Covert narcissists and sex

Virginia,

You know what I say to men like this? Tough $#%^!

How about me choosing you and telling you my needs and requirements and wants and sexual desires and you get to be my madonna and whore. They are just controlling weak little men.

This pisses me off.

13cmk wrote:Virginia,

You know what I say to men like this? Tough $#%^!

How about me choosing you and telling you my needs and requirements and wants and sexual desires and you get to be my madonna and whore. They are just controlling weak little men.

This pisses me off.

To be sure, I am not here to defend Narcissism, but to explain it clinically, in a manner that describes it as accurately as possible without assigning value judgments to it one way or the other. I did not choose to be a Narcissist, but I am what I am, which is why I am quite familiar with the plight of the (especially cerebral) Narcissist.

I am just saying this as a feminist.

How about I decide? How about I assign roles? How about I devalue and discard? lol

I am curious what female narcs, do sexually?

reflection wrote:This is triggering for me but I would very much appreciate a reply. "Dirty". Can you please explain that. Preferably in depth. Why does she become "dirty".

Well, my friend, I think that this is what you get when you have an NPD with a Madonna/Whore Complex. The two don't have to go together, but they often do. The NPD is going to have a rigid values system created by his superego that is going to be very judgmental and separate the world into black and white. The Madonna/Whore Complex is going to separate sex from love and put love in the "good" category and sex in the "bad" category. (And of course since Narcs don't really love, what we're talking about here is the appearance of love).

So when you put all of that together, you get a man who views finding a wife, getting married, having kids, and building a family as "good," but who has a hard time inserting sex into that equation, because sex has always been in the "bad" category for him. So his defenses are going to go up when he attempts to be sexual with the woman that he's supposed to "love," his wife, his sweetheart, the mother of his children, etc. But he will find women to use as whores, particularly women who are married, who are beneath him, who it's scandalous for him to be with, and he will be extremely sexual with them, because the "bad" act of sex is okay when he is acting outside of the scope of the perfect life he is trying to build and portray.

The real question is why sex becomes "bad" to the Narcissist in the first place, and again this isn't true of all Narcs, as we have plenty of Narc men on this forum who openly and brazenly use sex for supply. But to many Narc men, sex is bad or dirty probably because of the way society has long made the subject taboo. A Narc man who has spent his life trying to create at least one version of himself that is "perfect" is going to eschew any traits that might garner him disapproval from others, just as he attempted to avoid the disapproval of his mother as a child. But the Narc man will always, always, always have another personality that he hides from the world that he uses to feed his sexual urges, along with the other urges that he avoids publicly for fear of shame.

Thank you. That is a very good explanation.

VirginiaEsquire, Thank you for the explanation, it really does make a lot of sense. Especially with my ex. He was raised with a lot of morals and he also was trying to live up to his friend's lives. Married, kids, treating women with the greatest respect, etc, etc... When it all came falling down, I was completely shocked because it seemed like he wanted all of these things. And quite possibly I think he did, he just couldn't go about it and can't sustain anything for long enough to get there. But the whole Madonna/whore would make sense with his upbringing and what he's trying to accomplish.

After reading your reply, something else came up...The phone conversation with his friend and something else he told me also. He told his friend that he wasn't having sex with me because he felt like a father figure and that he was raising a teenage daughter (me). This was during the devalue stage that he wouldn't have sex with me and when he said this. How would this fit into Madonna/whore complex? He said the whole father figure thing numerous times and the only thing I could think of was he was just coming up with some excuse for not having sex with me and keeping his ego in tact at the same time.