The Critisism Weapon-The Art Of One-Upmanship

CptSaveAho wrote:There's no question. I have definitely subconsciously adopted many of her values, to my detriment. Vanity, approval seeking, manipulating members of the opposite sex to increase attraction, etc etc.

Fleas from the dog .

Do you feel those behaviors decreasing or increasing? How long has it been since you have broken up with you ex? I ask because the counselor I had told me she wouldn't even test me for a pd until a year post break-up (due to the PTSD effect many experience, the trauma after devastating break-ups the results may not be accurate).

She called it, "fleas from the dog"...and how the person without the pd inevitably picks up on forms of defensive mirroring and adapts their personality to live with/be in a relationship with the person with the pd. So getting tested soon after a relationship with a pd...well, lets just say that getting a breath test after having too many drinks of alcohol...that you're still under the influence . Gotta wait awhile to get the drugs/alcohol out of your system.

I definitely agree you take on some disordered characteristics after being involved with the disordered for a long time. after my relationship with the borderline, I definitely became more volitile - like him! I noticed that little things could set me off, things that never would have bothered me before. it was especially prounounced when I drank. I think this was because with him, we often drank together - a sort of emotional remembering on my part tied directly to a state of being drunk. for example, I found myself randomly yelling and cussing out my brother's friends at his wedding for annoying me. lol... oh Lord that was embarassing when I sobered up! It got to the point where it became an almost physical thing, I could feel myself starting to get enraged and feeling hyper-alert (for no reason) after drinking exactly 3 drinks. It was also when the borderline was drunk (and I was drunk with him) that he'd feel justified going into his rage cycles, I'd always have to be on the defensive and rage right back or else be crushed. a definite learned behavior.

I guess, I learned to be more paranoid of people than I ever was before I met him. because I was always waiting for 'his other shoe to drop', walking on eggshells.. I was often in a state of hyper-alertness or paranoia. if I wasn't hyper-alert, I was completely numbed out and dead to the world - just a state of exhaustion I suppose.

this has definitely lessened with time. three years out from that relationship, I no longer have those rage episodes, though I do find myself still getting adrenaline rushes whenver I hear police sirens or hear of some kind of fight or fire or something.

Somewhat of tangential point, but I thought I'd link this article:

http://www.sociopathworld.com/2010/03/d ... pathy.html

In particular:

"I am known for being very frank and upfront with people, calling things as I see them with little to no attempt to use tact, but i can get very offended when normal people do the same thing back to me. They don't do it right (without the same charm, insight, timing, or finesse), and to me it means something different than when I do it -- typically I do it with an intention to hurt."

Ultimately though I think a lot of human social issues come down to a pretty simple thing. I want what I want. Others want what they want. A lot of the issues come down to people wanting what they want, which are often at odds with what others want; and vice-versa.

Being critical of others for example... so take the HPD woman in my life. If other women look better than her that's a threat to her because by comparison, she is not as good looking so that can lead to various ways of coping with it. Being critical of other women is one way to deal with the threat. Testing me to see if I'd rather be with them is another way to deal with the threat. But when it comes to other males, there is no threat. So the reason to be critical is different. Other attractive men are potential sex partners, so she is not critical of that and blurts out her sexual attraction. Other less attractive males are still potential emotional providers, or financial providers, so while she may dismiss some as not sexually attractive, she isn't threatened by them either and they still may have some benefit to her, and therefore she is more likely to defend them.

Anyway when you look at people as primarily (not entirely, but primarily) self-interested, and in a kind of on-going, but not planned, battle with each other to adjust what's in their best interest with what others want, human interactions often make sense.

CptSaveAho wrote:my HPD was all flattery until it came to sex. She would bring up past escapades with me right before and sometimes DURING sex, and also criticize me during and after with snide remarks. What a nightmare! Then later she would say "You're so good".

The person with HPD in my life doesn't do this specifically; though she does seem obsessed with pointing out other males she thinks are hot which I suppose is somewhat similar.

Anyway I don't know. Maybe a combination of reasons. My gut would say:

1.) On some level she thinks it may increase her value by pointing out how much she is wanted by others sexually (though I wonder if she is aware that poorly timed, this can backfire and turn a lover off - see next thought though)

2.) On some level she doesn't want to settle down with any one person, so death by a thousand cuts, little insults/criticisms, is one way to keep the relationship in a state where she can get out, without anything too specific so that if it does fall apart, she need not feel like she contributed to the failure.

3.) If you put up with little pushes endlessly it kind of proves you really care about her despite the tests.

4.) She is hyper-sensitive herself to criticism, and perceives many innocuous (or intentional, but perhaps well meant) comments you've made as critical, so is lashing out/back.

There are probably other reasons.

FWIW though in talking with the woman who suffers from HPD in my life, she was raised in a family where her own mom, and dad could rarely deliver a sincere straight compliment without it being left-handed. I did ask her for examples though, because it could just be her perception or hyper-sensitivity. I'd say the examples she gave were quite reasonable. Left-handed, hurtful ... good job, but such and such else did better. If someone hears that kind of thing their whole life growing up, that will mess with one's innate sense of self-esteem.

I did go to school for psychology, I wasnt able to finish for my degree, I do understand that any of us can have personality disorders and not be aware of it because they are either developed as a way of coping or just always been there. So I am not saying in this post what was brought to my attention concerning myself is invalid or wrong. I writing to you all to understand. I have read many of your post. Someone with a disorder until brought to their attention is clueless i believe at times.

I was recently told I have an 'one upmanship" personality. Though I can kinda of understand what was stated to me I dont fully. I have experienced alot of things and have knowledge of alot of things. In my mind when someone is sharing something with me, i am not intending to have a better story or to know it all, I am intending on relating to them with like experience or so forth. I do have a habit of talking over others. I do always tend to have a response. Apparently, people on my ministry team, avoid me. They feel I am see them as inferior (though that may be the perception I may release it isnt what is in my heart) that I know everything and I have the only right answer.

I really want to understand what One upmanship personality disorder is. I dont want to make people feel that way, I have never had a close relationship that has lasted, and I am here looking for answers. I want to overcome this and be able to have healthy relationships. I have read alot of what you all have written in this forum. Though I dont believe I am as extreme or mulish as some maybe apparently it is a character flaw and now that it has been brought to my attention I have need to understand it so I can work to change it in myself.

Thank you for your time in reading this.

Hey NewCreation,

Side note - this is an old thread, so feel free to start a new one. Not sure where it belongs so the HPD forum is fine if you want to post here.

As to your post, my gut reaction is that it's like so much else when it comes to our personalities. We all have tendencies this way or that. Our personality traits are not inherently right/wrong, good/bad, they just are. What is problematic is when a trait tends to go to an extreme, and often those extremes have a way of negatively affecting others more than they do us.

I don't know that you'd fit the label of having a personality disorder, because you are aware of this trait, while someone with a PD is more likely to be unaware, and the kicker... even if aware, refuse to make any changes. You seem to be open to making a correction. A correction could be as simple as holding off a few before speaking, leaving it open longer for others to speak their minds (and spending a bit more time letting their words sink in before responding).

Every time i did it, or "One-up" i was not aware i was doing it for evil things. Was i being emotionally abusive in some situations? Yes, and i am deeply ashamed of it now since i am aware of what i am capable. In my mind i was protecting myself, or in certain scenarios using the carefully planed out sentences/words to start a fight, or initiate/steer a conversation in a certain way which would benefit me and my goals. I would manipulate a fight using words because i knew i would "win".

The craziest thing to me right now....i was not even aware how carefully planed out my words were back then. So i wouldn't call it "art" as that would indicate that we are self-aware and we're doing it on purpose. That's so far from the truth i cant even begin to try and explain. Everything we do sort of just happens naturally and we don't even realize the amount of planing that goes into some of the manipulation games we tend to pull off.


NewCreation,

I have the same tendencies to take over the convo and i do it in the same way as you described, and i feel the exact same way as you when you say "I am intending on relating to them with like experience or so forth" - word for word. I feel if i do that they will like me more because they will see how "close" i can relate to their situation. But when i do that I'm being manipulative(i know that now) because i turn something that is "theirs" and i make it about me because of my insane need that i can relate their story. Anyways, in those situations, how that i am aware of who i am, i trained myself to just be quiet and let them talk. I try and not to interject all the time.

I'm so sorry you're going thru that. The thought of that happening to me, people avoiding me for one thing I'm using to bring us "closer". Makes me scared and panicky. So i cant imagine the sadness and anxiety you're going thru. I'm sorry and i hope you can fix your situation.

One interesting point that was raised by some past posters is about "absorbing" (for the lack of a better term) some of the conscious/unconscious behavioral patterns typically displayed by our former HPD partners.
In my case I can say, with absolute certainty, that I "absorbed" some of these behaviours.

For instance, almost anybody that had a relationship with an HPD sufferer knows pretty well their formidable "social skills" -- for instance, the flamboyant body/spoken language, the ability to impress people, and so on -- and how these skills turn out to be extremely useful in many different social settings.

As I somehow learned these skills just by staying together with my ex for a relevant amount of time (1,5 years), I oddly have to thank her.

Also: these "skills" somehow weakened over time, but I can still use them when needed. This is a really interesting phenomenon that should be investigated further...one really wonders how HPDs acquire these skills.