Dissociative Acts Of Anger & Destruction?

I have been dissociating from 'myself' for many years, beginning with my first trauma at the age of 7 and continuing up to now at the age of 32. Most of my dissociative epesodes are completely blacked out or hazed memories from the past that I will not allow myself to feel or remember, but I'm experiencing a possably 'new' kind of dissociation now, where in the split from my natural (good) self is branched off into other facets of personality ranging from everything to childlike behaviors, extreme sexual rampages and life ruining anger/revenge... Is this 'normal' Histrionic/Borderline Behavior or am I in big trouble here?

Allow me to ellaborate a bit:

At times I become very childlike and even now at the age of 32 I will literally run through the amuzement park and scream on the rides like an insatiable child/teenager fixedated on the adrenaline rush. My head gets light, my arms feel wieghtless and my face tingles as I 'become a child' once more. I am cohierent through this transition, before, during, and after the fact as well. I remember almost everything (only short term usually, with some things remaining in long term memory) and the entire time I am 'me' but another piece of me who is an eternal child...

Sexuality has been a major part of my life and big piece of 'who I am' as a whole, but I go through periods of my life were it literally consumes my life, every hour of every day for months and even YEARS at a time. Since the age of 12 I was regarded as a 'slut' and passed around by the local boys in our neighborhood. I became a stripper in my mid teens and did that for a long time, and following that I was an internet exabitionist and swinger, looking to expand my sexuality and dabble in the dark side of things (BDSM & EXTREME KINKS). I'm intensly sexual and sexually perverse. When I get sexually arroused or inspired my heart starts beating hard and heavy, my nipples tingle, my clitoris aches, I can feel a sexual hunger and passion pour through my body. It encomases my face, my neck, shoulders and spine; it travels all the way along my legs and the heated thick sensation is my only driving force for the moment. It literally reverberates through me like a blazing, firey energy; it's a starving hunger that can not be satisifed by masturbation alone. It's almost animalistic in nature and it's overwhelmingly intense. If I do not get satisfied to my liking, either by direct action by a random party or a specific object (person) of my lust- it can last like this, at this intensity for days on end.
It's terrible!
While I am there I am 'me' but a different part of me that is set on pleasure bent and has no reason of right and wrong in my desires. Again, I remember most things, and although my sexual fog hazes my perceptions I am still 'me' and there in the moment...

My anger and frustrations. I'm not sure if this is due to Borderline or the BiPolar in me, but when I get mad I get heatedly mad! If I feel hurt, I'm bent on hurting those who have hurt me (even their pain was caused un knowingly or indirectly to me by irrelevant to me actions) and I set out to destroy them emotionally. Physical abuse, emotional/verbal abuse, ruining carrers, reputations and even sleeping with their best friend(s) as a source of causing them pain- I am relentless in my persuit to harm them!
Now here again, I'm aware of what's happening before, during and after, but if I was 'me' in 'my right mind' I'd NEVER do these things to anyone. It only happens with those with whom I have a romantic interest in and I'm not sure why that is, but I do these things out of anger and spite. I'm in the heat of the moment and I honestly HAVE NO PERCEPTION of right or wrong in my actions towards hurting them emotionaly at this time when I 'flip out' or 'flip the switch' so to speak. Pyshically I feel no symptoms as mentioned in my afore dissociations (if that is in fact what they are) but I'm determined to harm them emotionally, NOT PHYSICALLY, even though I have thrown the odd drink, punch and any other damaging/defaming item in the past, I've found that the emotional torture is far more painful for them and 'rewarding' on my end too.
I know what I'm doing, I'm thinking clearly and plotting out the worst revenge I think of -BUT- I'm not 'me' in my right mind, I'm some vengful spiteful, hurtful monster that takes over 'my mind' and using it to hurt most the ones I love....

So I ask you now, anyone who is reading this and has any insight ion these kinds of things:

1. IS this in fact a case of dissociation?
(as I'm not acting as the usual loving, sensitive, caring and endeering me- I tend to think it is)

2. IS THIS 'typical' Borderline/Histrionic Behavior? Or am I way far gone in this mental mess that polutes my mind?

3. HOW do I fix these problems and deal with these issues to try n' create some kind of 'normal' life?

I thank you for reading this any help would be greatly appriciated here
~Alice

Alice,

I read through all your posts and tried to organize a starting brief. I can see you have been through "the ringer" however I've noticed some very intact areas in your psyche - self reflective function, strong desire to change, remarkable knowledge of how your "spiteful anger" system works, great self insight, etc. Plus you seem to express a true desire to change! That's a terrific start. Great prognosis!!!

I think many other HPDers and Non's alike can look at this and relate to many, many parts of it. You show remarkable insight into the "classic" HPD inner thought process as its often expressed by the heavyweight psychoanalytic community. In many cases the similarities between what you say and what they describe is remarkable!

Much to learn from reading your posts! Much like Masquerade (at least early on) I think you sell yourself short in the intellect department. Wow, a sexy stripper who can both think and write really well??? Doesn't get any better than that! (LOL yes that was meant to be very lighthearted and up). You get it together and save the sexy stuff to sock it to your one final lifelong dedicated mate and you are going to find the happiness you so desperately deserve.

The stuff you are fighting came to you uninvited in your youth. Ye,s pushing all that back will take a super effort but it can be done. You are closer to it than you think.

More comments following my "rehash" of your posts.

AliceWonders posts, re arranged with some emphasis added wrote:
Goal

My question is this though: after so, many failed attempts to 'fix myself' I NEED TO BE FIXED!!!!!! HOW do I fix this? Where do I begin? And how do I MAKE SURE I get the HELP I need and not just a band-aid pat on the back along with my psych bill?

Driving force for change

A very recent breakup with a man I adored has brought about my search for help this time around.

Symptoms

I'm experiencing a possibly 'new' kind of dissociation now, where in the split from my natural (good) self is branched off into other facets of personality ranging from everything to childlike behaviors, extreme sexual rampages and life ruining anger/revenge...

At times I become very childlike and even now at the age of 32 I will literally run through the amusement park and scream on the rides like an insatiable child/teenager fixated on the adrenaline rush. My head gets light, my arms feel weightless and my face tingles as I 'become a child' once more. I am coherent through this transition, before, during, and after the fact as well. I remember almost everything (only short term usually, with some things remaining in long term memory) and the entire time I am 'me' but another piece of me who is an eternal child...

Prior diagnosis

many diagnosis (Everything from SAD, Hyper Sensitivity, Hyper Awareness, Bi Polar Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder, Histrionic Personality Disorder, Paranoia, Dependency, and so many other 'dissociative' disorders and the like)

I know I identify most with the Borderline and Histrionic Personalities as a whole in regards to symptoms and behaviors

when the cold and dark of the seasons change my SAD kicks in, sets off my bipolar depression and I'm literally grounded on the couch for days/weeks & months at a time.

Prior therapy & transference

I've seen several psychotherapists, dozens of counselors and even a real psychiatrist, trying to figure this out. Every time I go to get help, I get comfort and support. They tell me it's OK to be this way, that I'm a good and valuable person, and that I have a lot to offer the world as a unique individual. That's NOT Helping Me!

I know the fix comes on my end, but I don't have the copping skills or tools needed to my work in the process

[therapist was like -- read here... "transference!"]

man WAS NOT LISTENING to me
merely observing me
asking the same repeated questions, several times through out the course of our sessions.

the day before I would see him I was filled with anxiety,
the day of the meeting I was a mess (obviously)
the day after the appointment I was completely drained
I had 2 children and I was guaranteed to be a mental mess, a pleb, for at least 3 days of the week no matter what else I was feeling or experiencing in my world.

Starter Genogram

Female age 32
single mother of 2 (not sure?)

son 10 (2000)
daughter 4 (2006)
college student ?

Job/Profession - college student ?

Age 7 incest - I have been dissociating from 'myself' for many years, beginning with my first trauma at the age of 7 and continuing up to now at the age of 32. Most of my dissociative episodes are completely blacked out or hazed memories from the past that I will not allow myself to feel or remember

Age 11 reported incest but to no avail

Age 12 since the age of 12 I was regarded as a 'slut' and passed around by the local boys in our neighborhood.

Age 16 ish - I became a stripper in my mid teens and did that for a long time

18-20’s - internet exhibitionist
swinger, “looking to expand my sexuality”
dabble in the dark side of things
BDSM
EXTREME KINKS

2000 – son born (now 10)
After the birth of my first child many of my 'underlying issues' were triggered by the hormones of giving birth and breast-feeding
family MD (Canada) said the wait is too long for a psychiatrist
prescribed EffexorXR
Effexor helped with the anxious feelings I was having and helped me to think a bit more clearly (without all the fuzz of flooding unfocused thoughts)
but I needed more and no one was hearing my plight!

2004 - 26th birthday party
Came home to my kids [kids plural? daughter not born yet?] singing me happy birthday around a cake they had baked me with my mother. I stood there as high as a kite knowing after all the pain I put them through, my stealing their money and breaking so many promises and hearts, I didn't deserve any of it. I went to detox that night, on my birthday and began the journey to sobriety.

2006 – daughter born (now 4)
in unstable marriage
5 months straight whacked out on cocaine and alcohol
went to rehab

2007 – Feb 2 when sitting outside of my son's birthday party [he was 7] I was just wanting it to end so I could call my dealer and get high, that I knew this HAD TO STOP!

2010 (Summer) I almost DIED this summer by taking my own life because of my despair and agony in being this way.

Intimate relationships/ seduction / sexual history

Age 7 incest, age 11 reported. 12 “regarded as a 'slut' and passed around by the local boys in our neighborhood”. 16? became a stripper, did that for a long time, 18-20’s - internet exhibitionist, swinger, “looking to expand my sexuality”, bdsm, “extreme kinks”

From teens to present age 32 - 5 men in long-term relationships (unprotected sex)
well over 150+ men (protected sex)
a few dozen women
couples
gang bangs
orgies
swingers parties/clubs,
BDSM
Fetish Addictions

Sexuality has been a major part of my life and big piece of 'who I am' as a whole, but I go through periods of my life were it literally consumes my life, every hour of every day for months and even YEARS at a time.

I'm intensely sexual and sexually perverse. When I get sexually aroused or inspired my heart starts beating hard and heavy, my nipples tingle, my clitoris aches, I can feel a sexual hunger and passion pour through my body. It encompasses my face, my neck, shoulders and spine; it travels all the way along my legs and the heated thick sensation is my only driving force for the moment. It literally reverberates through me like a blazing, fiery energy; it's a starving hunger that cannot be satisfied by masturbation alone. It's almost animalistic in nature and it's overwhelmingly intense. If I do not get satisfied to my liking, either by direct action by a random party or a specific object (person) of my lust - it can last like this, at this intensity for days on end.

It's terrible!

While I am there I am 'me' but a different part of me that is set on pleasure bent and has no reason of right and wrong in my desires. Again, I remember most things, and although my sexual fog hazes my perceptions I am still 'me' and there in the moment...

[note the repeated use of "bent" in both the sex and the aggressive areas...pain with pleasure...]

Aggressive Drive

when I get mad I get heatedly mad! If I feel hurt, I'm bent on hurting those who have hurt me (even [if] their pain [the pain they caused me] was caused un knowingly or indirectly to me by irrelevant to me [normal every day chance event or something slightly injuring that would typically not bother Nons] actions) and I set out to destroy them emotionally. Physical abuse, emotional/verbal abuse, ruining carriers, reputations and even sleeping with their best friend(s) as a source of causing them pain - I am relentless in my pursuit to harm them!

Now here again, I'm aware of what's happening before, during and after, but if I was 'me' in 'my right mind' I'd NEVER do these things to anyone. It only happens with those with whom I have a romantic interest in and I'm not sure why that is, but I do these things out of anger and spite. I'm in the heat of the moment and I honestly HAVE NO PERCEPTION of right or wrong in my actions towards hurting them emotionally at this time when I 'flip out' or 'flip the switch' so to speak. Physically I feel no symptoms as mentioned in my afore dissociations (if that is in fact what they are) but I'm determined to harm them emotionally, NOT PHYSICALLY, even though I have thrown the odd drink, punch and any other damaging/defaming item in the past, I've found that the emotional torture is far more painful for them and 'rewarding' on my end too.

I know what I'm doing, I'm thinking clearly and plotting out the worst revenge I think of -BUT- I'm not 'me' in my right mind, I'm some vengeful spiteful, hurtful monster that takes over 'my mind' and using it to hurt most the ones I love....

OK as promised some comments. The fact you "see", at least on one level, exactly what is going on here is absolutely fantastic!

You described therapy as a three day draining and believe it or not that's exactly what you wanted! Remember it was strong emotion that "bent" your mind into this disorder, and it will likely take some strong emotions "bending it back" the way it was originally designed, which will be a lot happier.

You know one of your diagnosis is "dependent", so every chance you find yourself saying that others need to fix you, you just replace that with "I need to fix myself".

Obviously all addictive behaviors have got to go as job one: drugs (coke??? Come on you are smarter than that!!! That is nothing but total self destruction.) Alcohol - who needs it with a high performance body and overflowing mind like yours? Your dials were set on high at the factory, so why would you do anything to dull and confuse all that hyper-performance? Hello?

In my mind I'm certain, alcohol after about the first 1/4 to 1/2 a glass of wine just invites dissociation in HPDers. It's like inviting the devil right through your door, ushering him right in! Think of the really nasty devil who's smart and really just made up of lies - that's who you are inviting in!!! When he rings just say no thank you and slam the door. OK, one last addictive behavior that's got to go, and its a narcotic for you - the next new guy, the next "prize" the next cheap sexual/seduction "thrill" to be had... But you already knew that.

Remember that when you push back coke, alcohol and multi-partner hyper-sex as addictions something will have to take its place. And it will have to be fairly intense. Suggest you pour yourself out in writing because you are able to do that! Study HPD intensely -- much is known.... Ruminate, express, journal, look at your dreams and write them down, probe behind all "hidden" doors of your ultra repressed incest, examine every ounce of transference you felt during any and all of your prior therapy sessions. Spew in your journal, then look at it. For instance re read through the "brief" above and see if on a second pass through doesn't in some ways "speak to you", and perhaps give you ideas where Alice can say, "I'm in charge of fixing me, and I can see some ideas here of exactly what I need to work on...."

You can do it. You have strong insight into yourself, insight into the disorder itself, and the strong intellect that can pull you through it. Don't stop as it gets a bit emo, just hang in, and slowly crash through that.

People and prior posts on this board can get you so ready for live therapy that you will be able to go in like gangbusters! Still , I do recommend you do everything you can to get on the waiting list a very good PD expert therapist in your area. You don't need a psychiatrist but someone highly trained in psychoanalytic psychotherapy with substantial experience successfully treating cluster B's would do it perfectly. We can give you the tools and links here right on this board. With some effort on your part you can "do your homework" From there you can "show them you mean business and you are going to participate fully in therapy!!!" You might even send them some of what you are doing along the way "for my file, as I wait to be seen", and perhaps even be moved up on the schedule you seem so ripe for moving things ahead. Therapists (and virtually every Non on this HPD forum) just love fighters!

WOW! I thank you 'Wisdom' for your coments and that wonderful prognosis for recovery! Having beaten drugs and alcohol already I know that I am a fighter, many of my former therapists have commented that it's amazing I'm still here after the many traumas and abuses of my past. (Not sure if that's true or just commonly used tactick of empathy on their part) and perhaps my intelect could be part of the problem in this?

As opposed to being kept in the dark about what's happening during treatment, I desperately need to know what is happening and why- so that I am aware 'yes this tranference and I am listening, but this is just how it's done and you may get frustrated and angry- but that's SUPPOSED to happen' and also that I am 'safe' while being heard as a person. My issues have been brushed aside by medical doctors and family alike for so long, that often it just amplifies the thinking that no one is listening and more especially HEARING ME! Much like in that movie Titanic where 'Rose' states that she's "screaming in the middle of a crowded and no body hears me or will even look up" I feel the same in dealing with these issues and emotions. I feel like no one realizes my inner pain and struggles, I'm being nothing more than pushed through the motions of empathy and ushered out the door...

I'm not sure how treatment all works with this, I have spent the past 2 days researching online in various areas of the internet (many of the great links provided throough this site as well) and seen that is there some hope out there, some therapies and medications that can be used in making 'our' lives easier, but I also see the huge numbers in where suiciside is the over all out come, and some people although they can generally function are unable to live truly productive lives. These things frighten me, as I don't 'WANT' to die (not today at least) and I'm in school so that I can provide a btter future for my children- I want them to have the BEST LIFE HAS TO OFFER, not a mother who's all pilled out and barly able to function.

When I broke up with mt BF the other day he said I was wacked outta mind, seriously psychotic and I needed to be heavily sedated to keep myself and those around me safe. I'm pretty sure that these are spiteful hurtfilled words after all the trouble I caused him, but it got me wondering... "Am I pshycotic?" I know I'm not 'normal' but "Am I indeed Crazy?"

I can see from the many posts by others on these boards that many of the posters are actually family and friends of those with Borderline/Histrionic Personality Disorder, and I can see how our actions have impacted their lives so negitively, so often, and I wonder.... "Will I ever find true love and happiness in my life?"

When I was little people would ask me what I wanted to be when I grew up? Like many children, my earlier answers in life were a singer or movie star, model, etc... But as I aged and became a preteen my life had already encompased so much termoil that my answer changed to the simplest of things, "All I want is to be happy"
"Will I ever be happy?"

It's very hard to speculate on that I suppose, but those are some of my questions, along with a few more specific ones that may be a bit easier to answer from an across the screen point of view:

Is it possible to get well without the aid of medications? Just through thearapy alone?
What exactly IS 'cluster B'?

I thank you again for insight and information here, it has been very helpful and uplifting to see that could be hope for me, as I was feeling so hopeless in this for so long.

~Alice

AliceWonders wrote:many of my former therapists have commented that it's amazing I'm still here after the many traumas and abuses of my past. (Not sure if that's true or just commonly used tactic of empathy on their part) and perhaps my intellect could be part of the problem in this?

Intellect seems 100% intact. Empathy is part of all therapy. Still you have to get past the social niceties and into the emo pain areas for it to work. Remember many BPD do everything possible to sabotage their own therapy. At the inner core they are too "ashamed" to be known, too self loathsome. So they do everything to confuse the therapist. Its a defense. Of course they use their full intellect accomplishing their objective "not to be known". Its child's play for many BPD since they can be ultra smart and inter-personally exceptionally perceptive (and projective). I written more on it in a prior post. Obviously you need to be fully aware of all that and stop it yourself.

As opposed to being kept in the dark about what's happening during treatment, I desperately need to know what is happening and why

.

Again, check out some of my prior posts on the mechanisms of therapy (and there are many books and articles on "how/why" it works. Well worth reading, even if you are doing self therapy, or therapy with a non professional.

no one is listening and more especially HEARING ME! Much like in that movie Titanic where 'Rose' states that she's "screaming in the middle of a crowded and no body hears me or will even look up" I feel the same in dealing with these issues and emotions. I feel like no one realizes my inner pain and struggles, I'm being nothing more than pushed through the motions of empathy and ushered out the door...

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Part of you wants to speak and the other part OF YOU just doesn't want to listen. The "outside" professionals are just blank slates - you do the writing on the board, then they try to help you read what you have written. You are screaming to be heard but have you actually heard yourself? I'm convinced you are split internally. To integrate you are going to have to delve deep inside and stop accusing others of not listening when its you who are doing it. Vomit up into your posts EXACTLY what all these loathsome professionals just weren't hearing. Then read those expressions back to yourself and vomit up more! Just keep doing that! Sort it and organize it. Name everything. See "states of mind" in prior posts. Its not impossible to do. At the end of the day we want VOLUMES of well organized things swimming around in your head, all expressed in painstaking detail.

Here is a prime example. I asked you to read over the brief I created for you and flesh it out. Did you hear me? It actually was a great opportunity for you to finally speak and be heard - there are 100s of readers of this forum. Trust me they are listening.... See, its you, not the "blank slate" therapist (or readers of this forum) who is not communicating. Its you who is being "difficult". Gotta get the muck OUT, then reflect BACK on it in some detail. Express!!!

I want you to at least read this input form and think deeply about the questions. (Thank you John F. Clarkin, Eve Caligor, Barry Stern & Otto F. Kernberg!!!) See:
http://www.borderlinedisorders.com/asse ... ew1-07.doc
Skip the intro then just start right in.
Sort the answers and "summarize" it on:
http://www.borderlinedisorders.com/asse ... ng1-07.doc

Lots of work?
Yes indeed!
Worth it?
Yes!

Do you have the tools to be heard? Alice, its time to finally tell your story and actually be fully heard.

I'm not sure how treatment all works with this, I have spent the past 2 days researching online in various areas of the internet (many of the great links provided through this site as well) and seen that is there some hope out there, some therapies and medications that can be used in making 'our' lives easier, but I also see the huge numbers in where suicide is the overall outcome, and some people although they can generally function are unable to live truly productive lives.

BPDs do self injure so I'd advise that you don't allow yourself even to think for a moment that's a viable option. Its a cheap cop out, one that is sure to inure your kids deeply and permanently. Alice, you could never do that, not in your darkest hour. Besides, its too fun thinking about getting past all this crap and over to that "truly productive life" you would just love to have.

If you feel like killing yourself, work through the above questionnaire, do all the questions, write it all up, read it through, re write, and keep doing all that until there is just nothing more to say, not one shameful secret left in you. Trust me, that will probably feel just like suicide! (LOL - yes, that was an attempt to be lighthearted!) Don't be afraid to laugh at much of the process here! All emotions, including uplifting ones are totally allowed.

Seriously, remember part of you doesn't want to be known, doesn't want to be heard, doesn't want to come out of the dark, shameful closet, wants to remain hidden.... That part of you will fight therapy to the death. She will fight being known at all. Trust me here, its a paradox that lives inside.

I'm in school so that I can provide a better future for my children- I want them to have the BEST LIFE HAS TO OFFER, not a mother who's all pilled out and barley able to function.

OK, what's the subject? What level are you at? And how are your grades?

I'd suspect outside of "interpersonal relationships" your intellect is remarkably intact?

"Will I ever find true love and happiness in my life?"

Of course you will, however it won't be easy....

Is it possible to get well without the aid of medications? Just through therapy alone?

I believe in both but am by my very nature one to love natural solutions whenever that's a reasonably viable option. Have met many people who's lives are better on meds, much better; off them, they do horribly. They were born with,or developed later, a chemical imbalance that is only alleviated by outside interventions. "Better living through chemistry" is often true. For that set of individuals psych meds are a Godsend.

In other cases you just need the meds to allow the underlying therapy to take hold, then you can scale back the meds because the underlying problem is getting resolved. Others need meds seasonally, every "dark" season, or other period that recurs regularly. If anxiety or depression is pretty much an "every day" impairment then meds are clearly indicated. If not, just therapy alone can do wonders.

What exactly IS 'cluster B'?

Lots on this on the web. Just search DSM cluster b.

I thank you again for insight and information here, it has been very helpful and uplifting to see that could be hope for me, as I was feeling so hopeless in this for so long.

I'm glad you found it uplifting. I was not lying when I said based on what I know your prognosis looks very good. Everything you mentioned falls as the "least severe" end of the spectrum for BPD. I.e the most curable, in the shortest amount of time. So, despite what you may think you are a prime candidate to push this stuff back.

Were you to have a long/deep criminal record , no trace whatsoever of empathy, be severely mentally retarded, etc. I'd say prognosis using self-help would be more challenging. Alice, you have all the resources needed to get better, the choice is up to you. All you need do is put in the effort and I can pretty much guarantee that you will see positive results. The pros turn a case like yours positive typically within two years of twice weekly intense psychotherapy. You have already had some, plus you can move fairly rapidly with self help if you go at it with intensity. Still, its lots of work you have to "cope and hold it all together" as you vigorously persevere!

I can only stop in to this forum now and then, however I'm sure if you look at all of whats posted here and follow how others have "done it" you can easily get great results. Others, particularly the ones with HPD who are moving through the process can really help you plow through it. Many of the Non's too are exceptionally well versed in this (better than an average therapist in many, many instances, after all they have lived it "up close and personal" 24/7 over many, many years.) Lots of collective wisdom here so by all means plumb to the depth of it.

Hang in, and don't stop till you feel much better.

Thak you again Wisdom for all your... well... wisdom
I intend to check the links you provided first thing tomorrow morning when I get up and see what they're all about.

I will be brutally honest though, i am affraid, so affraid and scared like a little child again knowing that I have to face my past. Not just talk about it, but feel it and REMEBER IT, every detail that was done, every emotion and sensation- things I've been fighting for almost the entirety of my life. Am I affraid to 'own up to it' ?
No.

Of course there are things I wouldn't tell my mother, but to a non objective party I'd have no issue disclosing my most foul of deeds and desires. My FEAR IS: FEELING IT! Not just relating the occurance as a chain of events, but to know that it is REAL and it is MINE. My pain, my agony, my shame, my abuse, all of it and every moment all 100% MINE...
That is what I fear the most- the 'REALNESS' of it all.

I am split. I am absolutely split inside, into many factors of my 'self' all different, all the same, but all a working part of me as a whole. The biggest piece of me who has a full life inside my own is 'Pamela' (yes it's me, and the only reason that part of me even has it's own name is because when I was a stripper I used that as stage name, and then 'Pamela' and the name carried over into the other sexual aspects of my life) When I am in these sex situations I can not be called *-----* My real name, because the 'real me' would never do these things, and if I think about being ME at these times, I break character and my mind can't cope with it, and I fall apart... But that's whole nother ball of wax. For now Pamela can just chill while I sort out my own mind, and when the time comes to intigrate 'her' in to full being that is ME I'll deal with that struggle.

But for now I'm really just a scared child affriad of the pain I'm to feel if the grown up me is to get well.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm NOT Cyble. The me that is ME is fully aware of what the factors of myself do and 'we' are all part of the same 'me' that is writting this right now. I dunno, it's hard to explaine...

It's not that I'm ashamed of it or anything, but it's not really that clear to me how these pieces of me are seperated from me, yet they are me, but I need to pull them back into me- to become a complete me.

I suppose the only way I could compare that would be like, when I was in rehab for my cocaine addiction, the therapist there said that our brains were held by captive and didn't mature properly after our addiction first took hold of our lives. That the drugs kept our minds somewhat suspended in time at that particular age where we started to self medicate. So if I were to apply that same theory to my trauma in life and when it all began, my self suspended age would only be 7 years old- when my first trauma occured, and more than likely when I had my tearing of the fabric of my mind.

i'm not sure how relavent that is to this, but it's just an observation.

So yes, I am determined and I'm terrified of feeling everything, not again- but for the first time, because the first time (if I allow myself to remember briefly) I wasn't there in my body at all. I entered into the top of my head, into my mind, and blanked out what was going on. I couldn't understand it, I didn't know what was happening, and all I did know was that it wasn't right and I wanted to get out of there but I had no place to run, so I ran into the deepest part of my mind as an escape...

I really pushed the boundries of this insedent today though. I actually allowed myself to visualize a small piece of it happening, not much but more than I've veer allowed mysewlf to be a willing spectator or 'victom' of it since it happened some 25 years ago...

It's a small break through.
I'm not sure if this path I'm about to embark on is gonna make me well or just break to pieces. Yes I'm stalling on ending this and yes I'm stalling on checking the links, because once I open the door to my mind and feel that pain 'wisdom' I'm not gonna be able take it back unless I split off from what's happened and push it out of my memory- split myself and forget it even happened at all, and what good would that be?

for now, I'll just close with the simple fact that I'm scarred and I will make my next step and a new break through tomorrow.

Thank you for your help & good night

I woke up at 5am this morning and as promised, I read all of the 87 questions of the STIPO. I've created a new word.doc to write my answers and grade my responses.

I was unable to desiphere wether a high or low score was what determined anything of importance, but perhaps for now, it's just as well as I don't it want it to effect my answers (as it sometimes does in those magazine personality tests)

I've also been given an online journal here in the journal section of the Forum, so I intend to start it with the results and particular answers to my STIPO, and then just dive into my life from that point on...

Like I said, it's gonna be hard and it's gonna hurt- but if it's what will fix me, I'm willing to push through it, until the bitter end.

Thank you, I know you're listening and it's so refreshing to be HEARD- I have so much to say!!!!

AliceWonders in thinking about her very promiscuous alter, Pamela wrote:For now Pamela can just chill while I sort out my own mind, and when the time comes to integrate 'her' in to full being that is ME I'll deal with that struggle.

I love that quote! Yes we are sending Pammy right off stage, back to the dressing room to sit quietly and demurely on the bench for a while. She is going to be thinking a lot about herself. Like coke, we are not going to let her impulsively seek a quick, totally self-destructive "high" by misbehaving. We are choosing self-respect, integrity and enduring happiness; over self-destruction, endless fragmentation and quick/cheap thrills.

AliceWonders wrote:it's not really that clear to me how these pieces of me are separated from me, yet they are me, but I need to pull them back into me- to become a complete me.

It often takes two years of intense psychotherapy to get out and identify all the "pieces" look at them and ponder them. However, I think you will find the most difficult task is the effort it takes in just getting them all out in front of you, sorted, organized, labeled, indexed, ("states of mind" clustered and named) and all very much "on the table".

You will then be amazed that your head will just take over integrating them back together more coherently -- that part will just happen pretty much without any "effort" at all on your part. That phase will not be overly taxing and some of the "bursts of light" will be so uplifting it will keep you motivated. BPD treatment is very much "front end loaded" - the hardest stuff comes first. The secondary challenge is just endurance, keeping at it till you vomit up all that is inside, every perspective, every angle, every identity, every emotion. You have to hang in blindly for a while before you start to experience some of the "good stuff".

AliceWonders wrote:I suppose the only way I could compare that would be like, when I was in rehab for my cocaine addiction, the therapist there said that our brains were held by captive and didn't mature properly after our addiction first took hold of our lives. That the drugs kept our minds somewhat suspended in time at that particular age where we started to self medicate. So if I were to apply that same theory to my trauma in life and when it all began, my self suspended age would only be 7 years old- when my first trauma occurred, and more than likely when I had my tearing of the fabric of my mind.

I do like an addiction model applied to many aspects of BPD treatment, particularly the HPD seduction/sexual component that seems virtually identical with a narcotic high, complete with the self destructiveness of it. Spot on target!

I don't agree however with the visualization that with early childhood sex abuse it ended up "tearing the fabric of my mind". Your mind was working fine and has not been all ripped up to shreds so it can't function. If you hang in and stay with this your going to see just how fully intact your head actually is. It just had very bad programing at a critical stage. Underneath, the computer "hardware" is 100% functional. Works flawlessly. What's more, by "processing through" the bad programing that was added --- which by the way was 100% adaptive at the time, worked flawlessly to protect you at the time -- can in fact be re tuned to work perfectly again, as if it had not had to endure those tough times at all. However, since the "trauma" programing is deep rooted in childhood, its going to take real effort to reach down in there and get it straightened out.

Yes things were "arrested" as age 7. However since you are an adult now, you can "mature" at a much faster rate. We take the "blockage" off that occurred at age 7, and you can "mature" 10x faster than a 7 year old naturally matures in regular time. Lets say something was arrested at age 7 that would have fully matured by age 18. That's only 11 "maturing" years. After age 25 with your very well developed intellect you can likely "mature" in 1/10 the time it would normally take "back" then. After all you are a full grown adult. Once the blockage is off you should be up to full "maturity" there in about a year!

AliceWonders, speaking of early sex abuse courageously wrote:So yes, I am determined and I'm terrified of feeling everything, not again - but for the first time, because the first time (if I allow myself to remember briefly) I wasn't there in my body at all. I entered into the top of my head, into my mind, and blanked out what was going on. I couldn't understand it, I didn't know what was happening, and all I did know was that it wasn't right and I wanted to get out of there but I had no place to run, so I ran into the deepest part of my mind as an escape...

Very courageous writing! Guess what, that little seven year old girl is still trapped down "into the deepest part of your mind". We are going to exhume her because she was burred alive, but is remarkably totally alive and O.K! We need to be very careful with the back hoe that we don't dig so fast and carelessly that we end up crushing her coffin. And yes, we need to get that little girl up to the surface, out in the sun shine, clean up her face, some fresh nice clean cloths, get her some hugs, some TLC, let her swing on the swings, and let her "mature" up here.

She's been running the show sometimes down there, as a 7 year old. Doing the best she could. Bing spiteful, vengeful, vicious and generally approaching getting hurt like any 7 year old would, except it was a 7 year old in command of a full adult body, with full adult strength sexual impulses and cravings, full adult strength aggressive impulses, full adult perceptual facilities, and a full adult intellect.

Exhuming the grave, making the recovery, then bringing that little girl up to mature here on the surface will take time and effort. While she is trapped in that coffin hearing the sound of our back hoe clawing the earth around her, getting ready to expose her, is going to frighten her almost to death. After that however shes going to find life on the surface up here, in the warm sunshine sure beats whiling away time in the black, cold, damp, aloneness of that tiny coffin, buried six feet under, where no one can hear her scream.

I really pushed the boundaries of this incident today though. I actually allowed myself to visualize a small piece of it happening, not much, but more than I've ever allowed myself to be a willing spectator or 'victim' of it since it happened some 25 years ago...

It's a small break through.

No, its a major break through! Take breaks and keep digging up that little girl.

In between "going back and exhuming" cover the more routine parts of the big questionnaire in an attempt to work though the whole enchilada.Whenever you "flash back" by all means go fully with it and journal EVERYTHING you feel, even if it makes no sense to you right now. If you feel it, write everything about that down. Take brakes and don't frighten off that little 7 year old. And don't ram the back hoe into the coffin - be gentle as you get close, she is alive in there!!!

We are looking for fragments, pieces of a puzzle. Don't worry about putting it together just yet. Its all about finding the puzzle pieces that seem like they have been all shot up in the air. Just hunt around for them and collect 'em, because we pretty much need them all.

Super work!!!

I didn't realize until just right now, what exactly you meant when you said that a part of me would fight this with every piece of it's self. And while 'Pamela' is going to be difficult to handel because she's run the show so often for so long, 'the child' is is the one who's the most terrified of being seen, been exumed and being 'saved'... She knows she's safe were she is. No she can not do too much there, but she safe from harm and feeling pain.
I am crying now, as I was while reading some of what you wrote, and I'm not sure if it's the adult me who weeps for her in pitty, or the child me criing and affraid to be touched again.
I do know that when the child me cries, it is hysterical, and often forces me physically to the floor in distress filled bellowing and a true tightening, constrictive pain in both my heart and my chest. Sometime when I cry like this I can feel myself and even picture it, like a small mouse curlled up in the corners of my mind, trying desperately to hide from the pain in some kind of protective ball. At times when I cry this way I rock myself, on my haunches or on my side, I rock myself in comfort- trying self sooth and recompose.

As much as Pamela destroys me and my life, it is the child whom I fear the most. Her innocense lost through painfilled shock, her desprate cries for help when no one would hear her begging to be loved and accepted.
My garde 2 teacher, who was also my grade one teacher, and lived only 2 houses away from us in the small town where I grew up, once asked me if something happened when I was younger?. I don't remember why she asked, and I don't remember much of the conversation as a whole, but I do remember her saying that she saw a HUGE change in me at that age. As I would get frustrated, cause fights and be sent out in the hallway during my 2nd grade year. I rememeber stomping through the halls, kicking walls and wanting to, like the increadable hulk, pick up the water fountains from the wall and smash them to the floor in a thunder of destruction.
She asked me during one of my hallway epesodes why I had changed? She said "you used to be this bubbly little girl, so happy and full of life, where is that little girl? What's happened to her?"
All I could say in response was, "My borther, my brother..."
I don't think I knew what to say, I either didn't remember or understand enough to say what needed to be said, so when she asked if my brother had done something to me, I responded by saying, "No... I just miss my brother." Who had run away and been put back in juvinile detention for some new reason, yet again.

Even though I either couldn't or wouldn't remember what really happened, I knew it had something to do with my brother, and something about HIM was the source of my pain....

Even though I did grow up and have a childhood or sorts, it wasn't the childhood I was meant to have at birth. My genuine happiness and innocense was torn from me and I had become some kind of anger driven outcast. I no longer had any friends, I no longer had happiness, I was no longer innocent, and I was no longer the same sweet child I was born to be. Something took over and replaced the real me, I was still me (at least I think I'm me- it could be a totally different me now that I think about it more... But whatever it is, that base sense of me, is what I had left) this child was warped and different form the me I was when I was born, and she did discusting sexual acts with her body, inadiment objects, and anythng that would give her a sensation. She was sick depraved and not normal!

I'd say it would have been the early stages of Pamela, but I don't think so- Pamela is strong, sexy, powerful and every man desires her. This thing was warped and twisted, it had no power, only a sensationless curiostity for the sick and twisted. It was dull inpersonality, had little emotion, aside from anger and hurt, and it was very perverse.

I suppose when you say I need to 'let the child out' you're reffering to the innosent one- am I correct?

The thought of that frightens me to the point of illness. I feel tired, overwhelmed, and nausious just thinking about it.

I don't even know how to do that. How to pull these pieces of myself from thier hidding corners and bring them into view. They come as stimmulated or required. I have no control over it. If I did I wouldn't let any of them out to hurt people at all.

It's a lot to digest at the moment.

As always I thank you for your information, your compaission and your faith in my being able to this. You have more faith in me than I have right now, but for now I'll borrow some your faith to plug on threw the next part and get back to work on my STIPO.

Thank you
~Alice

Alice, your post moved me to tears. Hang on in there, you WILL come out of this dark cave and let the person who is really you SHINE. Please, always remember that.

Thank you Masquerade,

I'm not sure I know who I really am this week. I did think I knew who I was last month, but now I'm not sure if that ambitious, driven, passionate woman full of life and love was 'me' or just another part of me? I hope it was the real me, I really liked being that way!

But now I just don't know if that is in fact the 'real me' or just another part of me- the perserverent me, that meets life and it's challenges head on, determined to succeed and come out on top of every situation. Strong, confident, inquisitive and kind- is that me? I hope so!!!!

So much has happened to me and my son this past little while and it's realy shaken me, that me I am when I'm driven was torn of her firm ground after my son and I saw a dead body in the park next to our house on the way to school, a fire was started in our building in the middle of the night by some one who broke in to the vaccant units and set up a meth lab, I lent all my money to someone who needed it and now I'll never get it back, I had a brutal break up with my BF in which I cost him another job and he now hates me. All of this has happened in a matter of weeks, since the middle of Septemeber. And now that the strong me has been shaken the weak pleb of me is left to fight through the emotions and traumas, all scattered across the floor. I'm tired, depressed (not too badly depressed- I've been way worse than this, but I'm not up to my optimum preformance that's for sure) I'm anti social, and I've lost my sparkle again. I'm very tempted to just let Pamela take over, get involved in something sexual so that she can come out and I don't have to deal with this anymore. Let her make up the money I lost so we don't have to suffer financially, and let her have fun, wicch in turns brings me some kind of imidiate pleasure as well. But I know that's the right thing to do, so I'm fighting that urge with all my might. It's the easy way out and I want to fix myself once and for all that I never have to be this way and hurt anyone ever again!

Even now I struggle with that, so hard. To not open the door to Pamela. Not go somewhere sexual online or in my mind that will provoke her to slide down the brass pole in my mind and let her take over through my pain. I can clearly see that pattern now. I hadn't been able to see it before, but I see it now- RIGHT NOW, that's what I do. I get distrought, for one reason or another, and I open myself to sexuality, as I do this the cogs start turning and before long 'Pamela' is runnning the show. She seduces men, charms them to her will, uses them for anything she can, and spits them out effortlessly before moving onto the next poor adoring guy and she does it all over again. She is a whore for attention and gets a lot of it too. Money. gifts. paid vacations all over the world- these are the things she's offered by men, and though she doesn't take them all (vacations are a no no) the fact that people adore her so much is a drug that she can't resist. She gets the love and attention that I lack in my life- she has been my saving grace in many situations too- don't get me wrong she loves the attention and will except people gifts when offered, but she doesn't normally seek or even ask for any of it. They give it to her because they want to. They want her time and attention, so they ply her with pressents to have a small piece of her.
She is carring but loveless, and men often do fall in love with her. Because she doesn't feel love in that kind of sense, she doesn't stay with a man very long, and when she gets board or finds a new guy, she just leaves the old one wondering what he did wrong to be left by her at all. That's what I mean by she chews them up and spits them out/uses men/ect... She uses them for her pleasure and amuzment. Like toys.
Pamela's not bad (at I don't think she's bad) she's kind, she cares for people who are her friends, she's fun to be with, she makes everyone feel special and good about themselves for the most part. She's definitely the biggest part of me, aside from myself. She's been around for at least the past 16 years, or more (just un named) I think she may have been with me in my pre teens too. Maybe she's the girl the boys would pass around, but I'm not sure? Because although that girl was sexual and dying for love and attention like Pamela, she didn't have Pam's confidence and charisma.
No, Pamela is a treasure to everyone who knows her, and although she does have a tendancy to slut around, she's selective, has a sense of right and wrong, and is actually respected by many of those who know her. People often reffer to her as 'a good girl' because although she is sexual and care free, she wouldn't harm a fly.

I think that's why I allow her to come in to the main front most of the time. She has the courage, the passion, the love, the confidence and everything I lack during my weaker moments. She is the most powerful and well known of all my pieces, moreso than 'I' infact. nobody knows who 'I\ am, but people spanning the globe know Pam, and I've let her free rein over my life for at least 10+ years of my 32.

So the question remains though:
"WHO" am I?
Do I even know?