Histrionics and sex (for Nons)

thislabor -

I don't know all the feelings/triggers that result in why some people associate deep emotional meaning with sex, and others seemingly not, but I do fully agree that what we have to work hard for, versus what comes easily, can dramatically affect how we feel about some asset/thing in our lives.

feel it's an absolute truth that runs so deep that they never question their own feelings. I don't mean question for the purpose of changing those feelings, but questioning for the purpose of understanding ourselves

good insight

Twistedmister wrote:

feel it's an absolute truth that runs so deep that they never question their own feelings. I don't mean question for the purpose of changing those feelings, but questioning for the purpose of understanding ourselves

good insight

I've tried to look at my own feelings for why I associate so much of my self-esteem with monogamous sex, and some of those feelings are very difficult to face. Beyond the practical matters (risk of pregnancy, and STDS), I realized that for a partner to withdraw (or worse cheat), would crush my already not so great self-esteem, and facing that is not at all pleasant for many reasons that are even harder to look at head on. I won't be changing those feelings anytime soon, if ever, but they hold somewhat less of death-grip over me by trying to look at them honestly. I realized if nothing else, they had less to do with my partner and how I felt about them, and more to do with me. I don't have complete control over how I feel in this regard, but it shifts some of my sense of weakness/vulnerability from outside myself (others who I have no control over) back to myself which I potentially have some control over. I feel a bit more in control if nothing else (and yes, loss of control is another aspect intertwined in all of what makes it painful).

xdude wrote:thislabor -

I don't know all the feelings/triggers that result in why some people associate deep emotional meaning with sex, and others seemingly not, but I do fully agree that what we have to work hard for, versus what comes easily, can dramatically affect how we feel about some asset/thing in our lives.

It's all a matter of what that person and your relationship with them means to you in an emotional and spiritual sense. Sex is just an expression of this.. regardless of if it's just casual, or a deep act of lovemaking.

That's why sex with an HPD can be dangerous and questionable. If the NON has a yearning for there to be something deep there... It's going to be expressed in the sex act.. and may be mistaken for a sincere connection. The Histrionic will be hard pressed to fail to recognize this vulnerability.. and prey on it.

There's nothing wrong with casual sex... But there's so much illusion and deception inherent with the HPD disorder that it's hard.. maybe impossible to KNOW that it's going to be casual.

The Histrionic Personality Disordered Individual (HPDI), Like all Narcissistic Cluster B's is incapable of true love of another human being. HPDI's/Cluster B's are disconnected from their True Selves. Hence if they are disconnected from themselves; they cannot have a true viable Human connection with you.

They engage in sexual relations as a form of masturbation. They mistake the intensity of the Honeymoon Phase and the intensity of sexual relations with true love. However, they are mistaken. They are swept up in the novelty of newness, lust and adventure during these short lived relationships. When they begin to pall, the HPDI feels a sort of emotional letdown, anxiety and depression.

The HPDI cannot truly love another human being; although they are very adept at mimicking "Love Behavior". Like NPDI's (Narcissistic Personality Disordered Individuals) HPDI's do not perceive other individuals as being truly "human."

HPDI's perceive others as Animated Characters such as those in a television soap opera. You are not a true person with feelings, needs, intellect and personality to them. They cannot empathize with you on any level as a viable separate being. Thus, they cannot be an equal participant in a healthy reciprocal love relationship.

Their inability to engage in true intimacy prevents them from forming any empathic/intimate human connection with others; due to the fact they are disconnected from themselves (their "True Selves") Remember, an HPDI is rather a female manifestation of NPD. NPDI's are incapable of empathy.

No Empathy = No Intimacy= No Love

Sex for all Cluster B's is "Masturbation by Proxy." The sexual partner serves as a sort of "Live Sex Toy" or machine that they engage to feel sexual stimulation. There is no true intimate affect during the "Sexual Interaction"

Hence, what was supposed to be an intimate communion of two human souls was instead, a simple biological function; no different than going to the toilet.

You, the sexual partner of an HPDI may feel these feelings of intimacy toward your HPDI partner but the HPDI does not feel this towards you. Very often the after-course of sex with an HPDI will feel empty, unfulfilling and draining rather than the restorative, healing communion of shared human bonding. The HPDI is disconnected from you.

So the conclusive answer is NO, the HPDI cannot love you.

HPDI's perceive others as Animated Characters such as those in a television soap opera. You are not a true person with feelings, needs, intellect and personality to them. They cannot empathize with you on any level as a viable separate being. Thus, they cannot be an equal participant in a healthy reciprocal love relationship.

That's an interesting way to put it, on the surface akin to the 'thinging' that some AsPD's do to others. So in your opinion, how do you think HPD's perceive themselves?...when they look in a mirror, and see their reflection...are they animated characters themselves, or do they think they have that intrinsic value that human beings have...is their welfare, implied by that image, important to themselves, etc.

Hence if they are disconnected from themselves; they cannot have a true viable Human connection with you.

In your opinion is this disconnect always total, or does it occur in a natural bell curve, i.e., a continuously varying curve?...do some HPD's have a moderate empathic connection, some less, some very little, some next to none?
Relating this to the different HPD subtypes, for example, there seems to be different levels of empathy and connection, i.e., Appeasing has more empathy and connect than Disingenuous (and therefore I also think that recovery by an Appeasing HPD is more likely). Plus, the subtypes are fluid, not boxes with barriers that people conform to...an HPD can be Disingenuous if she is in a bad relationship, then switch to Vivacious if she has broken up with that guy and wants to start a relationship with a new guy.

So in my opinion, although at least some HPD's have definate problems with empathy and disconnect, the situation seems variable, and even dynamic, depending on what's going on in their lives

Finally, since this thread was about sex (not necessarily intimacy)...although you said that HPD sex with another person is akin to masturbation, I note that according to surveys a significant number of HPD's report dissatisfaction with their sex lives, including in some an inability to orgasm. If this is true, for those individuals HPD sex is not really masturbation, but more like a tool, a modus operandi to get their supply, which is

attention , perhaps?

ghost5of7 wrote: There's going to be some objection to my opinion but the answer to your questions is: No, they don't believe it's love... and Yes, they DO consciously pretend to fall in love. The malice doesn't always come in until after the thrill of "the catch" is done and they're bored with you. It's hard for Nons to understand because we don't understand the external nature of the HPD mentality. They don't love the person, but rather the validation that person gives them.

I have to jump in here and say I agree with the above statement 100%. I'd like to add to it to and hopefully help you as I have been helped here on this site. I recently came here to get a correct understanding of what was really happening in a relationship I had been involved in for 9 months with someone that a clinical psychologist informed me was most likely someone with HPD.

Now, to start with, I think it's majorly important to go back and have a discussion about what exactly lead me to ask a qualified person to offer me an analysis of the personality of the person I was in a relationship with and see if any type of disorders stood out.

What I'm really trying to get at is how to identify and recognize the subtle signs, red flags, and contradictions that you won't see described in a text book analysis of HPD on the internet. I'm talking about taking your own observations from your daily interactions with the person and seeing the clues in those that tell you that something is wrong. Often it's not just one observation or piece of information that is going to tell you a lot but rather the combination of many observations considered as a whole.

For example, you pointed out that she has a long list of former boyfriends and maintains friendships with them on her Face Book account. That fact, taken just by itself, may or may not mean much of anything as a single observation. But what if you add another observation to the previous one. Let's say that she posts sexually provocative remarks and other postings with sexual innuendos on her Face Book too and all these former boyfriends see all that. What if, in addition to that, she just flippantly mentions to you that one of these former boyfriends recently sent her a text looking for a "booty call" and she attempts to make a joke out of it and laugh it off (but she still tells you about it).

Then, let's say that on top of all that she then suddenly changes her attitude about having sex with you on your next date too and proceeds to say something you find completely off the wall in your relationship and sex life up to this point. For example, she lets you know out of nowhere that she isn't interested in having sex with you on your next date day and she's just going to masturbate and get herself off at home before she comes to see you. Imagine how confusing it would be to hear something like that especially if you have a great sex life and there aren't any problems or reasons she should suddenly feel like putting sex off the table with you out of the blue. Now, put all those observations together and compress them down into a 24 hour period and what have you got?

Unbeknownst to you, you've got a HPD whose sexual attention for validation has moved from you to a former boyfriend or someone new and you just got devalued in a very abrupt way and you were given the subtle hints (if you paid close enough attention) to even who that sexual attention was probably going to be going to and that you weren't getting any of it. This is the kind of thing they do but you have to watch carefully for it. To illustrate, see the text messages below and note the change in attitude and contradictions in the sequence of remarks. You can easily read between the lines. This is HPD in action.

6:39 pm. Hmmm I likey likey I will never doubt your ability to keep up and keep me happy in the bedroom never. Your my little slice of perfection. I want you as bad as I need you.


6:46 pm. Ummm about Friday I vote no sex we need to postpone. I want a date.

6:55 pm. Pretend you're filling my _ _ _ _ y up while I'm bent over in the shower.

7:09 pm. Holy hell you excite me to no end. mmmmm mmmmm baby thank you, you're amazing to me

7:21 pm. I'm dying laughing. Guess who just sent a text he's after a Sunday booty call bwhahahaaha. Army Boy. Had to tell him no I'm good don't need a booty call. LOL

7:53 pm. Sooooo not fair I know but just so ya know I'm gonna cum to your pics on Friday before I visit you. Then it's off to happy date day! Just so ya know.

Any NON might suspect something is way wrong here especially if you've been dating and having a great sex life for 9 months and then boom no sex and being ridiculous about it with the silly I'm gonna do myself at home thing before I see you. That sounds crazy. Who does that?

For the HPD, she was just most likely feeling low, needed a boost in validation, and he was available for that and she gladly exchanged her sexual attention for it.

ghost5of7 wrote:Gaining the person's love is a "victory"... Losing the person is a "loss"... Therefore they'll do whatever it takes to "catch" (and keep) the person. The "thrill" like I said only lasts for a short time for them. When they're bored with us as a supply, the malice starts.. and they find other men.

I also want to add that sometimes they return to men they have "on hand" that came before you were in the picture because they like to keep them tethered to them for validation purposes. HPD's will build and maintain and grow a supply of people to seek validation from. If she has lots and lots of old boyfriends and the still talk to each other, be very aware. They also like to "mention" them in general conversation, texts, and flirt with them on Face Book, etc. If you see these types of things then question the nature of those relationships (unlikely that you'll be told the whole or exact truth). The point is be on the lookout for a network of people they have as their supply some of which they are highly inappropriate with in one way or the other. Observing these things is probably a good indicator they maybe HPD.

ghost5of7 wrote:One other thing about HPD's is that they have a defensive need to deny and suppress that which they find unacceptable. Because playing with someone's emotions like they do is so painful and despicable... there's a VERY strong need for them to find ways to deny, mitigate, or twist the reality of what they do... With respect to the poster.. the "assuming more intimacy in the relationship" is an example of 'twisting'. The assumption of intimacy is a method of accelerating the game they play. Because there's so much ego involved with the HPD... there's a vested interest in declaring "victory" as soon as possible. I'd bet that this appeared to you as a very deep and natural connection with your ex. .

This is KEY here and one of the easiest signs that you are dealing with someone with a PD. They absolutely will deny any wrong doing even if you have proof and facts that show otherwise and make their denying it completely indefensible. They can't admit they have done anything wrong and they will deny something and twist and distort the truth to the point of it being insane, not making a lick of sense at all to any outside observer, and they will go to their graves in denial before admitting they have done anything wrong. This is just how they are and you can't do anything about it but recognize it when they are doing it and that's how you know there is a serious problem.

To Non's...
Of course, it is morally wrong to screw with people's hearts, and at a certain point the HPD, like anyone else, needs to 'come clean,' no matter what the psych issues are...even if we don't have the capability, we all should at least acknowledge the wrong...and, some (Van), have done this lately in the forum.
But that assumes they want to do it...when the moral choice is wrong, it seems that there are a variety of motivations blocking them from this choice, some of which I've read:

(1) I'm afraid
(2) I'm bored
(3) I like the power

By themselves these three answers imply different kinds of HPD, which implies variation, which means there is no one single "they," or "them." Why some Appeasing HPD's don't like being stereotyped with the characteristics of Disingenuous ones...and why we should be careful, while also being true to ourselves, describing the pain and wounding we experienced...

By the way, if they aren't open to self-awareness or recovery, then why try to get them to recognize what they have done wrong? It's much easier to just avoid them...No Contact is a simple policy when you don't have to deal with people who are either intentionally or unintentionally harming you.

This is a great post!

It sounds just like"my" ex-HPD!

Thanks for such a good explanation! of how some of them are........

Well, if you have bad sex with HPD.
What do you do with her?
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