How do you know if a HPD person tells the truth?

How can I stop my mother telling lies about my father, who is dead and can't say 'that's not true' himself anymore.
I feel bad as she talks bad about my father who was an anxious, but very sincere person.
I want her to stop talking bad about my father. He does not deserve that. And like one of you say above, it's even for me difficult sometimes to NOT to believe her lies. I have to keep in mind what she said and done before and to believe in my father who was sincere.

There's actually more to it than "How do you know if a HPD person tells the truth". Once I gained an understanding of HP and their propensity to lie, then everything she said was suspect, I simply worked from the basis that everything she said may be a lie. As others have said, an HP will lie when there's really no need to, sometimes they lie for validation of their self-esteem, and with their inability to feel guilt or regret, they will lie to avoid the most terrifying emotion, shame.

Mine actually repeated Jack Nicholson's line, "I always tell some version of the truth", and she really meant it! An example: towards the end of our relationship, I observed her basking in attention from a guy at a party and obviously reflecting a high level of attention. Later, I sorted the event in my head and then questioned her about it. "No, I wasn't flirting with him, he was a friend of my brother, that's all, you're sick". Flirting in her conversation was second nature, and in her distorted mind she could easily lie and gaslight, because he really was friends with her brother, and the fact that she's now married to him is irrelevant; her brother was his friend.

After the end, I came to understand that it really doesn't matter if they lie about what they ate, or drank, or their whereabouts because the very basis of their continued presence is a lie, they're not with a non out of love or appreciation of our qualities, they're merely continuing the relatioship until we're left lifeless.

The tolerance of their lies and deceit is what decimates our self-esteem and proves to be the most difficult to recover from.

Jay Mack Wrote:

The tolerance of their lies and deceit is what decimates our self-esteem and proves to be the most difficult to recover from.

Well put Jay Mack. They do know what they do.

The hard part is getting over being made such a foul. People want to believe those they love and are the easiest to decieve. They want to believe. That is the crux of it.

When you find out about the deceit, first handed, it hits like a ton of bricks.

well said, ok. the deceit is able to continue, because "people want to believe!"

that, I found, was my biggest downfall in my relationship with an hpd friend.. I WANTED to believe she was truly a kind-hearted person, that she was who she presented herself to be, and she held the viewpoints that she claimed to hold. I wanted to believe this, because I had an emotional investment in the relationship and I had empathy for her.. so I was quick to discount early signs of her deceit as "some kind of mix-up or misunderstanding", "some terrible person out for unfounded revenge against her", or, my own personal favorite rationalization I used, "she didn't really mean it that way, perhaps me/others are just being too sensitive or paranoid."

and the hpd.. COUNTS on those rationalizations made by the nons so their facade can be drawn out longer... and even plays up to those rationalizations they lead the non to make. they push guilt buttons (my friend's attempts to push my guilt buttons - I'm sooo sick, I can't get out of bed, I'm going to the hospital.. ect, ect - when really she flaked out on plans because she was wooing other supply sources, but she knew I would excuse flakiness if I felt sorry for her 'medical issues'), they make generalizations that are purposely misleading (example - when I spoke with those people, we had fun, but somehow I feel they are being shady), or, of course, the establishment of the 'us against the world' mentality so you feel as though you are defending yourself when you are defending them. (example - no one understands people like us, we have to stick together.)

TreeTop,

At least you see over the tree tops now! lol

Many non's on here ignored the red flags, as it is human nature and normal to give people the benefit of the doubt. That trust is mutiplied ten times when we actually care for someone. Too bad we are left with this oxymoron in society. Makes no sense, but it is what it is.

We all come to be a little wiser though, that's the good thing.

My ex has been diagnosed. She had a breakdown and all came out. So for me her pain was closure. Abviously all these lies eat them up and a matter of time before it catches up to them. Hard to get through life pretending to be something your not and live with all the lies. No person can keep that mask or if they do, it will slowly eat them up.

I do have great faith in her recovery, but a little wiser! I don't take what she says for granted.

Terrible thing, disorders, but nice to see those that want to change , work at it. Those that don't, are to be avoided.

On another note: Seems the forum has been over run with HPD's. Not a good thing. I think I created a monster, by suggesting "how we attract more HPD's." thread. Hopefully more Non's will join to keep the balance and point out flawed behavior, and can provide some normal feedback.

OK

A: You don't have to be intelligent to be a good liar, you just need an over loving and caring person to fall for it. My red flags were, when the ex was out or away all the time, and not answering calls. But, in general, if they're not talking about something they are genuinely interested in, their talking vacuous attention seeking #######4.

It takes great strength and courage to change our thought patterns after being with a HPD for so long. I thought I had enough cognitive strength to move on, but the other day I found out more guys my ex was fu*king, and this sent me back down to anger and rage, and not forgetting a plummet of self-esteem.

I feel better now after a couple of crippling days. Im starting to realise to use this anger in a positive light. What I have been saying to myself is, 'what needs to be changed, and how am I going to DO this'. I just focus on myself and where I want to go in life. It brings back my power. The only way is to be very strict with yourselves on what you think. That old adage, "What you think is your world".

What I think of HPD's who don't want to be free of their ailments is, they are a waste of space in this world - we need more good people and more conscious ways of living. people who have HPD live like subconscious robots. Like some kind of insect living an existence based on their basic drives. I have empathy for them, but no time in my life.

The lies are the number one red flag, and I'll bet that most of the nons who got wise to their partners' weirdness did so for the simple reason that the latters' stories weren't lining up. And how many of us found out specifically about HPD by googling "pathological liar"? I know I did. For that reason, I'm grateful that my ex lied as intensively (and often gratuitously) as she did.

I agree with Jaymac, you just have to always proceed from the assumption that you're being lied to in regard to everything.

EarthRooster,

I know it smarts and pisses you off, and so you deserve to get angry as hell for awhile.

But don't let it ruin your self-esteem for too long, as you are not the one fouling yourself. She is and will continue to do so.

You are no longer anyones foul....

treetop wrote:I'm no expert run, but I suspect.. you can't tell if they are telling the truth at any given point and time, because they're good actors and manipulators. unless you were there, experiencing the experience/hearing the conversation in question, then you can never be sure you've got the whole, correct story. I think, at some level they do know they are lying/manipulating (and at times make very calculated moves to achieve their goals), at another level it's just second nature to do so, and they don't even think about what they're doing - it just comes as a knee-jerk, natural reaction. As a natural reaction.. my HPD friend would often lie about things that were clearly a lie, that she had no reason to lie about. like if she had a sprite, and you saw her drink a sprite, and she later insisted she drank a mellow yellow instead - almost like she lied 'just for the pleasure of lying and getting away with it' at times - because really nobody cares what soda she drank.

sometimes the HPD may have even convinced themselves that 'their truth' is right.. because the lying/manipulation is such a deep-seated protection mechanism, a cover up to hide their true selves.

you can't stop a person from manipulating others if they are using it as a tool to protect themselves, as the HPD does. basically if they aren't able to manipulate you anymore, they move on to someone they can manipulate, and the cycle continues. the only thing that stops the cycle is the HPD person themselves seeking help and making an effort to change.

Treetop is DEAD ON with the lying/manipulating being very calculated moves to achieve our goals. Sometimes we lie to add a little bit of drama to our lives and often it is just in our own head which is why we lie about the damdest little things. Just to give our own brain a little boost of satisfaction on getting away with a lie in the here and now even if it's just a little one all the while we are preparing for the big ones we are working with our sources of supply.

Further on down the post
Starsandsrtipes asked:
but how do they keep up with the lies? If they have different supplies, and are manipulating who knows how many people all at once, who can keep up with what lies are told to who?
It just seems so exhausting to remember the lies, remembering who to be mad at for some made up reason, and who is on the "to use next" list. Seems like a full time job.

The lies are easy to keep up with if everyone hears the same lie, it makes it easier to be reminded of the lie with each source of supply. Sometimes it gets to the point where I even start to believe the lie over what I know is reality.
Yes, it can be exhausting but that's part of the draw to it, it's exciting to see a hard earned plan come together.

Well you all may or may not agree with me on this, but I will say it anyway...

You can never tell if ANYONE is telling the truth. Not with just HPs or just with NONs or another disordered person or even a crazy person. When you meet someone for the first time, are you the type of person to just naturally believe what they say??

EX: If a random person walks into a store and says they just witnessed a shooting on the way there to the store, and tells the details blah blah blah. Most people are inclined to believe such a story because who would make up such an awful story?? And another person walks in and says THEY just witnessed a shooting on the way there and tells THEIR VERSION of the story blah blah blah. Well it is likely that such an event took place, but you will however have TWO DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS of that story and depending on the people telling the stories of how similar or how utterly different it could be.

When the accounts are TOTAL differences and you think how could one person get it one way and the other get it so different? Well our emotional response is the first thing that filters in us before the actual reasoning so therefore as my husband always says, there is THIS PERSONS account, ANOTHER PERSONs account and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I am not one that just believes any person just because they are having something come out of their mouth. And if I KNOW the person I sure take that into consideration whether I beleive ANYTHING out of their mouth. We have one woman at work that when she starts talking, most everyone on the side sort of rolls their eyes because no one believes anything she has said.

BUT everyone wants to believe that HPDs mostly lie more so than the average person. Perhaps that is true, but what HPDs do in life in general that lure in those around us, is no different than what most people do on a daily basis in the romance department of "fluffing up" ourselves to make us sound better than we are. this is HPS AND NONS alike. This is online, in person, on the phone, or on the street. Some might suck in their gut to make it appear they watch their weight, some may tell of a horrible story of their ex to automatically explain why they are either single or divorced, some may want to feel rescued by that "man" right away because they are a single woman, lonely, etc.

Look at mostly the online dating stuff and most of you probably know someone that has or have done it yourself. Probably you will find that most everyone "fluffed" just a little on their profiles. Mostly I can see the top item for lying would be weight and the next one age. They feel if they post a certain number on there, that automatically they will be ruled out when the search is narrowed for a certain limit.

Then relationship information is "fluffed",

Then financial or professional life is "fluffed" just a little.

Then probably racial, ethnic, or religious backgrounds mostly want to remain unknown until they can "meet" someone then let them get to know them before voicing these things. JUST SO they don't get RULED OUT of that NARROWED SEARCH.

SOO which means that millions of people "fluff themselvs up" to SOUND BETTER, LOOK BETTER, and BE MORE SOUGHT AFTER so that they can FIND A MATE.

This is similar to what HPs are good at yes, but lying is lying. A little white lie is no better than the full fledge malicious lie. But you will find that most HPs do not MALICIOUSLY lie. When they feel they are going to be painted unflattering, they tend to OMIT rather than lie first. Then if they absolutely have to they will LIE to not sound as bad or of course to get out of trouble.

Yes children do this too as we have pointed out that a lot of HPs are STUCK in that emotional immaturity stage of an adolescent, therefore they do a lot of the things kids do when caught in a lie. BUT, a lot of NONS do this too.

AFFAIRS?? the first thing out of the mouth of a man cheating on his wife is, THAT ISN'T TRUE even though there are texts, pictures, messages, phone calls to and from the number of the woman he is cheating with. He will INSIST he doesn't know that woman, never had sex with her, never knew her UNTIL all the EVIDENCE is laid out on the table in front of him to make him acknowlede SHE (the wife) KNOWS he had an affair. Then as with most of the more famous accounts in the media of affaris is HE BREAKS DOWN, has a true confessions time, and instead of just saying, I lusted after a woman wanted to sleep with her and did, and I am an awful person for doing it, All of a sudden that man has a SEX ADDICTION!! Well no offense men, but I don't know ANY MAN that doesn't have a sex addiction if that is what it takes for a man to lust after women to sleep with them. haha That is only SORT OF a joke.

Heck, I could say my husband is a SEX addict if that is the case because the second my shirt comes off or sometimes just cause he is THINKING about my shirt coming off, he wants me. (just adding a little humor there)

It is NOT the same as the TRUE SEX ADDICTS that actually go for help. There are TRUE PEOPLE with problems, but it seems as though society has let us believe that because someone cheats they have an ADDICTION.

Not only HPS or disordered people have affairs.

My point being is in relation to the actual topic of this thread is how do you know if an HPD is telling the truth???

Well I say How do you know when ANYONE is telling the truth???

By the time you experience the actual "AHH HA" moment that something wasn't right, either in the HP or the Non, you pretty well have SOME TYPE of emotional investment in that person to even know if what they are saying is the truth. And you WANT to believe them and believe IN THEM. Who WANTS to believe right off the bat that a person tells you your beautiful that they are liying?? Of course you want to believe when they tell you they love you and will take care of you for the rest of your life. Who wouldnt'?

If we could see the very early redflags in people then there wouldn't be near the divorce rate that we have in this country.
We would have enough time to say, WHOOOA! STOP!! ABOUT FACE!! AND RUN!!!

Just my two cents.
S