why hpds can't keep time?

Most of the people I've known who fitted HPD-like behaviour weren't chronically late. The only people I can think of who fitted "HPD" at all and reported that problem were diagnosed with BPD not HPD. People I've known in environments full of HPD didn't seem like that at all, though I have to admit I didn't know any of them closely - I only saw what I did of them in public situations.

exquisitecorpse wrote:

MrKap wrote:Is that a fact?

I am almost always on time. But keeping track of hours, or a schedule, that's not easy for me. I always joked about having temporal lobe damage.

Not sure if I am HPD

If you look anything like your profile picture, then it's doubtful. Very doubtful.

orion8591 wrote:Why HPD's can't keep time...many evidently prefer a lyrical flowing world free of western geometries like time.

This sounds hippy-like, the way its put. Otherwise prefering a world lacking in appointed times just seems closer to how people outside larger civilisations may operate.

orion8591 wrote:
Time is a structure, a boundary line between what's approved and disapproved; if you show up for a job interview late you probably won't get it, in part because it might be a predictor that you will be late for work or school a lot in the future. So, stung, by failure in this area, many HPD's begin to subconsciously avoid time and deadlines, etc.

This seems like it could make sense with some cases of avoidance behaviour in adults. (Subconscious avoidance.) I think the question would be what in their past would cause a person to be stung by failure (or if you are unable to connect to your past in that way, what would suggest that they were)?

Personally I've had problems with avoidance behaviour (rooted in anger and avoidance of success rather than failure.) and I think its probably a much broader topic than one belonging in one PD forum. I don't know if any particular person you're basing this idea on would find being stung by failure is linked somehow to HPD type issues or not.

orion8591 wrote:Many Cluster B people don't seem to like structure, most likely because self-discipline is a problem for them. True?

Generally from what I've heard from a lot of people with PD dxes, yes this is true.

Personally "self-discipline" could be seen to be a problem for me because I can't seem to self direct my own behaviour until you look at the psychological functioning of that and realise while I might logically think "doing this is going to provide me with long-term benefits", because there isn't any emotional content to that motivation at all.

Most people's personality structure creates conflict, so you want the immediate reward, also the long term reward, and the result is that adults respond to those wants and needs in accordance to their emotions, keeping those things in balance to an extent.

A person without a fully developed ego and no superego can't do that - they have no emotional motivation for the non-immediate. I don't know about how it differs between PDs or what its like for others. I'd be interested to hear.

orion8591 wrote:Somewhat off topic but fairly closely related, one thing I have noticed though, is that a lot of AsPD's who have been to prison have a secret fondness for routine and order and structure...when those prison guards forced them to adapt to structure every day, it was like crude therapy, as if they experienced a little recovery.

That's called institutionalization. It happens to people who are locked in institutional environments for long periods of time. I've heard a lot of people say on leaving strictly controlled environments (not just prisons.) that they don't know what to do with themselves after they've been let out.

I was in a psych ward for 2 years in my teens... Its hard to say exactly how it affected my functioning but it did. While I'm able to keep myself busy, on some level I'm not sure I ever got back to or learned how to structure my own day in the same way most people do.

As far as incarceration and aspd go, generally people with AsPD and related disorders have difficulty with routine (and have also heard similar for other cluster Bs,) though I can understand how inability to deal with routine might create a desire to have routine created for you.
however generally unless a person is also dependant in some way, the moment people then begin to create that routine, unless the disordered person is in control of it, (i.e. its routine delivered as requested, which would almost require mind reading,) they then become angry very quickly.

I don't think institutionalization is recovery, allowing others to structure a day around you is closer to how a small child functions. - As you suggest its a demand response to being unable to meet a success criteria yourself.

orion8591 wrote:In fact, if you are too easy and cordial to AsPD out in the world I have noticed that some get nervous and agitated. Puzzling at first for me, who tried to reach them with conventional kindness. So now for me it's ok, if that's what you like...I'll give you some good structure (but not disrespectfully).

That would be closer related both to conditions that create aspd - kindness is probably responded to with suspicion, the condition itself - its not necessarily welcome or needed personally, and also conditions that the person is used to, e.g. if they've been in prison, kindness is not generally a known language.

orion8591 wrote:A male AsPD, who longed for structure, camaraderie and love from a dysfunctional father, a female HPD, who longed for attention, camaraderie and love from a dysfunctional mother...has a nice symmetrical ring to it.

No idea - I'm neither a male AsPD or a female HPD. lol Both my parents had a degree of dysfunction. I longed to no longer have to live in hell, I saw my parents as people who controlled me and prevented me from doing things I wanted to, (as well as forcing me to do things I didn't.) but was also given the message there was no escape, which seemed plausible mainly because a child requires people to provide food and a roof etc. I was given all the structure I needed, what I longed for was escape.

yYyYy wrote:

tigertim wrote:Maybe it's a sense of entitlement, a bit narc-like in its egocentricity, that rules don't really apply to you, and maybe you are worth the time waiting for you to appear? Just a speculation from what I know of HPDs.

wrong.
Just a speculation from that I am HPD.

5y, I expect you know what you are as well as the rest of us do. I expect you're perfectly capable of expressing what your issues are on your own. Speculating that you're HPD isn't really going to help you with your issues because whatever dx you can find a way to fit yourself into, you are still gonna have to deal with whatever the issues you have are.

I'm always on time.

Because I am a planning maniac and a control-freak!

In fact, I most often have to plan people's lives around me to ensure that they are on time. More often than not, they are happy to allow me to plan their itineraries for them...

katana wrote:5y, I expect you know what you are as well as the rest of us do.

well said in hpd forum
congratulations, katana's 'rest of us'!

yYyYy wrote:

katana wrote:5y, I expect you know what you are as well as the rest of us do.

well said in hpd forum
congratulations, katana's 'rest of us'!

I was talking more broadly, closer to people exploring PD or even as broadly as the human race.

-- Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:45 am --

...or maybe 5y is suffering from a delusional disorder and secretly thinks I have HPD and one day I am going to finally realise this amazing fact and come to terms with it...

edited