Ex-fiance has HPD; stunned and angry

I feel sorry for all of you that have had a relationship destroyed by someone w/HPD.

It just happened to me and my head is still spinning. I called off the engagement b/c I caught her cheating on me a *second* time (after I suspected it for about a month).

I had NO clue about HPD until I saw a psychologist who, after listening to me describe the relationship, events, her actions, etc., diagnosed her with it at the beginning of our second session!

I then proceeded to read everything I could about it and it fits her to a tee.

I'm so angry and I feel so disrespected, emotionally violated and betrayed. It's just beyond my comprehension how someone could conduct themselves so selfishly, so callously, without regard to how their actions affect somone they purportedly LOVED and wanted to spend the rest of their life with. Someone she wanted to make a committment with.

These people CAN'T make committments - to themselves or to others. They can't be true to themselves.

Not sure why I'm posting - to vent I guess - but to also say I empathize with all of you who have gone through something similar.

I'm exploring my own decisions and motivations and mindset that allowed me to tolerate and accept the emotional abuse she put me through.

Love is blind? That must be it. Or maybe stupidity.

Can anyone explain why they stayed with an HPD individual? Why they loved them? Cared for them? Took their crap and tried to trust them when everything in your mind suggested otherwise?

These people are dangerous. And there is one out there (my ex) that I hope no one has the misfortune of meeting. She doesn't even KNOW she has this problem and doesn't accept any culpability for anything that happened. What a shame good, innocent, caring and decent people have to be victimized by these creatures.

- Burned in Chicago

My heart goes out to you man as I was myself victimized by one of these soulless creatures.

They are so cruel and hurtful because they have absolutely no empathy.

They just don't understand what it means to be a decent human being actually a plain old human being for that matter as this is just a division of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder whose sufferers use their mental abilities real or imagined to get what they need. Histrionic Personality Disorder focuses on the body and sexuality to get what these people want that being a term known in both disorders as Narcissistic Supply which is love, lust, attention, admiration and adulation.

These people exist to please themselves everyone else be damned.

They are selfish consciousless children in adult bodies.

"Can anyone explain why they stayed with an HPD individual? Why they loved them? Cared for them? Took their crap and tried to trust them when everything in your mind suggested otherwise?"

I stayed with her, loved her, cared for her and took her crap and trusted her even when my mind suggested otherwise ie she was lying and is a liar because for a time she made me feel love that no other human being has ever made me feel before. A love that I didn't think was possible and I'm sure it was the same for you with your HPD significant other.

The reason this is so is because these people have no self and have a use for us. That use is to get a self. That self being ours.

They use us by binding to our personalities becoming a version of ourselves that maybe we always wanted to be. An idealized version. So in a sickening way you and I did not love these girls in actuality but an idealized version of ourselves as thats the role they were playing for us to serve their purposes of getting us to love them and giving them an identity which they don't have.

Oh yeah and the reason she could so callously cheat on you and rip out your heart without batting an eye is because to her you and every other human being on planet earth are merely an object put here for her enjoyment or indifference. The reason they cheat is because they need narcissistic supply from many different people. The newness of a different person is exciting to them.

"I'm so angry and I feel so disrespected, emotionally violated and betrayed. It's just beyond my comprehension how someone could conduct themselves so selfishly, so callously, without regard to how their actions affect somone they purportedly LOVED and wanted to spend the rest of their life with. Someone she wanted to make a committment with."

Oh can I ever identify with your feelings of anger and intense betrayel but I must say typically what happens in these scenarios is the HPD gets what they want more than anything ie you telling her you love her or she senses you really like her and then she goes from idealizing you to a term known as devalue and discard where she can throw you away like rubbish without a second thought about her actions and your wellbeing after that damage is done. The way to keep an HPD supposedly according to the psychologist Al Bernstein is not let her know you love/like her a lot and keep a cold detachment or at least I think thats what he got around to saying one time. Really though what kind of mentally healthy person wants to have a relationship like that where you can't express your love for a girl or even that you just really like her without her turning on you? Answer: Someone just as ****ed up as she is. Anyway give yourself a lot of credit my friend. You ended it first and usually its these HPD people sticking that final knife in themselves as they get people to be so in love with them through their manipulations that its extremely hard for the average person to let go.

The girl who victimized me acted like she was absolutely in love with me for the longest time and then out of nowhere came the projecting that these people do that I was a serial killer and rapist just trying to butter her up for the inevitable attack I was like WTF is going on here. Then I was devalued and discarded. Absolutely crazy as I have no criminal record for anything haven't even gotten a ticket ever. LOL.

The truth is she is both of these things she tried to say I was as she rapes men's souls with her false love and she serial kills men's dreams by appearing to be what she is not ie that perfect someone who any man would love to spend the rest of their lives with.

"These people are dangerous. And there is one out there (my ex) that I hope no one has the misfortune of meeting. She doesn't even KNOW she has this problem and doesn't accept any culpability for anything that happened. What a shame good, innocent, caring and decent people have to be victimized by these creatures."

Ha. I confronted my HPD with her disorder months later and she seemed interested and confused and even claimed she'd been wrong about what she did to me but as usual with her I got the sense that she was just telling me what I wanted to hear so I would just go away and stop bothering her with all this accountability nonsense that these people just can't be bothered with.

Anyway here are some helpful reading sites about HPD if you need anymore things to read for comfort and explanations.


http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/histrion.htm

Scroll down and read Mike_The_Man's post on this very forum about Cluster B personality disorders which histrionic is a part of.
The rest of the thread is filled with absolute happy sappy non truthful garbage. His post and Blue Phoenix's are the only truth you'll get in that topic about this horrible heartbreaking disorder.

The girl who posted in there who suffered from HPD well her posts made my skin crawl to say the least. Reading it sounded exactly how my HPD would talk. That same bull**** dramatic, manipulative, lying, absolute ******* garbage style of speech.

http://www.psychforums.com/forums/viewt ... 8&start=10

The Way of the Attention Wh0re.
Classic sosuave.net thread.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread ... adid=55343

Absolutely nothing helped me more than Sam Vaknin's NPD site.
His stuff on Narcissism really hit home with me on how the girl's mind works that I was involved with..

http://samvak.tripod.com/

Anyway if you ever need someone to talk to about this whose been through it feel free to PM me. We can exchange AIM names if you have that LOL.

Thanks for your reply. It's very helpful and brings a deal of comfort to me. You got hammered bad it seems.

I don't know about you, but until I found out she had HPD I thought I was wrong, that even though I walked in on her cheating on me once and then heard her doing it a second time and witnessed all the actions to try and hide from me as a result, I actually questioned if I was wrong when she adamantly denied it and told me I ruined this relationship? How weak was I???

What right do people think they have to hurt people like this?

Despite that, my sadness and anger - mercifully - are starting to slowly turn to relief - relief that I don't have a lifetime of this ahead of me, relief that I won't be monitoring and following her actions because I am paranoid she is cheating on me, relief knowing I won't have to worry about "setting her off" because I question something she does, etc.

What I am struggling to get a handle on is why, despite her HPD, she would sacrifice a great future with an oustanding individual (i.e. me - haha - at least I think I'm outstanding!) - nice life, family, kids, travel, great house, security, all those wonderful things - for capricious and impulsive pleasures?

I mean, she's an intelligent person - lawyer, 7 yrs college, professional. And successful at what she does. She is a litigator so the arguing portion of her personality is leveraged there.

Is she nuts? Well, I guess so. Haha.

She agreed/committed to marry me. Committment and trust are the most important things in a relationship IMO. But come to think of it, she couldn't even make small committments like - not to do a drug again, or take dancing lessions, or get up early twice a week to go jogging, etc. b/c she "didn't want to tie herself down on a Thursday night" or "make promises she couldn't keep." Yeah, promising not to do an illegal drug again is a tough committment. Laughable. I can't believe I tolerated that. I need to find out why on that one. Hence the psychologist I'm meeting with. Haha.

God, the signs were all there I was just stupid/blinded/whatever.

Why, if she was doing all this cheating behind my back, would she agree to that, even w/HPD? Can't she reason and realize she is dooming this relationship through her actions?

Why not just be honest with me? I asked her repeatedly if she was sure, if there was no one else ('cause I suspected stuff) - "No, honey. I love you! Don't you trust me?"

And twenty seconds later she would turn it on me...

"You must not trust me or you are looking for an excuse to end this relationship because you ask me this repeatedly!" And she would badger me along those lines for a while.

And like a schmuck I would cave and fall for it.

She would never, in any discussion when I brought up a concern, offer something more mature and introspective like "Let's explore these thoughts you have - together - and determine why you have them so we can assuage you concerns and address them."

And she always seemed to turn things around - if I brought up any issue, she attacked me instead of trying to resolve it together.

She wanted to be married and told me repeatedly there was no one else, she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me, etc. etc. She seemed so damn sincere. All lies. She was such a good liar.

All a mechanism to supply her needs - as I know now. Come to think about it, she was more excited about the process of planning for the wedding then about marrying me. Jeez.

They are so cruel and hurtful because they have absolutely no empathy.

So true. She couldn't/wouldn't try and understand how I felt about things. It was her way and you were wrong if you thought differently. Often, she would have a rapid emotional swing and get angry and lash out at me, a sign of HPD I know now.

Histrionic Personality Disorder focuses on the body and sexuality to get what these people want that being a term known in both disorders as Narcissistic Supply which is love, lust, attention, admiration and adulation.

Absolutely.

These people exist to please themselves everyone else be damned.

They are selfish consciousless children in adult bodies.

She did buy me things - shirts, watches, cologne - and paid for a lot of meals. But that's easy to do IMO and self-sacrifice - doing something you don't want to do or giving up something truly meaningful to you - she rarely did. Oh, she cooked occasionally (maybe 5 times?) in the 11 mos. relationship.

"Can anyone explain why they stayed with an HPD individual? Why they loved them? Cared for them? Took their crap and tried to trust them when everything in your mind suggested otherwise?"

I stayed with her, loved her, cared for her and took her crap and trusted her even when my mind suggested otherwise ie she was lying and is a liar because for a time she made me feel love that no other human being has ever made me feel before. A love that I didn't think was possible and I'm sure it was the same for you with your HPD significant other.

Yes. I hear ya. Lies. And then you (I) tried to rationalize it.

"I must be wrong" I would think. My poor friends. I would call them after something happened, say I was through with her, and a day later would tell them "Oh, it was my fault primarily." The creature got inside my head and had me thinking I was the one to blame.

She was funny, spontaneous, exciting, provative (sexually - of course I now understand that to be an HPD sign) and somewhat decent in bed.

Honest, integrity, self-sacrifice, courage, etc. - all missing I see now in retrospect.

The reason this is so is because these people have no self and have a use for us. That use is to get a self. That self being ours.

Yes. She didn't have any hobbies. She worked. Worked out occasionally. Read a book here and there. And hung out w/friends - at bars, clubs, etc. Occasionally she'd see a movie w/a friend. And she did a drug. All her friends did.

She didn't have deep relationships w/anyone I see now in retrospect (another HPD sign).

So in a sickening way you and I did not love these girls in actuality but an idealized version of ourselves as thats the role they were playing for us to serve their purposes of getting us to love them and giving them an identity which they don't have.

Man, this is just incredible. I had no idea people are wired this way.

Oh yeah and the reason she could so callously cheat on you and rip out your heart without batting an eye is because to her you and every other human being on planet earth are merely an object put here for her enjoyment or indifference. The reason they cheat is because they need narcissistic supply from many different people. The newness of a different person is exciting to them.

She was the biggest flirt. She would do the greeting kiss the second or third time after meeting someone (a bouncer at a club for instance).

At clubs (I hated going to those damn things and did it to placate her) she would suddenly get distant from me - less physical contact, less interest - like she was embarassed to be with me. Always wanted me to go get drinks and use the restroom or for her to go alone and get drinks so she could be out of sight for a while to do God knows what.

Freaked me out once when we returned to club we'd been to like twice together and all these employees recognized her (bouncer, bathroom attendents, etc.) like she was a regular. Probably was somehow. Bizarre.

Oh can I ever identify with your feelings of anger and intense betrayel but I must say typically what happens in these scenarios is the HPD gets what they want more than anything ie you telling her you love her or she senses you really like her and then she goes from idealizing you to a term known as devalue and discard where she can throw you away like rubbish without a second thought about her actions and your wellbeing after that damage is done.

I know. I never, ever got the sense she had any empathy and could identify with how I felt about things. She couldn't accept I might feel differently about something than she did and that didn't make it necessarily wrong.

What angers me the most is that she is accepting no consequences for her actions. She doesn't believe she did anything wrong. She is not holding any personal accountability for herself.

That's #######4. People like this should somehow be held accountable for the damage they do.

The way to keep an HPD supposedly according to the psychologist Al Bernstein is not let her know you love/like her a lot and keep a cold detachment or at least I think thats what he got around to saying one time. Really though what kind of mentally healthy person wants to have a relationship like that where you can't express your love for a girl or even that you just really like her without her turning on you? Answer: Someone just as ****ed up as she is. Anyway give yourself a lot of credit my friend. You ended it first and usually its these HPD people sticking that final knife in themselves as they get people to be so in love with them through their manipulations that its extremely hard for the average person to let go.

I could never, ever live like that. EVER. Wow, is that terrible. To refrain from giving your love to someone? You're right. The only one who could do that is someone who is as ###$ up as the HPD individual.

The girl who victimized me acted like she was absolutely in love with me for the longest time and then out of nowhere came the projecting that these people do that I was a serial killer and rapist just trying to butter her up for the inevitable attack I was like WTF is going on here. Then I was devalued and discarded. Absolutely crazy as I have no criminal record for anything haven't even gotten a ticket ever. LOL.

Man, that's extreme and just whacked.

Anyway here are some helpful reading sites about HPD if you need anymore things to read for comfort and explanations.

Thanks. I'll definitely be checking them out.

Well, this venting helps. Thanks for listening/reading.[/quote]

This is a good discussion!

See what I found on that "sosuave" about Histrionic:http://rapidshare.de/files/7692964/Tom_Leykis_2003-03-11b__From_The_Tom_Leykis_Glossary__AW.mp3.html

More on the serial flirt:

1. http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi/36_dating_girl.html
2. http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi/26_dating_girl.html

This is a good forum!

"Thanks for your reply. It's very helpful and brings a deal of comfort to me. You got hammered bad it seems."

No problem man. I am always extremely happy when I can help someone recover from or avoid an HPD person.

"I don't know about you, but until I found out she had HPD I thought I was wrong, that even though I walked in on her cheating on me once and then heard her doing it a second time and witnessed all the actions to try and hide from me as a result, I actually questioned if I was wrong when she adamantly denied it and told me I ruined this relationship? How weak was I???"

I felt wrong too my man. Its called projection. She and I were always very sexual when talking with eachother. As it ended she made me feel like the pervert and the bad guy using projection which is part of their disorders.

"What right do people think they have to hurt people like this?"

Oh they know intellectually that what they do will hurt people an incredible amount but remember people are objects to them. If you were working on a paper for school or something else and you broke your pencil by pressing it too hard against the paper due to your frustration are you going to feel bad about breaking that pencil breaking that object? Are you going to care about that pencils rights?? Nope. Well maybe a little bit if it was one of those cool shiny ones but your bad feelings will quickly pass. Its this exact same way toward people in the incredible sick HPD mind.

"Despite that, my sadness and anger - mercifully - are starting to slowly turn to relief - relief that I don't have a lifetime of this ahead of me, relief that I won't be monitoring and following her actions because I am paranoid she is cheating on me, relief knowing I won't have to worry about "setting her off" because I question something she does, etc."

Exactly man follow those true thoughts and soon your mind will be free of her influence.

"What I am struggling to get a handle on is why, despite her HPD, she would sacrifice a great future with an oustanding individual (i.e. me - haha - at least I think I'm outstanding!) - nice life, family, kids, travel, great house, security, all those wonderful things - for capricious and impulsive pleasures?"

Don't feel bad/inadequate/whatever over her cheating on you like you weren't good enough or something and thats why she did it because thats not true. Imagine the coolest guy you've ever known or someone who you think is the coolest ie celebrity/whatever. If she was involved with that cool guy she would cheat on him too!
It doesn't matter how awesome a guy is, how pimpin etc. These HPD chicks literally need the thrill, drama and excitement someone new brings to them.

"I mean, she's an intelligent person - lawyer, 7 yrs college, professional. And successful at what she does. She is a litigator so the arguing portion of her personality is leveraged there.

Is she nuts? Well, I guess so. Haha."

LOL yes she's nuts and another interesting thing you might want to know about why she's a lawyer. Well it says in the HPD document that I linked up for you that HPD's often go into law enforcement type of careers as a kind of self treatment method for themselves and to get that attention of a job well done from people etc. My HPD often talked about wanting to become an FBI agent or photographer both professions the HPD document reveals these people thrive in. They also need distractions so they don't begin to think about their inner self and how horrible and empty they feel and are inside. My HPD doesn't simply drink alcohol she abuses alcohol to the point she will drink until she cannot speak about everytime she starts to drink. Thats what she does along with marathon online gaming and going to parties here and there to distract herself. Think about how much work a lawyer has to do of reading and such and you'll begin to see a big reason your HPD is a lawyer along with that just being a career choice an HPD would thrive in and the other reason is because its something she could do to distract herself ie all that reading people in that profession have to do along with dealing with their clients and cases. Distraction, distraction, distraction!

"She agreed/committed to marry me. Committment and trust are the most important things in a relationship IMO. But come to think of it, she couldn't even make small committments like - not to do a drug again, or take dancing lessions, or get up early twice a week to go jogging, etc. b/c she "didn't want to tie herself down on a Thursday night" or "make promises she couldn't keep." Yeah, promising not to do an illegal drug again is a tough committment. Laughable. I can't believe I tolerated that. I need to find out why on that one. Hence the psychologist I'm meeting with. Haha."

You were deeply in love pure and simple. Love is blind as they say.

Also its interesting what you say about her not being able to commit. I talked to one of my HPDs past victims I found out about after she was done with me and we compared notes and he told me quote "she doesn't know what she wants or who the hell she is" and "she's never followed through on anything."
This guy was screwed over by her even worse than I was. He was friends with her for 9 months then she conned him into a relationship which lasted about 4 months and yes she cheated on him of course but anyway they were talking marriage and saying they loved eachother and all of that and getting what she wanted ie him telling her he loved her for a time she then callously cut off all contact with this guy and moved onto her next victim who is unfortunately making this post informing you of this right now.

"God, the signs were all there I was just stupid/blinded/whatever."

Uninformed. Not stupid. Remember that.

I mean what average person knows about the existance of personality disorders?

I had no idea things like histrionic personality disorder existed before this chick came along that ruined my life for a time.

"Why, if she was doing all this cheating behind my back, would she agree to that, even w/HPD? Can't she reason and realize she is dooming this relationship through her actions?"

Its exciting for the HPD and NPD to take a relationship as far as it will go. Engagements, weddings etc bring with them drama and excitement as does the subsequent divorce. Sick, sick, sick and no she can't reason. These people have difficulty with logic.

"Why not just be honest with me? I asked her repeatedly if she was sure, if there was no one else ('cause I suspected stuff) - "No, honey. I love you! Don't you trust me?"

LOL, an HPD be honest? You must be kidding me. Part of all Cluster B personality disorder traits are pathological lying. Sometimes these people lie consciously and other times they just can't help themselves.

"And twenty seconds later she would turn it on me...

"You must not trust me or you are looking for an excuse to end this relationship because you ask me this repeatedly!" And she would badger me along those lines for a while.

And like a schmuck I would cave and fall for it."

Projection a.k.a gaslighting is horrible.

"She would never, in any discussion when I brought up a concern, offer something more mature and introspective like "Let's explore these thoughts you have - together - and determine why you have them so we can assuage you concerns and address them."

In her disordered mind she is the most important person and you are not important. Also they are very shallow people without a lot of depth of character so you can't really expect her to say much worthwhile anyway even if she were to try to repair things with you in a mature way. LOL, what I just said is impossible. They can't be mature or relate in a mature way. You may have once thought she tried to do this on some other issue but in reality it was just mimicry of what she saw other normal people do. My HPD has a Myspace page and she literally stole a phrase I told her during our relationship and posted it talking to some guy on there. Mimicry to appear normal. Like us. Scary.

"And she always seemed to turn things around - if I brought up any issue, she attacked me instead of trying to resolve it together."

Yep, more projection my friend.

"She wanted to be married and told me repeatedly there was no one else, she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me, etc. etc. She seemed so damn sincere. All lies. She was such a good liar."

Ha. Seems if our HPD's were to compete for a role in Hamlet over who could play the more convincing "wretched queen" it'd be one hell of a decision for the casting crew to make. Excellent liars and actresses are these.

"All a mechanism to supply her needs - as I know now. Come to think about it, she was more excited about the process of planning for the wedding then about marrying me. Jeez."

Yep, I covered this a little earlier in my response post I think.

They are selfish consciousless children in adult bodies.

"She did buy me things - shirts, watches, cologne - and paid for a lot of meals. But that's easy to do IMO and self-sacrifice - doing something you don't want to do or giving up something truly meaningful to you - she rarely did. Oh, she cooked occasionally (maybe 5 times?) in the 11 mos. relationship."

Ask yourself why she bought those things for you though? What were the reasons behind it?? Certainly not to make you happy because she really cares about you but to keep you under her spell because she was still getting something from you. Like I said before they are selfish and consciousless children in adult bodies. Its like Hannibal Lecter said to Clarice in the Silence of the Lambs "Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing, ask: What is it in itself what is its nature?" The woman you were involved with has histrionic personality disorder that is what she is in herself and what her nature consists of is manipulating people ie objects to get what she needs from them. You can't say well she did a good thing for me here and think in that instance she was a good person because what she did was simply a disgusting manipulation tactic and not a genuine act of a person in love.

"She was funny, spontaneous, exciting, provative (sexually - of course I now understand that to be an HPD sign) and somewhat decent in bed.

Honest, integrity, self-sacrifice, courage, etc. - all missing I see now in retrospect."

It hurts reading this man because its like we were involved with the same woman and in a way we were albeit not the same person. I initially thought the girl I was involved with was the nicest, sweetest person I ever met in my life and I thought she probably had all those qualities you just mentioned but no they were all missing I see in retrospect. In fact I'll go so far as to say my HPD and all HPD's (who don't get treatment) are cowards. Afraid to let themselves be loved and to love. Afraid to face themselves and figure out who in the hell they really are so they don't have to go ripping off other people's personalities and just afraid to be a loving human being genuinely as true love to them is disgusting as its a sign of weakness.
Wrong HPD people. Truly loving someone is one of the strongest most courageous things a person can do in life.

"She was the biggest flirt. She would do the greeting kiss the second or third time after meeting someone (a bouncer at a club for instance)."

LOL, well my HPD has yours defeated in this department as she very likely performed oral sex on two black gentlemen (she told me this out of the blue one day while we were talking but she said it was just a viscious rumour these black guys started about her and guys for a longtime would come up to her and ask for the same lol and I asked her if it was true and she said no. I learned HPD's if they do something they later regret often like to make up an alternate story and that becomes their truth and to help cement that in their mind they tell other people their version of the truth so by telling me about this supposed rumour and that it wasn't true she could help herself believe it. Maybe she didn't do it and maybe she did. Its impossible to know for sure but I wouldn't doubt it any if I met one of those guys and he said she did it) and she very likely gave a handjob to some guy at a videogaming event in Las Vegas shortly after I poured my heart out to her before I knew about HPD trying to fix the situation between us and get her back with me. Note: The handjob was just what someone witnessed her doing to some random lucky guy in a room full of sleeping people. Who knows what else she did that wasn't caught. *Vomits*

"At clubs (I hated going to those damn things and did it to placate her) she would suddenly get distant from me - less physical contact, less interest - like she was embarassed to be with me. Always wanted me to go get drinks and use the restroom or for her to go alone and get drinks so she could be out of sight for a while to do God knows what."

Probably make out with other guys, drugs, alcohol or ugh worse...

"Freaked me out once when we returned to club we'd been to like twice together and all these employees recognized her (bouncer, bathroom attendents, etc.) like she was a regular. Probably was somehow. Bizarre."

I'm sure they all know her really well *wink wink*
After dealing with my HPD I get the impression that everyone in her apartment complex with a pulse (as she's bisexual) has had a piece of her.

"What angers me the most is that she is accepting no consequences for her actions. She doesn't believe she did anything wrong. She is not holding any personal accountability for herself.

That's #######4. People like this should somehow be held accountable for the damage they do."

Just remember that you are an object to her which means she feels about as guilty wronging you as she would for kicking and putting a dent in her refrigerator if she ever does that. Meaning not at all or slight guilt if any and I agree. I'd love to see some kind of law passed on this since these people do know intellectually what they are doing to people is wrong. Maybe some way to sue them at least or make them do community service. Maybe force them to learn about HPD and talk to and warn high school kids in a big auditorium about it. LOL.

"Well, this venting helps. Thanks for listening/reading."

Yep. No problem once again my friend.

P.S: Hey So What? are you Blue Phoenix from SoSuave?
You sound a lot like him lol.

If you are thanks for all your posts on that site about HPD.

You really helped me a ton moving on.

If you're not him you're still pretty cool regardless lmao.

I felt wrong too my man. Its called projection. She and I were always very sexual when talking with eachother. As it ended she made me feel like the pervert and the bad guy using projection which is part of their disorders.

Yeah me too. My creature initiated sexuality (talk, flashing me and others in public, fondling me in public, etc.) - ok fine, exciting, provacative - but when I took the lead, she occasionally got offended.

I noticed her sexual overatures decreased significantly over a month ago as she started cheating on me regularly with the same vagrant. This was a sign to me somthing was up. Boy, was I smart or what (being sarcastic here!) Ha! But I do remember things even further on (two months ago or more) when she cheated on me - can't even describe them they are too shameful and hurting. Man oh man. I didn't suspect then but now they make perfect sense.

Oh they know intellectually that what they do will hurt people an incredible amount but remember people are objects to them. If you were working on a paper for school or something else and you broke your pencil by pressing it too hard against the paper due to your frustration are you going to feel bad about breaking that pencil breaking that object?

Yes. This whole concept of me being an object no different than a refrigerator to fulfill their needs - to be their supply - is really hitting home and makes things easier to accept.

It doesn't matter how awesome a guy is, how pimpin etc. These HPD chicks literally need the thrill, drama and excitement someone new brings to them.

Unbelievable. She used to tell me how boring she was and how she would stay in on nights and watch movies and no one was asking her out on dates. In fact, I didn't notice her inviting a lot of people over to her place (she lives above me) so this seemed believable to me. Is this consistent w/the HPD need to go out and seek attention and get new people? If so, why didn't she do this a whole lot more?

One thing that messed with my mind throughout the relationship - her actions and events surrounding them were not consistent with her words (past or present).

Is that a lesson learned or what? Actions speak louder than words!

In fact, I remember telling her that on a couple of occasions and of course she reacted angrily.

She is 35 (almost 36) and has never been married and I thought early on in the relationship she was set in her ways and did not like to change - for anyone. A friend even pointed this out to me. Very intransigent, obdurate nature. She was in a 5 yr long term relationship that ended in 2000 that she ended (so she says) and dated a few people since then (so she says) for short periods of time - 3-5 mos.

We spent New Years together last year at the House of Blues - boy was it a great concert and time - and she said it was her best New Year's ever.

The start of the relationship was great - normal it seemed. I had high hopes. But she would do little things - like introduce herself to men she didn't need to in front of me, etc. I thought that weird and somewhat disrespectful in the context it was done (i.e. to a waiter, a bouncer, some neighbor who I didn't even introduce myself to that helped me get my car out of the snow). Never introduced herself to women. Hmmmmm.

"I mean, she's an intelligent person - lawyer, 7 yrs college, professional. And successful at what she does. She is a litigator so the arguing portion of her personality is leveraged there.

Think about how much work a lawyer has to do of reading and such and you'll begin to see a big reason your HPD is a lawyer along with that just being a career choice an HPD would thrive in and the other reason is because its something she could do to distract herself ie all that reading people in that profession have to do along with dealing with their clients and cases. Distraction, distraction, distraction!

This is a very interesting point and if I were a cartoon, you guys would see a little lightbulb pop up over my head as I made yet another realization!

Of course! Distraction and new small tasks to do ALL the time! New cases! New people to depose for statements. New people to deal with! Places to drive to break up the tedium of a day in the office. All consistent with her need for constant newness.

But other aspects of her life didn't need that - she had two jobs since graduating college (not a lot of job changing like it says in the HPD literature), consistent small group of friends mainly female, lived a routine. She did some risky things like sky diving, drove agressively, drugs (consistent with an HPD's creature ease at doing morally unacceptable or illegal things).

Also its interesting what you say about her not being able to commit. I talked to one of my HPDs past victims I found out about after she was done with me and we compared notes and he told me quote "she doesn't know what she wants or who the hell she is" and "she's never followed through on anything."

Wow. I remember saying to my HPD creature a couple of times when things started to go bad in the summer "What are you looking for in life?" "What are so you angry about?" "Why are you so dissatisfied?"

Exaclty like that fella you spoke with. However, my HPD creature was pretty reliable in terms of work and showing up always and on times for dates. She backed out of picking me up from the airport once which ticked me off a little and looking back at it now was probably because she had a liason set up. Pure speculation on my part though but you would think a girlfriend would be anxious to see someone getting back from a business trip and it was totally out of the ordinary for her to "work late" as she claimed.

This guy was screwed over by her even worse than I was. He was friends with her for 9 months then she conned him into a relationship which lasted about 4 months and yes she cheated on him of course but anyway they were talking marriage and saying they loved eachother and all of that and getting what she wanted ie him telling her he loved her for a time she then callously cut off all contact with this guy and moved onto her next victim who is unfortunately making this post informing you of this right now.

Geez. I feel for you and that dude. My HPD creature said the same thing "I love you! I want to marry you! I want to spend the rest of my life with you! You are the best thing that ever happened to me!" Ad infinitum.

Uninformed. Not stupid. Remember that.

Yeah, but thanks to people like you I'm one [b]informed , albeit angry, guy, and I'll always be on the lookout for these types of gutter trash!

I mean what average person knows about the existance of personality disorders?

You are not kidding. I had no clue! After the psychologist I talked to suggested/diagnosed this in her almost immediately after I described her to him and I started reading about it, it was as if a 12 ton elephant that had been sitting on my brain was lifted from it! I had been constantly asking, why, why, what did I do to make her do this????

I had no idea things like histrionic personality disorder existed before this chick came along that ruined my life for a time.

Well, we are more knowledgeable and better for it. How long would you say your life was ruined? I'm going on three weeks now but this whole HPD issue is making this a whole of a hell lot easier to accept and I'm starting to crawl out from the abyss.

Winston Churchill, in the darkest days of WWII when Nazi Germany was running rampant over and conquering countries left and right, said the following after the first Allied/British battle victory at El Alamein in 1942:

This is not the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning.

I feel that way now. It's the end of the beginning for me. I'm starting to be able to concentrate at work again and when I'm alone. Basically up to this weekend, when I was alone, I would always think about things and get angry/sad/etc. That was the worst. But I'm managing that better now (mainly by trying to keep busy/occupied) and by knowing she has a serious mental illness. Relief is replacing that. She isn't anywhere near as appealing as she first was. She's starting to be repulsive to me.

After I reach a couple of goals I've set I'll be further along. Don't get me wrong, it still hurts, a little, but when I think about her positive qualities (sexy, funny, spontaneous, materially generous, smart, observant), I realize many, if not all, of them can be found in normal, honest, caring, unselfish, empathetic, considerate, patient women! Just got smoke 'em out and lay some of that charm on 'em. Haha.

I'm just angry at myself for letting myself be disrespected, made a fool of, manipulated, embarassed, played and humiliated. And sacrifice my interests and relationships w/other people to the point I made her the entire focus of my life. And I mean focus. I hate knowing she (and the third floor asshole) feel some form of accomplishment over that about how they deceived me. That burns me. But I just gotta stop thinking about it and even now, the burn is a little less. Hopefully it will approach apathy soon.

It helps tremendously to hear family and friends tell me she was psycho as well as you guys on this board do the same. I just wish she could somehow know this and feel the pain that I felt as a result of her actions. I know, I know - not too forgiving and all but what can I say.

Its exciting for the HPD and NPD to take a relationship as far as it will go. Engagements, weddings etc bring with them drama and excitement as does the subsequent divorce. Sick, sick, sick and no she can't reason. These people have difficulty with logic.

You are spot on. I would apply logic to her thinking/arguments and when I trapped her she wouldn't acknowledge it - she would just veer off on a tangent dismissing the conclusion like I hadn't proven anything! I would have to bring her back to the topic at hand but rarely could. She just could not stand to be wrong or have someone prove her wrong through logic.

Jeez. What a life I/we would have had. Why on Earth would I/we think I/we would want that? Thank God this is over - for you and me!

Perhaps this was part of her lawyer/litigator training. She is very, very good at her profession. Yikes. What a nightmare. Think about that. An HPD litigator. Scarry. I hope none of you run into her or you are in big trouble.

LOL, an HPD be honest? You must be kidding me. Part of all Cluster B personality disorder traits are pathological lying. Sometimes these people lie consciously and other times they just can't help themselves.

She was so damn good at it but I was no dummy and was catching her. But for some damn reason, I didn't hold her accountable. I reasoned, again, she was insecure and it was her way of trying to deal with her shortcomings and maybe she was a little intimidated that I would hold her accountable or scared or something. So I overlooked it. That is just plain wrong on my part. I should have run away, not walked, but I just never placed a hugely negative value on her lying until I suspected cheating.

I do remember early on in the relationship she herself commenting that one of her friends told her it was good she was living above me 'cause she couldn't get away with little white lies. And I said, somewhat alarmed/surprised, "what do you mean?" and she said "oh, things like I don't want to go out tonight b/c I am sick" or something like that.

I was so stupid 'cause I liked/loved wanted it to work so bad I dismissed this character flaw!

In her disordered mind she is the most important person and you are not important. Also they are very shallow people without a lot of depth of character so you can't really expect her to say much worthwhile anyway even if she were to try to repair things with you in a mature way. LOL, what I just said is impossible. They can't be mature or relate in a mature way.

So true. She was incredibly shallow - no depth. Nothing. Everything was face value. No exploration of ideas, events, deep thinking. And this was something I thought I WANTED in a woman. Jeez. I gotta find out why I compromised SO much of what I wanted in a woman (as well as my own behavior) and idolized and loved this creature.

"And she always seemed to turn things around - if I brought up any issue, she attacked me instead of trying to resolve it together."

Yep, more projection my friend.

I'm really not a fan of this projection. Haha.

Ha. Seems if our HPD's were to compete for a role in Hamlet over who could play the more convincing "wretched queen" it'd be one hell of a decision for the casting crew to make. Excellent liars and actresses are these.

Isn't it just unbelievable to think a person can be wired this way? They can act this way? It is so illogical - that is why I couldn't accept it and why internally, in my mind, these last 3-4 months I was so tortured and concluded I just had to be wrong b/c no person is so illogical, especially a highly educated, successful (job) one.

As I stated before, her words were often not consistent w/her actions but the total idiocy of her possibly cheating on me days after being engaged or during the engagement process was just to illogical to accept for me, despite the reality and all the signs pointing to that very fact!

"She did buy me things - shirts, watches, cologne - and paid for a lot of meals. But that's easy to do IMO and self-sacrifice - doing something you don't want to do or giving up something truly meaningful to you - she rarely did. Oh, she cooked occasionally (maybe 5 times?) in the 11 mos. relationship."

Ask yourself why she bought those things for you though? What were the reasons behind it?? Certainly not to make you happy because she really cares about you but to keep you under her spell because she was still getting something from you. Like I said before they are selfish and consciousless children in adult bodies.

Yep. She conciously or unconciously used those fairly easy actions to keep me interested/placated. I need to find out why I equated that with true caring/empathy/love. I failed there.

Its like Hannibal Lecter said to Clarice in the Silence of the Lambs "Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing, ask: What is it in itself what is its nature?" The woman you were involved with has histrionic personality disorder that is what she is in herself and what her nature consists of is manipulating people ie objects to get what she needs from them. You can't say well she did a good thing for me here and think in that instance she was a good person because what she did was simply a disgusting manipulation tactic and not a genuine act of a person in love.

Well, at least I can say the beatch didn't eat my liver with a can of fava beans and some Chiante. Haha.

But yes - nothing she did can be construed as having a purpose other than serving her own needs. Nothing. Not the nice cards she sent me early in the relationship, mainly after the first cheating incident to keep me around. Not the nice Christmas gift last year she made some effort to get. So sad and just so contrary to decent human nature.

I really, fundamentally I suppose, wanted her to value me - to appreciate me as a human being - and for some reason, I valued myself based on how she valued me. I.e. I derived my own self-worth by how she treated me. I somehow confused these trite actions to mean way more than they did. Yep - gotta figure out why I did all this. Before her, I had a very solid sense of self-worth and was self-confident.

"She was funny, spontaneous, exciting, provative (sexually - of course I now understand that to be an HPD sign) and somewhat decent in bed.

Honest, integrity, self-sacrifice, courage, etc. - all missing I see now in retrospect."

It hurts reading this man because its like we were involved with the same woman and in a way we were albeit not the same person.

Wow.

I initially thought the girl I was involved with was the nicest, sweetest person I ever met in my life and I thought she probably had all those qualities you just mentioned but no they were all missing I see in retrospect. In fact I'll go so far as to say my HPD and all HPD's (who don't get treatment) are cowards.

Yes - cowards, hiding behind some facade! They hide because they are children, they can't face/understand/accept internally the difficult realities in life, and perhaps the most difficult one of all -

admitting we made a mistake

That's tough to do and these HPD creatures just cannot do that. They may say they made a mistake but always for their own gain (i.e. to win me back after she cheated on me) - they don't mean it. She said she felt horrible when she saw my pain wracked face but did she mean it? Doubtful. She cried over it and made all these pitiful sounds in messages so I thought she was sincerely feeling horrible but did she truly, truly feel it? No. I believe she felt sorry for HERSELF, not for making me feel terrible.

And then a few days later was saying she didn't remember anything so she couldn't admit to doing anything. Haha. So she got over the pain of making me feel tortured pretty damn fast and moved right on to twisting events in her mind to surpress the feelings she couldn't deal with!

Probably the same in your case.

They lack all of the qualities and characteristics we should really value in a woman. Somehow we valued sexuality, spontaneity, excitement, gregarious and outgoing behavior, a bit of charm perhaps, material generosity, and humor over those more important traits. Why? That's my mistake. I gotta fix that.

You say sweetness. How was she sweet?

Truly loving someone is one of the strongest most courageous things a person can do in life.

That's really a great statement, and if I were a sentimental, chick-flick loving type of guy, I might have cried. But seriously, it's a great statement.

"She was the biggest flirt. She would do the greeting kiss the second or third time after meeting someone (a bouncer at a club for instance)."

<terrible cheating acts deleted> Who knows what else she did that wasn't caught. *Vomits*

Dude - I just vomitted as well. How horrible and awful for you. I feel your pain.

After dealing with my HPD I get the impression that everyone in her apartment complex with a pulse (as she's bisexual) has had a piece of her.

When did you start to mistrust her? Why did you continue the relationship if you felt mistrust?

I must have been crazy. After my creature cheated on me the first time - I took her back. I told NO ONE. That probably screwed me up just as much b/c I internalized the pain and had no one to talk to. I told no one because I knew I really really loved/liked her and if anyone knew (family/friends) they would have immediately told me to end the relationship. But I was already thinking marriage with this slut!

Of course my family and friends know now and they all say that's where I made my mistake - to not immediately end the relationship then. Sometimes the right decisions in life are much harder to make than the easier ones but we must make them. Yeah, I would have had pain then missing her companionship but think of all the pain it would have staved off. My bad.

Maybe some way to sue them at least or make them do community service. Maybe force them to learn about HPD and talk to and warn high school kids in a big auditorium about it. LOL.

Personally, I'd like to torture them mentally so they feel the same amount of pain we felt. Maybe it would help re-wire their brains.

That's the big thing for me - it is just killing me that she is not being held accountable for her actions. She's got herself and all her family/friends believing I am some psychotic controlling, abusive, jealous idiot. Aw, who cares though. I do believe her father is on to her though - he suspects something. I guess that's some consolation but who cares at this point.

You guys are great. I'm gonna post another thread to explore what we need to change in ourselves to ensure we never get suckered again. I.e. why were we so taken by these deceitful, albeit beautiful creatures.

Hang in there!

So what? wrote:This is a good discussion!

See what I found on that "sosuave" about Histrionic:http://rapidshare.de/files/7692964/Tom_Leykis_2003-03-11b__From_The_Tom_Leykis_Glossary__AW.mp3.html

More on the serial flirt:

1. http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi/36_dating_girl.html
2. http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi/26_dating_girl.html

This is a good forum!

Thanks for the links! Good stuff. Askmen.com is a great site and provides invaluable dating tips as well as fashion tips.

Jeez - do I have a penchant for stating the obvious or what?

"Yeah me too. My creature initiated sexuality (talk, flashing me and others in public, fondling me in public, etc.) - ok fine, exciting, provacative - but when I took the lead, she occasionally got offended."

Yep, as actresses HPD's are the only ones who get to act. You can't. Big no no with them.

"I noticed her sexual overatures decreased significantly over a month ago as she started cheating on me regularly with the same vagrant. This was a sign to me somthing was up. Boy, was I smart or what (being sarcastic here!) Ha! But I do remember things even further on (two months ago or more) when she cheated on me - can't even describe them they are too shameful and hurting. Man oh man. I didn't suspect then but now they make perfect sense."

The HPD document says "pathology increases with the level of intimacy in relationships" (lol @ intimacy with HPDs btw) or some such so the more serious you two became the more of the cheating awful mentally 2-year old selfish heartless HPD creature emerged! You were uninformed so you didn't know how to make her crazy over you again and stop many (not all of course) of her relations with other guys. Its so simple too. Just don't give her as much attention as she's used to and she'll be all over you again in no time. *Slaps forhead* Oh sweet knowledge where were you when I and Chris needed you?? LOL.

Something else I read on them says they like to form a parental relationship with one particular guy and then date other guys. We were their surrogate daddys lol lol lol.

"Unbelievable. She used to tell me how boring she was and how she would stay in on nights and watch movies and no one was asking her out on dates. In fact, I didn't notice her inviting a lot of people over to her place (she lives above me) so this seemed believable to me. Is this consistent w/the HPD need to go out and seek attention and get new people? If so, why didn't she do this a whole lot more?

One thing that messed with my mind throughout the relationship - her actions and events surrounding them were not consistent with her words (past or present).

Is that a lesson learned or what? Actions speak louder than words!

In fact, I remember telling her that on a couple of occasions and of course she reacted angrily."

Lawl, they really hate being called out on their bull ****.

The same way most likely that you and I would really hate our microwaves malfunctioning when we really wanted to eat that meatloaf tv dinner mmm mmm lmao.

Oh and about the consistancy well my therapist told me these things move in cycles. My HPD's negative affect as you know from all her bad behaviour is depression which she was diagnosed with so I believe she would go through those episodes at times and there would be long periods where she would not mess with any guys thankfully (this is what I heard about before I even got involved with her). Also HPD's are acting all the time, always on so to speak and as you can imagine that can get tiring so for yours if she doesn't have depression also she was probably just taking a break those times and recharging her evil HPD batteries before going out and manipulating more men into an unhealthy going nowhere love obsession to get her sick attention fix. I noticed when my HPD and I were with other people at times they would ask why she suddenly stopped talking for a long time and seemed down. It was because all that being on time all that acting was wearing her out. I didn't know that at the time. LOL..

"She is 35 (almost 36) and has never been married and I thought early on in the relationship she was set in her ways and did not like to change - for anyone. A friend even pointed this out to me. Very intransigent, obdurate nature. She was in a 5 yr long term relationship that ended in 2000 that she ended (so she says) and dated a few people since then (so she says) for short periods of time - 3-5 mos."

Yep. More from the HPD document...

"Individuals with HPD may decompensate in later adult years due to the cumulative effects of: 1) the incapacity to pursue personal, professional, cultural, and social values; 2) the frequent disruption of and failure in intimate relationships; and 3) identity diffusion. These factors interfere with ordinary social learning and consequences grow more severe with age. The usual course of untreated HPD is precarious as life opportunities are missed or destroyed (Kernberg, 1992, p. 65)."

These girls of ours had the opportunity to be with two outstanding guys (thats us I think? lol!) but their disorders effectively destroyed those great life opportunities!

"We spent New Years together last year at the House of Blues - boy was it a great concert and time - and she said it was her best New Year's ever."

She may have actually been telling the truth there. HPD's do tell the truth sometimes but they lie so much and are so good at it that its impossible to tell. The only thing they typically tell the truth about everytime is the abuse they suffered if any as a child or young adult.

"The start of the relationship was great - normal it seemed. I had high hopes. But she would do little things - like introduce herself to men she didn't need to in front of me, etc. I thought that weird and somewhat disrespectful in the context it was done (i.e. to a waiter, a bouncer, some neighbor who I didn't even introduce myself to that helped me get my car out of the snow). Never introduced herself to women. Hmmmmm."

Yeah you just made me remember that my HPD was at first great. She was talking about herself and asking me questions about myself etc but then she started to talk about her guy friends to me many of whom also are my friends and she'd tell me how great they are in ways that kind of disturbed me as in like she was interested in them. She'd be like oh he's so amazing and I'm thinking to myself ooooooookkkkkkkk and....duh I know this. He wouldn't be my friend if he wasn't.LOL!!

""I mean, she's an intelligent person - lawyer, 7 yrs college, professional. And successful at what she does. She is a litigator so the arguing portion of her personality is leveraged there."

Well thats what HPD's are the masters of the talking bull ****.

"But other aspects of her life didn't need that - she had two jobs since graduating college (not a lot of job changing like it says in the HPD literature), consistent small group of friends mainly female, lived a routine. She did some risky things like sky diving, drove agressively, drugs (consistent with an HPD's creature ease at doing morally unacceptable or illegal things)."

Hmmm well either those jobs provided her a lot of new and fresh excitements somehow or it simply goes back to what I said about not all HPD's being alike.

"Wow. I remember saying to my HPD creature a couple of times when things started to go bad in the summer "What are you looking for in life?" "What are so you angry about?" "Why are you so dissatisfied?"

This is interesting. I only noticed how angry my HPD was after it ended and I had time to think about things. I thought after learning all I could about this disorder that her anger was probably from all the abuse she suffered as a child (repressed you know and vented by her getting rid of guys who love her as a kind of pay back) and maybe a lot of it is but since reading what you said I wonder if the disorder itself causes the anger? Like perhaps subconsciously they want to be good people, have a good life, and feel loved but they always ruin it then get depressed and wonder why things fell apart for them. Just a thought.

"Exaclty like that fella you spoke with. However, my HPD creature was pretty reliable in terms of work and showing up always and on times for dates. She backed out of picking me up from the airport once which ticked me off a little and looking back at it now was probably because she had a liason set up. Pure speculation on my part though but you would think a girlfriend would be anxious to see someone getting back from a business trip and it was totally out of the ordinary for her to "work late" as she claimed."

Yes definitely (about a normal girlfriend wanting to see her boyfriend again after a long time) and it could be. It could also be the alternative though ie they hate having expectations put on them of any kind by their significant others. Just goes back to us being objects again and an object should serve its master's needs not the other way around right??

I mean what average person knows about the existance of personality disorders?

"You are not kidding. I had no clue! After the psychologist I talked to suggested/diagnosed this in her almost immediately after I described her to him and I started reading about it, it was as if a 12 ton elephant that had been sitting on my brain was lifted from it! I had been constantly asking, why, why, what did I do to make her do this????"

Oprah! you better do a damned show on this disorder someday!! It is a ratings goldmine!!! but more importantly will save guys like Chris and I a ton of pain and may even help many of these HPD women get treatment either self referral or their family taking action and forcing them into it.

There was a guy on this forum a while ago diagnosed with HPD and he felt really bad about it and that he might never know who he really is. The good news though is he will as he's getting treatment for it. Its HPDs like this who have my full respect. Taking action like this not only helps them but prevents them from making future victims who in his case would be women. As corny as it sounds I salute every single HPD out there who takes action to overcome their disorder.

"Well, we are more knowledgeable and better for it. How long would you say your life was ruined? I'm going on three weeks now but this whole HPD issue is making this a whole of a hell lot easier to accept and I'm starting to crawl out from the abyss."

Well I pmed you about it but for the board it was 4 months and I'm now in the 4th month and I really feel like I'm recovering now finally thankfully! A guy I talked to who was manipulated into a relationship by a borderline chick exhibiting heavy histrionic traits to get him to fall in love with her was ruined for three years ie he couldn't even look at another woman in such ways after their relationship fell apart. It will not be the same for me but thats the kind of long term damage these personality disordered chicks can do to their victims they get so thoroughly in our heads and then screw us over one way or another for no explainable reason. At least until we find out they have these personality disorders anyway.

"Winston Churchill, in the darkest days of WWII when Nazi Germany was running rampant over and conquering countries left and right, said the following after the first Allied/British battle victory at El Alamein in 1942:

This is not the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning.

I feel that way now. It's the end of the beginning for me. I'm starting to be able to concentrate at work again and when I'm alone. Basically up to this weekend, when I was alone, I would always think about things and get angry/sad/etc. That was the worst. But I'm managing that better now (mainly by trying to keep busy/occupied) and by knowing she has a serious mental illness. Relief is replacing that. She isn't anywhere near as appealing as she first was. She's starting to be repulsive to me.

After I reach a couple of goals I've set I'll be further along. Don't get me wrong, it still hurts, a little, but when I think about her positive qualities (sexy, funny, spontaneous, materially generous, smart, observant), I realize many, if not all, of them can be found in normal, honest, caring, unselfish, empathetic, considerate, patient women! Just got smoke 'em out and lay some of that charm on 'em. Haha."

Good stuff man. As for me I don't feel repulsed by my HPD. Just her lack of empathy. More than anything I feel sorry for her because nothing will ever work for her in life until she submits to treatment.

"I'm just angry at myself for letting myself be disrespected, made a fool of, manipulated, embarassed, played and humiliated. And sacrifice my interests and relationships w/other people to the point I made her the entire focus of my life. And I mean focus. I hate knowing she (and the third floor asshole) feel some form of accomplishment over that about how they deceived me. That burns me. But I just gotta stop thinking about it and even now, the burn is a little less. Hopefully it will approach apathy soon."

Oh it will and remember whenever the bad thoughts come just remind yourself that this piece of garbage guy she's with now will inevitably be hurt very badly by her as he will most likely fall for her and then she will turn on him as the HPD's just love to do to those who love them.

"It helps tremendously to hear family and friends tell me she was psycho as well as you guys on this board do the same. I just wish she could somehow know this and feel the pain that I felt as a result of her actions. I know, I know - not too forgiving and all but what can I say."

Nah man I understand completely yet again. For a long time I just wished my HPD could of felt the love I had for her as then I know she wouldn't have been able to do the horrible things she's done to me. In fact the last guy she victimized told me that a time that he went off on her she was crying hysterically and he felt bad yet was somehow satisfied by her tears. A feeling. Any feeling is what we want from these soulless girls we loved so much.

"She was so damn good at it but I was no dummy and was catching her. But for some damn reason, I didn't hold her accountable. I reasoned, again, she was insecure and it was her way of trying to deal with her shortcomings and maybe she was a little intimidated that I would hold her accountable or scared or something. So I overlooked it. That is just plain wrong on my part. I should have run away, not walked, but I just never placed a hugely negative value on her lying until I suspected cheating.

I do remember early on in the relationship she herself commenting that one of her friends told her it was good she was living above me 'cause she couldn't get away with little white lies. And I said, somewhat alarmed/surprised, "what do you mean?" and she said "oh, things like I don't want to go out tonight b/c I am sick" or something like that.

I was so stupid 'cause I liked/loved wanted it to work so bad I dismissed this character flaw!"

Yeah we're so convinced we've met the perfect girl because of the initial dealings that its hard for the truth to sink in often until its too late and the damage has been done.

We just don't want to let her go even though she never existed.

"So true. She was incredibly shallow - no depth. Nothing. Everything was face value. No exploration of ideas, events, deep thinking. And this was something I thought I WANTED in a woman. Jeez. I gotta find out why I compromised SO much of what I wanted in a woman (as well as my own behavior) and idolized and loved this creature."

Well I think you and I do want those qualities in a woman its just that the HPD is just so much more exciting than any other woman we've ever dealt with its intoxicating. While we both want the good qualities in a woman that you mentioned excitement in a significant other for anyone I think would be a hard proposition to turn down or maybe thats just us. Maybe thats what we really want out of a woman. For her to be exciting. Oh my but my head is spinning now. LMAO!!

"Isn't it just unbelievable to think a person can be wired this way? They can act this way? It is so illogical - that is why I couldn't accept it and why internally, in my mind, these last 3-4 months I was so tortured and concluded I just had to be wrong b/c no person is so illogical, especially a highly educated, successful (job) one.

As I stated before, her words were often not consistent w/her actions but the total idiocy of her possibly cheating on me days after being engaged or during the engagement process was just to illogical to accept for me, despite the reality and all the signs pointing to that very fact!"

Yeah this is why its taken me so long to get over my HPD. She literally turned how I viewed reality upside down I guess you could say. I've had to struggle to integrate that people like this exist in my worldview.

"Yep. She conciously or unconciously used those fairly easy actions to keep me interested/placated. I need to find out why I equated that with true caring/empathy/love. I failed there."

Oh no you didn't fail in this instance. Buying things for your loved one is a perfectly legitimate way to show you care. So in this instance you were just uninformed once again of HPD and why she really did this stuff for you.

"I really, fundamentally I suppose, wanted her to value me - to appreciate me as a human being - and for some reason, I valued myself based on how she valued me. I.e. I derived my own self-worth by how she treated me. I somehow confused these trite actions to mean way more than they did. Yep - gotta figure out why I did all this. Before her, I had a very solid sense of self-worth and was self-confident."

Same here. Its simply because they reflected idealized versions of ourselves back at us which produces the soulmate effect/lie which made us feel one with them so much that we became bonded to their opinions. Oh and of course your loss of self worth/confidence goes back to what the HPD document says about them stealing your self esteem, etc.

"Yes - cowards, hiding behind some facade! They hide because they are children, they can't face/understand/accept internally the difficult realities in life, and perhaps the most difficult one of all -

admitting we made a mistake

That's tough to do and these HPD creatures just cannot do that. They may say they made a mistake but always for their own gain (i.e. to win me back after she cheated on me) - they don't mean it. She said she felt horrible when she saw my pain wracked face but did she mean it? Doubtful. She cried over it and made all these pitiful sounds in messages so I thought she was sincerely feeling horrible but did she truly, truly feel it? No. I believe she felt sorry for HERSELF, not for making me feel terrible.

And then a few days later was saying she didn't remember anything so she couldn't admit to doing anything. Haha. So she got over the pain of making me feel tortured pretty damn fast and moved right on to twisting events in her mind to surpress the feelings she couldn't deal with!"

Well another sad thing with them is I read that they can feel bad for us (I know and after all that lack of empathy stuff we talked about lol) but the thing is its only for a few minutes/ for the moment etc, then they quickly rewire their thoughts that you were somehow in the wrong or someother lie they tell themselves and they can then go back to thinking of themselves as perfect and never making mistakes.

"They lack all of the qualities and characteristics we should really value in a woman. Somehow we valued sexuality, spontaneity, excitement, gregarious and outgoing behavior, a bit of charm perhaps, material generosity, and humor over those more important traits. Why? That's my mistake. I gotta fix that."

Its the hypnotism of their entire being man. The beauty, the lovely lies they tell us about how much they're into us all of that is just so flattering plus they're just so exciting. The more I think about it maybe its not that we value the other women less its just the HPD's make us feel so special and so loved and so much like we met the woman we've been searching for our entire lives initially that really who can turn that down? When the bad behaviour starts we keep hoping the woman who was initially presented to us will come back like a junkie searching for their first high each new time they shoot up again. A high that never comes.

"You say sweetness. How was she sweet?"

Thank you for asking me this. When I read the words it hit me like I ran into a brick wall.

She really wasn't. Her actions didn't match those of a truly sweet person.

When I said she was sweet I guess I simply thought that because her voice was so sweet and she'd say my name and talk to me sometimes in such an overly sweet manner it could send someone with diabetes into diabetic shock lol.

"When did you start to mistrust her? Why did you continue the relationship if you felt mistrust?"

I was just hopelessly in love with her I guess like you with yours. I started to mistrust her when I caught her in lies to answer that question.
Oh and when she started to distance herself from me I told her it was ok if she was going through too much trouble at the moment (supposedly with her dad) for us to just go back to being friends she put an end to that and reassured me of her feelings for me and then about two weeks later on my birthday she stuck the final knife in my back and ended it so cruel and cold heartedly when I asked her to come hang out with words along the lines of this "I think you only like me for my looks you never gave me the time of day before I know this may seem cold hearted but I just don't want to deal with this anymore." All projection bull**** of course as she only values herself for her looks.

"I must have been crazy. After my creature cheated on me the first time - I took her back. I told NO ONE. That probably screwed me up just as much b/c I internalized the pain and had no one to talk to. I told no one because I knew I really really loved/liked her and if anyone knew (family/friends) they would have immediately told me to end the relationship. But I was already thinking marriage with this slut!

Of course my family and friends know now and they all say that's where I made my mistake - to not immediately end the relationship then. Sometimes the right decisions in life are much harder to make than the easier ones but we must make them. Yeah, I would have had pain then missing her companionship but think of all the pain it would have staved off. My bad."

Yeah, its so easy for people looking from the outside to say what we should do but actually doing it is much much harder. Thats some of the bad a good thing like love brings with it when applied to someone whom its dangerous to give ones heart to.

"Personally, I'd like to torture them mentally so they feel the same amount of pain we felt. Maybe it would help re-wire their brains."

LOL, for me I wouldn't go that far but I would be extremely satisfied if all HPD's could be forced into treatment with a therapist that actually cares like the one Robin Williams portrayed in "Good Will Hunting". The part where they were on the park bench and Robin William's character goes off on a diatribe towards Will was such a powerful moment. A true tear jerker. LOL..

"That's the big thing for me - it is just killing me that she is not being held accountable for her actions. She's got herself and all her family/friends believing I am some psychotic controlling, abusive, jealous idiot. Aw, who cares though. I do believe her father is on to her though - he suspects something. I guess that's some consolation but who cares at this point."

Maybe one of the last things you could do is inform her father of HPD. Print up the HPD document if you can and give it to him.

"You guys are great. I'm gonna post another thread to explore what we need to change in ourselves to ensure we never get suckered again. I.e. why were we so taken by these deceitful, albeit beautiful creatures."

Sounds like a good idea!

"Hang in there!"

LOL, a character says that in MGS2!

Will do.

Congratulations, KontrollerX. The following statement has won you "Post of the Year" on the Histrionic Personality Disorder forum!

they hate having expectations put on them of any kind by their significant others.

This, my friend, is the key element of my psycho's disordered personality and a governing aspect of her behavior. She absolutely could not tolerate anyone, let alone me, ostensibly the person she loved and respected, place any expectations on her whatsoever regarding her dysfunctional behavior. I had to accept her behavior without question, without protestation and without any expectation she would even try to alter her deviant behavior in the slightest degree to address any issues in the relationship.

God, what a nightmare to be with a person like this! I'm so glad this relationship is over. I can't even imagine going through life and encountering it's challenges and experiencing the really tough times with her. She would have knifed me in the back at a moment's notice to suit her own selfish nature. Commitment? Loyality? Ideas and convictions without meaning to these creatures.

Just goes back to us being objects again and an object should serve its master's needs not the other way around right??

Another hum-dinger of a point.

The HPD document says "pathology increases with the level of intimacy in relationships" (lol @ intimacy with HPDs btw) or some such so the more serious you two became the more of the cheating awful mentally 2-year old selfish heartless HPD creature emerged!

Definitely consistent w/my creature's behavior.

Yes, good point. In retrospect, I really didn't see any sincerity from my creature that suggested intimacy. It was almost "businesslike emotion" devoid of real feeling.

Something else I read on them says they like to form a parental relationship with one particular guy and then date other guys. We were their surrogate daddys lol lol lol.

Unreal. That's not too far fetched in my case and seems possible.

Oh and about the consistancy well my therapist told me these things move in cycles. My HPD's negative affect as you know from all her bad behaviour is depression which she was diagnosed with so I believe she would go through those episodes at times and there would be long periods where she would not mess with any guys thankfully (this is what I heard about before I even got involved with her).

Interesting. Did you suspect any depression at the time?

My psycho didn't have depression. She had a typically positive attitude unless I questioned her about something or brought something up to talk about she wouldn't want to (like strange behaviors of hers.) It got to the point I was walking on eggshells, very careful about what I brought up to discuss regarding her behavior b/c I knew if I did I would be in for a battle royale. Lovely. What a relationship. What a horrible way to exist. I was totally in her power. How sad and disappointing.

"Individuals with HPD may decompensate in later adult years due to the cumulative effects of: 1) the incapacity to pursue personal, professional, cultural, and social values; 2) the frequent disruption of and failure in intimate relationships; and 3) identity diffusion. These factors interfere with ordinary social learning and consequences grow more severe with age. The usual course of untreated HPD is precarious as life opportunities are missed or destroyed (Kernberg, 1992, p. 65)."

Yep. Explains a lot. This 35 going on 36 year old is going nowhere with her life. No goals. Not improving herself in any way. No activities. No volunteer work. No organizations. No organized sports. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Sad.

These girls of ours had the opportunity to be with two outstanding guys (thats us I think? lol!) but their disorders effectively destroyed those great life opportunities!

Damn straight. It's just so crazy. That's the statement of the century. Ha! Another example of stating the obvious!

I was driving home from my sister's today and seeing all of these houses brimming w/people and decorated for Christmas (yeah, they are starting early out here!) and I just got really angry and started swearing out loud at what a stupid tramp she was for treating me like an object and throwing away a future that could have been great, if she were freaking normal!

Well, now I realize the relationship was so flawed and she disrespected me so much it would have gotten worse and the future would have been a disaster. Some things she did to me:

- told me to "Shut up!" w/disdain in her voice in front of her friends beause I dared to talk while she did; did this twice; I've never let anyone treat me with such disrespect in my life! If someone did this to me at work or on the soccer field I would have crucified them. This alone should have been reason for "relationship termination!"

If I had any balls I would have just walked out and left her but I didn't say anything but brought up the topic later and of course she tried to justify it by lieing and saying she did it "jokingly"; Yeah, "Come on honey, you know people say that jokingly to each other." Uh, no, I don't think so, especially when I detected the disdain and irritation in her voice. No joking there! What a piece of trash but I was weak to put up with it.

- called me a f***er b/c of a driving accident that almost happened that was not my fault in anyway; I kicked her out of the car but we got back together 30 minutes later; she apologized but again put the focus back on poor her by saying "How do you think I felt when you kicked me out of my car"; me, the doormat, again put this out of my mind

- embarrased me by storming out of a bar and calling one of my friends a fat "f***" b/c I dare protested she was fawning all over her "best male work colleague" and paying little attention to me (after we were bf/gf for three months!), which I and this guy noticed; of course, she apologized but was angry I acted this way calling me jealous and insecure; again I believed I was in the right but accepted it and said let's just move on w/the relationship; her spell/intoxication had me like a chump

- incidents of her flashing people at parties, particularly the guy she cheated on me the first time (who is married to her best friend) - toally disrespecting me by doing it; me seeing it and then her completely lieing and denying it when I said "WTF!"; again, I dismissed this and didn't resolve the issue

- me sick and not wanting to stay out w/her loser boss and a couple of people she hardly knew at a bar; badgered me at home in my own place about not respecting her feelings and making her look bad in front of her boss because I wanted to go but didn't want to announce to everyone I was sick; who cares why we need to go? I was her boyfriend of 6 months! who's more important to her? this chump boss is someone she supposedly didn't even like/respect and we never, ever were out with him before; kicked her out of my place but again made up few hours later and again I dismissed the issue and left it unresolved

- other incidents

The pattern:

1. She does something I think in appropriate (and most other people on the planet would as well)

2. I say something (later on I surpressed saying anything) only to meet with her fierce anger and turning the argument back on me.

3. Huge conflict.

4. Get back together w/no resolution b/c she does not accept culpability and acknowledge she hurt my feelings or did something that didn't sit right w/me b/c she thought totally differently.

5. Go on but it bugs me in the back of my mind; this crap starts to add up though and causes me to build up frustration and later suspicion when the cheating clues start to appear.

The only thing they typically tell the truth about everytime is the abuse they suffered if any as a child or young adult.

Pretty sure no abuse with my psycho. The father traveled a lot - he was a pilot. I now think she was majorly spoiled and very rarely was held accountable/disciplined in any really stringent way for malevolent or wrong behavior as a kid 'cause the parents now are gun shy around her and are very careful what they say lest they set her off.

Yeah you just made me remember that my HPD was at first great. She was talking about herself and asking me questions about myself etc but then she started to talk about her guy friends to me many of whom also are my friends and she'd tell me how great they are in ways that kind of disturbed me as in like she was interested in them. She'd be like oh he's so amazing and I'm thinking to myself ooooooookkkkkkkk and....duh I know this. He wouldn't be my friend if he wasn't.LOL!!

Yeah, what a clueless moron. Mine never talked about my male friends thought and gloated over them like yours. Different HPD strokes for different folks! Haha.

Hmmm well either those jobs provided her a lot of new and fresh excitements somehow or it simply goes back to what I said about not all HPD's being alike.

Yep - her job provided a lot of change and distraction, distraction, distraction!

"Wow. I remember saying to my HPD creature a couple of times when things started to go bad in the summer "What are you looking for in life?" "What are so you angry about?" "Why are you so dissatisfied?"

This is interesting. I only noticed how angry my HPD was after it ended and I had time to think about things. I thought after learning all I could about this disorder that her anger was probably from all the abuse she suffered as a child (repressed you know and vented by her getting rid of guys who love her as a kind of pay back) and maybe a lot of it is but since reading what you said I wonder if the disorder itself causes the anger? Like perhaps subconsciously they want to be good people, have a good life, and feel loved but they always ruin it then get depressed and wonder why things fell apart for them. Just a thought.

This is an excellent thought but perhaps you are giving them too much credit. Perhaps the disorder causes the anger but being consistent w/the infantile child thing, they don't recognize/realize their need to be good people. They are selfish. So per that maxim they just identify with their own frustration b/c they don't know why everyone is treating them so unjustly and that's perhaps when they get depressed.

I really believe they don't think for a second it could have anything to do with them. In the 11 mos. relationhip this woman never admitted to anything and only indirectly admitted to cheating the first time. Over time, she rewired her brain so she "forgot about it" or diminished it and come to think of it, she never, ever, ever asked me how I was handling it. She just wanted to have it blotted out of existance so she didn't have to deal with it.

Once, about two months ago, I was sitting on the couch w/her and the image of her cheating the first time (I walked in on her) flashed in my mind and I just got this pained expression on my face, she noticed and begged me to tell her what I was thinking; I did, after trying not to 'cause I knew how she would react but she was persistant; of course, she got angry, telling me she thought this was behind us. I said "I can't totally control the memories that flash into my mind" and she was still irritated and stormed off to bed, shutting off lights and leaving me sitting their in the dark watching TV. Not at all did she try and reconcile or probe for my feelings. What a selffish, heartless tramp. And I took her abuse like it was going out of style.

As corny as it sounds I salute every single HPD out there who takes action to overcome their disorder.

I bet it is rare though. My psychologist said it is a very, very difficult thing to treat because their personalities are so ingrained with the dysfunction.

Well I pmed you about it but for the board it was 4 months and I'm now in the 4th month and I really feel like I'm recovering now finally thankfully!

What is starting to help me is to put the focus back on me, and not her.

That seems to make sense because I focused on her for 11 mos. at my self's expense. My own self being suffered. My own identify suffered. I became someone I didn't like and someone who wasn't working towards goals and respecting his own self.

By focusing on becoming a well rounded person again and existing without her influence, not needing her, not being addicted to her, I'm starting to get a lot better.

A guy I talked to who was manipulated into a relationship by a borderline chick exhibiting heavy histrionic traits to get him to fall in love with her was ruined for three years ie he couldn't even look at another woman in such ways after their relationship fell apart. It will not be the same for me but thats the kind of long term damage these personality disordered chicks can do to their victims they get so thoroughly in our heads and then screw us over one way or another for no explainable reason. At least until we find out they have these personality disorders anyway.

This is so sad. Man, that will not be me and get it in your mind it will not be you. They win if so.

Oh it will and remember whenever the bad thoughts come just remind yourself that this piece of garbage guy she's with now will inevitably be hurt very badly by her as he will most likely fall for her and then she will turn on him as the HPD's just love to do to those who love them.

Yes, but he is still a piece of trash because he knew what he was doing and should not have done it. He has no morals or values either and deserves to be held accountable for his actions as well. Thinking about the scrawny schmuck makes my skin crawl.

Nah man I understand completely yet again. For a long time I just wished my HPD could of felt the love I had for her as then I know she wouldn't have been able to do the horrible things she's done to me.

I hear ya.

Yeah we're so convinced we've met the perfect girl because of the initial dealings that its hard for the truth to sink in often until its too late and the damage has been done.

Well I think you and I do want those qualities in a woman its just that the HPD is just so much more exciting than any other woman we've ever dealt with its intoxicating.

Yes, we were addicted to her. The excitment she brought had us mesmerized. We valued that above all else b/c we were devaluing and disassociating other aspects of our lives and putting to much emphasis on her - the drug. We relied on it/her more and more to provide us with what we valued most.

Yeah this is why its taken me so long to get over my HPD. She literally turned how I viewed reality upside down I guess you could say. I've had to struggle to integrate that people like this exist in my worldview.

Yes. It's just been a blessing I found out about this disorder so soon after my relationship ended. I would not have been on this path to recovery if I had not. I would still be trying to figure out what had happened, and most likely been blaming myself, further damaging my self-esteem and self-confidence.

Its the hypnotism of their entire being man. The beauty, the lovely lies they tell us about how much they're into us all of that is just so flattering plus they're just so exciting. The more I think about it maybe its not that we value the other women less its just the HPD's make us feel so special and so loved and so much like we met the woman we've been searching for our entire lives initially that really who can turn that down? When the bad behaviour starts we keep hoping the woman who was initially presented to us will come back like a junkie searching for their first high each new time they shoot up again. A high that never comes.

You're spot on.

"You say sweetness. How was she sweet?"

Thank you for asking me this. When I read the words it hit me like I ran into a brick wall.

She really wasn't. Her actions didn't match those of a truly sweet person.

Yes! The realization is cathartic! Somehow I also had this picture of a wonderful woman in my mind but when I tried to think of actions that substantiated this, they were minimal to non-existant.

I was thinking, late in the relationship and after, if I had to give a speech about her, say at my wedding. I realized I could not say the following - it just wasn't right and it didn't accurately describe her:

"She is the most wonderful, caring, thoughtful, patient, unselfish, nuturing, supportive, honest woman I've ever met. She has added so much value to my life. She has taught me things. She has taught me how to see appreciate life - it's ups and downs. She has taught me humility, how to set goals and stay motivated, etc. She has made me a better and stronger person. She is my strength in the maelstrom."

No. I could not. None of that. Not one bit. Nothing.

Wow. That's quite shocking. A life partner should provide all of that!

When I said she was sweet I guess I simply thought that because her voice was so sweet and she'd say my name and talk to me sometimes in such an overly sweet manner it could send someone with diabetes into diabetic shock lol.

She was hollow, no soul, no substance. A conniving, decieving actor. Her sweetness was something of no value, it did not make you a better person, did not nurture you, did not help you achieve your goals.

"When did you start to mistrust her? Why did you continue the relationship if you felt mistrust?"

I was just hopelessly in love with her I guess like you with yours. I started to mistrust her when I caught her in lies to answer that question.

Yep. Me too. How early in your relationship though? 2 mos? 4?

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

What do I give thanks for?

For getting the hell out of this dsyfunctional relationship. I'm looking forward to developing my own self again.

"Congratulations, KontrollerX. The following statement has won you "Post of the Year" on the Histrionic Personality Disorder forum!"

LOL, thanks man.

"This, my friend, is the key element of my psycho's disordered personality and a governing aspect of her behavior. She absolutely could not tolerate anyone, let alone me, ostensibly the person she loved and respected, place any expectations on her whatsoever regarding her dysfunctional behavior. I had to accept her behavior without question, without protestation and without any expectation she would even try to alter her deviant behavior in the slightest degree to address any issues in the relationship.

God, what a nightmare to be with a person like this! I'm so glad this relationship is over. I can't even imagine going through life and encountering it's challenges and experiencing the really tough times with her. She would have knifed me in the back at a moment's notice to suit her own selfish nature. Commitment? Loyality? Ideas and convictions without meaning to these creatures."

Definitely. You deserve a woman that is going to lift you up not tear you down as these HPD's inevitably do. Once again to bring up the HPD document it says something like "HPD's start relationships well but falter when depth and durability are needed."

"Yes, good point. In retrospect, I really didn't see any sincerity from my creature that suggested intimacy. It was almost "businesslike emotion" devoid of real feeling."

I was reading on Sam Vaknin's site an article I can't find now but it said something along the lines of sex with the narcissist pyrotechnics and acrobatics aside has a certain coldness and lack of true intimacy to it. Very robotic etc. Your point of the "businesslike emotion" made me remember it.

"Interesting. Did you suspect any depression at the time?"

Hmmm, well before I got involved with her I noticed she sounded kind of shaky when talking to other people. The kind of voice you imagine when you think of someone depressed/mentally on edge etc but with me she turned on the bull **** false confidence and seemed the most fired up dramatic person I've ever talked to so I brushed her shaky speech with others off as maybe she just didn't get enough sleep that day or burned herself out doing something else. Oh yeah now I'm pretty sure what else it was that could of burned her out all those times. Heh...

"My psycho didn't have depression. She had a typically positive attitude unless I questioned her about something or brought something up to talk about she wouldn't want to (like strange behaviors of hers.) It got to the point I was walking on eggshells, very careful about what I brought up to discuss regarding her behavior b/c I knew if I did I would be in for a battle royale. Lovely. What a relationship. What a horrible way to exist. I was totally in her power. How sad and disappointing."

Yep. Compulsive optimism just like the HPD document mentions. Also your walking on eggshells feeling is mentioned many times in regards to dealing with personality disordered individuals. I believe there's even a book titled that about these very things!

"Well, now I realize the relationship was so flawed and she disrespected me so much it would have gotten worse and the future would have been a disaster. Some things she did to me:

- told me to "Shut up!" w/disdain in her voice in front of her friends beause I dared to talk while she did; did this twice; I've never let anyone treat me with such disrespect in my life! If someone did this to me at work or on the soccer field I would have crucified them. This alone should have been reason for "relationship termination!"

If I had any balls I would have just walked out and left her but I didn't say anything but brought up the topic later and of course she tried to justify it by lieing and saying she did it "jokingly"; Yeah, "Come on honey, you know people say that jokingly to each other." Uh, no, I don't think so, especially when I detected the disdain and irritation in her voice. No joking there! What a piece of trash but I was weak to put up with it.

- called me a f***er b/c of a driving accident that almost happened that was not my fault in anyway; I kicked her out of the car but we got back together 30 minutes later; she apologized but again put the focus back on poor her by saying "How do you think I felt when you kicked me out of my car"; me, the doormat, again put this out of my mind

- embarrased me by storming out of a bar and calling one of my friends a fat "f***" b/c I dare protested she was fawning all over her "best male work colleague" and paying little attention to me (after we were bf/gf for three months!), which I and this guy noticed; of course, she apologized but was angry I acted this way calling me jealous and insecure; again I believed I was in the right but accepted it and said let's just move on w/the relationship; her spell/intoxication had me like a chump

- incidents of her flashing people at parties, particularly the guy she cheated on me the first time (who is married to her best friend) - toally disrespecting me by doing it; me seeing it and then her completely lieing and denying it when I said "WTF!"; again, I dismissed this and didn't resolve the issue

- me sick and not wanting to stay out w/her loser boss and a couple of people she hardly knew at a bar; badgered me at home in my own place about not respecting her feelings and making her look bad in front of her boss because I wanted to go but didn't want to announce to everyone I was sick; who cares why we need to go? I was her boyfriend of 6 months! who's more important to her? this chump boss is someone she supposedly didn't even like/respect and we never, ever were out with him before; kicked her out of my place but again made up few hours later and again I dismissed the issue and left it unresolved

- other incidents

The pattern:

1. She does something I think in appropriate (and most other people on the planet would as well)

2. I say something (later on I surpressed saying anything) only to meet with her fierce anger and turning the argument back on me.

3. Huge conflict.

4. Get back together w/no resolution b/c she does not accept culpability and acknowledge she hurt my feelings or did something that didn't sit right w/me b/c she thought totally differently.

5. Go on but it bugs me in the back of my mind; this crap starts to add up though and causes me to build up frustration and later suspicion when the cheating clues start to appear."

*Shakes head*

Just awful man.

"Pretty sure no abuse with my psycho. The father traveled a lot - he was a pilot. I now think she was majorly spoiled and very rarely was held accountable/disciplined in any really stringent way for malevolent or wrong behavior as a kid 'cause the parents now are gun shy around her and are very careful what they say lest they set her off."

Hmmm, if her father wasn't home a lot that could be it. Typically these HPD's have daddy issues in one way or another that causes them to develop the disorder. She may have developed it from missing him so much and wanting his attention but he was not there enough to give it to her as much as she needed. Still though the point that it simply could be genetic is also valid.

"This is an excellent thought but perhaps you are giving them too much credit. Perhaps the disorder causes the anger but being consistent w/the infantile child thing, they don't recognize/realize their need to be good people. They are selfish. So per that maxim they just identify with their own frustration b/c they don't know why everyone is treating them so unjustly and that's perhaps when they get depressed."

Thats f****** brilliant!

Yeah thats probably it.

"I really believe they don't think for a second it could have anything to do with them. In the 11 mos. relationhip this woman never admitted to anything and only indirectly admitted to cheating the first time. Over time, she rewired her brain so she "forgot about it" or diminished it and come to think of it, she never, ever, ever asked me how I was handling it. She just wanted to have it blotted out of existance so she didn't have to deal with it."

Hmmm, well I read sometimes that when you bring up an issue to them they know they were clearly in the wrong about it causes a huge emotional storm in them. Probably from their infantile inability to think clearly and logically but they quickly get rid of those fragmented thoughts replacing them with their fantasy thoughts of there's no way they could be wrong ever. So I guess about your point I would modify my agreement with it by saying they probably don't think for a second anything they do could be wrong unless someone like you or I points it out to them and makes it as clear as possible then they finally start to think that indeed something is their fault but its so painful for them to deal with they have to block it out/forget it etc.

"Once, about two months ago, I was sitting on the couch w/her and the image of her cheating the first time (I walked in on her) flashed in my mind and I just got this pained expression on my face, she noticed and begged me to tell her what I was thinking; I did, after trying not to 'cause I knew how she would react but she was persistant; of course, she got angry, telling me she thought this was behind us. I said "I can't totally control the memories that flash into my mind" and she was still irritated and stormed off to bed, shutting off lights and leaving me sitting their in the dark watching TV. Not at all did she try and reconcile or probe for my feelings. What a selffish, heartless tramp. And I took her abuse like it was going out of style."

Yep, just sad man how they exist only for themselves and to manipulate!

"I bet it is rare though. My psychologist said it is a very, very difficult thing to treat because their personalities are so ingrained with the dysfunction."

I agree as I read surprise surprise many of them don't believe they have a problem even when its pointed out to them!
RKtec pointed out that often times these women already hate themselves so much that they just can't accept that they would have one more problem so there is another sad barrier preventing women from getting treated for HPD when its pointed out to them that they probably have it.

"What is starting to help me is to put the focus back on me, and not her."

Ditto.

"Yes, we were addicted to her. The excitment she brought had us mesmerized. We valued that above all else b/c we were devaluing and disassociating other aspects of our lives and putting to much emphasis on her - the drug. We relied on it/her more and more to provide us with what we valued most."

Exactly.

I was thinking, late in the relationship and after, if I had to give a speech about her, say at my wedding. I realized I could not say the following - it just wasn't right and it didn't accurately describe her:

"She is the most wonderful, caring, thoughtful, patient, unselfish, nuturing, supportive, honest woman I've ever met. She has added so much value to my life. She has taught me things. She has taught me how to see appreciate life - it's ups and downs. She has taught me humility, how to set goals and stay motivated, etc. She has made me a better and stronger person. She is my strength in the maelstrom."

No. I could not. None of that. Not one bit. Nothing.

Wow. That's quite shocking. A life partner should provide all of that!"

Oh man I am ripping that off if I ever get married!

Well all except the word maelstrom haha.

Anyway the thought you had about the wedding speech is a powerful moment of self realization.

The truth triumphing over lies as it were.

"She was hollow, no soul, no substance. A conniving, decieving actor. Her sweetness was something of no value, it did not make you a better person, did not nurture you, did not help you achieve your goals."

*Hands Chris his Jedi robes*

You are learning well about the HPD force my apprentice.

"Yep. Me too. How early in your relationship though? 2 mos? 4?"

Right away actually lol but the thing was the lies seemed so miniscule I could brush them off at first.