He kicked me out... (trigger for the nons?)

Sans,

I know you are frustrated but all this was foretold to you. You are just opening the hood on yourself. This is just getting interesting. As I told you before - many BPD therapists with deep experience in this disorder want you to see two therapists at a time, just because its so very typical that you have a large blow out with one or the other (and sometimes that flips!).

Still, don't wimp out here. Hang in!

>>And my speech patterns at this point are rapid because this mood has me and I'm worked up. Wisdom, I raged a bit for you!

Sans, I'm so very happy for you! This is a MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH!!! You don't like it, it doesn't "feel good" (but perhaps it may start to...). Being able to work yourself into a full blown rage right at this guy (within the safe four walls of a licensed, reputable therapist, experienced in PDs) is just about the very BEST thing that can happen!

>He kind of looked at me and told me he didn't know if I should come back. I was really knocked off balance with that.

This guy is brilliant! He's working you Sans!!! Looks like he finally touched you off! Hurray for him, 10 points!

I smell an inner fear of abandonment (big time) and this is it! You are close to overcoming much of that but do NOT BACK DOWN NOW!!! It’s like a karate chop - you must strike through and believe, or you will just end up really hurting your hand! LOL!

>Disorder ... w/ power, control, sex and love issues.

Sort of hits it on the head! Doesn’t it. The "not elsewhere specified" part is admittedly speculative at best. Still, this is 99% spot on. This guy knows the score! We are talking attachment issues, and all that flows from that. If you want to call it “mood disorder” “bi-polar” “histrionic” or “borderline” its all basically the same thing. Who cares?

>You would be here in therapy for YEARS.

Gee Sans, I'd say you broke through his shell. Finally got him to say actually what you have wanted him all along to say. Its not a quick “situational adjustment” you have that in a few months just magically resolves. This one takes more work to push back.

BTW, did I mention above I'm so very happy for you that you raged at him???? I'm still so incredibly elated that you could do that. That’s major. Keep doing that!

>Guess I learned my lesson- don't be honest with therapists!

Not at all! If that’s what you think the lesson was, you "missed". You tell the truth and keep telling it till BOTH of you understand! (Or at least you understand AND YOU ARE SATISFIED. No exit till YOU are satisfied!)

Sounds like this guy pinned you to the floor Sans. He told you the truth - it will take years. And you will need to want to change or all that will be wasted. He is not going to put up with session after session of you "gloating" to him over the more disordered parts of your behavior. It’s like he's saying – “Sans - no pain no gain" and all you are doing is repeating hitting him over the head with your bad behavior asking him to perform weekly psycho "dialysis". (Sucking out the weekly poop, putting a fresh ban-aid on a wound that won’t heal, and getting you to just barely survive for possibly another week. ) That just drains a professional therapist.

I thought this session was going really well! I was being open and honest, COMPLETELY. Where as normally I tone myself back. I told him about my week this week. It was a good one. I was fvckin' with 5 guys (not literally, but in the mind). There's this one who I just absolutely want to break! I want to break all his morals and bring him to his knees. I don't like him sexually, I'd never date him. But I need to get him. It's fun. Its this crazy feeling and it's making me have this euphoric type mood! I have super, excessive energy. I love it.

Sans, what you were doing is throwing sh#t in your therapist’s face and saying "don't you just love me now?" Above sounds like you enjoy breaking a guys morals down via seduction as a means of proving he will succumb to temptation. That “victory” boosts you up (“temporarily”) as the master sadist, as you enjoy experiencing his horrible suffering once he’s fallen. "Its fun…Makes me have this euphoric type mood".

As "disordered" as all that may seem to others, and on some level, also to yourself, it really isn't all that severe. Kernberg would put it in the top quartile of "solvability" in BPD, actually a minor case of it vs. heavy duty AsPD stuff. Sounds to me like you are repeating trauma you yourself experienced - sexually abused to the point where you learned to love it on one level (a ball of "wrong..exciting..europhic" body sensation, along with a huge adrenaline hit and super high! Think back - were you skillfully seduced? Made to fall? Did someone with “superior” knowledge at the time use your own body against your will to “bend your morals”? Get you to cave in to some delicious hot times and crumble your sense of self control? I can be way off here, but the above sounds eerily like something along those lines. If that was the case you then likely identified with / introjected the aggressor. Ahh - but enough speculation - as you know I'm not a pro.

March right back in that guy’s office and plop yourself down. Shake the blond curls at him and seductively say, Doc you just can't get rid of me that easy. I know I'm challenging. I've very bright, if this was an easy problem I would have solved it myself!

...Do what it takes, I'm totally ready....

...Yes I know it will take years

...For God sakes man, take off the kid gloves and let me have it. It always feels to me like you are holding back your REAL impression of me! I get the distinct idea you feel I'm currently incurable, however I'm not quite the "hardened criminal" you make me out to be! I’m fixable!

...You need to step it up a huge notch with me. I'm willing to do my part!!! So stop fuc#ing with my head and give me my options. What's it going to take to get me totally better????

...Do you have any supervision / extra resources for BDP. I know this stuff can drive most therapists insane. I know its very hard work! I'll do my part. Now you have to do yours! [For God sakes man get back field back up!!!]

rage, rage, rage ---- (let it out!) You miserable so and so... How dare you give up on me!!! We haven’t even gone x sessions and you are throwing up your hands? For God's sakes man use what you learned in school, what you have learned via all your experience, dig in there!!!... Help me!!! Don't be a quitter. Break down to a full cry here if possible... Emote...back to rage...more crying ... repeat. Goal --- come out of that office looking like you have been through the war, shipwrecked, abused, just delivered triplets.... Fill his wastebasket with tissues. If he’s good he has more boxes for the next patient. Its all part of the big fees you are paying for!

Sans, don't lie down on the mat here and let the ref count you knocked out. Get up and pound that guy back! You like a good fight and he threw you a great punch! Sock him back!!!!!

PS - Yell and rage, but no physical, k?

Yes, yes I am a BIG dork. It's part of my charm

Stars, yes, face and a tiny bit got on his eyeball but really I am thankful that we went in when we did or it would have been much more dire. You can get it on the side of your face/head because there is a nerve junction (sorry - can't recall the med term) right there under the ear. The nurse and PA knew what it was the second they laid eyes on him. In case someone comes into your joint with something on their face or around their eye that looks like shingles, it is shingles!

I would like to comment on this:

I understand he thinks he's doing the right thing. I understand that he doesn't think he can help. But lets look at the fact that he's been a therapist for almost 20 years. In those 20 years he had to come across SOMEONE who resembles me, right? Did he cast them away too? Am I too hard for him? This is where the "I broke him" comes from. I understand that I did not literally break him. I just use the word break for fun. It's an "over generalization". He says I use them too much. But really. Why couldn't he help me?! If he knows he can't, that equates to me, that I am more maladaptive than his capabilities, otherwise he would help me, right!!?? See, in my mind, that is logical. Is that not logic to you?

Just my opinion and based on my experience, I do think he was doing the right thing. It was just very subtly done. But you don't want subtle and I am with you on that one. Rather, if he's going to be subtle, he has to be more subtle about it. As in, mixed in with a more dynamic exchange. For instance, I told you my T thought I didn't need him for much longer. His statement was mixed in with a dynamic exchange in which I felt like progress was being made in real time. So when he made that statement, I couldn't take it as rejection. I didn't take it as a compliment, either. Or anything other than a test on his part to see whether I really did need more "work." IMO, I do. I'm not done. I have more layers to go. I didn't go in for triage, I went in for recovery. At the end of the day, only YOU really know that answer.

You're so dynamic here and, sure, if you are indeed HPD or even have traits that might be a part of the dramatics. Though from my perspective you don't come across as unnecessarily dramatic - just dynamic. Maybe it's the forum we're in. But that dynamism is what I think wisdom is telling you to bring out in your sessions. Don't hold back. Let it be a dynamic exchange. Don't worry about being judged. That is NOT a part of the T's role and if you feel that you're being judged, tell them and talk it through.

From your OP I didn't get the feeling that he was telling you that he couldn't help you-you. I think what he was saying was that he couldn't help you in the theme of your ongoing interactions. I didn't feel that he dumped you per se but offered you the opportunity to opt-out or take a break and think about changing your side of the equation. Does that make sense? If that means going off in a huff, coming here and hashing it out, deciding to cease toning back, and breaking it all down for him, then that's what happens. Or you could find a new T and tell them everything that happened and see how it goes.

Here's my take about recovery in general - IT IS SCARY. At all points in the road. If the goal is to become the real you - the you whom you don't even know - it is bleddy scary. And from an totally outside, but possibly similar, perspective, jumping ship when faced with a challenge rings of giving in to the scariness. I give you mad props for being and staying on the path - I don't want you to think I don't appreciate that part, because I know, because I am on that path, too. Everyone here is on that path. Just don't give in to the fear. Don't let that exchange with your T fool you into thinking that you are too broken or too maladaptive for anyone's capabilities. You are not too broken. You just held back.

I have a friend who ran a half marathon through the wilderness hungover and WON. She got a rubber chicken out of it. More importantly, she was so happy because she had never won anything (her words). When I asked her how she pulled it off, she told me, "I went strong."

Go strong, Stars. Or, like wisdom writes, strike through and believe.

Sans,

You have your answer in your own words. Perhaps that evil smile on your face is all that needs to be said.

You didn't BREAK anyone. That is your flawed perception. In your mind you broke him. But deep down you also are bothered by his rejection of you.

But my guess is that it all boiled down to the philosopy that THOSE THAT DON'T WANT TO BE HELPED, CAN'T BE HELPED.

He probably realized this and you weren't making any progress and were seeming to making the sessions a BRAGGING session in which you wanted his applause?? What did you expect him to say to that. GOOD JOB your in a psychotic rage trying to F..with 5 guys minds?

I would do the same if I were the therapist and realized that you didn't even WANT to be better. It would be trying on my mind, and my nerves that I couldn't save you when you don't want to save yourself.

Perhaps if you keep doing this with other therapists MEN or WOMEN you are going to find after several sessions when you are not making any progress toward being better, they as a therapist have the obligation to bow out as they know they can't help you when you are not willing to make that necessary changes on your part.

Therapy isn't being CURED. Its WORKING THROUGH what you have problems with in your life. You can't put it on him to CURE YOU. Only you can change yourself.

And when you say its just more money for him for you to keep coming back, although I'm sure he makes okay money, he didn't go into the field to MAKE MONEY, he did it to help people.

And when he can't help you, he knows its time for you to move on until you either make an effort or permanently if you never do.

Sincerely I hope you understand that.
Thanks for listening,
S

Great advice Scarlett and Wisdom!!

If a cancer patient only wants pity and attention, but refuses treatment or doesn't stop what caused the cancer in the first place, what's the point in trying to help them.

No matter how many doctors they see, they will never get better.

What professional in thier right mind, wants someone that won't help themselves. Waste of time and energy.

Most professionals take pride in thier work. It is not all about money, as it is something they do for the majority of thier day and enjoy it. To put up with someone, that asked for help and make no effort in recieving it, is against thier professional code. They would rather deal with those, that truly want to help themselves.

Frustration and trying to help someone, don't mix. It's a loss cause, so why beat yourself up over it, everytime they show up.

My ex is making great strides. I thought she was a loss cause. But she sincerely is making an effort, and showing great progress. Takes time, but she is working at at. For the first time in her life, she has no men and only working on her. Big step.

Just my thoughts, but the mind is a powerful thing. It can change, but it takes "will" power to do it.

Yes OK I almost used that exact same reference as far as other illnesses that people go to the doctor for!

Its the same as what I was saying about diagnoses because if you go in and LIE to a therapist for fear of rejection or disapproval, you won't GET A DIAGNOSIS or you might get the WRONG diagnosis.

And like you said if you go to the doctor for an illness and don't take the medicine or complete the remedies prescribed you don't get better.

SOOO same way with PDs. If there is no way you WANT to get better you WON'T and that cannot be placed on the blame of the therapist.

Good to hear your ex is making great progress.

I've said this many times on this board that it is all about CHOICE. We aren't crazy, we are only FLAWED. WE have the ability to make those changes, its within our own power. I can't change you but i CAN CHANGE ME!

No its not our FAULT we became this way, but it IS our fault if we STAY this way and continue to hurt people. That is fully our choice.

S