Histrionic Emotional Amnesia

yYyYy wrote: people think HPD means annoying attention whore. The disorder itself, has a bad reputation/misunderstanding.

I agree. Until they actually find themselves involved with one. Then they see the complex and seductive nature of the HPD. My friend has hpd and she has many traits that I admire. Her social skills are amazing. She is very alluring and very smart about people. When I have a tricky social situation to deal with she gives me the pointers. And she's fun and alive. I wouldn't want to be married to her or live with her tho. LOL

The irony is, she has the all the skills she needs to get exactly what it is she is searching for, but in the end, getting it never fills the void. It's all about the chase and it always will be.

It's complicated on one level, but from another point of view it is not.

From my point of view, in a way it is not much more complicated then that someone with HPD is nearly 100% reactive to a core feeling that we all share, just not to such an extreme. We're all reactive to varying degrees to the sense that our ego is being boosted, or bruised. Most of us though have some internal sense of esteem (i.e., self-esteem that is fueled from within), plus our intellects allow us to stand back, and observe our emotions from a somewhat objective position. That is to say we're aware of both our emotional side, and our intellectual side, and neither side entirely rules.

Our intellect also plays a key role in our sense of 'time'. Time in terms of future planning, and re-evaluating our past experiences. For someone with HPD, they're often so consumed with reacting to ego boosts/bruise-avoidance in the moment, that the experience of stopping, standing back, thinking about it is muted. That carries over into long term planning and historical review in general.

There is no perfect analogy, and the only analogies I can think of are not very flattering. Though we can imagine if we were driven by some basic core human need, say obsessed with obtaining food and fear of not, that we might learn to do whatever worked to get food. As long as we are getting what drives us, we can believe we are succeeding, even if that means we have to act, do tricks, put ourselves at risk. We can imagine being so obsessed with obtaining food and avoiding going hungry, that it's not about the people who give us food either.

Problem with such an obsessive drive is that it's near impossible to consider the opinion of 'you're not successful' if you are getting what you want; the thought that the obsession with food is the problem would require a 90 degree re-think of an entire life outlook. See though there is no perfect analogy, because to suggest one is not successful is an ego-bruise, so also to be avoided by someone whose key drive is ego boosts/bruise-avoidance.

The complexity though (I believe) comes in the form of people with HPD still are driven by all the same other basic human needs/wants we all share, and those other needs/wants do surface at times, just that they are lower priority, or frequently drowned out by their core drive. So for example, the want for a loyal friend/lover is in there somewhere, and at times surfaces. The want to be able to be at peace, have long term safety/security is in there, and is co-mingled with the core drive. At times a friend/lover sees those other basic human wants/needs emerge and so feels there is hope for a normal relationship, but soon enough, the core drive re-emerges and must be fulfilled at any cost.

The rest of us don't get it, because we're not entirely driven by ego-boosts/bruise-avoidance; we understand that to have the loyal relationships means that we will be put in positions at times where we can't make everyone happy, so must choose those we're loyal too over a random ego boost from random others. We understand that we may have to give up some immediate potential ego boost now for long term security/safety and peace. The person with HPD confuses us because at times they say they want the same things and on some level really do, but still will make choices favoring short-term ego gains/loss-avoidance over long term benefits.

There is likely an additional degree of complexity which is in our perception. In my culture and likely many of ours, we're swamped with media icons who are desired by the masses (e.g., actors, musicians); who live the 'good life'; who we think nothing of marrying/divorcing every 2 years even find ourselves envying it; who seem to be un-hurtable; who have lots of sex partners; etc. We also end up then questioning if we are the losers because a person with HPD matches some of that ideal.

HPDs can experience very strong emotions. they detach from the emotional content of memories so they are not overwhelmed on recall?

crystal_richardson_ wrote:HPDs can experience very strong emotions. they detach from the emotional content of memories so they are not overwhelmed on recall?

It seems to be true for BPD types as well, though perhaps they block the emotions less so are more often depressed? AsPD types maybe go to another extreme and learn to block emotions almost entirely?

The little bit of experience I've had with HPD seems like they welcome (even try to amp up) emotions that are pleasant, but block those that are painful, something we all do to a degree, but possibly most people don't feel the painful emotions (nor pleasant emotions) as strongly so don't feel overwhelmed? Learning to selectively pick emotions to feel/block is bound to lead to confusion over what we're feeling though.

I guess the idea of just doing some things alone, stopping interaction with others for a time, turning off external input, and processing feelings in peace is something that people with HPD are not use to doing, or fear doing? I'm not sure if the key matter there is they feel empty/pain when alone, or fear that being alone they are missing opportunities to build ego around others, or welcome the noise of external stimulation to take their mind off their own feelings, or some combination of all that.

It does make me wonder though why anti-depressants are believed not to be very effective for someone with HPD. Maybe because even if they help to turn down the volume of painful emotions, people with HPD are also addicted to their own pleasant emotions? What I mean is many manic depressives avoid their medications because while the lows are brutal, they enjoy the manic phase so much that they'd rather put up with the extremes.

I don't necessarily want to open a new topic with the same title so i will just continue this old one with a fresh question: has anyone found out how do you recover memories you seem to have lost due to such amnesia? I have recently discovered that i have large portions of time that i can't remember clearly or at all, i have discovered emails from someone with whom i have apparently flirted and i have no idea who they were, the moment until now has simply just vanished completely form my memory, in my mind it never existed if you would have asked me now. And i wonder how many such other events might have been in the past, i want to correctly reconstruct the past, so if anyone experienced this partial amnesia of events, can you share how you managed to correctly remember, and if you are sure you remembered it all?
Thanks!

There is no such thing as Histrionic emotional amnesia or any other personality amnesia. Every human is hardwired to forget and distort memories and over time shape any detrimental situation into a valid reason for their actions. The brain has 6 layers of memory, the top layer taking in everyday life and putting it in the proper compartment for future use. The bottom layer is for things that have traveled down the other layers and now require no thought process eg riding a bike, driving a car, basically anything that doesnt need thinking about in your life.
Along with the 6 layers there are 2 distinct subconscious processors, the initial one acts as a filter based on previous knowledge for quick assessent and the second analyses deeper and compartmentalizes. When a deed is done that conflicts with the bottom layers of thinking Processor A hands over to Processor B which basically says not enough info and throws it back, hence no memory. True amnesia outside a specific memory loss, faces, places, retro memories needs damage to the Corpus Callosum, which stops information coordinating both sides of the brain.
How do I know this? my wife has had anterograde amnesia for 8 years ( memory 30 mins at best ) and nobody knows more about the brain than me outside neurologists and brain surgeons. So PDs have no brain mechanism thats different to us other than if we do something enough times it will get entrenched further down the layers and become normal, just like washing your teeth.

Looks like a terminology disagreement, chubnut1. I don't think anyone here is comparing this kind of amnesia. To amnesia caused by physical damage.

Dissociative amnesia is reasonable though. I've experienced it myself, linked to anger. [Though I don't have HPD. Nearly the opposite.] The extreme emotion causes me to lose several minutes to an hour of the immediate past. It may return over a few hours once I'm calm again. Or never come back and I just have to fill in the detail as best I can. I don't know what layers of my brain are involved. But I can state my practical experience with this.

You're right in that there aren't "personality amnesias." But there are maladaptive patterns of coping and behaving. Known as personality disorders. Which patterns can result in this effect.

I'm no expert. Except in my own experience. That's conclusive enough for me, though.

Hey chubnut1,

Some well put thoughts. I just watched a video from a neurologist that demonstrated how we humans revise our memories, and short of asking others, we really do believe our revised version.

Interesting you mention process A vs B. There is a good book titled "Think Fast And Slow" in which the author refers to processor 1 vs 2. In that book Processor 1 is our quick think, our intuition, what comes easily. Here is the key thing about the book though. Processor 2 is our ability to remember, to weigh, to think, and this system is painful to use, literally. His point through out the book is Processor 2 does not come easily, we must work at it, it's tiresome. We have to put aside what is easy. Sort of like physical exercise, we must work at it and not everyone does. Processor 1 is the easier path.

So it's our inclination to avoid Processor 2, it doesn't come naturally. Of course some people do have brain wiring issues, and cannot remember, but still I'm inclined to believe there is a difference between cannot remember, and won't remember, because memory really is stressful. Memory forces us to recall our choices and be responsible for our future. There is no fun in it. None of us has perfect memories but still, we can recall the gist of this or that, but it comes at a cost.

xdude wrote:Hey chubnut1,

Some well put thoughts. I just watched a video from a neurologist that demonstrated how we humans revise our memories, and short of asking others, we really do believe our revised version.

Interesting you mention process A vs B. There is a good book titled "Think Fast And Slow" in which the author refers to processor 1 vs 2. In that book Processor 1 is our quick think, our intuition, what comes easily. Here is the key thing about the book though. Processor 2 is our ability to remember, to weigh, to think, and this system is painful to use, literally. His point through out the book is Processor 2 does not come easily, we must work at it, it's tiresome. We have to put aside what is easy. Sort of like physical exercise, we must work at it and not everyone does. Processor 1 is the easier path.

So it's our inclination to avoid Processor 2, it doesn't come naturally. Of course some people do have brain wiring issues, and cannot remember, but still I'm inclined to believe there is a difference between cannot remember, and won't remember, because memory really is stressful. Memory forces us to recall our choices and be responsible for our future. There is no fun in it. None of us has perfect memories but still, we can recall the gist of this or that, but it comes at a cost.

Hey X,

can you give us a link to this video?

It's a PBS series, "The Brain" with David Eagleman. I got it as a gift in the form of several DVDs. PBS puts some of their series online, but I don't know if this is one.