Histrionic or Antisocial

by **ajr8** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:54 pm

I've often wondered why HPD and ASPD are so intimately related. They co-occur all the time, they are from the same family of personality disorders "Cluster B" and they seem to form and develop from the same underlying psychopathology, with their symptoms influenced by gender. Male sociopaths have ASPD and women with the same underlying disposition have HPD. I have read this in tons of research books about personality disorders, and it seems the two conditions are almost the same disorder but they are only different in that people with ASPD engage in more antisocial behavior and people with HPD are more exaggerated and theatrical in their emotions. Do you ever feel like you can't tell them apart or you or someone you know with the condition seems to have both?

Think of HPD / NPD as just further granulation/specialization of BPD in general.

Now add AsPD as an "independent", unrelated scale in the above.

With HPD/NPD/BPD the higher the co-morbid AsPD features, the harder it will be to eradicate the PD.

This is Otto Kernberg's thinking.

They all present with HPD/NPD/BPD symptoms as a mixed bag. Give them the Hare AsPD test on the way in to measure AsPD features. If that ends up too high just boot them out and refer.

Repeat, the higher the actual historical AsPD behaviors are, the harder the patient will be to treat. Too much AsPD and they "lock them up and toss away the key".

This is critical for NONs to understand. People with lightweight AsPD features can be treated. Those with heavyweight AsPD features generally can not be.

by **ajr8** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:56 pm

But the severity can vary in any of those PDs. But a severe impairment of ASPD probably can't be treated, and the same goes for HPD. And xdude I read the article you posted, I've read it before and there are many others out there about the relationship between HPD and ASPD and they suggest it is almost the same internal disorder. I think they just co-occur a lot and together they make a person worse.

by **orion13213** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:27 am

HPD and AsPD: same underlying phenomenon, just expressed after passing through a different hormone and body plan? Often wondered if the only difference between Histrionic and Antisocial are the sex specific hormones, namely estrogen and testosterone, resp.
If you look at every tribe and culture in the world the criminals (=Antisocial personality disorder=AsPD's) are still overwhelmingly male, because testosterone seems to be the human molecule of aggressive capabilites, the raw juice behind the kinesiology and neurology of assault, robbery, rape and murder.
And even with increasing social equality, woman aren't becoming more criminal (despite all the recent media attention way more fathers will murder their children than mothers). By and large women play by the rules far more reliably than men. Of course, the rules now allow them to be as promiscuous as any guy and still maintain a reasonable amount of social standing and respect...so women might be increasingly Histrionic (true, sometimes with antisocial dimensions - the disingenuous Histrionic/somatic NPD), but women by any measure still don't seem to be increasingly becoming bonafide antisocials (AsPD's).

by **treetop** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:52 pm

I have often wondered about the same thing. My HPD friend often exhibited antisocial traits, and I can't help but wonder had she been born male, perhaps those traits would have been more predominant. (because of the tendancy to become more aggressive.) as it was, she was very scheming, underhanded, and cold hearted in most of her dealings with other people - yet, she would rarely resort to physical violence. most of her violence was done verbally and through emotional manipulation. but, in the long run, she devastated her targets almost more than the devastation a physical attack would bring.

by **Cpt** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:10 pm

Mine liked hurting men(admittedly) and watching them squirm(my interpretation of why she loves telling me about her screwed up activities). She also had a sexual proclicity for "forbidden" targets like underage, overage, random hookups, situational sexual aggressiveness, married guys. The more deviant, the better.

Besides that, she was pretty much 100% textbook HPD.

Histrionic or Antisocial

Histrionic or Antisocial

ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Re: Histrionic or Antisocial

Who is online