What happened to me?

OK. One last thing... On the second record of my psychiatric hospitalisation, it is written that I've been raised by my paternal grandmother.

That's a lie. The person who wrote the record did find it odd, as some conditional wording attests. My grandmother was living on the other side of the country, and it never could have been physically possible that this could have been the case.

Even though it's obviously a pure lie, in fact, she really believed it. The whole theory was that me and my brother were somehow "symbolically" raised by each of the two grandmothers. And that it was the conflict between the two grandmothers (who did not really get along, admittedly) that was "symbolically" being replayed by me and my brother.

In fact, my mother never got along with my paternal grandmother. One obvious reason is that she clearly thought my mother had a twisted mind when it came to raising kids. My paternal grandmother was always keen to mindlessly shove in antibiotics for simple colds, but aside from these kinds of precautionary measures, she never could buy the delirium she perceived in my mother. And the tension between them was so obvious, though occurred in death-like silence.

Long story short: as soon as my grandmother starting having some troubles due to old age, she got hospitalised for Alzheimer. A very early diagnosis.

When I got out of the psych ward, the fourth time, I received unsuspectedly a phone call by my uncle, my father's brother. Essentially, he was frightened because at Christmas, he brought a new woman to Christmas dinner. Some kind of clash occurred between him and my parents. The clash being essentially: "(mod edit ....). We'll get you committed to a psych ward for your own good". The poor uncle fled as fast as his girlfriend as his pacemaker could handle... When he phoned me over, he told me that story, and also importantly, asked me if by any chance I knew where his own mother had been moved to...

That gives you an idea of the whole family mood.

That doesn't look like MBP but frankly delirium. I'm confused.

grandpolly wrote:

Many other "small" things,

gaslighting me and my brother about us being rivals up to a late age,
Interesting my brother and I were driven apart from an early age and she worked very hard on that, setting up one to cause physical punishment on the other again and again,

weekly health checkups with her own daddy doctor,
my grandparents were enwebbed in her world. He was a very bright man, but was trapped playing a role in something quite insane. Looking from the outside an observer would say, how could he, but it happened so slowly like a frog boiling in a pot

repeated ...bone injuries,
have you checked your bone density

repeated cold showers (physical abuse ) for anger management (they loved cold showers in psychiatric institutions in the seventies, must have felt like home, I guess) beaming smile when my brother broke my nose

same but she did not smile, he broke hers very badly a little later

and she had it fixed "better than the original" (as she claimed), endless shopping errands to the drugstore, psychoanalytic psychodrama for anger management between me and my brother, hypnosis therapy, et ceterae, et ceterae, et ceterae...

That's what I meant when I wrote that "childhood was OK". And I still do believe it: it's fairly low intensity compared to what it would have been had we not had this visit of social services after the fourth stomach pumping and the second or third chin bone fracture.
how did you get three chin bone fractures

what did your father grandfather do about a social services visit

Moreover she's more addicted to ...than anyone I've met, popping pills since the 70s at incredibly high dosages.
my mother was prescription, non prescription and alcohol

It's partly the fact that I discovered the extent of that addiction that led to the second psychiatric commitment for alleged violence.
why alleged, how old were you
she tried to have my brother institutionalised at 15 for being uncontrollable, it was the 60s and a parent could do that then

Drama queen for sure, but she really snapped completely when her parents died.
was it her father this was aimed at ?

Also linked, I believe to the tuberculosis she had in childhood. That was a trauma (DRAMA - center of attention) for her.

Another trauma she had was the inability she experience to save one of her patients(mod edit..) in the 70s. Allegedly, the boy was excellent a school and he got a slightly-less-than-excellent mark and committed suicide. So goes the legend, at least.

The only thing I believe I need to rule out for MBP is whether or not she was fully delusional (when lying or dramatising or inducing),
and this is the hard part, as I believe there is part of them that knows the truth but part that thinks it may be fact. In many cases where the mother is poisoning she may well believe that she is only doing it so the doctors will do something as they are continually missing what they see- and remember they are all different, so it is very shades of cream - the cream, the off white, the bone

or not. There were sadistic elements in her behaviour, (sure were) but I still haven't figured out whether they do fit in a psychoanalytic delusion or not.

Thank you Terry. It seems you're the first person I meet that understands the logic of what I've went through, even though it seems to me you may be oversystematising it (or I'm still undersystematising it, which could be some kind of denial). The smart friend of mine who came up with MBP did so with an outlook from the outside. It seems I found out another outlook from the inside.

My mother came up with the theory (psychoanalysis again...) that I was the abuser of my younger brother. So not only could I not retaliate in any way (which never had any impact on the evaluation of who was an abuser), but he could get away with any kind of provocation and later outright violence against me. I did not mind. However, he could not behave the same way at school with his comrades than he was behaving with me. They weren't shying out of the day to day bullying school kids do practice. That did not end well, as he gradually got out of the school system. And I believe that by finding excuses and not behaving pragmatically, that was part of the whole MBP drama. Which will of course forever be a thought that my father will never be able to withstand. That's a main component of why I believe my brother is the main victim, and something I've been seeing through while I still was at home with them.

My mother's father was a medical doctor, but he originally practiced in (mod edit) in a not-so-urban environment. It wasn't inherently crazy that he'd been the doctor of his whole family at that time and place. Due to being displaced out of (mod edit) after 1962, the extended maternal family always seeked to maintain some kind of geographic cohesion, which meant the the family was unusually tightly knit. The weekly health checkups were likely some kind of tradition they maintained from the past. But more importantly, my mother started taking over, when I was small, the office of her father (approximately). We, in France, have a "carnet de santé" where all medical acts on small kids are supposed to be handwritten by caregivers. This one was mostly handwritten by my mother and her father. The mania with which it was kept is staggering.

My grandfather slowly went (mod edit ....). He was gradually cornered by my grandmother as some nonsensical old guy. He wasn't nonsensical, but withdrawn in his late years. My mother, and my father, were very likely taking sides against my grandmother in this game. That goes in your direction: "was it her father this was aimed at ?". It likely partially was. But it really manifested itself on Wednesday female family discussions: my grandmother, my mother and her sister discussing family issues over some meal while the kids they brought were playing around in another room. That's where I perceived that kind of intense and unspoken rivalry which basically boiled down to: "who was raising the kids better than everyone else?". My grandfather's advice wasn't exactly welcome in this discussion, but I feel that my mother wanted his attention, but also wanted him to break free.

He died of the consequences of a cerebrovascular stroke. My grandmother took care of him. Then she died 1 or two years later. At that point, my father made the decision to reverse the decision he made when I was born: when I was born, he half-sacrificed his career to move near my mother's family (i.e. the tightly-knit mentality). Later on, when maternal grandparents were dead, he decided that living near the ocean was a better choice. My mother's family was growing more and more appart, I had left home to study, and my brother was unmanageable at that time. It was time for a change, and my mother had just become fully qualified as a psychiatrist. The attention seeking focus was shifted from "my father + maternal family" to "my father + medicine co-workers + community of parents of high IQ kids". 10 years later I believed the attention focus shifted to "my father + herself and her life story + some MDs for my brother".

I haven't checked my bone density. But I infer that it's quite low: I've been a competitive swimmer at one point in time, and the floating I managed to get by was quite impressive. I've also heard a physician talking about my X-rays radiographies telling me that my bones were rather fragile. I know I've been underfed as her health obsessions led her to quack nutrition behaviours. No fats, everything cooked with vapour, very little meat. Barely 50kg by age 16. That was the main contentious issue with my father's mother as it was so obvious something was wrong with nutrition. The fridge became a battleground for me and my brother when she wasn't around. I withdrew from that conflict, learnt how to ignore hunger, and even nowadays, I sometimes go on for two or three days without eating, as I do not mind hunger (to some extent...)

When I mentioned that she smiled after the nose fracture, in fact she "glowed" after I came out of the doctor's office with the band aid around my nose. That's the only moment I caught her, almost face to face, with the "glow" you mentionned.

Concerning the child protection visit, I only overheard it in the evening from my bedroom. Memories are fuzzy. I believe that my father felt under stress as he was travelling a lot to (mod edit) for his career. I'm under the impression that it played even more in the "we should take more care of our kids" attitude on him. It maybe disciplined my mother. My grandparents, I do not believe that they were aware in any way. I cannot even imagine my mother disclosing it to them during the weekly Wednesday discussion with her mother and sister.

For the three (or two) bone fractures, I do not have many memories. Only one. I remember that it was a party or social event where there were other kids. I stepped on some toy with wheels and the motion drew me to a door that perhaps opened at that moment. It's a very vague memory. These fractures were most likely some kind of neglect.

The second psychiatric commitment occurred when I was likely 20. At that time, I was not really fond of taking trips to my parent's home. Not that I feared medical abuse: I feared my brother being violent, telling lies, and such. Once I even walked from home to the train station the same day I arrived only to be followed the whole way by my brother shouting back at me, even throughout the whole time I was calmly and softspokenly attempting to buy my train ticket at the ticket office. Basically, each time I dropped by my parent's home, I was attacked by my brother or had a surprise visit to the doctor. Dentist, typically. But also to the guy that was cutting off my skin buttons in fear of skin cancer. (The fact that my mother could not get the results and that she felt forced (I was then grown-up) to go through me to ask the results was the first time that I had the opportunity to read that there was nothing wrong with the results... and the insistance I faced from her to disclose these results was baffling).

So, one time, I dropped by. She had moved to a small flat as that was the time my parents were moving "near the ocean". She was alone in that flat, my sister was the only one else in the family in this city and she was away living her own life. So I came head to head with my mother in the almost empty flat. She asked me whether or not I wanted to continue with my ..... school. I replied "no". Tone went up. Then I looked around and noticed the pile of empty medical boxes in a corner of the room (they were likely benzos: Mepronizine/aceprometazine+meprobamate most likely). And I asked "what is this?". She just started to scream, followed by some kind of nervous heavy anxious breathing; she composed a number on her mobile phone; I attempted to get her to speak to me and get her out of this anxiety for a few minutes; then left the flat as things felt weird and unnatural; only to be met outside of by psychiatric staff and ambulance; had my arms locked behind me, and was shipped off to the psychiatric hospital. I read 10 years later on the records I asked for that I was described by my mother/psychiatrist as being violent. I never was. The only negative aspect you could claim against me on that occasion, was that I was indeed smoking pot with friends at the time (as a lot of .... people of my age in early 2000s) and I wanted to do something else in academia (which I did later on).

Well the tuberculosis she had in childhood seemed to be real. The path from trauma to drama is indeed one that I understand and one not to take. One trigger that led me to think more emotionnally about MBP a few years ago than the intellectual cold-hearted self-diagnosis I made was that I indeed found out that in my interactions with psychiatric staff 15 years later on, in order to attempt to retrieve some basic rights that I've been stripped off, I've myself played the drama around my trauma. I'm conscious about it, not proud of it, but I feel like I've no other choice. It's the whole relation to medicine that is now screwed and that I need to get fixed as fast as possible. The ultimate problem is that a diagnosis of schizophrenia physically forces you to play the sick role (i.e. lack of "insight"). That's the brick wall I'm currently banging my head against.

Another thing: in the last psychiatric hospitalisation, something weird happened after the episode where I held back psychiatric staff from intervening on my mother. The psychiatrist who was in charge had shifted my hospitalisation status from "coerced hospitalisation" to "free hospitalisation". Which meant I could leave. However, he asked me whether or not I would be willing to participate in some session where me and my parents would meet up with him to discuss the whole issue at stake. I told him that since I'm now in "free hospitalisation", I will leave the hospital ASAP. I nevertheless added that I would be willing to do so (essentially because I wanted him to do his work properly) under only one condition: that if such a meeting would take place, he would absolutely have to lie to my parents and claim that I was still under a "coerced hospitalisation" status to get the discussion in the direction I wanted (i.e. get them busted).

As you can see, before nailing down the MBP label on the situation, I already had very clearly internalised this notion that they wanted me sick and hospitalised.

I believe that it's an important observation: there are likely more situations where you can hear the patient claiming MBP in his own words and confused wording. It's just not picked up by hospital staff.

grandpolly wrote:Thank you Terry. It seems you're the first person I meet that understands the logic of what I've went through, even though it seems to me you may be oversystematising it (or I'm still undersystematising it, which could be some kind of denial). The smart friend of mine who came up with MBP did so with an outlook from the outside. It seems I found out another outlook from the inside.

I question all who come here. After all this is a psyche forum. inevitably the ones that do tick the boxes usually tick a hell of a lot of them. So far it has been a clear, yes or no. The more I read with you it is a clear yes.

My mother came up with the theory (psychoanalysis again...) that I was the abuser of my younger brother. So not only could I not retaliate in any way (which never had any impact on the evaluation of who was an abuser), but he could get away with any kind of provocation and later outright violence against me. I did not mind. However, he could not behave the same way at school with his comrades than he was behaving with me. They weren't shying out of the day to day bullying school kids do practice. That did not end well, as he gradually got out of the school system. And I believe that by finding excuses and not behaving pragmatically, that was part of the whole MBP drama. Which will of course forever be a thought that my father will never be able to withstand. That's a main component of why I believe my brother is the main victim, and something I've been seeing through while I still was at home with them.

Interesting parallel. My brother was thoroughly screwed up, but she treated us totally different. She went out of her way for him to succeed at school moved him to better private schools where as she went out of her way to make me fail. At school I was near top of the A class while my brother was always in the B class. He was bright but had issues at school that effected his schoolwork. My first term in high school I came 192nd out of 196 and scored bottom of school in multiple subjects. Took her a while but it worked. I would up scraping into UNI then never had a problems after that, wound up a very successful CPA.


My mother's father was a medical doctor, but he originally practiced in (mod edit) in a not-so-urban environment. It wasn't inherently crazy that he'd been the doctor of his whole family at that time and place. Due to being displaced out of (mod edit) after 1962, the extended maternal family always seeked to maintain some kind of geographic cohesion, which meant the the family was unusually tightly knit. The weekly health checkups were likely some kind of tradition they maintained from the past. But more importantly, my mother started taking over, when I was small, the office of her father (approximately). We, in ...., have a "carnet de santé" where all medical acts on small kids are supposed to be handwritten by caregivers. This one was mostly handwritten by my mother and her father. The mania with which it was kept is staggering.

My grandfather slowly (mod edit) . He was gradually cornered by my grandmother as some nonsensical old guy. He wasn't nonsensical, but withdrawn in his late years. My mother, and my father, were very likely taking sides against my grandmother in this game. That goes in your direction: "was it her father this was aimed at ?". It likely partially was. But it really manifested itself on Wednesday female family discussions: my grandmother, my mother and her sister discussing family issues over some meal while the kids they brought were playing around in another room. That's where I perceived that kind of intense and unspoken rivalry which basically boiled down to: "who was raising the kids better than everyone else?". My grandfather's advice wasn't exactly welcome in this discussion, but I feel that my mother wanted his attention, but also wanted him to break free.

He died of the consequences of a cerebrovascular stroke. My grandmother took care of him. Then she died 1 or two years later. At that point, my father made the decision to reverse the decision he made when I was born: when I was born, he half-sacrificed his career to move near my mother's family (i.e. the tightly-knit mentality). Later on, when maternal grandparents were dead, he decided that living near the ocean was a better choice. My mother's family was growing more and more appart, I had left home to study, and my brother was unmanageable at that time. It was time for a change, and my mother had just become fully qualified as a psychiatrist. The attention seeking focus was shifted from "my father + maternal family" to "my father + medicine co-workers + community of parents of high IQ kids". Okay that is interesting

10 years later I believed the attention focus shifted to "my father + herself and her life story + some MDs for my brother".

I haven't checked my bone density. But I infer that it's quite low: I've been a competitive swimmer at one point in time, and the floating I managed to get by was quite impressive. I've also heard a physician talking about my X-rays radiographies telling me that my bones were rather fragile.

I do believe that an over active hypothalamus can have issues on bone density. My brother fractured his lower arm limb 4 times between 8 -12. Don't quote me but do more research

I know I've been underfed as her health obsessions led her to quack nutrition behaviours. No fats, everything cooked with vapour, very little meat. Barely 50kg by age 16.

Was 56kg at 183cms tall at 16. Great way to undermine health. Stress the child and don't feed them. Who needs poison.

That was the main contentious issue with my father's mother as it was so obvious something was wrong with nutrition. The fridge became a battleground for me and my brother when she wasn't around. I withdrew from that conflict, learnt how to ignore hunger, and even nowadays, I sometimes go on for two or three days without eating, as I do not mind hunger (to some extent...)
Not a good sign make nutrition a priority

When I mentioned that she smiled after the nose fracture, in fact she "glowed" after I came out of the doctor's office with the band aid around my nose. That's the only moment I caught her, almost face to face, with the "glow" you mentionned.
she knew her job was done

Concerning the child protection visit, I only overheard it in the evening from my bedroom. Memories are fuzzy. I believe that my father felt under stress as he was travelling a lot to (mod edit) for his career. I'm under the impression that it played even more in the "we should take more care of our kids" attitude on him. It maybe disciplined my mother. My grandparents, I do not believe that they were aware in any way. I cannot even imagine my mother disclosing it to them during the weekly Wednesday discussion with her mother and sister.

For the three (or two) ..bone fractures, I do not have many memories. Only one. I remember that it was a party or social event where there were other kids. I stepped on some toy with wheels and the motion drew me to a door that perhaps opened at that moment. It's a very vague memory. These fractures were most likely some kind of neglect.



Well the tuberculosis she had in childhood seemed to be real.
It is possible that the attention this cuases them sets them up to use it as a fall back later in life. Sick= attention.

The path from trauma to drama is indeed one that I understand and one not to take. One trigger that led me to think more emotionnally about MBP a few years ago than the intellectual cold-hearted self-diagnosis I made was that I indeed found out that in my interactions with psychiatric staff 15 years later on, in order to attempt to retrieve some basic rights that I've been stripped off, I've myself played the drama around my trauma. I'm conscious about it, not proud of it, but I feel like I've no other choice. It's the whole relation to medicine that is now screwed and that I need to get fixed as fast as possible. The ultimate problem is that a diagnosis of schizophrenia physically forces you to play the sick role (i.e. lack of "insight"). That's the brick wall I'm currently banging my head against.

lastly do you think she suffers from delusions of grandeur ??

Delusions of grandeur? That's a tough one. I know she would have liked to contribute more to her vision of medicine and be recognised for that. When I mentioned the community of high IQ kids, which you found "interesting", part of the activism was indeed to get recognised in that community. During the 1990s and early 2000s, the topic gained traction in France. Her (few) publications were undoubtedly tailored at that "market". I have no doubt that she used the fact that me and my brother were now psychiatric patients to enhance the weight of her claims. (mod edit)

To me, that sums it all up. More a longing for grandeur, I believe. But it played well along with my father.

It pretty well qualifies. Overconfidence. An under appreciation of others. The desire to be recognised as someone beyond who they really are.

I am away until Friday and have IT trouble. Will be back on my PC then.

Well, I've attempted to see a psychiatrist to get the issue solved, as, at the time of writing, I was feeling utterly traumatised and could not keep on going with work with the threat of violence I feel from psychiatry.

The interaction has been completely disastrous. I've been to the limit of whatever confidence I could give to medicine. They haven't understood that trying to be nice and caring was NOT the way to go. What I needed was commitments about their own future behaviors. Not therapeutic "alliance under potential threat".

I want euthanasia. I'm too tired to keep on living like this. I won't get it. So I'm seriously considering suicide. I just so hope that I'll have the nerve to carry it through. I've documented myself. I now know that the reflex that makes suffocation "impossible" is due to excess carbon dioxyde, not lack of oxygen... This gives ideas. (Note to moderator: feel free to mod edit).

What should I do? I'd love a way out of this nonsense, doctors to realize that this cannot go on and that a way out should be opened, with guarantees set up black on white. I believe I've tried what I've could this last month, and my imagination has reached its limit: I do not see what can be done. I'm tired of hearing the word "care": it gives me barely under control impulses to break my desk at work with my bare hands.

I'd love advice concerning what is possible and what is not. For now, suicide is possible, and other options simply are not on the table.

A few months have now passed since my last post. I realise I may have exaggerated certain claims in my former posts, but it does not change the overall picture so much.

I have got myself hospitalised with a suicide threat, and I have managed to get advance directives written down and electronically registered. Somehow I feel that this is the only way out, as I'm now demanding that medicine now works for me, and not to satisfy someone else.

Now diagnosed bipolar type 2, and I've been suffering from unexplainable chronic stress ever since I got out. It feels bearable right now, though I fear it may become a permanent condition. I do not know how well I'll managed things in my new job that's starting in one month.

We'll see. I'll now be thinking first and foremost about myself. Making this shift of mind is the main task I have to carry through.

Terry E. wrote:

grandpolly wrote:I agree that there is a difference, and I would absolutely never claim that it is the same as classic MBP.

The Classic MBP is what comes up in the orginal FBI profile - they are all different


In fact, it's difficult to compare, because while the damage being done in isolation is nowhere near the same magnitude as in classic MBP, the effects are quite strong nevertheless.

Actually in the classic case, which still get picked up (because the mothers are stupid) saves the child at an early age. there may be long term health consequences, but they are often saved from much worse damage.

Hi Terry,
I'm new here. My name is Alvin. I have a question because I'm confused of my past.

I don't understand your meaning of the child gets saved. Saved by the MBP mother? Or by the authorities?

Are you saying that in your quote, that the mother who abuses their child ends up quitting that behavior? Due to perhaps, paranoia of getting caught? Because that seems similar to my case.

I have memories of my mother drugging me and talking to me in a very cruel way.

I was 5~9 years old.

And then she would pretend that she's so upset because of my angry and vengeful behavior to others. Her mood would change from being angry and evilish with me to being upset and crying for the hope of others' sympathy.

My father caught her drugging me one day and got really upset. I think he harmed her or threatened to call the police.

I got sent to S. Korea to be with my father because of my failing grades at the age of 10. When I came back, she treated me better- psychologically speaking.

She did restrain me from getting psych meds. I went to jail and I felt suicidal so they prescribed me western medicine and I felt better. I don't know if my mother knew the difference but she didn't get me my meds after leaving jail. By the way, my mother is a chiropractor. She would tell me that pills are bad for your health and you should only take them when needed.

And also I had really bad eczema. It was all over my body and blood and pus would come out if I itched. She would give me herbal drinks for it- but those never, ever worked.

When I got sent to juvenile hall, they gave me some cream and hydrocortisone.

My mother bought me those when I got out, though.

But my freakishly infected eczema would come back every 3 to 4 times a year while being under her care.

This was when I was 14 to 19 years old.

I am now 25.

My mother left the family about 2 years ago without a word.

I have the same question as grandpolly. Was I being abused?

And if my mother was in fact MBP, then wouldn't she want to continue this behavior towards me? Why did she leave? And just who was she getting attention from during the times when I came back from S.Korea? She had no friends, and rarely took me to hospitals at that period of time.

Could she just simply have been a narcissist or psychopath/sociopath?