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So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

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So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby mistaben » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:52 am

Ok,

What do I have to do to fix this? I have HPD and ADHD cross. (i've had a few others over time but... these two sort of fit i guess I can actually read the descriptions in the dsmIV and say yea that is probably my problem). The adhd stuff I'm mostly growing out of now at 25... but the HPD ... this just hurts.

I dont exactly have the cash for regular counseling and therapy but if you guys have any advice I would sure appreciate it. I talked to some psychdoctorate and he said developing "ego strength" is something I need to do, that and break the self-referencing cycle. Anyone know what he was talking about? isn't ego bad? or is there some developmental process of developing ego that I am missing?
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby wisdom » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:01 pm

>I don't exactly have the cash for regular counseling
Hunt around on this forum for ideas on low or zero cost therapy. At 25 this would be an excellent gift to yourself and you would likely be a prime "eligible" candidate for free/subsidized clinics.

>developing "ego strength"
The ego is your "self" so I think what he's driving at is consolidating, harmonizing and integrating your diffuse sense of self into something much more robust. I.e. avoiding ambivalence / inner conflict / self defeating behaviors etc. Oddly to build ego strength you typically need to harmonize the values (often conflicting) contained in your super ego. When your own super ego stops "punishing you" because you are not living up to it's values, your ego strength automatically goes up (is less pounded down).

>break the self-referencing cycle
Can only speculate what he was driving at. see: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Self_reference
He may mean you need to "get out more and rub up against the real world in an effort to know yourself better" That is don't wall up so much inside (self referencing) but instead inter relate extensively with others and let that (you vs. them) differentiation become clearer to you? Again this is just wild speculation on my part.

Would be curious, how did you get the HPD "official" diagnosis - what was the diagnostic process?

Hang in. Lots of self help if you can't find therapy right now. However if you do have a sold diagnosis actual face to face therapy is always highly recommended. Lots to learn about yourself and the patterns of the disorder if you have it.
I am not a professional therapist. My postings here are provided for general informational purposes only and are not intended as, nor should it be considered a substitute for, professional medical or psychological advice. See: site Disclaimer and Notes
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby mistaben » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:32 am

thankyou for your advice I appreciate it

about the diagnosis a clinical psychologist gave it to me. I have a read a little and would say that this one probably is accurate. (and I had to get it because I got kicked out of ASU and to resume attending they wanted me to get a letter from a psychologist saying I could resume schooling)

I believe he used the Millon Clinical Multiaxial Inventory-3 (MCMI-III). My 2 highest results were (all he told me)
Histrionic personality pattern (BR 92)
Desirability (BR 75)

Diagnosis DSM-VI:
301.50 Histrionic Personality Disorder
314.01 Adult Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder

anyways, about the question about ego strength:
I asked that psyche doctorate (not related to the clinical psychologist) and he said:
"Ego Strength is about knowing who you are, your sense of self. The stronger your sense of self as an individual with likes dislikes temperaments moods, mental frameworks the stronger your ego will be. Ultimately it comes down to a feeling, a feeling that you have value and worth. Which you do. People with HPD and NPD have very weak egos and ego strength, but it can be developed." - so essentially what you said... I think at least.

I have definately noticed that some other people have a very "strong" mental framework or a mental willpower or frame of mind. and it is something that I don't have. I've been noticing this especially now that I'm going back to school to finish off a degree. I'm around all these 21 and 22 year olds and their frame's of mind are very, very strong when I pick them up. Is this what you mean by a "sense of self"?

Regarding the breaking the self-referencing cycle, I think he meant more like stop actively-doing things the bring the center of attention to me/constantly seeking emotional validation and a few other things. And also really carefully listening to what they say to help develop empathy. (following on his advice, I have noticed that I tend to make very general statements, but other people especially in my age group tend to mean exactly and only specificly what they say (by text/email I can notice it the most) and to take it and to do anything else other than exactly that usually results in a very negative outcome in interatcting with them for me).

I was sort trying the internet route to at least gather information or look for help first. but, I think you have a really good idea about trying a free clinic/counseling if I can find it. thankyou
Last edited by mistaben on Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:56 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby Jakalla » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:06 pm

You make a good observation on the general statements, because this is a trait. Practising being more specific with your classmates could help you in your written and verbal communications with others.

My co-worker is very likely hpd, or at least has strong traits and communicating with her is a lot of work because she often talks in generalities, but from what I've read, it's not done on purpose. I suspect it has something to do with self-esteem - maybe she doesn't feel she has the right to be so direct with people.

Her texting: please when you get a chance, call me!!! Then on the phone: "I can't get my Photoshop to work." Me: What exactly do you mean?" Her: "I think I did something to it." Anyway, it took 15 minutes of talking around the problem before it could be fixed and it was a pretty simple thing. I don't know, maybe there's ADHD at work here, too.

I got a little frustrated, thinking she's just doing it to get attention. I feel bad for her, but I sometimes wonder if she's running a false victim script without even being aware of it. I'm often left confused, like she's talking in code. I should tell her this, but I know she's sensitive and would be hurt by it.

She's a good person overall, but it may help if she's more aware of how she interacts and stops to think how her communication style may be affecting the other person - like confusing them. Non-hpd's could use that same lesson! You deserve to have people like you despite the challenges - hope you can find and know your true value. Good luck.
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby mistaben » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:13 pm

I guess my thoughts on generalities from when I was young was it's just better to be general as it explains the problem better - the problem IS that photoshop isn't working. I also stay away from other things that are overly specific like precise words. I can use common vernacular or I could just say style of speech, however not everyone knows what vernacular means - this a making sure the general concept is conveyed issue. It may help if you inform her that to solve "the problem with photoshop" she will have to be more precise on what it is she was trying to do/has done for you to fix it.

(as a side note read how I stated that the problem IS that photoshop isn't working - this is much like the relational issues I have had with people before in the past. The problem IS that that person is working/doing what I expected them to do/isn't responding how I expected them to react. This is like a black-box mathematical function statement. if i do this to that black-box, then that black-box should do this. if it doesn't do this, it's not working... it's a very 2-dimensional view of people to reduce them down to preprogrammed responses but it was how I viewed the world for a very long time... *shrugs*)

just my 2 cents though. good luck
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby Musician924 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:34 am

Hi Mistaben:
Firstly, Wisdom provides some excellent insight to you on how you may move forward now that you have obtained a diagnosis. Secondly i found what you wrote about peoples reactions and pre-programmed black boxes being very interesting. Know that you shall only ever to a certain point be able to control another persons actions and reactions. People are complex, and the more buttons you push to get what you want, the less i think you shall get a reaction you require or expect longer-term. In itself, controlling how another person acts and reacts should never be anyones objective, no person has the right to act/react explicitly with the objective of in-direct or open direct coervice manipulation.

Now about you moving forward. The more i learn about HP, the more I think that much of it is related to how god made you versus how god made me. Sure there are often common features in cases of HP related to up bringing (Relationship with Mother and Father comes out often...), but i think much of it may be due to the way you were made. As 99 percent of us were made a little differently from you, you run into difficulties in your daily life. At least now that you know how you were made, you can moderate yourself to obtain the best from your life. I don't think that any amount of Psychotherapy shall change you fundamentaly however. This is just my opinion based upon my own experiences, many people may not agree with me.

Good luck,
Musician
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby AliceWonders » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:47 pm

The more i learn about HP, the more I think that much of it is related to how god made you versus how god made me.... but i think much of it may be due to the way you were made.... As 99 percent of us were made a little differently from you.....
:!: BALDERDASH! :!:

There is a lack of research on the causes of HPD. Even though the causes for the disorder are not definitively known, it is thought that HPD may be caused by biological, developmental, cognitive, and social factors.

NEUROCHEMICAL/PHYSIOLOGICAL CAUSES. Studies show that patients with HPD have highly responsive noradrenergic systems, the mechanisms surrounding the release of a neurotransmitter called norepinephrine. Neurotransmitters are chemicals that communicate impulses from one nerve cell to another in the brain , and these impulses dictate behavior. The tendency towards an excessively emotional reaction to rejection, common among patients with HPD, may be attributed to a malfunction in a group of neurotransmitters called catecholamines. (Norepinephrine belongs to this group of neurotransmitters.)

DEVELOPMENTAL CAUSES. Psychoanalytic theory, developed by Freud, outlines a series of psychosexual stages of development through which each individual passes. These stages determine an individual's later psychological development as an adult. Early psychoanalysts proposed that the genital phase, Freud's fifth or last stage of psychosexual development, is a determinant of HPD. Later psychoanalysts considered the oral phase, Freud's first stage of psychosexual development, to be a more important determinant of HPD. Most psychoanalysts agree that a traumatic childhood contributes towards the development of HPD. Some theorists suggest that the more severe forms of HPD derive from disapproval in the early mother-child relationship.

Another component of Freud's theory is the defense mechanism. Defense mechanisms are sets of systematic, unconscious methods that people develop to cope with conflict and to reduce anxiety. According to Freud's theory, all people use defense mechanisms, but different people use different types of defense mechanisms. Individuals with HPD differ in the severity of the maladaptive defense mechanisms they use. Patients with more severe cases of HPD may utilize the defense mechanisms of repression, denial , and dissociation.

•Repression. Repression is the most basic defense mechanism. When patients' thoughts produce anxiety or are unacceptable to them, they use repression to bar the unacceptable thoughts or impulses from consciousness.
•Denial. Patients who use denial may say that a prior problem no longer exists, suggesting that their competence has increased; however, others may note that there is no change in the patients' behaviors.
•Dissociation. When patients with HPD use the defense mechanism of dissociation, they may display two or more personalities. These two or more personalities exist in one individual without integration. Patients with less severe cases of HPD tend to employ displacement and rationalization as defenses.
•Displacement occurs when a patient shifts an affect from one idea to another. For example, a man with HPD may feel angry at work because the boss did not consider him to be the center of attention. The patient may displace his anger onto his wife rather than become angry at his boss.
•Rationalization occurs when individuals explain their behaviors so that they appear to be acceptable to others.
BIOSOCIAL LEARNING CAUSES. A biosocial model in psychology asserts that social and biological factors contribute to the development of personality. Biosocial learning models of HPD suggest that individuals may acquire HPD from inconsistent interpersonal reinforcement offered by parents. Proponents of biosocial learning models indicate that individuals with HPD have learned to get what they want from others by drawing attention to themselves.

http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Histrionic-personality-disorder.html

The cause of this disorder is unknown, but childhood events such as deaths in the immediate family, illnesses within the immediate family which present constant anxiety, divorce of parents and genetics may be involved. Histrionic Personality Disorder is more often diagnosed in women than men; men with some quite similar symptoms are often diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder.
Little research has been conducted to determine the biological sources, if any, of this disorder. Psychoanalytic theories incriminate authoritarian or distant attitudes by one (mainly mother); or both of the parents of these patients, or love based on expectations from the child that can never be fully met.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

The exact cause of histrionic personality disorder is not known, but many mental health professionals believe that both learned and inherited factors play a role in its development. For example, the tendency for histrionic personality disorder to run in families suggests that a genetic susceptibility for the disorder might be inherited. However, the child of a parent with this disorder might simply be repeating learned behavior. Other environmental factors that might be involved include a lack of criticism or punishment as a child, positive reinforcement that is given only when a child completes certain approved behaviors, and unpredictable attention given to a child by his or her parent(s), all leading to confusion about what types of behavior earn parental approval.
http://www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/histrionic-personality-disorder/histrionic-personality-disorder/menu-id-62/

Need I go On? :roll:

It's CLEAR that the cause of this type of disorder can't be singled out to one firm cause; but it's also clear that scientists are leaning more towards the fact this a delevloped behavior, moreso than a biological occurance. In the last quote, it even says that they can't say it's genetic- it could be laerned and passed down from parent to child by TEACHING not DNA.

I do see where you said that is purely your own speculation, and I understand that. But I think the scientific evidence speaks for self to discount your theory. And to tell somewone who's Histrionic that they could have been BORN this way- nice way to make an person who's already insecure about their self image and sanity feel even MORE defective... I'm sorry but I just don't understand that :roll:
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth~Oscar Wilde

Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together~Eugene Ionesco

Once you chose hope anything is possible~ Christopher Reeves
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby Watchman » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:50 pm

LOL I have not heard that expression in ages (my dad would use it when we were growing up). Balderdash!

Man arguments suck.

People should be more careful of the words they use especially on sensitive topics. It takes but a single word to throw people off.

I think Alice has the right idea; even if reality WAS how Musician said (which the jury is out on), it's sort of a high-handed way of writing off PD people. 'Sorry but you are wired this way...' Being confronted with having a PD is a MASSIVE event for those who suffer it. It's devastation to the very core they have had rocked a billion times already. It's earth shattering to learn the news. To tell them, further, they are PERMANENT? ###$ that.

I understand the painful places where those kinds of judgements are born (I spent time there after my relationship with an HPD). Being angry and judgmental is easy. It's pure and raw.

HPD need people to believe in them (while in their minds they want people to want them... important distinction). Believing in people is free and helpful. You may never be able to forgive your histrionic and believe in them, but you can do it for the others.
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby AliceWonders » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:43 pm

Watchman wrote:People should be more careful of the words they use especially on sensitive topics. It takes but a single word to throw people off.

I think Alice has the right idea; even if reality WAS how Musician said (which the jury is out on), it's sort of a high-handed way of writing off PD people. 'Sorry but you are wired this way...' Being confronted with having a PD is a MASSIVE event for those who suffer it. It's devastation to the very core they have had rocked a billion times already. It's earth shattering to learn the news. To tell them, further, they are PERMANENT? ###$ that.

I understand the painful places where those kinds of judgements are born (I spent time there after my relationship with an HPD). Being angry and judgmental is easy. It's pure and raw.

HPD need people to [b]believe in them (while in their minds they want people to want them... important distinction). Believing in people is free and helpful. You may never be able to forgive your histrionic and believe in them, but you can do it for the others[/b].

PRECISELY!

Finding out you are depressed when you know you are depressed, is a given; but finding out you have Personality Disorder that you never had a clue about- is a LIFE SHACKING/SHATTERING event.

The first thing you do is think- "Why me? What have I done to deserve this?" and you feel GUILTY for being damaged. Telling someone they were born this way does NOT relieve that guilt- it only REINFORCES IT by making them think that "yeah, I guess the problem is ME, I'm damaged goods & I'll never be able to escape my own genetics..." I know, because I've been there!

What people need to remember is that we're all here for different reasons and come from aspects of this affliction.

Some of us are un diagnosed and searching for answers to our mental issues.
Some of us have been in relationships with an HPD and are recovering from the damage
Some of us had looked into HPD and were confirmed as such by a Psychiatrist after already suspecting 'this could be it'
Some of us recieved our diagnosis out of thin air, like a slap in the face- with no idea what it was or that we were 'so damaged' to begin with!

Me personally, I'm the last one; I went to see my shrink after I quit abusing drugs, and I realized I had some issues (probably bipolar) so I was looking for help with that. When he said bipolar- I wasn't surprised, so we kept working together, only to find out that I had a Borderline & Histrionic Personality Disorder! I was like WTF???? :shock: It crushed me internally. I was OK with bipolar and could accept that fact, but a Personality disorder- r u kidding me???? :o I thought there was no way I was THAT 'carzy' and I lived in denial for years. Admitting to being bipolar, but NOT BPD/HPD!! NOT ME!!! :x

It took a long time and a lot of damage in both my life and others, to come to terms with the reality that YES I actually DO have a personality disorser & I need HELP!

Not all of us are at that stage though...

Mistaben had only just recieved a diagnosis. This is a very sensitive time in his life. You don't through salt into an open wound. You clean it and wrap it carringly so that it will heal.

I dunno? Some of the things people say just astonish me sometimes :roll:
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth~Oscar Wilde

Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together~Eugene Ionesco

Once you chose hope anything is possible~ Christopher Reeves
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Re: So I just got my diagnosis. What now?

Postby jmac » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:16 pm

Musician924 wrote:Hi Mistaben:
Firstly, Wisdom provides some excellent insight to you on how you may move forward now that you have obtained a diagnosis. Secondly i found what you wrote about peoples reactions and pre-programmed black boxes being very interesting. Know that you shall only ever to a certain point be able to control another persons actions and reactions. People are complex, and the more buttons you push to get what you want, the less i think you shall get a reaction you require or expect longer-term. In itself, controlling how another person acts and reacts should never be anyones objective, no person has the right to act/react explicitly with the objective of in-direct or open direct coervice manipulation.

Now about you moving forward. The more i learn about HP, the more I think that much of it is related to how god made you versus how god made me. Sure there are often common features in cases of HP related to up bringing (Relationship with Mother and Father comes out often...), but i think much of it may be due to the way you were made. As 99 percent of us were made a little differently from you, you run into difficulties in your daily life. At least now that you know how you were made, you can moderate yourself to obtain the best from your life. I don't think that any amount of Psychotherapy shall change you fundamentaly however. This is just my opinion based upon my own experiences, many people may not agree with me.

I think Musicain has a lot more "weight" to what he said than he is being given credit for. First, anyone can copy and paste a study or a collection of opinions as to the cause of HPD. Both people who agree with Musician or those who disagree with what he said.

There has been a lot of recent speculation as to certain "genes" being involved with all cluster "b" disorders. Yes, as Alice posted, there is the belief that they are learned behaviors. But there is also the belief that BOTH are correct, meaning, that there are certain "genes" that people with a cluster "b" pd have...but that these genes--or the behavior of these genes--isn't activated or integrated into their neurology until they encounter a certain experience. This belief would mean the pd lies dormant until certain events or experiences in life happen that empower the genes to develop into a reality (a learned behavior).

I recently have read a scientific study where people (both nons and those with the pd) sat down under M.R.I. brain scans to partake of an experiment. THE M.R.I. BRAIN SCANS WERE ALL CONCLUSIVE THAT THE BRAINS OF THE CLUSTER B WERE WIRED DIFFERENTLY. The non's brain and the cluster "b" brain all fired off different neurology to the point where this was considered a "recent breakthrough".

I don't know what the answer is...in all honesty. But to exclude what Musician said just because it doesn't sound "pleasant" is not going to help one discover solutions any better--especially if we are "candy coating" the problem.

Some people are born blind, some born deaf. Some peopel are born with mental handicaps, some born mentally retarted.

It is sad, but it happens--




Good luck,
Musician
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