?).

I think it's a delicate balance between maintaining your individuality (boundaries) while not taking his lack thereof personally. Recognizing how he's looking to see himself reflected in you (the "getting a rise out of you," winning the argument, etc.). Don't take things personally, just understand. But, don't surrender either.

With the proper understanding, there may be a way to help him see things differently for *himself*. (Not you seeing it and showing him). For example, the picking at you and his saying that there are different ways to see things:

Dobsd wrote:He argues everything I say and then says that he does that because there are always other options or opinions, even on the smallest things like how to wash the dishes.

I did things like that. I genuinely enjoyed a good debate. I honestly felt I just wanted to follow the truth. You might be able to assert a light amount of individuality and boundary if you can remind him that he himself enjoys exploring other options/opinions, everyone's different. That it's not personal. For example, how some people (like you) enjoy taking life a day at a time, not obsessing (I wouldn't use that word to him) over little things, just the moment and those you're with.

That's the kind of stuff I could relate to if it wasn't presented as a "me against you" argument. If the other person could validate that it's necessary to be the ant (in the story of the ant and the lazy grasshopper who was caught unprepared). It's good to be prepared for the unexpected. But what is life if all we do is work and protect ourselves? When we reach the end, will we regret we didn't take some time to just enjoy the smaller things? Enjoying the people we're with (instead of striving to be better, and make them better)? But, it *really* has to be done in a way that it's not "me against you" or that you're promoting recklessness against his being "responsible." (I'm projecting myself onto him. I don't know if he thinks that way. That's how I was.).

You have to understand that he's dealing with a harsh critic within himself. That critic is torturing him more than you. He needs validation from that critic more than he needs it from you. You're literally in a 3-way relationship. If you can show him you understand and aren't a threat -- while maintaining independence and showing a better way (in the way he needs to see it, as a logical choice that doesn't undermine the way he copes), he might view you as part of the solution.

Is he aware of personality disorder traits? Does he have a "vocabulary" in this area? For me, I would have never realized what's wrong with me without having that vocabulary. I don't think I could have ever gone to a therapist and surrendered to someone knowing more about me than I did. I had to figure it out myself. If your partner doesn't have this "skill set," I don't know how you could introduce that (or if it would even be wise. The more I got into it, the more I applied those new tools to explaining others, not myself).

Seeing a therapist with experience treating narcissists would be the safest choice. (But, even that might threaten your partner. I would have viewed that as something like infidelity. "What will the therapist tell her? Would I agree with it?").

IMO, the key to understanding your partner is that he sees everything through a mirror. Everything is an explanation (validation, contradiction) of himself. It's not like you can have your own issues and exist independently. You exist to make him feel the way he needs to feel. Think of a mirror in the literal sense.

It is also worth contemplating that most people would not put up with such a situation, OP. Also most people would not move to another country to live with someone that they have never dated in person before, nor believe that the persona on the internet is legit true love soul mate whatever. Then you actually get over there and realize that yes you were totally duped and he is not the way he portrayed himself to you online, and your reaction was apparently along the lines of, "Oh well, at least he is not a serial killer," and then you had a baby with him. So while it will probably be therapeutic for you to understand what is wrong with your partner, you should probably also delve as deeply as possible into what is wrong with yourself, because chances are that you and your partner's dysfunctions feed on and into each other.

It hard to know, however, I can tell you a Grown Man doesn't like being treated like a child when he does the dishes whatever, whether he has a PD or not.
Your example sounds like a mother instructing a child. This is not conductive to having passion in the relationship. Or mutual respect.

I can imagine my partner saying "honey, when you do the dishes can you make sure the bottom of the pots are clean". It would either be "do them yourself" or "sod off".
If you partner has Narcisstic traits he is more likely to use passive aggression and pay out later for what he sees as insulting treatment (ie, he won't show how deeply insulted he was at the time).
People in general try harder to please when you give them positive interactions.

So you don't like the way he does something, do it yourself, or find a different way to point out the problem, like give him the dirty cup when you make a coffee for him. Or state, when you are making a cuppa for yourself: "this cup is still got lipstick on the outside, I'm usually careful to wash up properly, never mind, i'll give it another rinse".
or "i really appreciate how you help around the house, lots of men just don't bother".
This builds a feeling in the other person what they are doing is valued. To be honest, I wouldn't even WATCH my partner doing a household job as I'd rather spend the time on the internet that supervise him.

Its quite different than giving feedback, advice on something that is actually difficult, like if i'm replacing the motherboard in a laptop then "maybe it would be a good idea to put the little screws in bags and mark where they came from" is not insulting. Its a great idea.

TinyToad is right, most ppl would not put up with such a situation.

You say that you knew your friend for two years but not very well, not knowing his personality in this time, then he goes to NZ and the two of you start talking a lot online and had this online romance, then you went to NZ to be with him. YOU went there, not the other way around. Something very impulsive on your part here.

"He admitted that he is not in the slightest romantic and that he has a very low sex life."

Yes, you were duped.

But it seems you are also contributing to the dysfunction of your marriage. I don't tell my spouse how to wash the dishes-- I mean, who the hell cares how the job gets done as long as it gets done, huh? And ditto for a lot of other things, After all, the spouse and I are both grown-up adults and don't need each other telling the other how to do a certain chore, ok. But it seems you need to tell your husband how to do something when he doesn't do it YOUR way. If he is indeed N, he's gonna do it HIS way no matter how/ why you want it done another way.

"I start doubting myself now and wonder if I did react badly"

You have these feelings and they're valid. However, you should ask yourself if you have a codependency problem here, something that stems from your background or your past perhaps. Only then are you going to know where to go from here.

easyfromhere wrote:I can tell you a Grown Man doesn't like being treated like a child when he does the dishes whatever, whether he has a PD or not.
Your example sounds like a mother instructing a child. This is not conductive to having passion in the relationship. Or mutual respect.

I wonder if the OP has always been the type to bring up matters such as wiping the outside of glasses, or if it's a behavior that's arisen from being with her partner.

It wouldn't surprise me that the OP learned to be picky from him, and may have consciously (or not) been getting at him, speaking his language. Basically, defending herself from being pushed down, by pulling him down a little with her.

It's all relative, I think. If she's been with him long enough, I could see it becoming like that.

he always has to be right. Even when he's wrong and he knows it, he will come out with so much crap and change the subject so he doesn't have to admit it. But the few times I have finally got him to admit that's he's wrong he twists it onto me again and starts pointing out my flaws

lol "when you are perfect , you get to criticize, till then, shut yer hole"

that will go over like a lead balloon , but everything else does as well
you cannot "fix" this mess, but you can leave and he can figure it out on his own or not
either way, you have peace and a chance to raise your child without that crap

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Try couples therapy. An outside observer might understand better why you clash your heads together. But be prepared to accept if it turns out that both parties are creating problems.

Wow, thanks for all of the replies, really appreciate the time taken.

Truth Too Late - thank you for the in depth response. Definitely a few things in there to think about. I think you're right that I need to see things from his perspective more (I do try to but often he infuriated me so much that it becomes difficult to empathise with him)

Tiny Toad - it isn't that I just thought "well at least he isn't a serial killer, I'm in love with him so it isn't so easy to just say "ok I'm done with this, bye bye". What makes you think that I have some sort of dysfunction? It isn't as though I just thought "oh wow this guy is amazing!" And moved across the world. I researched a hell of a lot before I decided to leave. I found out what was there for ME, apart from him.

Easy from here - the example I have of the dishes was fictitious, but was an example of how pretty much any conversation with him would go. I don't tell him what to do, but if I notice something that is easily rectified so that it doesn't carry on then I don't see a problem with just saying "hey can you do this properly next time".
When you said that people will give better results when spoken to positively - it's funny you should say that because any time I praise him or even just speak positively about something he's done, he doesn't like it, so it's very difficult to know how to get something across to him sometimes.

Realityhere- I didn't go into detail in the original post but it wasn't exactly impulsive. I was looking to move abroad anyway, and after he asked me to come to nz it was almost a year before I actually did it. I researched the country, jobs, economy, hobbies etc I made sure that there was something other than him here for me. I did the same with Canada and the only thing that swung it was that the man I loved was in NZ.
IN the example I wasn't telling him HOW to do, just that he hadn't doen it properly and could he do it properly next time - otherwise it's another thing that I then have to re-do.
What do you mean by a codependency problem?

Truth too late - I wouldn't say I'm a perfectionist or meticulous, I'll quite happily let some things slide, but other things - such as leaving something dirty - then I'd like that done properly. But you are definitely right that it has got worse since we have been together. I suppose it does give me a way of saying "hey, I have an opinion and I'd like for it to not be demeaned or trodden on for once".

U4ia - that is definitely the last resort. If we can sort it out then I'd like to try. I wouldn't stay with him just because we have a child together but whilst I do still love him then there's hope!

Akuma - I think that is definitely the next step

With the praise, yes, it may be not received well unless worded a certain way.
Basically, you need to give a logical reason when you praise, not an emotional one:
"i think you did a great job on painting the bedroom...... BECAUSE .... you show lots of determination once you decide to get a job done".
rather than
"i think you did a great job painting the bedroom, i love you honey".
The former is recognising and acknowledging a personal characteristic ie, "determination".

I've found this works. If you must say 'i love you' it needs a logical reason attached "because you've been very dependable lately".

good luck