Ashamed of being Bisexual

I hope I can be of help. Sexuality is not my area of expertise, but shame is. I am interested in shame and all of it's variants.

All I can say is study shame. Study toxic shame versus healthy constructive shame. Toxic shame is when we view the self as flawed or defective. That is not good. It is good to feel the shame though, to fully feel what's down there and deep. It's never good (or rarely good in the long run at least) to repress and keep in the dark those 'negative' feelings and affects for fear of what they show.

Toxic shame is a soil for many disorders and also for indirect communication styles that lead to crazy making and interpersonal frustrations. When one deals with shame and toxic shame, one does EVERYONE else a favor in the world.

There's a video by John Bradshaw about healing the shame that binds you. There are also some other good books. This is a cinderella emotion, little understood.

I've noticed that many homosexuals have higher than usual shame, even among minority groups. Why is this? What is the cause? I've noticed this may even be true among tolerant cultures. I'd never want to shame anybody. Nobody can shame us in life quite like our parents. We can be shamed so easily as children or as dependents, before our self-concept is formed. We can be shamed in relationships when people don't mirror or reflect back to us our self-worth- don't give us the praise we need or desire or have earned, or the recognition, or acceptance, trust or validation. I'm of the opinion that too much today is called 'toxic co-dependency' when these things, these needs are natural and good. In a sense, people who are talking about co-dependency and getting over it are making those who have needs for approval, etc, to feel ashamed or defective or immature for having them. There is such a thing but I'm concerned about misdiagnoses.

I am purely heterosexual but I am in no way ashamed to bond with men or hug them when close or to share and open up to them and joke around with them. I think this is healthy, natural, normal and necessary. Again I'm not talking about your sexuality issues themselves because I know so little about it. But I would say dig deep when it comes to shame. I did so in myself and thought it was only a little thing. Turns out it goes deeper and deeper and the end is not yet even in sight. I think shame is even a national epidemic.

Constructive shame is always or almost always self-generated, from one's own inner conscience (not one's internalized introject or internalized parental voice). It is generally slow in coming and takes time, such that other people might get impatient. It might be called humility or better yet contrition. That is a good thing, but it's nobody's right to shame another. Except one possible exception- in cohesive communities where the group well being is at stake where to some extent one's private business does impact on others. But even then the shaming should be minimized as much as possible, and definitely in no sadistic way. I think the shame in our culture, derived from deep underlying fear of death by abandonment, ostracism, rejection, I think this shame is what leads to so much sadism and masochism.

These are all my theories, but they are just that. I hope you can figure out how to lead the life you want to lead, have lasting peace of mind, harmony and passion in human relations, a satisfying sexuality, health in old age, and much much more.

MMonroe wrote:

So you are "slightly" attracted to beautiful females occasionally, join the club.

I'm not "slightly" attracted. I haven't had a crush on a male in about... god, I don't even know how many years. Also, to be blunt myself, I can only masturbate to fantasies of women or lesbian porn. When I think of guys, I simply don't get any arousal. I did find your post quite blunt & unempathetic, but then again, I am aware that you are an antisocial. I shouldn't expect that. Replying as such to a Borderline that gets suicidal when someone is blunt with her, I'm gonna ask you politely not to respond to my threads.

Only hear what you want to hear, your wish is granted.

jasmin wrote:I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of if you're not hurting anyone.

I'm not sure because I don't experience shame but I don't think "others" who do should be so sure either. Guilt, shame, embarrassment and the seem like useful tools to me. Maybe they would be uncomfortable to experience but maybe they are a blessing in disguise. Because all those things are probably connected to having a conscience. Are you not supposed to let your conscience be your guide? Now I know you said you don't have to feel ashamed if you are not hurting anyone. I don't exactly agree. If you are raped and feel ashamed, you don't need to. This shame comes from stigma society infringes upon you. If you are ashamed for thoughts, desires or actions in secret, would that logically stem from a internal type warming system or governor that it maybe morally wrong?

Well, Jasmine I'm off back to our sandbox. Everybody outside of it seems to only care to gather empathy/sympathy and the sort. I have none to give. *whimper*

Mr. No One wrote:]
Only hear what you want to hear, your wish is granted.

Can you sum up the point you were trying to make in one or two sentences?

I'm sorry but some Borderlines are not very thick-skinned. You need to try to break things a little easier to me. We may be both Cluster B's, but we are not the same.

Hmm,

I have a problem with that argument.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the shame felt by feeling attracted to the same sex should be listened to as it is part of your conscience telling you that it is wrong.

Ok, so what if you have never felt ashamed of it (and I am not saying I haven't)? Applying that rule means it would be morally right for those who never felt shame about it and wrong for those who have.

That can't be right though either because then anyone who didn't feel shame about an action could argue that they were morally right in doing it- I am now thinking about those rapists and child abusers you mention.

You got one thing right, the shame felt by a rape victim is due to societies views and portral of rape. It's the same for those of us who have felt ashamed because of our sexuality. If no one ever told me that homosexuality was wrong I would never have had a problem with it. Flip side, if I grew up in a society where heterosexuality was wrong I would have probably had the same issues had I been straight.

Homophobia is about hatred and control. Just like racism, sexism or anything else discriminatory you can think of. It has nothing to do with moral rights and wrongs.

With love and acceptance

Addy

Addy wrote:Hmm,

I have a problem with that argument.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that the shame felt by feeling attracted to the same sex should be listened to as it is part of your conscience telling you that it is wrong.

Ok, so what if you have never felt ashamed of it (and I am not saying I haven't)? Applying that rule means it would be morally right for those who never felt shame about it and wrong for those who have.

That can't be right though either because then anyone who didn't feel shame about an action could argue that they were morally right in doing it- I am now thinking about those rapists and child abusers you mention.

You got one thing right, the shame felt by a rape victim is due to societies views and portral of rape. It's the same for those of us who have felt ashamed because of our sexuality. If no one ever told me that homosexuality was wrong I would never have had a problem with it. Flip side, if I grew up in a society where heterosexuality was wrong I would have probably had the same issues had I been straight.

Homophobia is about hatred and control. Just like racism, sexism or anything else discriminatory you can think of. It has nothing to do with moral rights and wrongs.

With love and acceptance

Addy

Your logic is not completely sound. I would like to agree with everything you just said but alas I cannot. For even though I agree society may impose shame on rape victims and homosexuals alike there is a glaring difference. Homosexuals chose their path. Rape victims generally do not. Therefore their internal mechanisms for shame do not come from the same place.

Homophobia by your logic was construed by society for people to feel shame because they do not accept the homosexual lifestyle. Tolerance. What is it really?

EDIT: My apology, Mz Monroe. I cannot leave just yet.

That is where you and I will have to disagree. I don't know a single gay person who would tell you they chose their sexuality. Most will tell you they were "born this way". Just like being born with brown or blonde hair, black or white skin. We don't judge on that any more. So why should we continue with this?

I know I didn't choose my sexuality, I was made with it.

I am not advocating tolerance. I am advocating acceptance.

Addy

Just throwing in my two cents again, not saying much of anything that hasn't already been said. Miss Monroe - dear, you have nothing to be ashamed of. I promise you this.
I can also assure Mr No One that sexuality is not a choice. Could a person consciously choose to be with the same sex?? Yes, of course. And I'm certain that person would be miserable, uncomfortable, and everything in between. Did I actively choose to be attracted to women? No. Frankly, being bisexual can make things rather difficult sometimes. Like, being madly in love with my male fiance, but desperately craving intimacy with a woman. Not an easy thing to deal with.

And yes, sometimes people simply do need empathy. It works wonders. If you're not capable of showing that, I understand, but making people feel worse isn't the best route to take.

Addy wrote:That is where you and I will have to disagree. I don't know a single gay person who would tell you they chose their sexuality. Most will tell you they were "born this way". Just like being born with brown or blonde hair, black or white skin. We don't judge on that any more. So why should we continue with this?

I know I didn't choose my sexuality, I was made with it.

I am not advocating tolerance. I am advocating acceptance.

Addy

Of course they wouldn't. They are not allowed to. But I live in a city where there is a big homosexual population. They are accepted in everyday life and hold various important elected posts in the city. I have had this conversation about 1000 times, the majority usually come out with the truth. They chose the lifestyle. In fact, one homosexual gentleman told me that the reason so many young people struggle with their sexuality today is the dynamics of the discussion. So many people have chose the "born this way" argument, (without any real objective scientific basis) it has perhaps permeated into a virus of disinformation that cannot be controlled because of the parameters of political correctness. He said that even if some homosexuals were born that way, there will be some that are not. So would some be protected from discrimination and others not? He said that the indoctrination of children of "the born this way" theory are being robbed of their choice. Because the first time, they look at Bobby's tight butt to long and get aroused they start thinking theyre either bi or gay, when in fact they are just being human and horny. LolPlus, there is the whole can of worms of why homosexuals can claim"born this way" genetics but not other groups like pedophiles and sociopaths. There are still held responsible but the homosexual is not. Also, there have been the homosexuals who goes completely straight. Did they make the mistake of a life time. I know two people I can say that after speaking with me they thought about it and afterward actually thanked me for talking to them. They no longer practice homosexuality. They were bi-sexual.

Mr. No One, just because society doesn't accept claims that other things like paraphilias and psycho/sociopathy are something a person is born with doesn't mean that people aren't born that way. Therefore I don't think that's a valid argument against the "born this way" notion of homosexuality / bisexuality. Personally I think a person is born with genetic factors that make these things possible, and environment and experience simply exacerbate them.

I don't think you have any reason to feel ashamed about your sexuality, MMonroe, although I know shame isn't something you can just brush off when you know you don't need to feel it - shame is sticky, illogical, and can be crippling. But I do hope you find self-acceptance and happiness. (: