Got Sin?

whero wrote:Dbx: You can't disprove a higher power and you still can't disprove any old beliefs of sun gods or moon gods.

Yes I can. Because the legends say that the Gods will strike me down if I call them out right? Well time for a "scientific experiment".

Gods of ye olde past, go ###$ yourselves.

And now we wait for confirmation of what I already know is true.

*spolier alert* if something can't be measured it doesnt exist.

YarlSoutan wrote:

whero wrote:Dbx: You can't disprove a higher power and you still can't disprove any old beliefs of sun gods or moon gods.

Yes I can. Because the legends say that the Gods will strike me down if I call them out right? Well time for a "scientific experiment".

Gods of ye olde past, go ###$ yourselves.

And now we wait for confirmation of what I already know is true.

*spolier alert* if something can't be measured it doesnt exist.

You should work for scientology. You can't prove a chemical unbalance either.

whero wrote:Dbx: You can't disprove a higher power and you still can't disprove any old beliefs of sun gods or moon gods.

that's why I'm agnostic and do not try to prove or disprove anything. But since science is the only way of proving or disproving things, I'm more inclined in believing it that religion. Religion never tries to empirically prove its claims and does not offer any tests.

I can disprove sun or moon gods. It's called gravity and it can actually be tested over and over again. There were no gods moving the sun, moon and planets around.

dbx wrote:

whero wrote:Dbx: You can't disprove a higher power and you still can't disprove any old beliefs of sun gods or moon gods.

that's why I'm agnostic and do not try to prove or disprove anything. But since science is the only way of proving or disproving things, I'm more inclined in believing it that religion. Religion never tries to empirically prove its claims and does not offer any tests.

I can disprove sun or moon gods. It's called gravity and it can actually be tested over and over again. There were no gods moving the sun, moon and planets around.

Yeah but what initiated the whole thing? And don't say the big bang because there has to be a cause or else there is no effect. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.

whero wrote:

dbx wrote:

whero wrote:Dbx: You can't disprove a higher power and you still can't disprove any old beliefs of sun gods or moon gods.

that's why I'm agnostic and do not try to prove or disprove anything. But since science is the only way of proving or disproving things, I'm more inclined in believing it that religion. Religion never tries to empirically prove its claims and does not offer any tests.

I can disprove sun or moon gods. It's called gravity and it can actually be tested over and over again. There were no gods moving the sun, moon and planets around.

Yeah but what initiated the whole thing? And don't say the big bang because there has to be a cause or else there is no effect. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.

Science is still working on that, unlike religion which offers a story without verifying it and wants you blindly to believe in. As I said earlier, at present day, science cannot answer all questions BUT the difference is that it's working and not sticking to a story and never tries to prove or disprove it. Theories in science constantly get proved or disproved, unlike religion where it follows one "theory" for as long as man can remember and as said, doesn't offer a way of proving it.

There is great evidence that the big bang theory may be false and the universe may be cyclic in nature but so far science has not come to a definite conclusion as it needs more data BUT is slowly working on that. Further, at the quantum level the universe shows a striking resemblance to a hologram and the very nature of the vacuum shows that particles can pop up from absolutely nowhere without any cause (this is known as quantum fluctuation where virtual particles constantly pop up and disappear - they are called virtual because they "live" for extremely short periods of time and disappear). Also, the cause and effect thing may be valid everywhere inside our universe, but there is still no evidence that there must be a cause for the beginning of the universe and that the cause and effect thing is responsible for the it.

And just because you believe in something like religion does, doesn't mean it's there or that your believe will make it to appear.

Also, I mentioned at the beginning that I'm an agnostic atheist, but in reality I swing more to the agnostic naturalistic pantheism side. I think that the universe, nature and everything inside it are actually elements of God itself and all combined make God. Life is like blood cells which although are part of a greater concept, do not realize it and do not know it, to give a simple analogy. Unlike blood cells, specific type of life (like humans) have the capacity of researching and finding out if this is true or not. I don't think there is someone outside and that one is as pictured by traditional religion. But since it's for me extremely difficult to prove that, I am still unsure, hence the agnostic part.... Einstein, Lee Smolin and Carl Segan are naturalistic pantheists too. This doesn't mean that they are right and that's why many of them are agnostics too.

Oh wow, huge walls of text. Too long; didn't read (despite how interested I am in this kind of thing).

As for me, I'm atheist and always have been, even as a small child. There's an entire story to this, but I'll save everyone from reading another long post.

I know this topic was talking about sin originally, right?
I'll just say very briefly that I see religion as a way of controlling people, and that the concept of "sinning" is a way of frightening people into being good. Because, honestly, even nowadays a vast amount of people are not able to govern themselves based on common morals.

All it comes down to is that we live in a crapsack world.

And so ends my cynical statement.

ItaLuv wrote::shock: Oh wow, huge walls of text. Too long; didn't read (despite how interested I am in this kind of thing).

As for me, I'm atheist and always have been, even as a small child. There's an entire story to this, but I'll save everyone from reading another long post.

I know this topic was talking about sin originally, right?
I'll just say very briefly that I see religion as a way of controlling people, and that the concept of "sinning" is a way of frightening people into being good. Because, honestly, even nowadays a vast amount of people are not able to govern themselves based on common morals.

All it comes down to is that we live in a crapsack world.

And so ends my cynical statement.

Exactly how I see traditional religion. Not only a form of control, but also offers to the not-so-critical-and-scientific person who doesn't question, things like hope, being part of something greater and purpose in life by picturing that God is great, helps you and is always there for you, you just have to believe in it without any empirical evidence. Due to how the mind works, a lot of people will find great pleasure and strength in believing that there is something. People by nature despair if they find out that no one gives a $#%^, no one's there and it doesn't matter what happens in their life because in the end it's not important at all. Such people get from believing in a God as pictured by religion the strength, meaning, hope or whatever in life. It is a psychological thing, as I said earlier.

dbx wrote: People by nature despair if they find out that no one gives a $#%^, no one's there and it doesn't matter what happens in their life because in the end it's not important at all.

Life summed up in a single sentence.

dbx wrote:Exactly how I see traditional religion. Not only a form of control, but also offers to the not-so-critical-and-scientific person who doesn't question, things like hope, being part of something greater and purpose in life by picturing that God is great, helps you and is always there for you, you just have to believe in it without any empirical evidence. Due to how the mind works, a lot of people will find great pleasure and strength in believing that there is something. People by nature despair if they find out that no one gives a $#%^, no one's there and it doesn't matter what happens in their life because in the end it's not important at all. Such people get from believing in a God as pictured by religion the strength, meaning, hope or whatever in life. It is a psychological thing, as I said earlier.

Cheers. You've got a good head on your shoulders, my friend.

I think a lot of it has to do with inner strength, too. People who just haven't been through a hard time don't have it, and so they rely on "God" to give it to them. It's sad, really.

ItaLuv wrote:

dbx wrote:Exactly how I see traditional religion. Not only a form of control, but also offers to the not-so-critical-and-scientific person who doesn't question, things like hope, being part of something greater and purpose in life by picturing that God is great, helps you and is always there for you, you just have to believe in it without any empirical evidence. Due to how the mind works, a lot of people will find great pleasure and strength in believing that there is something. People by nature despair if they find out that no one gives a $#%^, no one's there and it doesn't matter what happens in their life because in the end it's not important at all. Such people get from believing in a God as pictured by religion the strength, meaning, hope or whatever in life. It is a psychological thing, as I said earlier.

Cheers. You've got a good head on your shoulders, my friend.

I think a lot of it has to do with inner strength, too. People who just haven't been through a hard time don't have it, and so they rely on "God" to give it to them. It's sad, really.

Your sad.