Difference between narcissism and NPD?

NPD isn't mere narcissism.

It's a psychopathic personality and most of the times it's just that bizarre and disordered egocentrism and constant self validation need BPDs also have.

It's just affect and hormones going whacky, people. Narcissists are often the chimp pounding it's chest to appear to be bigger and more threatening.

But NPD is a syndrome - it has more symptoms and behaviors specific to it, not just mere "undeserved and/or exagerated self love and sense of importance". NPDs are usually callous, unempathetic, envious, hypercompetitive, often manipulative and compulsive liars, cheaters, con artists, agressive, hypersexual, cognitive issues, neurological and Axis I stuff is often commorbid, etc.. Mere arrogance is not a disease, people. No matter how big.

The whole host of "wizard of Oz" behaviors indicate, in my opinion, that NPDs are not essencially convinced of their superiority - on the contrary, they are just convinced that they deserve it and get infuriated when they don't receive it!

I would call Narcisistic Personality Disorder something else, like "Compensatory Status Personality Disorder", since most of the times the NPD is just working the smoke and mirrors to appear great, or is constantly seeking external validation.

Very fascinating analysis, twistednerve. May I ask how do you know all this?

angelinbluejeans wrote:Very fascinating analysis, twistednerve. May I ask how do you know all this?

An angel who looks a lot like comes to me in a dream and whispers it in my ear.

Also, worth it to mention how mere lack of responding empathetically does not equal a sense of superiority.

One can be a plain azzzhole for no reason while not losing it's composture, manners and status. This isn't being conceited, this is being a psychopath. The game is not about who's on top and who's below. Psychopathic personalities don't even belong in the social schema, they're damaging and selfish regardless of their preoccupations and ambitions. See them as anomalous cell in the social tissue. Their mechanisms that regulate harmonic social interactions so, that even if one is to be abusive or abused, things work out for the species, is just broken.

Apes (includes us) are quite social, and socialization has purposes and was the result of adaptation. We have a series of routines and rituals by instinct, and a lot of the times these can be quite unpleasant or unfair for one or more of the parties involved. However, with NPD, ASPD, BPD, HPD or whatever you're gonna call these personalities, these are all "out of synch".

The psychopath is a lot like a stranger to the ecosystem, who has no predators and can try to predate all. It's because most cannot identify the psychopath. Just like a shark would completely ignore Spock if he were to swim in the oceans today, if there were food the shark is used to eating next to Spock. Spock is now free to ###$ with the shark and then whoever he wants, because regardless of clearly being different to the ecosystem, nobody can see him for that. And he has no response or balance pre-programmed (through evolution) to respect that ecosystem for his own survival. Oh my, now Spock can be a problem and it will take a while for the Sebastian the Lobster to notice what gives. Not before Ariel is hit by Spock's pon farr cycle, we can all hope.

Cluster B personalities usually do not feel and exhibit a high rate of commorbity with what we clearly (as it can currently get, at least) see as mental illness symptoms. And nowadays they are recognized as a disease, and not just a series of character flaws, as humans are inheritly designed to be social and to flow SOMEWHERE GOOD (despite the bad in the way) with this. But these were the people who served as inspirations for witches in fairy tales. Abnormally damaging personalities with a series of other oddities and unnecessary emotions and demands that, more often than not, damage those around them to a point it makes no sense to.


Mere narcissism getting in the way isn't NPD. That's being a douche. Look for psychopathy and then worry about the flavor you're getting. No matter how arrogant the person is, a healthy human will respond to affection and social status (in a way that makes sense) at some point. If that person seems to be pulling a series of tricks and retorts to keep it's mindset fixed, to the point that it seems unreal, and her douchebaggery is just TOO MUCH, then we might be entering disordered territory.

twistednerve wrote:Apes (includes us) are quite social, and socialization has purposes and was the result of adaptation. We have a series of routines and rituals by instinct, and a lot of the times these can be quite unpleasant or unfair for one or more of the parties involved. However, with NPD, ASPD, BPD, HPD or whatever you're gonna call these personalities, these are all "out of synch".

.................................Cluster B personalities usually do not feel and exhibit a high rate of commorbity with what we clearly (as it can currently get, at least) see as mental illness symptoms. And nowadays they are recognized as a disease, and not just a series of character flaws, as humans are inheritly designed to be social and to flow SOMEWHERE GOOD (despite the bad in the way) with this. But these were the people who served as inspirations for witches in fairy tales. Abnormally damaging personalities with a series of other oddities and unnecessary emotions and demands that, more often than not, damage those around them to a point it makes no sense to.

twistednerve, I've quoted the above paragraphs as these are the ones that relate to people with hpd and bpd, as well as the other cluster Bs. I haven't checked, but if you haven't already, it might be interesting if you posted them in the bpd and hpd forums.

bitty wrote:

twistednerve wrote:Apes (includes us) are quite social, and socialization has purposes and was the result of adaptation. We have a series of routines and rituals by instinct, and a lot of the times these can be quite unpleasant or unfair for one or more of the parties involved. However, with NPD, ASPD, BPD, HPD or whatever you're gonna call these personalities, these are all "out of synch".

.................................Cluster B personalities usually do not feel and exhibit a high rate of commorbity with what we clearly (as it can currently get, at least) see as mental illness symptoms. And nowadays they are recognized as a disease, and not just a series of character flaws, as humans are inheritly designed to be social and to flow SOMEWHERE GOOD (despite the bad in the way) with this. But these were the people who served as inspirations for witches in fairy tales. Abnormally damaging personalities with a series of other oddities and unnecessary emotions and demands that, more often than not, damage those around them to a point it makes no sense to.

twistednerve, I've quoted the above paragraphs as these are the ones that relate to people with hpd and bpd, as well as the other cluster Bs. I haven't checked, but if you haven't already, it might be interesting if you posted them in the bpd and hpd forums.

HPD forums is kinda dead... I'm on mod preview on the BPD forums and nothing ever goes through. lol

ASPD forums is mostly nons.

twistednerve wrote:

bitty wrote:twistednerve, I've quoted the above paragraphs as these are the ones that relate to people with hpd and bpd, as well as the other cluster Bs. I haven't checked, but if you haven't already, it might be interesting if you posted them in the bpd and hpd forums.

HPD forums is kinda dead... I'm on mod preview on the BPD forums and nothing ever goes through. lol

ASPD forums is mostly nons.

So you haven't made similar comments in the hpd forum because it's dead? Why not try, it might enliven that forum.

Also, you think that your comments wouldn't get past the mods on the bpd forum, because nothing does, rather than for any specific reasons? But you posted a couple of times in March; I just checked.

You feel that it's okay to describe cluster b people in the way that you have on the npd forum, but haven't done so on the hpd forum, or attempted to do so on the bpd forum.

You have said that cluster b people are recognised as a disease. There are better places for you to give (or repeat) that sort of opinion than a support forum for self aware narcissists. In the past, I've read some of what you've written about your upbringing; however, this isn't the place to release your feelings in the form of passive aggression.

I'm just saying, I can understand why you don't like some cluster b behaviour, but you don't need to talk about us in the terms that you've used.

I know how I'd be regarded, in the wider world, if people knew of my disorder, I don't feel great about myself, and I'm trying to monitor how I treat people. This is the only place that I can talk freely, to other people who think and feel in similar ways to me. I'm not looking for pity, I only mean, if you want to describe us as you have, find a support forum for people affected by cluster b people.

HPD forum has always been dead. I think it's because the diagnosis is rarely given, I dunno.

ASPD forums has almost no real posters.

BPD forums has me on mod preview, I rarely ever post there and most of the times it doesnt go through.


I'm not being passive agressive, though. If you felt agression towards you, you can say it was directly agressive. I dislike being passive agressive or anything malicious. I wasnt being agressive, either. lol

Honestly, I didnt even realize it was that abrasive to anyone.

Histrionic have social life. While lack of social life is common among clustet A and C, but not B, I dont think narcs here are the ones with social life.

creative_nothing wrote:Histrionic have social life. While lack of social life is common among clustet A and C, but not B, I dont think narcs here are the ones with social life.

Is it the least diagnosed one, though. Most diagnosed HPDs I've seen here, identify more with BPD, so they said.


Bitty, I don't mean to make this a place where you feel attacked. I know narcs rarely talk about their issues and admit it as a disorder. Hell, I kinda don't. lol

But I do imagine it is hard to come out only to be seen as a monster.
Us Cluster Cs or Cluster As like creative_nothing actually go thorugh something similar.

"I'm avoidant!" "....stop being a wuss. You're really nice, I don't want to hurt your feelings and all, but learn how to be fun every once in a while"
"I'm OCPD!" "....you're just annoying, keep it to yourself."
"I'm schizotypal!" "....Weirdo McOddpants finally got something right. Pff, know it all."



PDs have that magical ability to gain no sympathy frmo other people, like schizos, bipolars or depressives would. lol Plus, I think PD'd people get even more hurt when talking about or hearing about their disorders because its not something that gets nullified with medication or is seen as "apart from themselves". It's THEM. Like a homosexual.