Questions for MBP survivors

Hi all -

My first time post. I am the oldest of three children and my mother inflicted severe, ongoing, emotional pain on me when I was 14-15. It wasn't medical as many of you describe. It was purely emotional with me. She was in her early 40's and was going through a divorce with my father who lived 2000 miles away. She would complain about him all the time but had no ability to achieve any satisfaction from arguing with him, much less closure of any meaningful kind. As she tried to berate him, he would simply hang up the phone. Then she turned to set in on me.

She took me to counselors to address what she was convinced were my problems. I remember one that we visited about 5 times. After the first visit, I didn't "go back" with the shrink anymore and the doctor simply talked to her. I believe they suspected what was truly going on and that I wasn't germane to the problem at hand. She dumped them because she was upset they weren't treating me - you know, the real problem. Eventually she found someone who agreed with her and was asking me all the time, "what is bothering you about your mother so much?" I told him that the fact that she forces me to go to a counselor, she yells irrational stuff at me, and that I have no idea what I ever did to make her so angry is the root cause of the reason I am upset at her. He never really translated that into why it was a problem or aberrant behavior for me to be upset when I was focused on by her.

Our relationship escalated to her imagining I was possessed by demons. She insisted I go to church during the week and when I refused one time, she locked me out of the house for hours afraid to let me in. She called the police on me another time and again the professionals keyed on her instability. She couldn't understand why they didn't talk to me. But they still left me with her when they left.

Eventually, as I just turned 15 and was a sophomore in high school, she kicked me out of the house, saying, "I can't handle you anymore. You're too bad of a kid..." I don't even remember what she all said, but sending me away from my siblings, my school, my paper route, my friends, etc...was too much to hear. It was very traumatic.

I moved in with my dad, 2000 miles away. I was stripped of any sense of normalcy I had before. My mom knew my dad was an alcoholic, but she was still in love with him. She called me, nightly at first, pumping me for information. All I wanted was to go home...and she would string me along like, "Just tell me where your father is, and who he is with. Maybe, if you're good, you can move back here in a few months." Of course, I was either never good enough, or for some other reason didn't qualify to get back home.

It got a lot worse from there, even though I was already out of the house and thousands of miles away. She couldn't defend her decision to send me away, so I eventually found out she invented stories about me, and told all sorts of seemingly random people. I now understand this was to generate sympathy for her. School administrators, my friend's parents (she had no relationship with them), neighbors, relatives, priests, etc. She told them that I tried to attack her with a knife. Total fabrication. At some point she said I also "probably" molested my sister. My sister told her it wasn't true, but she told my sister, "maybe you just don't remember it." On and on.

Eventually I cut her out of my life. But she called my dad's new wife and told her all these stories. My dad's wife wanted to divorce him, and leveraged the fact that the stories my mom told made her fearful for her daughter's safety to get me sent into the military!! When I was in the military, my mother again obtained my address and sent irrational letters to me and to my commanding officer. I was on an aircraft carrier with 5000 other men. She sent the captain of the ship (who she obviously did not know) a 12 page typed letter detailing everything that was wrong with me and 'thanking him' for making a man out of me.

Needless to say, she has haunted me to what appears to be the best of her ability throughout my life.

I am now in my 40's with a family of my own. I haven't spoken to my mom since a sibling passed away, some 13 years ago or so. My mom learned I had a daughter a year ago (cyber stalking me) and sent me a card saying, "though you have had so many struggles in your life, I am glad to see you turned out OK". Its stuck in my head now...the resentment towards my mother is bubbling back to the surface.

I need an outlet to ask you some questions about your experience surviving life with an MBP perpetrator.

1.) Has anyone ever resolved these issues with a parent? In my perfect world, she would get help for her condition and realize what she's done...and ask for forgiveness. I know its very unlikely, but has anyone had some sort of intervention with counselors to broker this kind of breakthrough or staged an effort to share the embarrassing truth of what the perpetrator did with all the people who heard such unbelievable stories in an effort to use shame to drive the perpetrator to get treatment? Like roll up her network against her?
2.) I know its unfathomable to believe that parents could consciously do this to their children. I am actually adopted, and I honestly believe that is a factor that makes it possible for them to so this as they appear to be missing the instinctive bond that makes it far less likely that a parent would hurt a child in this manner. Does anyone else have this correlation?
3.) I have had relationships with my surviving sibling ruptured because of all the stories she has told him. While everyone thinks she's a bit of a kook, it no doubt colors his opinion of me to this day if subconsciously. I was 15 when I was sent away, he was 12. I never lived with him again. What, if anything, has been successful in rebuilding a relationship with siblings and other relatives after all these years? I think he'd be inclined to believe me as there were ongoing incidents with him and our sister after my departure...so clearly I wasn't the cause. I am not sure if he thought of it that way before.
4.) Has anyone pursued legal or civil action against a perpetrator? She has accused me of what amounts to a crime, several times...which is slander. She has stalked me and demonstrated a desire to interfere in my life if given the chance. I am not the litigious type, but it would be affirming to get some kind of finder of fact to declare something that in some way validates your innocence, and provides a legal conclusion that your parent is a threat. I was thinking of getting a restraining order on her now that she's found me again after so many years. Even though I don't think she's necessarily an imminent threat, winning that battle would be very helpful for me.

By the way, as a way of encouragement, as soon as I cut her off (and my adopted dad who bought into her version of events), my life has been largely great! I am a CEO of an international company, I have a beautiful wife and three great kids. As I am now the same age when she did this to me, I cannot understand how broken she must have been to deliberately inflict such pain on me. It makes me resent her all the more. The last thing I want to do is share my healthy life and success with her. I don't want my kids to see her, but she says in the card she sent after finding my address, "perhaps your new daughter will be the bridge that allows us to rebuild our relationship. Love, Mom." I think you can appreciate the effect this had on me...why I totally reject her as a mother, why I want to safeguard my children. For her to assume she's got that title no matter what her conduct has been, proves she's really twisted.

Any feedback guys? Thanks in advance for your support!!

Hello AZ,

I'm so sorry about what your mother did to you. To be so hurt by the one that is supposed to love you unconditionally...especially when you were adopted... On to your questions :

1) I think as children of the perpetrators we all dream of the perfect world where our abuser will deal with their problems and become healthy people that we can have a normal relationship with. I'm not sure that this ever really happens, but I suppose it's a possibily with years and years of counseling and cooperation and realization on their part. I found a journal of my mother's in my father's things and she seemed to be really remorseful of what she had done to me. She never persued help, though, and as I start my journey of healing from this, I wonder if the remorse is still there. I have no contact with my mother as of now. However, I wonder if someday I may. Always remember that counseling only works when the person in counseling recognizes that they need help and are willing to get it. I really don't think that and intervention would be profitable.

2) I was not adopted and this happened to me. I really don't think that there is a correllation there. Munchers will abuse anything that is in their care, including animals if they don't have a person to attack. Please don't blame it on your adoption, because adoption is a very good thing and there is nothing that you could have said or done in order to have had this happen to you. Munchers are very very sick people.

3) I'm just now rebuilding relationships with my brothers, but they weren't torn apart because of my mother, they were torn apart by my father. Sad to say, my father is still involved in our lives. I suppose the rebuilding of relationships would be similar no matter why they were torn. I had to wait for my brothers to be ready to rebuild a relationship with me. My journey with my younger brother has been in the works for about 4 years now. And we have a pretty good relationship. Once he found out who I actually was and not who my father says I am, then it started really blooming. My older brother and I have only been talking for about a year, now, and that's still really shaky. I guess, all I can say about that is be yourself. Your brother will find out who you are by spending time with you and learning who you actually are. Remember, he was just a child when all of this happened. The mixed feelings that a child gets... having to choose between a parent and their sibling... I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

4) Legal action... when my parents filed for divorce, we had to choose between an abuser, and a Muncher. The judge knew that bother parents were no good. However, no legal action was taken against my mother, the Muncher. There is so little research and knowledge on MSbP that, what I've been told, anyway, that courts don't know what to do with them... how to punish them. I think that you should get a restraining order, and that would be your best bet. Munchers are very manipulative, so they always have people on their side, and they are always able to make you feel like you're the criminal. If she is still believing that you are a criminal and a bad boy, then she will eventually reflect that on to your family and you'll have some big problems then.

The best that I can tell you to do is to work out your problems. Go see a therapist to deal with your anger toward her. You can't push her to work on her problems, but you can cut her off (again) and work toward a healthly mental life. Dig out those skeletons and deal with them. She's only getting the better of you by you still being resentful toward her.

Congratulations on making a life for yourself as a CEO. If you're in AZ (I only think this because of your username) then I am quite jealous. I just got back to PA from AZ, and AZ is soooo beautiful. I would move there in a heartbeat.

I'm here to talk anytime... feel free to pm me if you have more questions or whatever. I hope that I helped.

~Danielle~

Hi AZGunslinger,

I'm so sorry you had to go through that! Congrats for becoming very successful in life and trying so hard to put all the trauma behind you.

To answer your questions...

1) No. She's still adamant that everything she did was justified. I've given up trying to communicate with her about it and do my best to keep peaceful about it.

2) While I'm not adopted, I was immediately whisked away to a hospital 500 miles away and kept there in a children's hospital for 3 months. There was no bonding.

3) It's taken me a long time to repair relationships with a lot of the friends and relatives she managed to poison against me. With time they're starting to see how erratic and irrational she is and they've begun opening a dialogue about it. My father apologized for allowing it to happen and we've developed a good relationship since. I think that my refusal to talk about her grievances against me helped them to realize it was mostly a fabrication on her part.

4) No, but I've given it much thought. She used to try and enmesh herself into my life in such a way that caused people to talk to me through her. I had to be very upfront with people and tell them it was rude to do that.

If you're seriously considering legal action against her, you have to realize that she's used to playing the system. Before making any kind of accusation make sure you have concrete proof in the form of written statements from people she spoke to, documentation on their reasons to send you away (if any), your therapy files, anything else you can think of.

AZGunSlinger wrote:perhaps your new daughter will be the bridge that allows us to rebuild our relationship. Love, Mom." I think you can appreciate the effect this had on me...why I totally reject her as a mother, why I want to safeguard my children.

Oh my gosh - yes - safeguard your children!!!! I've gone through extraordinary lengths to keep my own daughter away from my mom. She's actually cancelled my babysitter right before a surgery and told them that they weren't needed! I'm under no delusion that she wants to make any kind of amends and letting her have access to my child, knowing what she is capable of, would be endangering my daughter. If she did it once and doesn't recognize how wrong it was, she'll likely do it again.

I don't think this was a case of MBP, but you have my sympathy. We only get one mother and to have them turn on us is very traumatic.

Best of luck to you, and whatever you decide to do, know that there is support here.

Thank you so much for the information and feedback. As you know, after going a long time without hearing from her, my mother contacted me. We have since got into an email dialog this past week that has gone back and forth. Hers - laced with religious references and other oddities but more dancing around the strong content of my responses. One jumped out that is probably indicative of some other psychological condition.

I already shared how she tells everyone I tried to stab her with a knife. Well, in one of the emails she says, "I think back to the time one of your customers on your paper route pulled a gun on you. Even though you were 11 or 12 years old, you negotiated with him to get him to pay his bill (and not shoot you). I can imagine you would have handled the situation differently now. That's how I feel about the way I treated you. I did the best I could under the circumstances as your father walked out on us and left me with 3 broken hearted children."

WOW! Ironically, my handle, "AZGunSlinger" is a reference to state of residence, and my hobby, but has nothing to do with how I live my life, and I am fairly sure it has nothing to do with some subliminal trauma from my paper route. So, this, too, is fabricated. I was never approached by a man with a gun refusing to pay his paper subscription fee! Oh my goodness, that is a rich one! I can see it now, "I would like my $0.75 for the weekly paper, sir." "All I have to pay you with is lead, you little punk!"

Also, her characterization of my dad unilaterally causing the divorce and leaving her to deal with 3 'broken hearted children' is also a lopsided memory. I note for the record, the only person commonly exonerated from any shred of responsibility is her. I did the best I could, your dad walked out on us, etc etc. All external influences she was being bombarded with that would have overwhelmed anyone. No real acceptance that her irresponsible and inappropriate responses resulted in causing more trauma...not to mention breaking some hearts! Its fascinating to decompose in a clinical sense, but its really bad because it happened to me!

Anyway, I hope this window into her "thinking" helps others to deal with their respective situations. It seems like she is fixated on a blameless version of her story, sprinkled with over the top details to make them seem like they're so dramatic. Clearly this is to cultivate sympathy from 3rd parties hearing these yarns. I want to leave the door open that maybe its really me to blame after all these years. I do remember my paper route, and indeed some people were hard to collect from. Seems like I was always saying, "I want my two dollars!!"...but never felt someone was going to kill me over it. I was pretty tenacious though...

What do you think about her including that detail? I bet Freud would have a lot to say about this insertion of violence with a weapon into her otherwise mundane memories. What's more about this is she wasn't there. I felt pretty liberated seeing this communication because it shows that her mind/memories is/are indeed fractured, and its not even all about me or what I did. At this point, I think she wants to win me over by showing some empathy for what I went through. She's categorically incapable of showing empathy with what SHE put me through, so let's make up some imaginary 3rd party situation. She can now assume the role of champion and exhibit motherly feelings for me. Surely, I will see that she only has my best interest at heart and she has always been looking out for me.

Only two problems with that. First, after a point, she wasn't looking out for me...she was looking out for herself. Second, her story about this man pulling a gun on me while on my paper route is an extremely delusional 'memory' that she has. I am grateful that both of those "fit the profile" of my memory with her. Why lie (or "misremember") about the man on the paper route? What does she get out of it? I can only speculate that this technique of being so over the top, works to deter questions from others who might be inclined to be skeptics. She clearly can't help herself and turn this behavior off. Her fatal flaw is that she is telling me about a memory that I should also have a similar recollection about...and I don't. In fact, I was the only one there. I am also predisposed to not believe her. I don't believe her audience is usually people personally familiar with what really happened or her cumulative tendencies, so the response to the insertion of a weapon for dramatic effect ranges from "unnoticed" to "effective".

Its definitely getting interesting. I am expecting her to send an email soon, and I almost can't wait to see what direction this saga goes in. Definitely tempering expectations as to what the outcome might be. I would settle for knowing she had to read a note featuring me condemning her actions from back then (once again). Anything up from there is even more positive. I won't let anything negative occur.

Thanks for the support, you guys are great!

You're dancing in dangerous territory, there... It makes me nervous that you are...encouraging her communication.

While it's fun to analyze, what's not fun is the emotions that go with our talking to our abusers. You may not realize it not, but I'm sure that under the surface somewhere your emotions and memories are stirring. They are sooo very dangerous to play around with!

This still may be MSbP... I know that there are two types, one purely psychological. I've not looked into that one, though. Regardless... you were treated like crap by the one who is supposed to love you.

How are things going with your siblings? It's a tough road.

Please be careful... and keep us updated.

ImACamp is right. You're setting yourself up for hurt by opening up the doors for your mother. You might be in an analytical state of mind right now and find it amusing, but when the negative emotions creep in and you see what she's written, it's going to be raw and emotional.

Through the conversations I've endured with my mother off and on for years, there is one constant: she will not admit to having done anything wrong because she truly believes all those fabrications were truth and thus acted in my best interest! She will believe you are the liar and proceed to further convince everyone else of the same.

AZGunSlinger wrote:I want to leave the door open that maybe its really me to blame after all these years.

Close that door. The pain isn't worth having it opened again, especially when you know she was abusive. No child deserves the pain and suffering you went through at her hands.

@ LadySwan - I mistyped. I meant to say I *don't* want to leave that door open that its me after all these years. I know it isn't. I was a very immature, young boy, who was definitely not responsible for anything my mom said I did. I do replay some of those incidents when something happens to trigger my memory. (That is very infrequent as the years have piled up in the gap since the actual incident).

I didn't tell you guys also...I found my birth mom and dad when I was 25. Turns out, after they gave me up when my mom was 18...they got married a few years later. They had two more kids, so when I found them, I found 2 full blood siblings. Relationship with "full blood" siblings/birth siblings was automatically great and I found some kind of strange acceptance with them right off the bat. If you ever question nature vs nurture - don't bet against nature! Raise apart from my siblings, I have the same sense of humor, mannerisms, hobbies, etc. It is an amazing experiment. I would never wish anyone to be a subject in the experiment, but WOW!

My adopted parents - well my dad, at the time - went apoplectic with jealousy and anger towards me. "Why do you need to find your parents? You already have parents." With that relationship, I think it helped me put my mom's transgressions into perspective. It does make the definition of "parent" and especially "mom" somewhat dynamic in my head.

As I am married now, I have my wife's mom, my adopted mom, my birth mom, and two step moms - there are a lot contenders for the role of "mom" for me, more than most people, I bet. So I do have a fairly well developed sense of self, and a very small compartment available for any "mother" figure to occupy. Since that compartment is sub-divided 5 ways across the historical mother figures, the room for any one is even smaller. I can honestly say I don't much care what any of them thinks...about me, about life, or anything. If they can be positive influence in my life - they are welcome. They step outside that boundary, and the door closes. But, I am generally willing to let them back in if they correct their behavior. Cold? Hyper-rational? Maybe. Maybe its a defense mechanism after the MBP incidents piled up...but I am very resistant to letting a woman in an alleged maternal role have influence over how I feel about myself ever again. That's just something I will never let happen.

I have been trolling some of your stories. What an insidious situation this is to live through. No one will believe you (at first) yet you are accused of being ill or having something wrong with you that you do not have. Worse, people treat you as if that its absolutely fact that you have what your adult caretaker says you have. It might be better if they just physically beat you in some ways. The clearly wrong actions would be somewhat easier to take. Here they make you the pawn on their chessboard of self-serving convenience. You will move in the direction they tell you as it makes them happy. What is important to you will never be the agenda, and ultimately your well being will be sacrificed for their private entertainment, essentially. Makes me mad that it has to happen to anyone. But I am glad I got out when I did. I am glad I have a good head on my shoulders and I can put all those things she said about me in perspective. I know they aren't true, and I can successfully cut her out. I can only imagine the torment someone must feel living with their actively MBP mother or continuing to have a relationship with that abuser. Just horrific!

Imacamp - Siblings...similar to "mothers" I got a bunch!

But the ones I grew up with, and have her in common. All three of us were adopted. Two was the limit back then, and if you wanted another, had to be mixed race or handicapped. My parents took on a handicapped girl who was "developmentally challenged". She had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome they later learned. Tested at a mentally retarded level sometimes. But she would be considered high functioning.

My MBP mother latched on to her after I left. She would have been around 10 yrs old when I "moved out". (was thrown out by my mother). My sister was always rumored to have problems, but now, looking back, it was my mother magnifying everything. I didn't live with my sister since she was 10, but as she went through her teenage years, all I heard were bad stories. My mom actually threw her out of the house, too. She was convinced my sister was epileptic, a klepto-maniac, etc. My sister moved to Arizona as well...until one day my mom showed up at my dad's house and took my sister "back". Again, I heard rumors of sexual misconduct, but it wasn't about me. I didn't live there, and I didn't speak to my mother, so I didn't get involved. But there again, my mother was happiest when she was "rescuing" someone or making some major adult decision. Even if the situation was "steady as she goes" - my mother couldn't let it go. She would have to disrupt it.

My sister had 2 kids, and was married. She actually died when she was 25. I don't suspect my mother in any way, other than my sister was mentally abused by her as well. When my sister died, my wife sang the Barney theme song - "I love you, you love me" while holding her daughter...just like my sister sang to her. Not a dry eye in the house.

My brother is a smart man, he is accomplished, but he is also very distant. Doesn't have relationships for long, goes from woman to woman and doesn't like commitment. He is also adopted, but he says he doesn't 'need" to find his parents, he knows where they are. Whatever. Its a strange dynamic in my family. I haven't spoken to him in 3 years at least. He was so young when my mom "broke us up", I think he believes her...if only subconsciously. I understand he was also tossed out of the house when he was in high school. Again, I wasn't there, and I wasn't really in communication, so I don't know why.

I have those two siblings (or had) I grew up with until I was 15. Then I had 3 other step-siblings I lived with. Then I had 2 other step-siblings when my dad remarried. Then I found my birth family, picking up 2 full blood and 1 half blood siblings. So, if you're scoring at home, that's 10 siblings via a convoluted route. I really only feel close to my full blood siblings today, perhaps surprisingly...maybe not.

Does that give you some insight into my mental picture? I am not really fixated on needing any one relationship to work really well. Just SOME relationships working OK is good enough for me to get by. I can imagine how empty one could feel if their primary relationship - maternal, sibling, or otherwise - wasn't working despite many efforts. Not really my experience at this point.

Update: So I demanded my mother apologize for past transgressions. She said she was 'reviewing my emails'. Then she started sending like weird lullaby youtube videos, "thought your daughter might like this".

I replied and said, I am not looking at these videos or anything else you send. You know what you need to do, until you apologize and own up to the horrible things you have done in the past, there can be no relationship in the future. Your unwelcome communications need to stop, and if you don't voluntarily stop them, I will take action to make sure they cease.

She replied with one word: "Bye."

I truly think she is mentally ill, and cannot be objective to see the err of her ways. She is defensive and will not come off those claims she has made in the past because its part of her identity. If she isn't the victim, or an altruistic participant overwhelmed by everyone else letting her down...then she has nothing left in terms of a self image.

I will wait another 10 years for her to reach out again. She is 73 now, and I am sure it will only seem more intractable and hopeless for her to try to restore anything later.

Thanks for all the support and suggestions.

I'm so sorry that it didn't work out for you the way that you had hoped and that you ended up getting hurt in the end. Please remember that a forced apology really no apology at all. Also that sorry doesn't fix anything.