Are HPD's sadistic?

Leni,


I hate to add another point of discussion without actually answering your question... But, your description doesn't sound like sadism at all. It seems manipulative/attention seeking, but not sadistic.

BTW... I am Dx'ed BPD and HPD... And I can't tell from a ten line non-descript post whether someone is BPD or HPD or not... So Lawdy knows how others can...

ohoHohHOcacster~

I think some of them can be, just like anyone else. My HPD friend, before I knew about HPD and was still being played by her, told me about a guy she dated 3 times and he fell for her. She told me that she told him over the phone that she didn't want to see him anymore and he started bawling. She explained how she was at lunch with her mom and some other women, and she held the phone up so they could all hear him crying and pleading with her.
She then proceeded to open her Facebook, and said "he told me he is going to dedicate a different video to me each day for the next 30 days..teehee." I asked her why she doesn't just drop him from FB and walk away if she sees no future with him and she said "some people just crack me up. I like to keep them around for a laugh."

Ultimately, what is more important than whether or not she is HPD and whether or not this is sadistic behaviour, is the fact that she is behaving in unacceptable ways and her behaviour is having a negative impact upon people. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to discuss ways that you could deal with her behaviour?

sounds histrionic to me leni. But obviously, as with all personality disorders, these symptoms can arise in people who don't have disorders. they are normal aspects of human behaviour in an exaggerated form...

the reason i disagreed with BPD is that BPD isn't an attention seeking disorder- it's characterised by inability to trust, lack of a solid personal identity, and a series of self harming behaviours including suicide gestures and drug and alcohol abuse. I think you're right to rule this one out, and I think your suspicions about HPD probably have a lot of ground to them... obviously there can be cross overs, but nothing you said sounds like BPD. i should know, I was diagnosed with it so i have learned a lot about it

good luck, i hope she finds the help that she needs, and that you also find the support you need
X

omalley_cat wrote:sounds histrionic to me leni. But obviously, as with all personality disorders, these symptoms can arise in people who don't have disorders. they are normal aspects of human behaviour in an exaggerated form...

the reason i disagreed with BPD is that BPD isn't an attention seeking disorder- it's characterised by inability to trust, lack of a solid personal identity, and a series of self harming behaviours including suicide gestures and drug and alcohol abuse. I think you're right to rule this one out, and I think your suspicions about HPD probably have a lot of ground to them... obviously there can be cross overs, but nothing you said sounds like BPD. i should know, I was diagnosed with it so i have learned a lot about it

good luck, i hope she finds the help that she needs, and that you also find the support you need
X

If it doesn't have any BPD features, why are HPD's so often comorbid with it?

I believe BPD is an organic brain issue... not even related.

Just coincidence. and I doubt that they are... it's probably just the worst of the HPD's that are discovered ... or just the few that are on this webpage.

- Labor.

I still haven't really gotten an answer as to whether HPD's are sadistic. People are going off on tangents, describing other disorders to me, focusing on this particular person, etc. I'm not going to convince everyone on this board that she's histrionic. It's my personal opinion that she is. Out of some courtesy, I didn't want to reveal all the things she does. However, I will state that, she needs constant attention from men, and even though she's in a relationship, she's incapable of being monogamous. She will flirt and sleep with a homeless man, if need be. She sees other women as competition. She will also sleep with her best friend's boyfriend, if need be. In fact, she likes sabotaging other people's relationships. She needs for people to constantly give her attention, and if they don't, she will make a scene, either crying, or screaming, or something to that effect. She said that she feels like a princess, and that other people need to cater to her needs. Her whole life revolves around her appearance, and she has a very particular way of speaking, where she puts emphasis on words, and makes very emotional sort of intonations. I can't describe it but that's the way she speaks. She goes to other people's houses, and sleeps there, and demands that people cater to her needs, and treat her like a princess, that's why I used that example of not allowing others to make any sort of noise while she's sleeping till the late afternoon. She also prefers to sleep in some kind of living room area, where people have to move around, and if they make noise, she creates a scene. To me, the sadistic element might not be apparent, but it's there. She's not a borderline to me, because she doesn't have emotions. Her emotions are very shallow, and they mostly revolve around her appearance or other people failing to treat her like a princess, or having a meltdown over a broken nail or something. I see borderlines as kind of tortured souls, and she's not tortured in the least. She can be very sunny, but there's nothing really there underneath. She also has no empathy for others, but has a very sort of overly-emotional/maudlin way of behaving that people would think she's emotional or has empathy.

-- Mon May 21, 2012 7:59 pm --

omalley_cat wrote:sounds histrionic to me leni. But obviously, as with all personality disorders, these symptoms can arise in people who don't have disorders. they are normal aspects of human behaviour in an exaggerated form...

the reason i disagreed with BPD is that BPD isn't an attention seeking disorder- it's characterised by inability to trust, lack of a solid personal identity, and a series of self harming behaviours including suicide gestures and drug and alcohol abuse. I think you're right to rule this one out, and I think your suspicions about HPD probably have a lot of ground to them... obviously there can be cross overs, but nothing you said sounds like BPD. i should know, I was diagnosed with it so i have learned a lot about it

good luck, i hope she finds the help that she needs, and that you also find the support you need
X

Thanks, I agree with you. I described her in detail, in my last post, so people can think what they want. She is not a borderline to me at all. She doesn't have emotions. She has a very theatrical display of emotions, that are not really rooted inside, if that makes any sense.

-- Mon May 21, 2012 8:01 pm --

masquerade wrote:Ultimately, what is more important than whether or not she is HPD and whether or not this is sadistic behaviour, is the fact that she is behaving in unacceptable ways and her behaviour is having a negative impact upon people. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to discuss ways that you could deal with her behaviour?

There is a way to deal with her, and that's to ignore her. She hates being ignored. If you give her any kind of attention, good or bad, she feeds off of it. Ignoring is neutral and she can't really do anything with it, but that wasn't really my question. My question was, are HPD's sadistic, and why are they so, but I haven't really gotten any kind of in depth answers to this. Thanks anyway.

-- Mon May 21, 2012 8:02 pm --

cacster wrote:Leni,


I hate to add another point of discussion without actually answering your question... But, your description doesn't sound like sadism at all. It seems manipulative/attention seeking, but not sadistic.

BTW... I am Dx'ed BPD and HPD... And I can't tell from a ten line non-descript post whether someone is BPD or HPD or not... So Lawdy knows how others can...

Well, when people respond to her antics, with great distress, she has a hint of a smile on her face, and she refuses to leave...I would call that sadism. Normal people don't smile at other people's pain.

masquerade wrote:There is a grey area between HPD and BPD and they can also exist co morbidly. Very often people can have characteristics of more than one personality disorder. It is very rare to find a textbook case of pure HPD. The more disigenous types may have traits of ASPD.

This person may or may not have a personality disorder. There are some people who are just plain awkward! Not all people with HPD will be sadistic or show a lack of empathy, although there are some who will.

No offense, but to me, bpd and hpd are very different, otherwise there wouldn't be two different descriptions for two different disorders. Like the other poster said, hpd is more of an attention seeking type disorder, whereas bpd is more of an identity, inability to control one's emotions type of disorder. This particular person has little to no emotions, she just has a very theatrical/exaggerated display of emotions. Plus, why do we even need the DSM-v, or why do we even have a list of symptoms, when we're not allowed to put 2 and 2 together, and realize that someone has something. She has ALL the symptoms of a histrionic. I listed pretty much all the things she does in my last point. If you think she's borderline after all that I listed, then keep on thinking that. Oh , and she's not awkward in the least. She's very charming, with both the opposite and same sex, and can get herself out of anything, with her very sort of seductive/princessy attitude.

-- Mon May 21, 2012 8:11 pm --

Big C wrote:

Leni* wrote:She is not a borderline at all. I didn't mention all the things she does, but she has all the symptoms of someone with HPD. Inappropriately seductive, shallow emotions, causing scenes when she is not the center of attention, exaggerated emotionality, etc...

Regardless of whether people think this particular person is histrionic or not, I just want to know, if histrionics are sadistic in general?

I personally think they are, and I read on this forum somewhere, how they're closely related to sociopaths even, of course without all of the same symptoms.

But yes, it seems as though there is a touch of sadism or even more in histrionics, because they seem to enjoy getting any sort of reaction out of you, good or bad, as long as they are the center of attention...However I'm just curious, why they seem to actually find pleasure in other people getting upset...In this particular case, I've seen her laugh directly in my face, when I was upset by something she did....

So you are merely seeking validation for what you already have determined is the diagnosis. WHy ask then? Masquerades definition for your purposes is as valid as any.

I'm not seeking validation at all. You should read my initial post again. I asked whether HPD's are sadistic, and I even said that people don't have to believe that this particular person is histrionic, to just answer whether histrionics in general are sadistic.

-- Mon May 21, 2012 8:17 pm --

lodi dodi wrote:HPD.

Her motives are for attention and getting away with being unruly, reflecting parent child dynamics of criticism and the child lacking positive attention with expectations of strict adherence to rules.

What's with people throwing bpd dx around. Unhinged women means bpd?

Her sadism reflects her childishness and satiating her inclinations for (negative) attention.
It's not self destructive but self indulging.

This is the best explanation I've read so far. She is very childish, and she'll sometimes and out of the blue, even speak like a child, especially if she's trying to get out of something, flirting/cheating with other men, etc. But yea, it's almost like she's this child that actually enjoys seeing the negative reaction people have to her very selfish, self-absorbed actions. Oh, and I couldn't have said better what you did. She loves to get away with things. When other people let her behave like a princess in their own home, and let her rule the roost, she has the biggest smile on her face. This one time, she slept in someone's living room till 5 pm, and she and her boyfriend locked themselves in, and people couldn't enter their own house. When she woke up from her nap, and she saw the people standing outside, she was the happiest person ever. If that' not sadism, I don't know what is.

Hi Leni,

your answer is no.

the DSM IV does not include sadism as an element of Histrionic Personality Disorder. hope this helps:

Characteristics

People with this disorder are usually able to function at a high level and can be successful socially and professionally. People with histrionic personality disorder usually have good social skills, but they tend to use these skills to manipulate other people and become the center of attention.[1] Furthermore, histrionic personality disorder may affect a person's social or romantic relationships or their ability to cope with losses or failures. They may seek treatment for depression when romantic relationships end, although this is by no means a feature exclusive to this disorder.

They often fail to see their own personal situation realistically, instead tending to dramatize and exaggerate their difficulties. They may go through frequent job changes, as they become easily bored and have trouble dealing with frustration. Because they tend to crave novelty and excitement, they may place themselves in "risky" situations. All of these factors may lead to greater risk of developing depression.

Additional symptoms may include:
Exhibitionist behavior.
Constant seeking of reassurance or approval.
Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotions, such as hugging someone they have just met or crying uncontrollably during a sad movie (Svrakie & Cloninger, 2005).
Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval.
Proud of own personality, unwillingness to change and any change is viewed as a threat.
Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior.
Somatic symptoms, and using these symptoms as a means of garnering attention.
A need to be the center of attention.
Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification.
Rapidly shifting emotional states that may appear superficial or exaggerated to others.
Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are.
Making rash decisions.[1]
A limited or minimal capability of experiencing love.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic ... y_disorder

- Labor.