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Authenticity of Self

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Authenticity of Self

Postby AGent » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:42 am

This is my first post and I would like to thank all the contributors to this HPD forum. Your posts have been a great help to me as I work to recover from a disastrous marriage with someone who has the somatic variant of this disorder.

I ran across this article by Dr. Daniel A. Bochner which offers a perspective that HPDs can achieve authenticity of self and that the only path to recovery for HPDs is by irrefutably demonstrating the hurtfulness of their behavior. There isn’t any clinical evidence presented in his article and this is contrary to everything I’ve read and experienced so I question if Dr. Bochner is just wishfully thinking. I’d certainly like to know if anyone has had any success with his formula or has any clinical evidence of success.

This is reposted from: http://www.drbochner.com/HistrionicPersonality.html

HISTRIONIC PERSONALITYby Dr. Daniel A. Bochner

Drama!!! That's what most people think of when they hear the word “histrionic.” In fact, that's exactly what it means with respect to personality. Histrionic Personality is the term used to describe a person who engages in drama as the primary way of defending against the vulnerabilities they fear most. Typical traits of the Histrionic Personality include exaggerated responding, a need to be the center of attention, a seductive nature, extreme femininity in feminine histrionics and extreme masculinity in masculine histrionics as well as a tendency to be easily influenced. Other less obvious traits include the inability to take responsibility and the inability to feel special. Although histrionic behavior is utilized frequently when a person does not actually have Histrionic Personality (for example, individuals with Borderline Personality frequently behave histrionically), for the individual who truly manifests this personality, it is the need to feel special and the inability to take responsibility that is truly at the core of Histrionic difficulties.

Typically the development of the Histrionic Personality begins very early in life. Two factors 1. the self-centered nature of the infant and 2. extreme interpersonal conflict in the infant's environment, combine to create a torturous level of responsibility and a complete lack of specialness. It may sound strange, but the natural tendency of the baby to feel that they exist at the center of everything gives life to the core of the problem. New born babies have a completely chaotic experience that is structured by the parenting they receive. The baby cries and they wait for the parents to respond. From the perspective of the adult, it would seem like such an experience would lead the child to feel that nothing is in their control. To the ever-learning baby, however, the experience is more like everything is about them. They poop or pee and the foul mess is whisked away with a pleasant wipe wipe, googly bubbly noises, and a reassuring smile. They feel hungry, whimper or cry, and they're offered sweet milk from a breast or a bottle while they bask in glorious repose with a warm pleasant body. Out of disorganized chaos of unmet needs and instincts emerges a sort of magical sense of power over the world. Unfortunately, in the world of the child who will develop Histrionic Personality, the magic does not last as long as necessary.

Although the history of the Histrionic person typically involves a loving mother, and sometimes a loving father, as the child develops, there also tends to be dramatic conflict between their caretakers. Frequent, and vociferous arguing, with lack of resolve, dominates the experience of the child. Even worse, the actual conflict is often about the child because each parent feels the other should be doing more, or because the child's behavior is out of control (like that of the parents) and each adult argues about how to handle that behavior. Because the child feels that they are at the center of the universe and that everything happens because of them, the child starts to feel that the conflict is their fault. In fact, the child often feels as though each of the parents can only be comforted by the child. When it is the opposite sex parent that needs most of the comforting, it is quite typical for the child's behavior to become sexually charged.

The sense of responsibility for the conflict and heightened chaos, along with the feeling of being the go-to person of one of the parents during conflicts, leads to tremendous guilt. In fact, the possibility that the tearing apart of ones parents could possibly be the child's fault, in turn leads to extreme discomfort with any kind of responsibility. This is the hallmark of the Histrionic. Histrionics eschew even the most mundane kinds of responsibility as though any kind of responsibility reminds them of the trauma they experienced when their caretakers could not stand each other. In severe Histrionics, there can be almost wholesale avoidance of responsibility, while in less severe cases only social/relational responsibilities pique the pathological vulnerability.

Drama becomes a part of the picture for complex reasons. Initially, the child simply finds that the behavior they see in their parents can be used by the child to stop the parents' fighting and to get attention for themselves. On one hand, parents tend to stop fighting when kids act really badly so that they can attend to the child's behavior. On the other hand, and as indicated above, often the child's behavior leads to more fighting. Thus, while bad behavior may secure attention for the child in the short run, in the long run that attention is lost when the parents return to conflict over how to handle the child's behavior. One way or the other, the child quickly learns that only the most exaggerated behaviors get any attention at all. In the child who comforts one of the parents, very specific kinds of exaggerated responding can start to be shaped, including ways of making that parent feel special such as sexual seductiveness. It is unfortunately all too common for those cases in which a child takes to comforting the opposite sex parent that the hurt parent turns to the child for the kind of closeness that is meant to remain between adults.

The effect of the dramatic behaviors engendered in the child is very difficult to repair. The child becomes dramatic to get attention instead of just acting like a regular child. Thus the specialness of the child, that unique spirit that can come only from an individual who is comfortable enough to be true to their nature, is banished. The child learns to be dramatic to get special attention. But the drama is exaggeration. It is not the real child. Thus, the child, and the Histrionic adult the child becomes, can never feel truly recognized as special. In fact, if anything, their histrionic behaviors worsen over time as they continue to attempt to get a feeling of being special with behaviors that are not true to their own spirit and thus can never lead to a true feeling of specialness.

The inability to take responsibility also precludes the possibility that the Histrionic will get any feeling of specialness. In general, as people become adults, it is their hard work that distinguishes them from others. In order to achieve, it is necessary to take responsibility. This is true in work or education, of course, but it is also true in relationships. Our teachers, our supervisors, and our loved ones all need to be able to count on us and trust us in order work with or stay with us. In school, assignments must be done. At work we are not promoted unless the boss thinks she can trust us. When we disappoint a potential mate repeatedly we're not likely to get more intimate with them. Thus, the Histrionic, unable to take responsibility, consistently disappoints or irritates others with whom they relate. Thus, they cannot get a feeling of special recognition through achievements, nor can they develop any special feeling within their relationships.

Yet the relationships of the Histrionic are constantly affected by their desperate desire to be treated as special. Typically, the intimate involvements of a Histrionic begin in extreme excitement. People in need of drama find the Histrionic irresistible. Very few people, however, can tolerate an ongoing relationship with them. When their behavior is not treated as special, the Histrionic becomes extremely upset. But they do not allow special intimacy. Thus they are expecting their drama to gain them this special recognition, but when their partner no longer thinks of the drama as special, since really only ones true vulnerabilities really make a person special, it becomes very difficult to continue treating the drama as special. To make matters worse, when the Histrionic is confronted, they will not, of course, take responsibility. The suggestion that they are responsible results in extreme anger, denial, and blame. The Histrionic tries to do anything they can to put the responsibility back on their accuser (or someone else if possible). Meanwhile, they continue to try to get special attention in the same way they always have. If they can't get that attention from their partner, they will look elsewhere. They will also not take any responsibility for that behavior, even though it is tremendously hurtful and clearly violates the bond they expect to have with their partner.

With all that said, it may seem that there is practically no way to solve the dilemma of the Histrionic personality. They are locked in to looking for attention in a way that will never truly make them feel special because their drama is not connected to their authentic nature. They will never even feel recognized or important because a lack of responsibility taking precludes true accomplishments. While it may be difficult to see at first, it is the taking of responsibility, however, that can actually lead to a cure. Unfortunately, because the Histrionic is so averse to responsibility, finding a way to get the Histrionic to be responsible is very difficult.

There is really only one way to directly effect change in the Histrionic. When the Histrionic's behavior has been hurtful, the hurt must be stated in such a way that the Histrionic is unable to deny the effect of their actions. Of course, the Histrionic will do everything possible to avoid such responsibility. They will intensify their own reaction to make the other back off. They will blame the other so it won't be their own fault. They will ridicule their partner to shame them and weaken them. All of these maneuvers will be tried, and tried in the most intense fashion, for one main reason. The Histrionic cannot stand the idea that they have caused pain in someone else. That one factor has led to the creation of their whole personality. It is their own pain they are avoiding, and actually holding the idea that they are creating pain, makes them go haywire. They do not want any pain that has been caused to be their fault because it brings them back to the original and damning vulnerability that they are the cause of the pain that made conflict between their parents. So, if someone who they feel is dear to them will not remit in stating that they feel hurt because of something the Histrionic has done, the Histrionic will break their own facade. They will take responsibility and apologize. When this is done, they get one minute step closer to becoming a person who can take responsibility.

While this process is clearly quite slow, it does nevertheless, lead the Histrionic to becoming more responsible and thus to becoming a fully integrated person. The feeling that they are unacceptable as a person because they are at fault for causing huge pain, slowly erodes as they see the other forgive them for what they thought was so unacceptable. Their own pain, caused by loss of security in their family when their loved ones were at war, heretofore hidden because it too was tied up with feelings of being unacceptable, gets freed up as they see for themselves that they did what they had to do to protect themselves as youngsters. They see that what they did, how they felt, and how they continue to behave, are all connected and that the true, vulnerable self beneath the surface that they had always hidden, needs attention, understanding and love. In a word, they finally see that they are truly special. They see that what makes them special is the unique softness within and how it expresses need and desire as well as strength and integrity. Once they see their own specialness, their ability to be responsible leads to ever greater connectedness with their intimates whom they now prize and nurture. Because they see themselves as special and deserving, they also now expect others to prize and nurture them, but for their real self and not for their drama. What was once dramatic flair, only indirectly related to true self expression, becomes authentic spontaneity. Others can see the authentic spontaneity in its full flower and are drawn to it where they had once been merely entertained by, but not connected to, the Histrionic's flamboyance.

This process of taking responsibility is very rare and only a small minority of individuals suffering from Histrionic personality will ever recover. Recovery takes a commitment that can only come from a feeling that things really never seem to work out and that there has to be some reason. The Histrionic must come to some initial realization that they are responsible before they can begin the journey of becoming more and more responsible. If the Histrionic can endure the pain of accepting responsibility, however, they can learn to accept themselves. When they do, when they finally see that they are deserving of the special love they have always craved, when they can see their own ability to care for the specialness in others, and to operate in their families and in their world in a way that demonstrates their integrity as a caring and connected individual, all that the world has to offer is made available, and the Histrionic they once were becomes a full and healthy, spontaneous and authentic partner with the whole universe.


Thanks again for all your insight and I look forward to your comments.

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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby masquerade » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:26 pm

Clinical evidence of success? l don't know. All l know is that every single word of this article resonated with me!!!!!!!!! If you read my post on the Borderline Board "Mourning for the Days of Ignorance" and the related post on this board "Re Mourning for the Days of lgnorance" you will see that as l am recovering in therapy and the realities of the adult world are emerging l am beginning to face up to responsibilities, and finding it very uncomfortable to do so.

l could identify with EVERYTHING in the above article and many of my past relationships ended because l had a huge need to be made to feel "special" by my partners. When of course they could not deliver l would look elsewhere as my sense of self esteem was so caught up in this need to be made to feel "special". The more a partner would try, the bigger my demands became. Nothing was ever good enough and l doubted that they loved me because l saw myself as deeply deeply unlovable.

l know that my "cure" or healing will not come about unless l FACE UP TO THE ADULT WORLD. That is so, so difficult for me and yet l must do it, step by step. l will be healed when l know in my heart and my mind and my soul, REALLY KNOW, that my "specialness" arises because of my uniqueness as a human being and that I AM EQUALLY special to everyone else. To feel inferior and compensate by "spoilt child superiority" is essentially what this disorder is all about. l need to begin to think and feel and react and act as an adult ON AN EQUAL BASIS. Maybe this feeling of equality will then lead to the empathy that seems to be so elusive at times?

l also need to acknowledge that l am a HURTING human being, not in a victim like way as l have been doing, but to acknowledge that l am hurting and for good reason and to feel the whole range of emotions at there core whilst not letting the hurt or the victim attitude define me. l need to acknowledge that OTHERS HURT EQUALLY - and not "use" my own pain as a means of feeling special. MY MOTHER USED TO DO THAT. My mother who was damamged and histrionic and hurting and lovable and hateful and so many other things. l feel empathic towards her for the first time ever because now l can see where she was coming from. She felt her pain deeply but it became her definition and l was doing the same. lt was becomming my means of being special.

My therapist has talked about "egocentricity" and l am going to Google every bit of information l can find about it and continue reading and studying everything that may be of help. lt doesn't matter whether or not the above article has been backed up by research, not to me, because l could identify so much with it and it clarifyed so much for me. Thanks.
http://youtu.be/myyITD5LWo4

http://youtu.be/IaBLhoWTkMI

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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby highroad » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:39 pm

AGent - this is an extraordinary piece. It pulls together many of the fragmented and obscure emotions that have bounced around in my soul for the past three years looking for a place to rest. It parallels my experience with my ex-HPD to a frightening degree of accuracy. This will be on my night stand for a while as I process this new insight.

The responsibility issue was the main reason everything fell apart. We all see it in the adult HPD as immaturity. It does reach a tipping point. You have to lead 2 lives - yours and hers... and she has no problem with that.

Thanks for his post. Below are my favorite excerpts….

Very few people, however, can tolerate an ongoing relationship with them. When their behavior is not treated as special, the Histrionic becomes extremely upset. But they do not allow special intimacy. Thus they are expecting their drama to gain them this special recognition, but when their partner no longer thinks of the drama as special, since really only ones true vulnerabilities really make a person special, it becomes very difficult to continue treating the drama as special. To make matters worse, when the Histrionic is confronted, they will not, of course, take responsibility. The suggestion that they are responsible results in extreme anger, denial, and blame. The Histrionic tries to do anything they can to put the responsibility back on their accuser (or someone else if possible). Meanwhile, they continue to try to get special attention in the same way they always have. If they can't get that attention from their partner, they will look elsewhere. They will also not take any responsibility for that behavior, even though it is tremendously hurtful and clearly violates the bond they expect to have with their partner.


When we disappoint a potential mate repeatedly we're not likely to get more intimate with them. Thus, the Histrionic, unable to take responsibility, consistently disappoints or irritates others with whom they relate. Thus, they cannot get a feeling of special recognition through achievements, nor can they develop any special feeling within their relationships.
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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby AGent » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:14 pm

Thanks for the responses.

The fundamental part of this article that seems contrary to everything else that I’ve read is:

The Histrionic cannot stand the idea that they have caused pain in someone else. That one factor has led to the creation of their whole personality. It is their own pain they are avoiding, and actually holding the idea that they are creating pain, makes them go haywire.


This sounds like empathy and it was my understanding that the Histrionic has little if any capacity to feel empathy. In his article, Dr. Bochner makes an entirely different argument that the Histrionic avoids feeling any empathy because:

They do not want any pain that has been caused to be their fault because it brings them back to the original and damning vulnerability that they are the cause of the pain that made conflict between their parents.


Dr. Bochner goes onto say that it is possible to force the Histrionic to take responsibility for their behavior:

So, if someone who they feel is dear to them will not remit in stating that they feel hurt because of something the Histrionic has done, the Histrionic will break their own facade. They will take responsibility and apologize.


Finally, Dr. Bochner states that there is a process for the Histrionic to become and authentic integrated person:

While this process is clearly quite slow, it does nevertheless, lead the Histrionic to becoming more responsible and thus to becoming a fully integrated person. The feeling that they are unacceptable as a person because they are at fault for causing huge pain, slowly erodes as they see the other forgive them for what they thought was so unacceptable. Their own pain, caused by loss of security in their family when their loved ones were at war, heretofore hidden because it too was tied up with feelings of being unacceptable, gets freed up as they see for themselves that they did what they had to do to protect themselves as youngsters. They see that what they did, how they felt, and how they continue to behave, are all connected and that the true, vulnerable self beneath the surface that they had always hidden, needs attention, understanding and love. In a word, they finally see that they are truly special. They see that what makes them special is the unique softness within and how it expresses need and desire as well as strength and integrity. Once they see their own specialness, their ability to be responsible leads to ever greater connectedness with their intimates whom they now prize and nurture. Because they see themselves as special and deserving, they also now expect others to prize and nurture them, but for their real self and not for their drama. What was once dramatic flair, only indirectly related to true self expression, becomes authentic spontaneity.


So my questions are has anyone broken through the massive repression and denial that is the hallmark of HPD and learned to have genuine empathy and achieved authentic integration of self? Also, is Dr. Bochner’s process viable?

Thanks again for your interest.

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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby wisdom » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:01 pm

So my questions are has anyone broken through the massive repression and denial that is the hallmark of HPD and learned to have genuine empathy and achieved authentic integration of self?


Yes. Good results have been posted for specific treatments. Transference Based Psychotherapy (Kernberg), DBT (Linehan), Plain old Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy (Freud brought up to date) and some instances of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (Beck) have all shown solid results as reported in the type of professional journals such that insurance companies have difficulty denying the efficacy of the treatments. (I.e. you can "go to the bank" on those....)

I'm not sure if "family therapy" / social worker type typical approaches to treating PDs are "proven" effective? However, I readily admit that lots seems to come out of a good genogram as input, particularly at the outset of psychodynamic psychotherapy. That contribution from sociology seems especially helpful to evaluate potential pharmaceutical needs (e.g. family history of depression, anxiety, etc) and is critical to diagram out problematic early childhood issues, especially incest and abuse.) It helps the patient and therapist understand how the "self" may have become fragmented.

As long as the PD patient doesn't have too many AsPD features the above therapy techniques, correctly applied with diligence, do provide substantial push-back and relief from the symptoms.
Last edited by wisdom on Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby AGent » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:45 pm

Thank you again for your responses.

I still find Dr. Bochner’s paradigms in conflict, or at least outside of the journaled perspective. Two examples are:

1. Bochner suggests that a person with HPD is unwilling to accept responsibility because of their subconscious guilt of causing parental conflicts whereas the traditional viewpoint is their unmet need to be nurtured and taken care of. These motivations seem very different to me and while I can understand that they can coexist, it seems to me that trying to encourage someone with HPD to realize they can be self sufficient and that they are capable of taking care of themselves is a harder road and leaves a lot of unfinished business and hence a lower likelihood of success if the guilt that Dr. Bochner’s proposes is not addressed.

2. Bochner suggests that someone with HPD’s limitation to feel empathy is because of their sensitivity of causing pain in their parent’s relationship rather than an overwhelming defensive protection of the false image of themselves. Again, while I can see these coexist, Bochner’s perspective entirely breaks the traditional paradigm that HPD’s are diminished in their capacity to feel empathy.

I’m struggling here to explain how I see Dr. Bochner’s paradigms so opposite the traditional viewpoint and I can’t help but wonder if he is just spinning a more palatable viewpoint or if he is on to something.

I appreciate your comments and viewpoints.

AGent
Last edited by AGent on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby Musician924 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:10 pm

I think a lot of what the DR has to say makes perfect sense. However, the resolution of the problems seems almost too easy, and not enough emphasis was placed upon how to manage and get to them. Its almost like he spent 6 hours throughly engaged in the first part of his thesis, became tired when he came to his hypothetical resolution, wrote it and his conclusion out fast and incomplete, drank back his hot chocolate and went off to bed.
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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby AGent » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:27 pm

Thanks Musician,

That is exactly my point; Dr. Bochner’s resolution of the problem seems too easy.

So, if someone who they feel is dear to them will not remit in stating that they feel hurt because of something the Histrionic has done, the Histrionic will break their own facade. They will take responsibility and apologize.


I’ve never been able to make this happen and I haven’t read of anyone else on this forum who has either. However the big paradigm shift in Dr. Bochner’s proposition is this is possible with unrelenting resolve. That someone with HPD is repressing the hurt their behavior has caused more because they don’t want to feel empathy and therefore guilt than because it fractures their self image. So my question remains has anyone ever been able to convince someone who has HPD that their behavior is “responsible” for the hurt they have caused (instead of concentrating on the dysfunctional results) and if this epiphany brought the HPD to a more authentic perspective of themselves? Basically, can anyone on this forum provide just one example?

Thanks again!

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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby Musician924 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:58 am

Hi AGent
I did not knowingly try this with my X. I said not knowingly because i did not know what HP was at the time; but what i did know was that her actions were off the wall to say the least, and extremely hurtful. I am not just talking about her interactions with me, but with other people, even here family. Sometimes trying to make her feel respoonsible for her actions would be like peeing against the wind, it would all just come back on me. However, on rare occasions, she would seem completely open, even come to me herself and want to talk about her inconsistent relationships and absurd, puzzling actions. She would admit to things, say she realized she was growing, say she was changing etc! She would seem to be on the rails for weeks, calm, consistent, logical, words and actions the same, then "poooffff!!!" like magic she would change back to the way she was before. So what Dr Bochner said is easier said than done.

Thanks Musician
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Re: Authenticity of Self

Postby Musician924 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:58 am

Hi AGent
I did try this with my X, but now knowingly. I said not knowingly because i did not know what HP was at the time; but what i did know was that her actions were off the wall to say the least, and extremely hurtful too. I am not just talking about her interactions with me, but with other people, even her family. Most time trying to make her feel responsible for her actions would be like peeing against the wind, it would all just come back and mess upon me, and her ways of avoiding responsibility would be very twisted with some low punches thrown in to knock me off balance. However, on some occasions, she would seem completely open, even come to me herself and want to talk about her inconsistent relationships and absurd, puzzling actions. She would worry about things, admit to things, say she realized she was growing up, say she was changing "NOW" etc! She would seem to be on the rails for weeks, calm, consistent, nice to be around, logical, words and matching actions, then "poooffff!!!" like magic she would change back to the way she was before. It always caught me off balance, because the switch was so fast and so seemingly un-triggered. So what Dr Bochner said is easier said than done. I ended the relationship because i could not take anymore of it, and god knows i did try before throwing in the towel...

Thanks Musician
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