How do you know if a HPD person tells the truth?

I think Scarlett is on to something here. There are far too many people who lie in order to gain the interest of the opposite sex…in fact, if most of us do not lie, we simply leave parts of the truth out in fear of being judged too harshly right from the start…besides, much of what we leave out is not something you should share with someone you’ve just met.

I think the big factor that most of us need to stay on track here is that people suffering from HPD will display something extraordinarily insecure and disruptive to both the relationship and themselves. Cheating and lying are things that non-disordered people do on a daily basis, it’s the motive behind these activities that separate PDs from Nons.
Below are a couple of links I stumbled on last night. The Red Flags link has a slew of BPD related references at the end. Essentially, non-PDs tend not to do many/most of these things to their relationships.

You may choose to exchange “he” for “she”… or not.

Emotional Abuse: http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/emotional_abuse.shtml
Various links to codependency/Control : http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/manip.shtml
Red Flags: http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/redflaglist.shtml

it is true that many people exaggerate themselves when first getting into a relationship.. but not all people do. some people are brutally honest from the beginning, and those who are usually end up with the most 'solid' relationships, because both parties knew who they were really dealing with, there is no guesswork or 'fantasy' filling in the gaps.

I think, the main difference between non and HP, is that the HP will exaggerate more frequently, and in a more extreme way. some dishonest nons may lie about age, a past relationship, ect, by changing a few small details here and there; but an HP will completely rewrite their history with each new person they meet - the 'mirroring' of another person's interests is extreme. nons typically only do this with people they have a romantic interest in.. HP's will do it with virtually anyone - the guy that bags their groceries, their new neighbor down the street.. ect, ect.. just because the HP's need for validation is much larger than the average non's need for validation.

Treetop - YOU ARE SOO RIGHT!

The mirroring is so obvious. My exbff would do that. For example: she is dating this guy right now, and at the beginning he asked her why she moved to where I live. She said that SHE WAS FROM HERE!!! WTF? Odd, but what I was getting at is he is really into a certain diet. It's like being a Vegan pretty much, but it has some other name. 3 weeks after just hanging out with him, she was all of a sudden on the exact same diet. Wouldn't shut up about it. It was her LIFE. It's an extreme diet too. This girl went from eating anything and everything, to acting like the pickiest snob on the planet to impress this dude.

Also, I think that as a Non, when it comes to what we reveal in relationships..it all depends. There are things that I would not lie about, but I wouldn't just outright offer up the info. It's the past. I guess I'm talking more about sexual history. It's just not a topic that will ever make the other person feel better, ya know? I feel as long as everyone is clean and healthy, then that topic can remain private.
But you are very much correct in how HPD's rewrite their lives. Case in point what I mentioned above...all of a sudden HPD is from here?! Crazy.
What was interesting was when I called her on the lie, she just denied it. Made the person who told me sound like they were trying to make her look like a liar, and "why would she say that? it's NOT true?" - Exactly, why would you? I think I have the excuses she lied out somewhere, but I really don't care to look at see what they were. Basically, when called on lies it's always deny, deny, deny.

I think this is really only the case with extremes because I never did that. I would omit but not tell tall tales to impress. I never changed anything I liked for the other one that I was with. I've had the same loves of things before anyone. There things I might have tried that I learn to like or enjoy but it doesn't become an obsession or like I've done it all my life etc etc. I know these kind though because I have a sister that has done this with every man she's with. Never watched football in her life but because her man was she was a total football freak. When we asked her when she started to like football she claimed she always had. We(me and other siblings) were like ok then we never heard that out of her before.

Another guy comes along into nascar and suddenly she's ALWAYS been a nascar fan with pictures and poster all over everywhere in her living room. POSTERS. She's two years older than me and I'm 35 and this was only bout four years ago.

Gets with an army guy and she knows ALL about army cuz are dad was in it. Bragging this or that our dad blah blah blah.

Then she gets with a new guy think he was in airforce and suddenly its talk talk talk of all of that and she knows all of it.

And we all love my sister but she could get anymore NPD/HPD even tho she doesn't have a diagnosis.

With me I don't obsess about aging. I dread it a little but I know its coming. Its inevitable and we all will and no stopping it.

She has no clue she has aged nor that she will ever age and continues to do what the kids do what they wear bikinis etc when sshe don't quite have it anymore. It is sad really.

I've thot about telling her of HPD but she would be in denial and never admit it. She can't handle any type of rejection or critisism. So what I do is point out things she does when she has problems and not let her by with drama with me and basically giver the symptom list without telling her the name.

She does falsify/lie a lot. She will use the word "abuse" to suit what she wants to put off on others. She said she's being abused I say how she said she didn't really want to talk of it. And she text ME! I said if u are get out. She said she still loves him.

I said other things truthful things she didn't want to here and she didn't talk to me for months.

Next text I get she's happy with her man again.

Sorry for spelling and shorthand but I'm on my bb.

I think you're right, scarlett.. some may be more extreme than others, just like with depression, for example - different severity of symptoms.

I could be wrong here, but it almost seems the more severe the symptoms of HP are, the more in-denial the person is.. perhaps because their protective 'walls' are built up that much higher, and it takes a full on major crisis for the person to realize how their behavior is affecting them and others. for those with milder symptoms, self-introspection seems to come a bit more naturally.

I think so too Treetop. It has to be that we are correct based on some of the stuff we know have happened in our lives and with stories we compare them to on this board. We've seen EXTREME behavior and we've seen mild behavior and some in between.

And I was just helping a friend today as she is going through a divorce. We were discussing things her husband does and he seems up and down and all around on his emotions and perhaps displays Bipolar traits, etc.

I told her I think his mind STAYED EMOTIONALLY at the age he was when he was traumatized as a kid. That is the same thing we have said about my older sister for years that she lost her innocense at a very young age and STAYED at that age emotionally.

The tantrums, the pouting, the childlike behavior, doing opposite of what you know is right just to rebel(like most kids do), insisting on getting your way, and a number of other things that are similar in where they are at emotionally.

And if you could peel these people back like a banana and get to the inner fruit of them, you would find THAT CHILD that was scarred and left emotionally there with the walls up so tight that even their brain can't process that it is THEM with the problem, not the outside world.

My sister WILL NOT listen to anyone that points out ANY ill behavior she has. She insults people all the time and when confronted she says they should not be so sensitive. BUT when someone even teases her about getting older or her gaining weight (which she won't because she has suffered from eating disorders to remain so small you can hardly recognize her) SHE will go balistic and tell how she has a 1000 guys hitting on her and telling her how hot and sexy she is and won't talk to that person after that for months.

When I was pregnant with my three kids I was a BALLOON!!! TRUST ME!! ha But I was very happy being pregnant and never cared how fat I got. That is something I know that I don't have the strongest of HPD because my focus was never on myself when pregnant. It was like a light switch to another mode all together. BUT everyone teased me bout how big I was and I could laugh with them. EVEN my sister teased me. BUT when SHE was pregnant NO ONE could even mention the word weight or she would burst into tears. She also had a meltdown when she turned 21 because was getting older. And heck, I'm 35 and haven't had a meltdown over bdays yet. I don't like people to make a fus over them, but I sure don't break down.

Yep..everyone lies and not so honest...and munipulate

PD's drive it to the extreme.....

Ha ha, posters. It's a funny mental image because I am picturing those huge ones you buy from WalMart.

Anyways, I've noticed that HPD's have a Peter Pan type mentality. I would mention that she should take better care of herself, i.e. Not drink 3 bottles of wine every night + several bourbons. And the response I got was "You're only young once!" - Um, honey, you're no spring chicken.

Also, I saw a lot of made up illnesses. She had endometryosis (sp?), scoliosis (actually that was true, you could see how crooked her back was just standing), etc etc...and each one was exacerbated to the EXTREME. When she was 18 she apparently only had 2 years left to have children because the endo was so bad...but she had 3 abortions. Actually, not sure to be honest. She would tell dudes she was pregnant to try and trap them, or to get money out of them.

She would also tell guys she was on birth control and she wasn't.

yeah.. I think the Peter Pan mentality is more pronounced in those with the most severe symptoms.. my friend, at 30, is much like that - still believing she's a teenager. she's dressing in teenage clothes, still going out and partying a lot and not taking care of her responsibilities, arguing (and sassing) her mom for petty things, ect. I think the teen (or even the late adolescent - middle school) years is where her development is 'stuck' at. many of her 'gossip tidbits' reminded me of being straight back in middle school, listening to the 'popular girl' make fun of some poor unfortunate other. lol.

she also has physical illnesses, but exaggerates them to the extreme and claims she can't hold down a job for long because of her illnesses.. doubtful, she's able to be out partying, having sex with numerous partners.. so obviously she's able to get around movement-wise, she should be able to work in a job that requires some movement (not hard physical labor, obviously, but hard physical labor jobs are rare these days anyway). I gave her the suggestion of getting a sit-down job instead, if she got too tired standing or moving around... the response? I can't sit down all day, it hurts my back. (yet, she would spend days or even weeks at a time sitting at her computer or sitting at the TV for entertainment purposes.) so I think a lot of her illness exaggerations were not only to get sympathy from people, but also to avoid working and taking on adult responsibilities.

my friend, too, would claim she was unable to have children, but the reasons why changed from week to week. first, it was because she had had an abortion in her teens, then, it was because she broke her pelvis in a car accident. she'd often tell this 'unable to have children' story when others talked about their children.. trying to deflect the conversation back to 'her' and 'her issues', is the way I saw it. she wouldn't tell the story outright, though, she'd give it a little build-up by first sighing loudly, then if no one noticed the sigh, she'd then start out saying mournfully, "oh, I wish I could have children." and waiting for her audience to ask, why, what happened, are you ok?