I felt wrong too my man. Its called projection. She and I were always very sexual when talking with eachother. As it ended she made me feel like the pervert and the bad guy using projection which is part of their disorders.
Yeah me too. My creature initiated sexuality (talk, flashing me and others in public, fondling me in public, etc.) - ok fine, exciting, provacative - but when I took the lead, she occasionally got offended.
I noticed her sexual overatures decreased significantly over a month ago as she started cheating on me regularly with the same vagrant. This was a sign to me somthing was up. Boy, was I smart or what (being sarcastic here!) Ha! But I do remember things even further on (two months ago or more) when she cheated on me - can't even describe them they are too shameful and hurting. Man oh man. I didn't suspect then but now they make perfect sense.
Oh they know intellectually that what they do will hurt people an incredible amount but remember people are objects to them. If you were working on a paper for school or something else and you broke your pencil by pressing it too hard against the paper due to your frustration are you going to feel bad about breaking that pencil breaking that object?
Yes. This whole concept of me being an object no different than a refrigerator to fulfill their needs - to be their supply - is really hitting home and makes things easier to accept.
It doesn't matter how awesome a guy is, how pimpin etc. These HPD chicks literally need the thrill, drama and excitement someone new brings to them.
Unbelievable. She used to tell me how boring she was and how she would stay in on nights and watch movies and no one was asking her out on dates. In fact, I didn't notice her inviting a lot of people over to her place (she lives above me) so this seemed believable to me. Is this consistent w/the HPD need to go out and seek attention and get new people? If so, why didn't she do this a whole lot more?
One thing that messed with my mind throughout the relationship - her actions and events surrounding them were not consistent with her words (past or present).Is that a lesson learned or what?
Actions speak louder than words! In fact, I remember telling her that on a couple of occasions and of course she reacted angrily.
She is 35 (almost 36) and has never been married and I thought early on in the relationship she was set in her ways and did not like to change - for anyone. A friend even pointed this out to me. Very intransigent, obdurate nature. She was in a 5 yr long term relationship that ended in 2000 that she ended (so she says) and dated a few people since then (so she says) for short periods of time - 3-5 mos.
We spent New Years together last year at the House of Blues - boy was it a great concert and time - and she said it was her best New Year's ever.
The start of the relationship was great - normal it seemed. I had high hopes. But she would do little things - like introduce herself to men she didn't need to in front of me, etc. I thought that weird and somewhat disrespectful in the context it was done (i.e. to a waiter, a bouncer, some neighbor who I didn't even introduce myself to that helped me get my car out of the snow). Never introduced herself to women. Hmmmmm.
"I mean, she's an intelligent person - lawyer, 7 yrs college, professional. And successful at what she does. She is a litigator so the arguing portion of her personality is leveraged there.
Think about how much work a lawyer has to do of reading and such and you'll begin to see a big reason your HPD is a lawyer along with that just being a career choice an HPD would thrive in and the other reason is because its something she could do to distract herself ie all that reading people in that profession have to do along with dealing with their clients and cases. Distraction, distraction, distraction!
This is a very interesting point and if I were a cartoon, you guys would see a little lightbulb pop up over my head as I made yet another realization!
Of course! Distraction and new small tasks to do ALL the time! New cases! New people to depose for statements. New people to deal with! Places to drive to break up the tedium of a day in the office. All consistent with her need for constant newness.
But other aspects of her life didn't need that - she had two jobs since graduating college (not a lot of job changing like it says in the HPD literature), consistent small group of friends mainly female, lived a routine. She did some risky things like sky diving, drove agressively, drugs (consistent with an HPD's creature ease at doing morally unacceptable or illegal things).
Also its interesting what you say about her not being able to commit. I talked to one of my HPDs past victims I found out about after she was done with me and we compared notes and he told me quote "she doesn't know what she wants or who the hell she is" and "she's never followed through on anything."
Wow. I remember saying to my HPD creature a couple of times when things started to go bad in the summer "What are you looking for in life?" "What are so you angry about?" "Why are you so dissatisfied?"
Exaclty like that fella you spoke with. However, my HPD creature was pretty reliable in terms of work and showing up always and on times for dates. She backed out of picking me up from the airport once which ticked me off a little and looking back at it now was probably because she had a liason set up. Pure speculation on my part though but you would think a girlfriend would be anxious to see someone getting back from a business trip and it was totally out of the ordinary for her to "work late" as she claimed.
This guy was screwed over by her even worse than I was. He was friends with her for 9 months then she conned him into a relationship which lasted about 4 months and yes she cheated on him of course but anyway they were talking marriage and saying they loved eachother and all of that and getting what she wanted ie him telling her he loved her for a time she then callously cut off all contact with this guy and moved onto her next victim who is unfortunately making this post informing you of this right now.
Geez. I feel for you and that dude. My HPD creature said the same thing "I love you! I want to marry you! I want to spend the rest of my life with you! You are the best thing that ever happened to me!" Ad infinitum.
Uninformed. Not stupid. Remember that.
Yeah, but thanks to people like you I'm one [b]informed , albeit angry, guy, and I'll always be on the lookout for these types of gutter trash!
I mean what average person knows about the existance of personality disorders?
You are not kidding. I had no
clue! After the psychologist I talked to suggested/diagnosed this in her almost immediately after I described her to him and I started reading about it, it was as if a 12 ton elephant that had been sitting on my brain was lifted from it! I had been constantly asking, why, why, what did I do to make her do this????
I had no idea things like histrionic personality disorder existed before this chick came along that ruined my life for a time.
Well, we are more knowledgeable and better for it. How long would you say your life was ruined? I'm going on three weeks now but this whole HPD issue is making this a whole of a hell lot easier to accept and I'm starting to crawl out from the abyss.
Winston Churchill, in the darkest days of WWII when Nazi Germany was running rampant over and conquering countries left and right, said the following after the first Allied/British battle victory at El Alamein in 1942:
This is not the beginning of the end, but it is the end of the beginning.I feel that way now. It's the
end of the
beginning for me. I'm starting to be able to concentrate at work again and when I'm alone. Basically up to this weekend, when I was alone, I would always think about things and get angry/sad/etc. That was the worst. But I'm managing that better now (mainly by trying to keep busy/occupied) and by knowing she has a serious mental illness. Relief is replacing that. She isn't anywhere near as appealing as she first was. She's starting to be repulsive to me.
After I reach a couple of goals I've set I'll be further along. Don't get me wrong, it still hurts, a little, but when I think about her positive qualities (sexy, funny, spontaneous, materially generous, smart, observant), I realize many, if not all, of them can be found in normal, honest, caring, unselfish, empathetic, considerate, patient women! Just got smoke 'em out and lay some of that charm on 'em. Haha.
I'm just angry at myself for letting myself be disrespected, made a fool of, manipulated, embarassed, played and humiliated. And sacrifice my interests and relationships w/other people to the point I made her the entire
focus of my life. And I mean focus. I hate knowing she (and the third floor asshole) feel some form of accomplishment over that about how they deceived me. That burns me. But I just gotta stop thinking about it and even now, the burn is a little less. Hopefully it will approach apathy soon.
It helps tremendously to hear family and friends tell me she was psycho as well as you guys on this board do the same. I just wish she could somehow know this and feel the pain that I felt as a result of her actions. I know, I know - not too forgiving and all but what can I say.
Its exciting for the HPD and NPD to take a relationship as far as it will go. Engagements, weddings etc bring with them drama and excitement as does the subsequent divorce. Sick, sick, sick and no she can't reason. These people have difficulty with logic.
You are spot on. I would apply logic to her thinking/arguments and when I trapped her she wouldn't acknowledge it - she would just veer off on a tangent dismissing the conclusion like I hadn't proven anything! I would have to bring her back to the topic at hand but rarely could. She just could not stand to be wrong or have someone prove her wrong through logic.
Jeez. What a life I/we would have had. Why on Earth would I/we think I/we would want that? Thank God this is over - for you and me!
Perhaps this was part of her lawyer/litigator training. She is very, very good at her profession. Yikes. What a nightmare. Think about that. An HPD litigator. Scarry. I hope none of you run into her or you are in big trouble.
LOL, an HPD be honest? You must be kidding me. Part of all Cluster B personality disorder traits are pathological lying. Sometimes these people lie consciously and other times they just can't help themselves.
She was so damn good at it but I was no dummy and was catching her. But for some damn reason, I didn't hold her accountable. I reasoned, again, she was insecure and it was her way of trying to deal with her shortcomings and maybe she was a little intimidated that I would hold her accountable or scared or something. So I overlooked it. That is just plain wrong on my part. I should have run away, not walked, but I just never placed a hugely negative value on her lying until I suspected cheating.
I do remember early on in the relationship she herself commenting that one of her friends told her it was good she was living above me 'cause she couldn't get away with little white lies. And I said, somewhat alarmed/surprised, "what do you mean?" and she said "oh, things like I don't want to go out tonight b/c I am sick" or something like that.
I was so stupid 'cause I liked/loved wanted it to work so bad I dismissed this character flaw!
In her disordered mind she is the most important person and you are not important. Also they are very shallow people without a lot of depth of character so you can't really expect her to say much worthwhile anyway even if she were to try to repair things with you in a mature way. LOL, what I just said is impossible. They can't be mature or relate in a mature way.
So true. She was incredibly shallow - no depth. Nothing. Everything was face value. No exploration of ideas, events, deep thinking. And this was something I thought I
WANTED in a woman. Jeez. I gotta find out why I compromised SO much of what I wanted in a woman (as well as my own behavior) and idolized and loved this creature.
"And she always seemed to turn things around - if I brought up any issue, she attacked me instead of trying to resolve it together."Yep, more projection my friend.
I'm really not a fan of this projection. Haha.
Ha. Seems if our HPD's were to compete for a role in Hamlet over who could play the more convincing "wretched queen" it'd be one hell of a decision for the casting crew to make. Excellent liars and actresses are these.
Isn't it just unbelievable to think a person can be wired this way? They can act this way? It is so illogical - that is why I couldn't accept it and why internally, in my mind, these last 3-4 months I was so tortured and concluded I just
had to be wrong b/c no person is so illogical, especially a highly educated, successful (job) one.
As I stated before, her words were often not consistent w/her actions but the total idiocy of her possibly cheating on me days after being engaged or during the engagement process was just to illogical to accept for me, despite the reality and all the signs pointing to that very fact!
"She did buy me things - shirts, watches, cologne - and paid for a lot of meals. But that's easy to do IMO and self-sacrifice - doing something you don't want to do or giving up something truly meaningful to you - she rarely did. Oh, she cooked occasionally (maybe 5 times?) in the 11 mos. relationship."Ask yourself why she bought those things for you though? What were the reasons behind it?? Certainly not to make you happy because she really cares about you but to keep you under her spell because she was still getting something from you. Like I said before they are selfish and consciousless children in adult bodies.
Yep. She conciously or unconciously used those fairly easy actions to keep me interested/placated. I need to find out why I equated that with true caring/empathy/love. I failed there.
Its like Hannibal Lecter said to Clarice in the Silence of the Lambs "Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing, ask: What is it in itself what is its nature?" The woman you were involved with has histrionic personality disorder that is what she is in herself and what her nature consists of is manipulating people ie objects to get what she needs from them. You can't say well she did a good thing for me here and think in that instance she was a good person because what she did was simply a disgusting manipulation tactic and not a genuine act of a person in love.
Well, at least I can say the beatch didn't eat my liver with a can of fava beans and some Chiante. Haha.
But yes - nothing she did can be construed as having a purpose other than serving her own needs. Nothing. Not the nice cards she sent me early in the relationship, mainly after the first cheating incident to keep me around. Not the nice Christmas gift last year she made some effort to get. So sad and just so contrary to decent human nature.
I really, fundamentally I suppose, wanted her to value me - to appreciate me as a human being - and for some reason, I valued myself based on how she valued me. I.e. I derived my own self-worth by how she treated me. I somehow confused these trite actions to mean way more than they did. Yep - gotta figure out why I did all this. Before her, I had a very solid sense of self-worth and was self-confident.
"She was funny, spontaneous, exciting, provative (sexually - of course I now understand that to be an HPD sign) and somewhat decent in bed.
Honest, integrity, self-sacrifice, courage, etc. - all missing I see now in retrospect."It hurts reading this man because its like we were involved with the same woman and in a way we were albeit not the same person.
Wow.
I initially thought the girl I was involved with was the nicest, sweetest person I ever met in my life and I thought she probably had all those qualities you just mentioned but no they were all missing I see in retrospect. In fact I'll go so far as to say my HPD and all HPD's (who don't get treatment) are cowards.
Yes - cowards, hiding behind some facade! They hide because they are children, they can't face/understand/accept internally the difficult realities in life, and perhaps the most difficult one of all -
admitting we made a mistake
That's tough to do and these HPD creatures just cannot do that. They may say they made a mistake but always for their own gain (i.e. to win me back after she cheated on me) - they don't mean it. She said she felt horrible when she saw my pain wracked face but did she mean it? Doubtful. She cried over it and made all these pitiful sounds in messages so I thought she was sincerely feeling horrible but did she truly, truly feel it? No. I believe she felt sorry for HERSELF, not for making me feel terrible.
And then a few days later was saying she didn't remember anything so she couldn't admit to doing anything. Haha. So she got over the pain of making me feel tortured pretty damn fast and moved right on to twisting events in her mind to surpress the feelings she couldn't deal with!
Probably the same in your case.
They lack all of the qualities and characteristics we should really value in a woman. Somehow we valued sexuality, spontaneity, excitement, gregarious and outgoing behavior, a bit of charm perhaps, material generosity, and humor over those more important traits. Why? That's my mistake. I gotta fix that.
You say sweetness. How was she sweet?
Truly loving someone is one of the strongest most courageous things a person can do in life.
That's really a great statement, and if I were a sentimental, chick-flick loving type of guy, I might have cried. But seriously, it's a great statement.
"She was the biggest flirt. She would do the greeting kiss the second or third time after meeting someone (a bouncer at a club for instance)."<terrible cheating acts deleted> Who knows what else she did that wasn't caught. *Vomits*
Dude - I just vomitted as well. How horrible and awful for you. I feel your pain.
After dealing with my HPD I get the impression that everyone in her apartment complex with a pulse (as she's bisexual) has had a piece of her.
When did you start to mistrust her? Why did you continue the relationship if you felt mistrust?
I must have been crazy. After my creature cheated on me the first time - I took her back. I told NO ONE. That probably screwed me up just as much b/c I internalized the pain and had no one to talk to. I told no one because I knew I really really loved/liked her and if anyone knew (family/friends) they would have immediately told me to end the relationship. But I was already thinking marriage with this slut!
Of course my family and friends know now and they all say that's where I made my mistake - to not immediately end the relationship then. Sometimes the right decisions in life are much harder to make than the easier ones but we must make them. Yeah, I would have had pain then missing her companionship but think of all the pain it would have staved off. My bad.
Maybe some way to sue them at least or make them do community service. Maybe force them to learn about HPD and talk to and warn high school kids in a big auditorium about it. LOL.
Personally, I'd like to torture them mentally so they feel the same amount of pain we felt. Maybe it would help re-wire their brains.
That's the big thing for me - it is just killing me that she is not being held accountable for her actions. She's got herself and all her family/friends believing I am some psychotic controlling, abusive, jealous idiot. Aw, who cares though. I do believe her father is on to her though - he suspects something. I guess that's some consolation but who cares at this point.
You guys are great. I'm gonna post another thread to explore what we need to change in ourselves to ensure we never get suckered again. I.e. why were we so taken by these deceitful, albeit beautiful creatures.
Hang in there!