millon is an idiot

well is this against forum rule to criticize an author?
but anyway

his classificaiton of narcs and analysis of them are totally wrong
as sam vaknin pointed out(he said millon is wrong about that there are narcs who dont have inferiority issue at all and i agree)

also millon said hpds don:t siimply `feel` empty but they are just empty
wtf was he ever inside a hpds mind or something or what
what is he he says an individual is empty
that is totall bulllshit i demand more explanation from him if why he thinks hpds are empty
also all of classification of pds in millons book seem stupid

he classifies hpds into various types but that is weird too
anyway

I kinda don't even believe in personality disorders anymore.

All this over-classification is B.S

I think it just gives people complexes.

Yeah, we have similar "symptoms". That's because we all read the same damn book and have taken on this identity. My "symptoms" didn't bother me before.

Now I have a problem? WTF

I'm just going to live my life now.

exquisitecorpse wrote:...My "symptoms" didn't bother me before. ...

To make a point by way of extreme -

Not so long in our society someone who committed acts of say, random torture, might have been thought of as being possessed by demons. Such a person might have not felt bad at all, even enjoyed torturing, but the lack of being bothered doesn't mean that the rest of society feels there is nothing wrong. In the last century such a person might be labeled a psychopath, a sociopath, as having anti-social personality disorder, and in the future, who knows what labels.

In the end though labels only matter so much. That the person who others label as having x, y, z problem is how others really feel. The person others label as having a problem may not feel anything is wrong with them, but then, is that so surprising? You know if we were all wolves, aggressively fighting over scraps of food might be considered the norm, and polite sharing might get us labeled as flawed. So to a degree what is normal is relative, still...

If some guy walked up to you and said "I want to torture and kill you, keeping in mind I don't feel there is anything wrong with me", my hunch is you'd disagree. An extreme, but the point is it's often not the 'disordered' person who feels the negative effects of their thinking so much as it is others.

With HPD the issues are murkier. Take the context of someone single, maybe younger, is there anything wrong with going out, being the life of the party, being flirtatious, being charming, etc? Not really. Most of us wouldn't give it a second thought. Then again, extreme example, but, we probably wouldn't give it much thought if a soldier dressed up in combat gear in the middle of a war and started shooting strangers. In that context, it's normal. If he did the same thing during peace time and shot 'friends' though???

Personality disorders are about extremes of behavior, that affect others negatively (they don't necessarily cause the disordered any personal harm or discomfort), that are problematic because of their frequency, severity, and occur in contexts that cause others discomfort or harm.

Wow X, I wonder how many HPD’s you will trigger with that post.
You triggered me with your solider extreme example. It’s NOT normal to ‘dress up’ in combat gear in the middle of a war and start shooting strangers. In fact that is an example of an extreme breakdown in order and discipline and is as far from normal as you can get ‘in the middle of a war’.
Really, you could have conveyed your meaning without triggering using only the very last sentence of your post.

yYyYy, I’m sorry to derail your thread.
I believe you are correct surely when it comes to HPD’s “siimply `feel` empty but they are just empty”. There is no doubt that we feel a lot and at a much greater intensity than the rest of the world we live in so obviously he is just plucking random crap out of thin air because he simply is an ill researched hack.

Exquisite, I’m with you. Just living my life, enjoying it. I seldom have any troubles with my ‘symptoms’ and if someone else does but does not say anything to me it’s not my problem now is it? After all, the first part of solving a problem is identifying it and if it’s never identified to me I never know there is a problem.

OtherHPD -

You are correct. Here is truth though -

It ties in with black and white thinking. The extremes make it clear what clearly hurts others, and we all react strongly. But there are lots of ways to grey-scale hurt others. NONs weigh accordingly. Black and white thinkers can often shut that hurt off by flipping it off, and categorizing it as Okay. That doesn't change the reality, that others end up really hurt in these relationships, as written by so many here. The hurt is not equivalent to the worst damage done by those with say ASPD, but the hurt is real nonetheless.

p.s. There is a great line in "Dexter" the tv series as he is killing one of his victims, along the lines of "It's not about what I'm doing to you, it's about what I'm doing for me". It emphasizes a real truth. The person doing the hurting is often blissfully unaware of the hurt others are feeling, so is not the ultimate measure of good/bad, right/wrong. It takes a lot of strength to factors in others feelings, and not everyone can, either because they are broken, or simply don't have the strength of will not to give up in situations where others have gone through worse. There is no scale, so no way to know which factor resulted in someone turning others feelings off.

Grey scale hurting is done all day eveyday all over the world. You don't have to be HPD to affect that. Plus people hurt at different rates over different things and you don't have to be non or disordered for that.
Black and white thinking is easy and eveyone does it to some degree. The turning off of emotions is something that is generally linked with HPD. It's not true but we get the brunt of that all the time. Just because we appear to hvae stopped caring dosen't mean we just shut off emotions at will. Inside our minds we still have the emotions, we just choose not to show them. I used to say this a lot but no one listened then either. It's like the empathy vs. sympathy debate the non's used to try to have with me. They didn't listen to that either.

OtherHPD -

I grew up in a home with a BPD mom, and dad who was barely there. I still choose to care about others feelings. They woman I met told me more than once, she chooses not too, she is just in it for her. We can slice and dice it all we want, but it still comes down choices we make it. If we have no choice, then of course nothing matters.

xdude wrote:OtherHPD -

I grew up in a home with a BPD mom, and dad who was barely there. I still choose to care about others feelings. They woman I met told me more than once, she chooses not too, she is just in it for her. We can slice and dice it all we want, but it still comes down choices we make it. If we have no choice, then of course nothing matters.

Um......ok.
Thanks for sharing I guess.

Millon still doesn't seem to know what he is doing though.

yYyYy wrote:well is this against forum rule to criticize an author?
but anyway

his classificaiton of narcs and analysis of them are totally wrong
as sam vaknin pointed out(he said millon is wrong about that there are narcs who dont have inferiority issue at all and i agree)

also millon said hpds don:t siimply `feel` empty but they are just empty
wtf was he ever inside a hpds mind or something or what
what is he he says an individual is empty
that is totall bulllshit i demand more explanation from him if why he thinks hpds are empty
also all of classification of pds in millons book seem stupid

he classifies hpds into various types but that is weird too
anyway

There is nothing wrong with what millon is saying - we ARE empty - we don`t think like everyone else. There is nothing to it, we don`t have reasons for what we say/do, we don`t think. Other people have well thought through reasons for what they say and do. There IS something behind everything. He isen`t just thinking too much into it - you are thinking of everything way too little. The entire cluster B of personality disorders is in general so ######6 far out; it`s like an entirely different world we/they live in. Stop denying it. Or atleast try to, so that you may mayby one day be capable of escaping the pain you are in wethever you are aware of it or not. Everybody has a chance; you too. Just try.

Oh yeah, and don`t sympathize with other hpd`s (and NEVER sympathize with people who have bpd). Don´t even be aware of that others like that exist. You are the only person in the world like this. Just being near other people like that has lead to such huge setbacks for me; don`t make the same mistake.

Hello? wrote:There is nothing wrong with what millon is saying - we ARE empty - we don`t think like everyone else. There is nothing to it, we don`t have reasons for what we say/do, we don`t think. Other people have well thought through reasons for what they say and do. There IS something behind everything. He isen`t just thinking too much into it - you are thinking of everything way too little. ...

This is an interesting perspective. I had heard the words "I don't even know why I do what I do much of the time" more then once. I believe many if not "most? people do temper their actions and emotions with their intellectual/thinking side to varying degrees. That is to say they stop and think, why am I feeling this way? Our intellectual capacity to do so is really a wonderful thing.

Arguably when taken to an extreme that can be problematic too (i.e., repressing emotions comes at a cost, but it's possible to feel and be aware of one's own emotions without entirely forgoing intellectual awareness). The other extreme is just to react to every emotion/feeling*, and not to stop and think before acting/reacting.

* From my personal observations only, most of the emotional reacting I've observed in cluster-B types is in the form of reacting to real or perceived ego boosters & ego threats from others, as well as an on-going inner monologue of childhood hurts/fears that were never dealt with. Perhaps the later pain is extreme enough that it floods the emotions of a cluster-B type when they stop, think, listen to themselves?