You Tell Me This...

If the Hpd seeks attention, if they are not uncomfortable with not being the center of attention, how is that not-or how could it not be-another description for Npd?

The Npd thinks Self, right? Their image, right? It's all about them, right? Well, the Hpd wanting attention directed towards them is also an all about them thing.

Is it true, or is it not?

I do not argue that the behavior patterns of one are not different than the other, but am postulating that Give me attention=A Form Of Narcissism No Matter How You Look At It.

Is it possible to agree that the very term of Hpd is an exact, albeit indirect, description of Narcissistic issues and traits?

YES

well....both are rooted in an arly narcissistic injury

I'd say that HPD is between NPD and BPD.

Yes and no.
I find myself attracted to men who are NPD or I was. Now that I am seeking help I'm on an anti -NPD kick. I was probably seeing something in myself.

HPD has an ability and can be empathetic. There is no room for empathy in the mind of an NPD. Its like a foriegn concept. Thats a big difference. I say its a dealbreaker. I can't imagine female narcissism be all that attractive for men unless the female is physically very beautiful or she has the money and the power to back her up.

maybe that's why the DSM 5 removed hpd from the DSM......

it was subsumed under NPD...

-- Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:30 am --

Mavet wrote:I'd say that HPD is between NPD and BPD.

how so?

Mavet wrote:I'd say that HPD is between NPD and BPD.

Agreed!

Quoting Virgo

HPD has an ability and can be empathetic. There is no room for empathy in the mind of an NPD. Its like a foriegn concept. Thats a big difference. I say its a dealbreaker.

Agreed with Mavet and Virgo. IMO HPD's and somatic NPD's are look-alikes. But underneath (in their minds, that is)...different.

Biological differences, if any, unknown. Seems like there is a higher incidence of BPD, HPD, other mental disorders (like depression, etc.) among the relatives of HPD's. Besides a same sex NPD parent, unknown what pathological patterns the relatives of NPD fit into.

Using pure stereotypical extremes to clarify the differences between HPD and NPD:

The HPD usually has a distant or weak relationship with the same sex parent, and the opposite sex parent is (1) authoritarian and dominating, or (2) inappropriately intimate, or (3) missing.
The NPD usually has a close relationship with the same sex parent, who is NPD also. The opposite sex parent (when present) is often in a co-dependent servile relationship with the NPD parent, and he/she also extends this servile sentiment to the developing NPD child.

HPD's are invalidated as children; most NPD's are outwardly spoiled, worshipped, as children (also a form of invalidation and abuse, but much more subtle, and abstract). A second smaller group of NPD's are injured as children but later compensate by later adopting a NPD persona.

HPD's idealize situations and people, especially their sig. others. The idealization can be extreme. Then they de-value the situation or person when the HPD finds ordinary flaws in the situation or person. People are beautiful, fantastic, then ugly and cruel, but all the same to be returned to, at a later time.

NPD's rationalize situations (especially ethical ones), and objectify people. People are things, to be used up, then discarded for good.

HPD's want to be the center of attention. Positive attention (i.e., admiration, adoration) is preferred, but negative attention (i.e., being a focus of frustration and anger) is an acceptable second.
NPD's want only to be admired...worshipped. Any criticism of them is intolerable to them.

HPD's are like BPD's
-in that they have periodic empathy (especially when idealizing others)
-they dissociate
-they are periodically unstable, lashing out in 'blame storms'
-they split others into good or bad
-they collect psychic injuries and wounds, using them later for leverage and 'blame storms'
(although most HPD's don't do these behaviors as severely as most BPD's do). The HPD's supply: I want to be the center of attention, is like a refinement of the BPD's supply: don't leave me.

NPD's are more like AsPD's
-in that they don't have much, if any empathy. Others are subhuman things.
-they don't understand, and so frequently despise, abstract concepts like ethics and love, have no few fantasies and no delusions, don't dissociate, and are hardly ever psychotic (unless co-morbid with a psychotic disorder, or on drugs)
-are fairly stable, except for outbursts of anger and rage
-don't split others, everyone else basically being constantly undesirable
-when high functioning, are often highly intelligent, and more interested in common worldly concrete values like wealth, political power, etc.
NPD's are less intense in these behaviors than AsPD's. The NPD's supply: admire and worship me, is a less refined version of one common type of AsPD supply: give me total power over you.

Most HPD's (when not upset), are more warm, romantic, bubbly, even comical. Most NPD's are more serious, cold, objective, and shrewd, in comparison.

Millon's Disingenuous HPD seems to connect HPD to NPD (and AsPD?). If you visit the NPD forum, a poster named Margharris presents an interesting bridge coming from the other direction:from NPD to HPD: "The Good Girl Narcissist," a kinda covert, superficially gregarious NPD female who seems to mobilize a somewhat smaller version of the classic HPD fan club, in order to achieve admiration and defend herself against detractors.

Crystal said

maybe that's why the DSM 5 removed hpd from the DSM......

it was subsumed under NPD...

Interesting, havn't heard that. But I don't know if it works for the less notorious subtypes of HPD, i.e., Appeasing, Infantile. They don't seem obviously narcissistic.

there are overt and covert subtypes of NPD.

Appeasing and Infantile could fit under covert NPD.

crystal_richardson_ wrote:there are overt and covert subtypes of NPD.

Appeasing and Infantile could fit under covert NPD.

Hmm. Good point.

Mavet wrote:I'd say that HPD is between NPD and BPD.

That is a fresh and insightful view I've never heard before...

crystal_richardson_ wrote:YES

well....both are rooted in an arly narcissistic injury

This is sort of the page I just got put on to consider about Hpd. I quote this from a blog about Narcissism:

This is an outgrowth of the narcissistic need to have all attention focused on them. We already understand that attention is the drug that the narcissist pursues at every moment. This is the core motivation that moves them

http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/se ... arcissists (very first paragraph).

When I read that I thought, "This explains why the Hpd seems so Maliganat Npd sometimes" (because I never allowed myslef to fully embrace the two being as though they could be one until I saw this well written blog on NPD talk about "attention" which is an Hpd thing, and synchronize them together).

Plus I've read a lot that the Hpd has narc traits too. However, just the way that paragraph is written chimed a bell within me: "How could anyone who demands attention, wants to be the center of it above others, how could this not possibly be a blatant form of Narcissism if chronically taken to the extreme?"

Which is a big part of what Hpd does, right? As to the attention seeking. Well, with the one I knew, it was all about her.

With the narc, it is all about him.

Edit: What do you Hpd's consider yourself? How different to the Narc do you think you are? How similiar or different to the Bpd do you think you are?

If you could name just one thing that sets you aside from the other pd's, what would it be?