BPD/NPD/HPD-The Differences

Any of them can be good looking, but in general BPD will be the lowest functioning, NPD the highest, HPD somewhere in the middle.

BPD: better named Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder ? : in the worst cases nearly psychotic episodes of dissociation. The best known splitters among the PD's: at any one time they see people as good or evil with few intermediate characteristics. Frequent emotional outbursts, more so than HPD (the feral cat analogy the above poster suggested is a good one). Lack of self image and self identity: BPD's have such a vacancy within themselves they often end up sounding like the other person they are having a conversation with. Afraid of being abandoned or alone. Known for impulsive behavior and addiction to sex, alcohol, marijuana, harder drugs, gambling, and other risky behaviors. Some make superficial cuts to the arms and legs to release analgesic endorphins. Serious suicidal ideation and suicidal attempts.
In a relationship with a BPD you would probably feel in control and secure, but after a while maybe smothered. Breaking up could be even more problematic, however, since it might trigger rage, obnoxious stalking, simple assaults, or in rare cases, worse forms of violence.
On the positive side, if you really love a BPD they have the best chances of remission, and they seem to possess genuine empathy. Unfortunately it is such a crippling condition for those who have not sought treatment, many are un-employed or under-employed.

BPD emotional supply: "Go away - no -I changed my mind, stay with me!"


HPD: like a more functional version of BPD, with a more tightly focused psychological challenge: relationships with significant others. In the beginning you will feel like the most loved person in the world, probably only later to suddenly fall into oblivion. Probably the most well known cheaters among the PD's. Like BPD's, HPD's split, and this explains the extreme initial idealization / later devaluation of you, and the constant search for the ideal man (or woman). They don't seem to be intentionally trying to hurt others, though. Some say the only way to sucessfully manage a relationship with an HPD is to keep them guessing: don't let ever them know know you love them and set down strict disciplinary guidelines regarding cheating. If you are too serious about life, they have a refreshing light superficial perspective, but don't expect too much deep intellectual reflection (unless they are trying to recover). Despite supposed problems with orgasms, great in bed, if they are so inclined. Fairly well represented in professional buisiness and entertainment circles.

HPD Emotional supply: "Give me your attention" [good preferred, but bad will do]

NPD: in my opinion the somatic NPD's are best looking of the PD's (but watch out!). Many models, media personalities, and entertainers seem to be somatic NPD or at least narcissisitic. The cerebral NPD's can be doctors, lawyers, academics, and other high white collar professionals. All of them are usually perfectionistic, intelligent, manipulative, expert 'white' or all-out liars, and totally self-centered: whereas BPD's and HPD's IDEALIZE (and in the case of HPD's, unfortunately later devalue) their significant others, from the get go with an NPD you are OBJECTIFIED, or "thinged" - kind of like a tool shed with good things inside to be used up. In this respect NPD's differ from their close relatives the AsPD's only in terms of their supply: whereas the the AsPD's want your money, your car, your body, or your life, the NPD is usually satisfied with being...adored, worshipped, noticed as the best looking or the brightest, or the most wanted (unlike the HPD criticism and other forms of negative attention are not valued).
In a relationship with an NPD you will note an unusual amount of statements coming from the NPD that begin with "I," or that include "mine." "I went <here> today," "I did <this> today," "Hey, that client is mine," etc. Often there will be little genuine interest in what you or others do.
Although unlike AsPD's NPD's usually don't commit serious crimes, when the narcissism gets so bad NPD's can be Malignant Narcissisists, who have overlaps with AsPD's and so are potentially dangerous. Their supply often involves humiliation and some have been involved in sex crimes,torture, and serial murders.
Another peculiar characteristic of some severe NPD's is when you express love for them they respond with contempt, as if they are thinking "only a fool would love me."
Being in a relationship with an NPD has been compared to running on a treadmill that is gradually running faster and faster: you eventually will get exhausted, but you never get anywhere.

NPD emotional supply: "Worship me, I am better than anyone!"

Great post Orion. You broke it down very well, and I can relate to a lot of what you wrote.

Ironically, what you said about the NPD is not as recognized as it should be. For instance, if you look at the NPD forum (the books it recommends, the posts...etc), you will notice that it is very destitute of the full scope of NPD. Not much is said about the specific language the NPD uses (yet the NPD's language is one of the core components professionals use to study the pd and to help those with the pd make improvements with their communication models).

I think searchfortruth (if my memory serves me correctly) learned a lot of language techniques to make a lot of improvements in his life. It cannot be emphasized enough that language is HUGE in relation to NPD.

Furthermore, the male cheaters, the drug addicts, the people with drinking problems...none of these things are specific traits to NPD (one can simply check the DSM...but even a more extensive search will produce the same conclusion). True, these things "could" be traits of an NPD-just like an NPD "may" happen to be a smoker-but a nicotine habit simply isn't a trait of NPD.

Funny how you mentioned the models and actors, and how you mentioned that IYO they were the most beautiful of the pd's. I feel the same way, and that this specific sub type of NPD is entirely in love with themselves. They are more higher functioning than the HPD, and this combination enables them to put even more into their appearance than an HPD could. For instance, the somatic NPD is more high functioning, which means they can make more money to put into plastic surgery, etc. There can be a lot more said about the somatic NPD you mentioned.

I think they are often a representation of the covert NPD. I have for years been fascinated with covert NPD's-perhaps because they are so high functioning that they can fly under the radar. In fact, when I had first begun lurking this board, I found a poster who I believe was a covert NPD using the exact type of language you mentioned: "I", "Me", etc. It is obvious she is a covert NPD:

"Remember what "I" do for a living"...
"Remember I did this for you..."
"Your counselor said the same thing "I" said..."
"So your shrink agrees with what "I" was saying in the beginning..."
"'I' already heard that story a long time ago..."

Anyway, you can tell she is starving for recognition. Her fragmented identity is revealed through so much of the language she uses, and your post is so spot on about their use of pronouns! Once you learn this, it is easier to spot a covert NPD.

I think another problem with so much of the watered down information of NPD is that many people are so intent of making the NPD a pd that is congruent with male behavior (they REALLY try to make sure the man gets the NPD label). As a result, when a man cheats on a woman,

"He is an NPD!"

Yet, no where does it say, "A man who cheats on his wife/girlfriend is an NPD". If it were true for the man, then it would need to be true for the woman also. And if it were true for both of them, there would be a LOT of NPDs!! After all, there are a lot of cheaters out there .

But there is a name for it...how about:

Unfaithful
Infidelity
Etc...

Nevertheless, in the NPD forum (and many places), a man who cheats gets the 'N' card.

Another thing is a man who watches porn:

"And my ex "n" spent like two hours every night just sitting there watching porn...".

But there is a name for this too...how about:

Porn addiction

Nevertheless, they continue to attach this to NPD-even though psychology labels it as porn addiction, the wounded woman will label it as NPD.

Then, there is the physically abusive man...

"My ex "n" hit me".

But there is a name for physically abusive behavior too:

Violent behavior
Dangerous Behavior
Etc. (consider the term 'anger management')

NPD's, as you mentioned, seldom break the law (this is the common consensus at least), and being physically violent is breaking the law. Plus, it is not a trait they use to diagnose NPD, yet wounded women continually use this as a trait to diagnose their exes as an "n"...then their friends agree with them.

A man who beats his ex is certainly:

A jerk
An as*hole
Unreasonable
Unfair

And he may be:

A drug addict
An alcoholic
A gambler

But this alone does not make him:

An NPD

True, the woman beater may be an NPD...but violent dangerous acts are simply not traits of NPD so they would need other traits that are actually authentic traits of NPD to diagnose him as NPD.

You were also spot on about the type of NPD being white collar professionals. A lot of NPD case studies talk about:

Lawyers
Doctors
Counselors (the helping profession is loaded with them, and what better place for the covert 'n'? A perfect place to hide their true self so they can portray a false identity by masquerading as a counselor of some sort).
Successful Businesspeople

Again, as we fully consider this and attempt to synchronize these same personality types being described on the typical 'n' forum...we simply rarely see it.

Now, what you said about the HPD's extreme idealization and devaluation really stood out to me as being a distinct cluster b trait that described the HPD much more than the other pd's. I thank you for pointing it out the way you did. I never thought of that, that this behavior is a classic HPD tactic. I feel the way you described it too, that this idealization/devaluation phase is an HPD signature.

BPD can be looked at from two entirely different perspectives:

1) What BPD does to the nons
2) What BPD does to the one who has it

Each perspective is an entirely different. For example, when I visit the BPD forum from time to time to read what the posters are saying, it doesn't seem like BPD at all to me. Why? Because they mainly describe what its doing to them. If I was in a non BPD support group, or on a non forum, I would be hearing of the covert nature of how the BPD emotionally abuses people, how the BPD split, etc.

A lot of stories I read here on the BPD forum sound like they are describing bi-polar or manic depression and not a pd (again, they are telling the story from a different perspective). Plus, it is factual that BPD is often mistaken as manic depression/bi-polar, and vice versa. This means that many BPDers are misdiagnosed as having manic depression, and that many people with manic depression are misdiagnosed with having BPD.

Of course, this must also mean there are many similarities between BPD and bi-polar/manic depression-provided the BPD perspective is solely focused on the person possessing the disorder.

Anyway, what you said about the BPD being smothering is true, and there is a certain softness of the BPD that does make one wonder if the BPD has empathy. It is for this purpose, IMO, that men have a more difficult time leaving the BPD than the other pd's (when it comes to long term relationships...not just sex), because the BPD woman has this wonderful side, this romantically deep side that is hard to explain. It is so easy to connect with them emotionally...so easy, and I feel it makes it harder for a man to leave them. We always 'hope' that there will be remission, or that they will get better with age. The thing is, I think these are some of the reasons the BPD is so toxic.

I feel they seldom do have empathy (although more than the other pds), yet they have a counterfeit way of representing themselves that is PERFECT for making it appear that they have empathy. Sometimes they look so fragile, lost...and these are some of their features that cause us to put our guard down, to read more into some of their apologies and gestures than is really there.

In the end, they emotionally tear people apart just like any other pd-they just have their own unique way of doing it. They drive people nuts (this is more often than not referred to as "the crazy behavior making pd"), they emotionally drain you, they wear you down, they split, they gaslight, they covertly try to employ control tactics...and yet it is often difficult for a person to leave them.

The HPD I went out with was certainly gorgeous on the outside...completely flawless, extremely attention grabbing, fashionable in every sense, but it was easy for me to leave her once I realized who she was...how empty she was. I didn't shed one single tear. Instead, I got angry and hated her. I felt she was a loser, a bum, a moron, a complete nobody beneath her appearance (and one day her beauty will begin to fade...it only takes a few extra pounds or her having a child...a few years older perhaps), and she was uneducated.

The BPD I felt was my best friend. I loved her so much. She was like my family. She was more than family to me, as she was a part of me. I loved her more than I loved myself, and I loved her because I wanted to. I wasn't tricked. I wanted to love her. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, to build a future with her, to grow old with her. I could sense something was wrong with her, and within myself I began to feel she was emotionally or mentally handicapped somehow, but I told myself that a handicap would not ever stop me from loving her. Then, her emotions began to turn on "me". Rages began, splitting began...as it became more pronounced the closer we got to each other. I knew to keep her meant losing myself. So, I ended the relationship (together almost four years...four years of trying reduced to nothing), and unlike the HPD...I did shed a tear. I cried and cried and cried...just like a little baby.

So, I guess this is one of the differences of the BPD and HPD...I miss the BPD, and I hope she is doing well. I had no choice to end it, and when I did she raged anyway...so I no contacted her. The HPD had far more power to capture a man's attention, but the BPD had way more power to capture a man's heart.

well put, orion- I could see all of my experiences in your postings, I guess for the exception of one. in my relationship with the BPD, I did not feel 'in control' at all. his outbursts were so unpredictable that it set me on edge, always trying to predict the unpredictable ahead of time to minimize the consequences. it never worked. my own life felt like it was rapidly spinning out of control in trying to cope with it. your descrpition of the breakup was spot on though - when I tried to leave he became an obsessive stalker, when I met him once in person after the breakup he assaulted me.

everything else you described, though, is almost exactly what I experienced. it gave me a lot of insight! thanks for the great post.

johnny, I could relate to your post as well. the BPD was much easier to love in the end, even through devaluation cycles. in my case I think I loved him more because he had empathy and actually cared that he had hurt me, while my HPD friend had none.

Thanks treetop, johnnymac for agreements and disagreements. So many facets, combinations and permutations; really when you think about it no two people with the same PD are exactly the same; more often they are significantly different.

Johnny, one thing I think you hit right on is that NPD's, being intelligent and somewhat predatory, are often cryptic by nature. For one thing, while they don't really believe that anything is wrong with them, they do know that a lot of folks won't approve of them, so they do like to remain covert. Maybe that is why the NPD forum seems kinda one-dimensional, compared to the wider range of topics, relative warmth, and more frequent attempts at self-awareness seen here in the HPD forum.

I think the greatest challenge to psychiatry will always be the narcissistic line (DSM V: narcissism, NPD, Malignant Narcissist, and AsPD). These folks are suffering and in pain like any other PD, but their rock-hard defense is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with themselves. Ironically, it's others that bear witness and experience the pain and sorrow of their disorder, since the narcissists usually muffle their own cries for help.

orion8591 wrote:Johnny, one thing I think you hit right on is that NPD's, being intelligent and somewhat predatory, are often cryptic by nature. For one thing, while they don't really believe that anything is wrong with them, they do know that a lot of folks won't approve of them, so they do like to remain covert. Maybe that is why the NPD forum seems kinda one-dimensional, compared to the wider range of topics, relative warmth, and more frequent attempts at self-awareness seen here in the HPD forum.

This is a really interesting post, because it hasn't been mentioned (in the NPD forum at least).


When you say "one-dimensional", what do you mean?

orion's summary of each looks really good!

A brief version/guideline might be:

BPD - I have no sense of self-esteem. I'm afraid of being alone. I'm afraid others will abandon me. When others agree with me, help me, they are good people and I'm (very) happy! When not they are bad people, and I'm (very) sad/angry!

HPD - I have no sense of self-esteem. I need attention and validation from as many others as possible! The more I receive, the better I feel about myself.

NPD - I love myself and only myself. Other people are stupid, worthless, I don't need their approval to feel good about myself because I'm special!

There is of course a lot more complexity in real life, and people with personality disorders don't strictly fit any categorization.

xdude wrote:NPD - I love myself and only myself. Other people are stupid, worthless, I don't need their approval to feel good about myself because I'm special!.

No, not exactly. This is the external impression that someone with narcissistic traits might want to project but it is most certainly not true of the image they hold of themselves. The image they hold of themselves isn't much different from those fitting the Borderline diagnosis except they may hide this, even from themselves. The main differnce is the coping techniques, the way someone with narcissistic traits compensates for the image they hold of themselves; it is to project out the opposite image on to the world.

Simon Attwood wrote:

xdude wrote:NPD - I love myself and only myself. Other people are stupid, worthless, I don't need their approval to feel good about myself because I'm special!.

No, not exactly. This is the external impression that someone with narcissistic traits might want to project but it is most certainly not true of the image they hold of themselves. The image they hold of themselves isn't much different from those fitting the Borderline diagnosis except they may hide this, even from themselves. The main differnce is the coping techniques, the way someone with narcissistic traits compensates for the image they hold of themselves; it is to project out the opposite image on to the world.

I agree. It's possible that all of the issues are rooted in lack of self-esteem, and the person dealing with NPD compensates with the black & white reverse.

Good post! I've dated a BPD and currently dating an HPD.

The HPD will put make-up on first thing and then go for a shower, so concerned with her appearance and constantly commenting on my white skin versus her golden tan. The BPD was stunning naturally and very subtly made herself look amazing, as any girl would but dressed very classy and professional at all times. BPD was stunning and it looked effortless while the HPD tried hard, always wore make-up and usually a low cut short dress.. slightly more trashy than classy.

Walking into bars the HPD would be grabbed at and always chatted up. She thought it was due to her good looks but it was more the way she made herself look (available, up for it) and her big welcoming smile. The BPD would never give people the time of day in a bar, she wasn't interested in being chatted up at all. At work she would smile at everyone and be very nice, but nobody got to know her properly.

Perhaps the biggest change is the BPD seemed to have no friends at all. Well, she had one friend who she saw maybe once every 6 months, work friends who she saw only for the odd drink after work, and her sister who she spoke to weekly but rarely saw. I think her BB messenger had her mother, sister and one work mate on it, nobody else. In contrast, the HPD has quite a few close friends and quite a few extended, clearly has had good friendships in the past. Although, perhaps by no surprise she has lots of male friends. She calls them good friends but I suspect she has slept with quite a few and I answered the phone to one a few weeks ago at 4am.. clearly he was seeing if she was single and up for it still... although surprisingly the line went dead. The next day she claims to have text him back and he was trying to ring his Dad or something like that. I believed it at the time although highly suspect.

BPD and HPD both fell in 'love' quite quickly. The BPD was perfect at everything for the first 6 months. Sex was amazing and I found us both playing golf, watching football, gambling and afternoon drinking... quite literally my perfect partner. She didnt put a foot wrong and I thought I was in heaven. Until she dropped me like a stone on holiday a week before she was moving in with me...! The HPD said early on that she doesn't believe in a honeymoon period and what you see is what you get. This was rather refreshing to being with although in reality is just another red flag.

Both come from broken homes although BPD"s absent father was a judge and HPD's parents very successful. The BPD was significantly more intelligent and very very quick to tell me when I did something wrong... and not see keen to realise when she did something wrong. A final argument was her persistently calling me stupid for not knowing how to work the grill and claiming it wouldn't cook with the door open... it did and she dumped me the day after! BPD was a higher achiever and she lit up every room, people liked her a lot (although some did comment there was nothing behind the eyes) and it was all her own defence system to letting friends get near her that she was a loner and once said she didn't like people. The HPD on the other hand was entirely different. I more fear we'll be out in a club and she'll be drunk, get chatted up and leave with the bloke there and then... wouldn't put it past her although i have her card marked!

Anyhow... rambling a bit but there you go!

was she hpd? Really? not just a shallw attention whore?

It takes YEARS AND YEARS for men to forget me
they want to stay with me for longg time and
they miss me for long/endless time and want to get me back

Shallowness? oh god. who is shallow here? Nons who grew up happily under the protection of parents or US who've been through abuses and pains etc in our life?

I know a lot of interesting things, knowledge, things other ppl rarely know,
I have tried a various kind of interesting things which normal ppl would have not bothered to,

I invent and try a lot of thrilling and sexy ways to arouse him daily,
I talk, I sing, I play the musical instruments, I dance for him in an extremely impressive way,

I keep looking for things through which I can impress him in a new way every day,
I study hard, develop myself with a great effort to be liked,
I speak 4 languages fluently like almost native, and work on new languages and new field of study now,
I usually study and develop myself 24 hours. (study part is unique because of my environment, I was just in an cultural/family environment that made me to work hard on it. and honestly it became almost impossible to study anything in non's definition of 'study' for my hpd is fully developing.)

and more than anything

I am sweet genuinely
I really have an angelic nature even if I act like arrogant or naughty often (LIKE NOW LOL)
I really have a good nature which care for him and other people and people NON's don't love.

before my hpd was developed, when I was a child, I was really an angel lol(selfless, humble, genuine, honest, empathizing, forgiving, kind to everyone, no discrimination, trust, etc)

And I know some hpds, and some of them are REALLY angel.
(there are not angel ones too but I don't know, they may be angel inside)

And
MOST OF ALL, MOST IMPORTANTLY,
the LOOK.

this kind of things, make men and women, unable to, not like me,

HPD has a unique position among the personality disorders in that it is the only personality disorder explicitly connected to a patient's physical appearance. Researchers have found that HPD appears primarily in men and women with above-average physical appearances. http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hi ... z1iP6nmN6I

This is the only personality disorder connected to a person’s physical appearance and hence it stands out from other disorders in a special way. According to the studies conducted by experts it is proved that histrionic personality disorder occurs primarily among men and women with above average physical appearances.
http://www.thirdworldpapa.com/2011/how- ... y-disorder

and endless and endless researches that hpds appear only to those with above-average look
we have an AMAZING LOOK you just can't imagine.


HPDs are LOVELY and YOU CANNOT ESCAPE FROM US

If you got fed up with her,

it's one of either

she INTENDED IT

or

she is NOT A HPD

HPDs who agree with me say,

'I agree!' or 'I don't agree!'


Let me have some arrogant thread sometimes.
HPDs are only criticized here most of othrer times.
we need to ascend our self esteem!


when I am too depressed, I just work on removing my charms 24 hours like eating and being snarky and being irrational

by the way,

why I became $#%^ now?

I was attractive, I was brilliant,

and why I am abandoned now?

oh... no hope in life... give it back to me... things I missed.... give me... my precious...



*suicide*

I have to die. I need to kill myself.
I am a liar.
I am just a loser.
I am a #######4 liar

I have to die.

help me?

:'O help help help help save me.

come and save me.