Eating habits, other habits

Are there eating habits, such as meal timing or vegetarianism, that are more common in NPD individuals?

For example, do many NPD folks eat snacks and meals at exactly the same time each day? If so, is this a common characteristic to be aware of when interacting with NPD - or might it mean not NPD, but OCD? Are OCD-type behaviors part of the control need of NPD's?

Is being a strict - almost religious - vegetarian, more common?

I searched the site and am not seeing much on this topic.

Being a vegetarian has nothing to do with having a personality disorder.

Lots of people eat meals at the same time.

HR_p wrote:Is being a strict - almost religious - vegetarian, more common?

I can see how being consumed by a hobby/lifestyle could be an overcompensation for lack of identity. But, that doesn't mean someone who's excessively passionate about something is in a category of personality disorder/trait. If they had other behaviors like shutting people out for no apparent reason, then I'd see the passionate hobby/lifestyle as a possible symptom.

Yes, that makes sense to me (seeing the behavior as part of identity creation). It actually makes A LOT of things fall into place. With the idea of identity creation, I don't really need to rule out NPD, then. He's renowned for his vegetarianism - it's a huge part of what people talk about when they talk about him. I realize that vegetarianism is not indicative of one or another specific personality disorder; but I'm trying to find out if any other personality disorder would make more sense (rule out NPD) with this type of control.

As background, for several years, I've worked under (dotted line) someone who fits the criteria listed on this site and others. It took me two years to put the pieces together as possible NPD behaviors, but admittedly, I'm still not sure.

His main behavior challenge is delivery of long-term silent treatment, not responding to emails or meeting requests, and such. For a few years, there were anger outbursts at employees; he was either happy or angry, with no in-between range. There is the occasionally hijacking of visitors who arrive to meet with someone on his sh*t list. There are some possible confidence breaches as well, such as sharing one employee's confidential information with another as if he owned the data, rather than was responsible for protecting it. When he is forced to speak to someone who has been on the silent treatment regime, he speaks in a very succinct and stilted manner. His direct reports use language like, "Well, around here we need to be nice to people because it's a small world and you never know when you are going to need something from them."

In group get-togethers or staff meetings, he will typically share something that someone else said to him as his input to social portions of conversations. He can talk work, but seems to have nothing to contribute EVER from a personal experience or internal feelings standpoint.

But if he likes someone, that person is gold.

I've never seen someone on the blacklist recover. They usually eventually quit.

HR_p wrote:such as sharing one employee's confidential information with another as if he owned the data, rather than was responsible for protecting it.

It sounds like you've done your research. Everything you said could apply to me. What I quoted really struck me because I would have never thought about it the way you said a normal person would. I would have thought of it as compliance with the law, not a ethical duty. (I can't confirm nons would see it your way. It may not be a strong indicator. But, I would have considered employee data as my data without giving it a second thought.).

Regarding his passion, I would go through phases. Whatever I got into would be single-minded and serious. Not a mild balance of hobbies, but one dedicated passion until I got bored. These things were the only thing I'd talk about at work. Whatever my new thing was (it would change in 6-48 months), that would be the extent of what I would share about my personal life.

In my mind, I always felt like I was trying to find my purpose, my destiny. Whenever I exited something it was because it didn't change my life as I thought it would. I'd go into it thinking I'd fit in with a new group of people, I'd be appreciated. In the end I was still not fitting in. I'd have depression and consider how it always turns into that. But, I'd get into something else. Always trying again because... there wasn't much other choice. Be depressed forever? It never occurred to me I got bored because I needed adoration instead of participation. As parallel processes I would impress myself as much as I could, and I'd split new friends when they didn't see me as special.

I could be doing the same thing right now. It occurred to me I might get bored with the forum, that it won't be "me" after awhile. Hopefully I know who "me" is now.

green m+m, you reminded me of a bad habit of my own: jumping ahead without giving background as if everyone had been on this wild ride with me the entire time.

Truth too late, relative to your experiences seeking supply, I thought about the entire identity aspect of habits quite a bit during the night. Thank you. There may be some options in terms of new work-arounds.

As you probably guessed, I'm on his perpetual blacklist. But he kind of seems to like having me as a foe. Maybe this gives him some supply. I have had a few positive results within the last two years, especially in terms of trying methods to trigger his behaviors in front of others, in order to have higher-ups recognize the problem and send him to training. He usually falls for it, and then in a very surprised way realizes what just happened. His anger pops at younger folks have pretty much gotten under control within the last year or so. I did the whole thing some experts recommend on line about making him fear me (details spared - but it involved letting him think I had documentation of an illegal behavior). At one point, his hand actually shook when handing me something. Every few weeks or so, he tosses a jab my way (some type of criticism, exclusion, etc.), but for the most part, the situation is workable. If I have to write document he will be approving, I try whenever possible to let him think someone else wrote it or that I cut/pasted it from elsewhere, so that I don't have to endure five bouts of rejections.

On the positive side, I also try to provide him with new ideas and input that he can exploit with clients and with his boss (I tell them to his golden employees or work into posts on an internal blog), so that he can have them be his ideas and does not need to interact with me, but can get whatever "supply" he can from that.

But I've never done anything on the identity side.

HR_p wrote:Are there eating habits, such as meal timing or vegetarianism, that are more common in NPD individuals?

You're on the right track, but you're approaching from the wrong angle. Google eating disorders and narcissism.

Based on meta-analysis of Cassin & Ranson, 2005, narcissistic personality disorder is diagnosed in 2% to16% of eating disorder patients, with the lower estimate of 2% arising from the more reliable assessment procedures.

Research suggests that bulimic attitudes and behaviors are associated with classic narcissistic personality traits (Brunton, Lacey, and Waller, 2005), and that restrictive eating is associated with the “poor me” form of narcissism in which others are viewed as abusive and the individual must, like a martyr, place the needs of others first (Brunton, Lacey, and Waller, 2005). As such, there is evidence that narcissistic wounding is indeed related to eating disorder development and maintenance. Below we explore the concept of narcissistic wounding in relation to eating disorders

HR_p wrote:For example, do many NPD folks eat snacks and meals at exactly the same time each day?

I do, because I'm comfortable with routine. Discipline is less of a factor in this trait.

HR_p wrote:Is being a strict - almost religious - vegetarian, more common?

This would be in line with orthorexia. I am very strict with what I eat, and have been so since I was 19. My choice is not based on ethical reasons, it's simply vanity. I've noticed that eating disorders such as bulemia, and anorexia, tend to be common in certain types of BPD, and orthorexia, excessive exercise, and "Bigorexia" tend to be more prevalent in certain types of NPD. Probably some OCD in there too.

HR_p wrote:Truth too late, relative to your experiences seeking supply, I thought about the entire identity aspect of habits quite a bit during the night. Thank you. There may be some options in terms of new work-arounds.

In a work environment, I would just be his mirror and get out. The disparity in power in a manager/subordinate role isn't a safe. What you could do as a peer in a personal relationship might look disingenuous and gaslighting in a work setting.

I can see how being a manager could appeal to an N. But, he must be under tremendous pressure. It's hard enough to maintain the image in consensual relationships. It's harder to maintain authority and your image be dependent upon your boss mirroring it to you.

I never wanted to be a manager. My ideal was to be the owner (not depend on someone above me to mirror my authority to me), or as low, self-directed employee I could be (requiring no mirroring beyond what was in my control, trading my accomplishments for freedom, eccentricity, being "uppity" with no actual desire to move up.).

If he wants to be a manager, he might be more calculating and malignant. I'd be careful.

Many persons with NPD have OCD comorbid, resulting from their need to control their environment (I count myself among them). With me, I prefer to eat at around the same times every day. I am most certainly not a vegetarian.

Thank you Esquire, Private Joker and Truth. You've given me some assignments.

Truth, you mentioned earlier a comment about legal aspect v. moral aspect of N behavior. HR is usually seen as the "Enforcer" of laws. (One of the reasons I think HR has such a bad reputation.) So an N would definitely be violating a US law by disclosing certain data, such as facts about a surgery. And, yes, that may be what most nons would focus on when analyzing NPD behavior and these "make the rules/break the rules" traits. But laws are relative, like time reality; they can be changed on a political whim such as Daylight Savings Time, and they can vary by country and custom. Speeding? : ) Morality norms ("Do unto others...") help me determine HR response, and I sometimes prefer to view and respond to behaviors using a morality yardstick rather than a legal yardstick.

In HR, I approach everything from the standpoint of exhibited behaviors and possible modification via response. With an N, it makes more sense to use the moral yardstick (maybe????) as I've read N's are stuck at some pre-K emotional level that would make legal reasoning ineffective in behavior mod.