As I recover, people are walking all over me!!!!

Can someone advise me on this? I am making enormous strides in my recovery, to the extent that my family and friends have all commented upon this. I am secure enough within myself not to feel a need to be the centre of attention, and feeling a genuine empathy for people, but it seems to be happening to such an extent that l feel that some people are now taking advantage of me. l have the appeasing type of the disorder and so have been a people pleaser for most of my life, but my efforts to please were really a means of seeking approval and not because of a genuine empathy for people. This safeguarded me from being taken advantage of to a certain extent. Now, however, l am finding that l seem to be a sucker for people's sob stories and really feel for them, but to the extent that l am not safeguarding my own boundaries, and seem to be giving people inappropriate amounts of my time, attention and even money.

There is a woman who comes to my salon who has befriended me and we have begun to socialise outside the salon. l am beginning to realise that she might have some kind of disorder herself although this was not obvious in the beginning. She has five children from three fathers, all of whom seem to have behavioural problems. She gives them anything they ask for but does not discipline them and allows them to hit each other, swear, throw tantrums etc. Her home is chaotic and she has moved house nine times in twelve years. She has had abusive partners in the past, some ex jailbirds, and has been in a refuge three times. The last time she was in a refuge she did not have a partner, but lied simply to find alternative housing, and justified this by saying that she wanted the children to live in a better area. She could not see the wrong in this!!!

She has a volatile relationship with her mother, but from what l can see, her mother is put-upon and will drop everything to babysit or lend her money. She is verbally abusive to her mother in front of me and it makes me uncomfortable and l must say that her mother does not seem to be the bad person that her daughter implies. l am frequently interrupted by phone calls from this person involving some kind of crisis or another, and always seem to be lending her small amounts of money which she does pay back.

She has borrowed money from loan companies, bought things on hire purchase using the names of other family members unknown to them, and moved house when she cannot afford to repay the loans.

She will play on illnesses, or create dramatic situations and thrive on the drama. l have spoken to my sister about this. She is a social worker and she said that because the children are not actually neglected or in any danger, there is little that can be done, but that l should keep an eye on her, whilst not allowing myself to be taken advantage of.

This person can, at times be warm hearted and kind, but will quickly revert to being dramatic, needy and attention seeking. Everything is a drama for her, and something as simple as losing her keys will make her tearful, angry and panicky. lt goes on and on.

This woman makes me seem to be an angel in comparison, even when l was at the height of my disorder. My therapist believes that l should cut her from my life, but l am having difficulty in doing so. Why am l finding it so difficult to be firm and assertive? l suppose l feel sorry for this woman, as l can recognise her disorder - been there, done that, got the tee shirt etc and think that if l could get her into therapy, l could help her in her recovery, but in all honesty l think that as long as she does not recognise that she is disordered, then nothing can be done. She lives next door to the salon so l cannot really avoid her, our children are friends and we have a few mutual friends so she will always be near, unless she uproots and moves yet again. This is draining my energy, and l need every reserve of energy for my own healing, but what can l do?

ln addition, she has interrupted dates with my husband with phone calls and l am trying desperately to salvage my marriage to him. Her sisters have reported her when they found out about the loans in their names, but no action was taken because she took out other loans in her own name to repay them. She is currently avoiding the bailiffs and l really do not want to be drawn into this because it is making me ill. l really do not want to confront her directly because l do not want a big confrontational scene, and there is little l can actually say to her, because she has not really done me any harm other than inconvenience me.

When l go to the salon, l get a sinking feeling in my stomach if she calls in for a chat, which she does frequently. l am prone to depression and anxiety and do not want to become ill again, or to have a relapse with my own HPD. How can l deal with this, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Does she seem to have a disorder or is she just a pain in the neck?

Sorry for going on and on, but each time l finish my post, l remember other things that she has done, and l just need to offload.

They say you can judge a person by the company they keep, and l must say that her other friends all seem to be quite dysfunctional themselves, wild, alcoholic, chaotic, so what does this say about me??? l really am living a much more ordered life, making huge steps in recovery, and my other friends are all regular, decent people. l have left my wild and immature days behind me, but what is it within myself that finds it so difficult to cut the ties with her? lt is more than a lack of assertiveness, for l feel that there may be a more deep rooted reason why l find myself time after time being caught up in her dramas. She does not do drugs, or commit crimes (apart from getting her sisters into debt) or have wild parties or lots of men, but she is manipulative, attention seeking, has a sense of entitlement, does not learn from her mistakes. l seem to feel that l can somehow save her, or help her, but she really cannot or will not see that she has a problem.

She is at times quite intelligent and could make something of her life but she seems to have no ambition or desire to make any changes. l know that she has had some major traumas in her life and these could explain a lot but she will not go for therapy. Maybe if l could persuade her to go, she might make some changes in her life. l am fond of her kids and know that she loves them in her own way, even if she spoils them with material things and does not read to them etc. She is quite strict with them in that she will not allow them to roam the streets etc but she allows them to verbally abuse her in the same way that she verbally abuses her own mother and l feel that my own children could pick up bad habits from her. My son has ADHD and really does need tp have firm boundaries in place as his behaviour could easily escalate, so l try to limit the time my kids spend with hers, but what l really need to do is to learn how to say NO to her.

Your protecting yourself by setting some boundaries. If you really like and really care about her, you will set some boundaries and distance your self from her so you can protect your relationship with her. If you don't do that, then your only option is to dump her from your life. I think at this point it would be very mean not to set some boundaries. also, she will probably find an exception to the rule. it will probably be a legitimate exception to the rule as she sees it. you need to inform her that there are no legitimate exceptions either. and maybe consider forgiving her when she does it anyways on accident.... but anyways, your gonna need to set some boundaries of distance or drop her.

I suspect you were surrounded with dysfunctional people when you were in the culprit of your disorder, but now that you´re recovering you can actually see it. I strongly believe that people with personality disorders tend to drift towards other people with disorders, so don´t be surprised if you´re actually noticing that now. Before that you probably just saw people like her as competition and got hooked in a dysfunctional cycle with them, now you opened your eyes to disordered behaviour and want to set boundaries with them.

You have the right to want to set boundaries, that is actually a healthy and necessary attitude you have to have if you want to carry on with your recovery. Just keep in mind that you have to hold on to your decisions and if you decide to cut her form your life or distance yourself, you have to keep it up.

Good luck with everything!

Thanks mistaben and theatrium. You are both correct in that l need to set boundaries. You are right, theatrium, in saying that during my disorder l did not recognise malfunctional behaviour in others for it has only occurred to me that her behaviour is dysfunctional as l have recovered myself. l can particularly see that her thinking is in black and white and that is where she gets her dramatic responses to minor issues from. There was a time when l would join in her dramatic responses to her issues and get caught up in her dramas but now l am beginning to see them for what they are. l would also get emotionally involved by using sympathy instead of empathy and she would manipulate my emotional responses. l think most of it was done subconsciously on her part for l would elicit similar responses from her with my own dramatic issues - subconsciously.

l am finding it easier to be empathic towards her but knowing where the boundaries lie. l think because this behaviour has gone on for so long, she has come to be dependent upon me and is used to getting a response, and because of her lack of empathy she cannot see that l have moved on and matured. Also, because my own thinking is less black and white, l am not seeing her as a BAD person and myself as a GOOD person - she is a person with a lot of grey areas in between who has learnt dysfunctional responses for so long that only therapy will help her to unlearn them.

l think l am learning the differences between guilt and remorse too. lf l did something bad in the past, it coloured my entire attitude towards myself - l believed myself to be ALL BAD if l did a bad thing and would be consuned with guilt, but not remorse. Thererfore if l was "bad" l would repeat the action again and it would be a self fullfilling prophecy. Now l am learning that my actions do not define me, they do not make me BAD in themselves. lf l make a mistake or do a bad thing, l can now attempt to make amends for it and learn from it, knowing that it does not define me, for l am neither all bad or all good, like everyone else. l have lots of grey areas in between. l believe my "friend" or "frenemy" as my husband calls her, is locked in a pattern of black and white thinking. My therapist has taught me how to challenge my own faulty thinking patterns and l am gradually putting this into practice.

My friend is not all bad. She can have a heart of gold. When an elderly man fell in the street and cut his head, she took him into her home and phoned an ambulance. She mopped my tears when l felt so bad l was nearly suicidal when a lot of my so called normal friends could not handle it. That is why l know that she can be helped, and maybe why l stick around. l will not reject her totally as other people have done, but l do need to limit the time l spend with her and put some boundaries in place. The first thing l need to do is to tell her not to come into the salon unless it is empty as she can be quite distracting to me and the girls here. lt is a business and place of work after all and does not create a good impression for my clients. l honestly do not know how to put this into place and be assertive without being aggressive and losing my temper. l know l am too sensitive about offending her, but in all honesty, she is not too bothered about offending me!!!! How can l exercise more assertiveness?

Masquerade,

I always enjoy your posts. The ones here on this thread are great, again almost poetry. You eloquently describe something that most people feel, at least sometimes. You open up your “pores” to empathy and lots of human suffering comes rushing in to your awareness. It's everywhere and when you open your eyes to it, its just overwhelming.

Yet at the same time, your body and mind have fixed capacity, were made to pretty much live a long life, suffer a bit along the way, but for the most part hang in there and have the opportunity to do a lot of good for others along the way. You however were not built with infinite (God like) capacity.

When I read your post I immediately thought of a person recovering from a horrible winter cold – chronic bronchitis/pneumonia, etc. During a period of time that person would need to get on antibiotics, get lots of rest, then slowly transition back to a full, sometimes grinding “productive” life. The very best road to take would be not to short change that “normal” period of recovery, yet try to move steadily through it. Even though that person was beginning to recover, and felt increasing vitality, they would still very much need to avoid other people who had any cold/flu/sneezing and coughing, symptoms etc. as their lungs would not be 100% back to full “self protecting” status. After a full recovery they would be 1000x more “resistant”. During the recovery period the best medicine would be zero exposure. Realistically that’s not always totally possible.

Think too of all the concerns over antibiotic effectiveness. When you are on one, the last thing you need is to be exposed to some unique pathogens that are extremely insinuating, yet fully resistant to the antibiotics you are on. You are at 100% “undefended” against catching those. If you contract one of those, then spread it around, the antibiotic you were on in time is no longer effective, not just for you, but for others too! Then the whole healing process will take a huge step backwards and you may end up in a cycle of “weakness”, susceptibility to further infection as the regular immune system is already engaged and worn down, infection, escalating pharmaceuticals needs, increased community health risk, etc. Better to fully recover your own health than to place yourself in an environment of greatly increased risk. Another way to look at his is how do you feel about other parents sending sick kids to school? Would everyone be better off if everyone fully recovered? Why are you somehow less valuable or deserving of a full recovery period? [BTW I don’t mean to imply you are not close to full recovery at all here. You have come a long way baby! ]

The other thing you have to remember is good “triage”. If you have ever been to the ER lately (particularly on a Saturday nigh) you know exactly what’s required here. The ER facility has a fixed capacity over the short term (say a night). There are only so many attending ER physicians, residents, interns, nurses and aids on staff at any point in time and nearly zero ability to alter that quickly. There are only so many beds, and several more stretchers lined up in the halls. The person doing triage must make some emotionally tough decisions. When the “system is full”, all the lesser injury patients must endure very long wait times, and yes they will suffer greatly during those times. However the triage nurse has to do what she needs to. Were that nurse to become overly empathetic to every patient who came in, each one ringing the five bell alarm in her mind to stop everything else and “do something immediately!”, while forgetting who’s already there and being mindful of the “system” capacity, that would have a horrible result. She would have to “get real” and hold it together, especially when there was high demand. The tears could come, but they would have to be "later". Even that later period would have to be limited for her to maximize her contribution to the "overall good."

Lastly, in terms of self vs. others I like to think of it as a family sitting down at a pizza parlor to share a pizza. Everyone, yourself included, gets a slice! As you dole out the slices do not skip yourself.

I find myself very torn on this Forum at times. I ruminate on some of the HPDs who are here earnestly seeking help, and they lack any resources for high quality, professional level private or group therapy. And they suffer, and I can see it. Yet I don’t have unlimited time to post. I also find it productive to look far away from this forum for HPD and BPD “wisdom” that has been synthesized and stored elsewhere. At times I find some really good stuff. But that search, collect and network time comes directly out of my “apply” budget. So, at some level I’m never comfortable I’m doing the “right” thing, at the “right” time, and doing enough of it.

In the empathy theory area there seems to be some very good mechanisms that “pucker up” your empathy pores to protect yourself from becoming overwhelmed. Were that not the case the triage nurse would “fall to pieces”. Not too tight (callous disregard for feeling and the needs for others) not too loose (yourself totally disintegrated, reduced to chaos and entropy) because no one has infinite capacity to do good.

In my mind there are no simple solutions to this. It’s a pure “emotional regulation” issue and it takes effort. However if you take the three concepts here to heart perhaps the path for you personally may become a hair more “illuminated”?
1. fully heal and recover whenever the “body” (including “the mind) has taken a beating. During that recovery period avoid exposure to known high-risk situations (and of course don’t malinger or wallow in your own recovery either, take responsibility) 2. become the hard headed triage nurse when the ambulances are lined up, rushing body after body into the your "ER", that all desperately need attention. Capacity limits are reality! and, 3. when slicing and serving the pizza to everyone all around you, never skip serving a slice to yourself.

Thanks Wisdom. Your posts are always so full of.....wisdom. I am going to try to get things into balance with this person, excercising a little healthy selfishness because it IS OKAY to recognise that l have needs too and a life away from her!!!

She did try to call into the salon today and l told her that as we were rushed it was impossible to speak. She seemed to be a little put out, saying that she was upset because her friend had fallen out with her, but l remained assertive and arranged to meet her on Friday for an hour, when it is more convenient for me. l hope l can keep this up, whilst keeping a balance.