HPDs leave men emotionally unavailable?

So here´s my question for ex´s of HPDs, do you think they left you extremely emotionally unavailable once the relationship ended? Will you even unconsciously crave for that relationship again, or try to replay it with another Non HPD partner? I have read here the stories of many men that couldn´t find themselves again, that even with years they were still hurting and remembering their HPD-ex, mourning that they lost that "epic-love" and trying to digest the fact that they invested so much emotionally over a personality disordered person. As you enter this cycle post breakup, wouldn´t that mean that you are unavailable to sincerely love again for a long time, maybe years?

Thanks again for your insight!

I am not having a good day and wanted to wait till tomorrow before replying to this post but it struck such a cord with me that l had to write, l just hope you follow what l am trying to say as l really do feel out of sorts today.

l am trying to explain this from the perspective of someone who has been a victim and not from the perspective of someone who has a disorder although my disorder does come into play in all this. l was emotionally abused as a child and it has taken a long time to admit this to myself but admitting it was turning point for me. Because l was abused in this way l developed HPD AND CARRIED THE PATTERNS OF ABUSE INTO ALL OF MY RELATIONSHIPS. l am sure that l left behind scarred people in my wake who have carried the same pattern into all of their relationships, affecting any subsequent partners they have, who will continue the pattern. And so it goes on and on and on. lts like an ongoing cycle.

My therapist has told me that disorder breeds disorder. She believes that people with personality disorders often also have PTSD and that the partners of abusers often go on to develop PTSD. l am now reconciled with my husband and we are also going for ccouples counselling in addition to my own therapy in an attempt to salvage something of our relationship which was hanging on by a thread and it is still not always easy. During our split he became involved with a woman who did not have a disorder and although he is not disordered himself he found himself acting towards her in the ways that l acted towards him. The only way he could describe it was to say that it was a safety mechanism to prevent himself from becoming hurt. lf he distanced himself from the relationship he would be "safe". He said that during this time he had little or no empathy for her feelings. He craved closeness to her and then would become distant from her. ln short he was acting just like me which is out of charector for him because he is a decent, kind, empathic and sensitive man. He was too hurt to be emotionally available. Just as l was and still am to an extent. By default l had past aspects of the disorder onto him and he is such a dear man and did not deserve that.

HPD spreads like a cancer from parent to child, from wife to husband, from ex husband to partners, etc etc.

Through reading all of the accounts of ex partners of HPDs l can see how damaging this disordered behaviour is. l really had not comprehended that before. l had so many shallow relationships that were far too shallow anyway for much emotional damage to take place but in the case of my marriages and longer term relationships l have to admit guilt. One ex is now an alcoholic and has never had another relationship after me. Maybe he would have developed alcoholism anyway as he always did like a drink but the fact that he has not had another relationship means that he must be stuck in the past. This is the first time that l have made a connection with that and my past behaviour. l really was awful to him as l would scream and shout and openly cheat because he did not seem to pay me enough attention. l was told by his family that l broke his heart and know now that l should have ended the relationship in a much kinder way. The thing is, l know that this was so terribly terribly wrong of me and that l would do my best not to act in that way now but at the time l could only see things from my own point of view. l did miss him after l split with him but only because l was lonely and wanted someone to pay me attention and not because l really felt deeply for him. That was many years ago and l wish l felt more contrite about this but l feel quite numb about it really. With my present husband l really do want to re write history but it can be so terribly difficult.

l have got a long way to go in therapy until l feel normal human emotions which must be in there somewhere inside me. l want to be able to cry for others and mean it instead of just crying for myself. Reading the posts on this board helps because it is making me aware of the damage l have caused in the past and the effect it can have on other people.

This is very interesting, I wouldn't say I was left completely unavailable emotionally but there are times where I don't think Im ready to move on to another relationship. See, it's not so much that I want that particular person back. What happens is I continue to ask myself this question ; WTF happen to me!?!? Perfect example of what I actually went through today, I'm at school (university) eating lunch and this girl who is in a class with me comes and sits down. She made it known to me a few weeks ago that she likes me and we went out on one date and talk through text every other day. Well now she wants to know if we can start going out more frequently and she mentioned that she wants something more than just a friendship to come out of this. Now, in any other post-break up case I would jump on this like fly's on poop but, post-break up with an hpd is like....how can i explain this....it's like entering bizzarro world at some weird carnival. Your emotions have been manipulated to the point where you don't know what to feel anymore, you feel like you can't trust anyone, and for me at least I feel like i've developed a complex where I think everyone has some kind of motive behind their exterior. I have started therapy and was diagnosed with PTSD resulting from my break up, my therapist seems to think these are my natural defense mechanisms at work, basically my mind is acting like a shield protecting me from what it thinks is bad for me... the problem is that it's working OVERTIME and i am not able to tell the difference, resulting in me "pulling away" and being "disconnected" from others at this moment. The one thing I can say is, for me at least... I don't want to get involved with someone while I am going through this because that just isn't fair to them. If I do that then I am no better than the person who did this to me. BUT, there is a flip side to this coin. I refuse to let this linger in my life longer than it has to, I am taking the necessary steps in order to "fix" myself so I can move on in a healthy manner. You are absolutely right when you used the term "epic-love" because hpd's are master manipulators, they prey on every weakness you have and build you the dream life you have always wanted BUT, once they have sucked you dry and you have nothing left... they're gone and you are the one left picking up the pieces. I will never let myself pull this baggage into a future relationship, it takes time and a lot of support from family and friends. I hope this gave you some good insight into the mind of an hpd's ex.

Best wishes

Masquerade,

I loved your post in this thread. It was an eye re-opener.

Prior, I've said I could not find any studies where PD was transmitted from one adult to the next through long term exposure. Plus I've seen multiple clinicians state that PDs are not transmitted between adults. However, I did see a self confessed psychotic (who was otherwise way off the charts smart) comment that exposure to people who are psychotic or have PDs sooner or later rubs off on other people.

When you see that some Nons have multiple hundreds of posts here, over years of time, you know that some really have had a very tough time in the aftermath of an intense relationship with an HPD. We do know many suffer PTSD big time.

Perhaps some Nons DO start showing some HPD traits after they have been exposed to it so intensely after a while?

Here would be my research questions:

• Two Non's marry and live together for several years, have kids. Divorce. Dad remarries, this time to a diagnosed HPD. Children of prior marriage (no genetic predisposition) are age 5-12+ at remarriage, do any of the kids subsequently develop HPD? Hypothesis: no
• Marriage of HPD and Non and they have kids. This ends in divorce and physical separation. Measure Non's symptoms over time, from divorce each year out. Also measure kids symptoms. (kids had genetic predisposition) Hypothesis Non recovers over time but kids, having been exposed in the first 5-10 years of life to the HPD, develop symptoms.
• HPD in a family seeks high quality therapy. Year in year out study of Non and kids.
• Anyone has an intense relationship with a HPD, breaks up. Study the Non's PTSD and recovery. In particular how do the Non's fair in major medical, vs. "normal" people who have had no "close in" life with a HPD. Hypothesis: Non goes to the hospital for major medical much more often, heart, cancer, alcoholic, drug abuse, etc.

theatrium, thanks for launch the thread. I originally thought - wow, all prior intense relationship failures (not involving any HPD at all) leave both parties emotionally unavailable for a time. However I'm coming around to your and masquerade's thinking here, throw a HPD in there and the situation may be different.

If there was demonstrated linkages of "yet more damage" beyond the HPD person themselves, the value of each cure would go up by the estimated collateral damages that might be avoided. Given all the popular books on "recovering from toxic (PD) relationships" I'd speculate the collateral damage is indeed substantial.

I think I'll come out of the woods for this thread; I haven't posted since June, but I do look in every couple of months. Yes, my experience with an HP left me emotionally unavailable. Totally unavailable. I struggled with an HP for nine years until 11/09, the last three years were pure hell with all the destructive tendencies you've read about. Through seven breakups though, she never devalued me until the last six months before the final breakup, and the last six months and devaluing process left an emotional scar that affects me yet today.

After the breakup, I quickly realized 1) my dependency issues that drove me back time and again, 2) my own issue of trying to fix her issues ,and 3) an inability to enforce acceptable boundaries (read:inability to walk away). I'd never had those issues with another woman, but I was going through a divorce when I met her and I wasn't a healthy person.

Today, I'm single and unattached, but healthy and happy and in no way have ever missed her; my life is free of the drama, crisis' and deceit that often overwhelmed me. I've not worried for a minute that she's living a wonderful happy life with the next guy because all the guys' before me had suffered the same miserable existence with her and the two since me are now twisted emotional wrecks. My ex-HP bundled ALL of the destructive traits you read about on here. For all you guests reading this message board and struggling, run, PLEASE RUN FAST NOW, because you can't fix them and you're in for a lot of heartache for as long as your relationship lasts. It will wreck your life, emotions and family.

But there's something about the "devaluing" process that's had a longer lasting effect, to the point that I have ZERO interest in another relationship, even no interest in sex. A non struggling with a flaming HP often doesn't recognize the devaluing process for what it is; a slow burn by a sick person preparing to leave you. I love women, intimate conversations and dancing with them and I know a lot of women that I meet out and dance all night with, go out to eat with but I think subconsciously, I've picked women who are emotionally unavailable too. I almost dread now a future relationship for fear I'll bolt and run at the slighest hint of, even constructive, criticism. And the really sad thing is, a true HP is a statistical anomoly, they're rare and the liklehood of running into another one is very unklikely.

Best wishes to all you!

Replace "she" with "he" and Jay Mack summed up my story, even down to the duration of the relationship.

I am completely emotionally unavailable. My relationship immediately previous to my ex husband, lasted 5yrs. We realized we weren't right for each other, broke up and are friends now. Not minimizing other things that come with HPD/NPD, but, to me, it's the devaluing that cuts to the bone. It damages your spirit.

Jay Mack wrote:I almost dread now a future relationship for fear I'll bolt and run at the slighest hint of, even constructive, criticism. And the really sad thing is, a true HP is a statistical anomoly, they're rare and the liklehood of running into another one is very unklikely.

I received so much at home behind closed doors, I was SO defensive at ANY criticism from anyone outside of my marriage even on trivial things.

Unfortunately now, I catch myself striving for physical perfection(but what is that?), to "compensate" for the damage I may present to others emotionally. At this point, anything other than positive input from a perspective suiter will likely result in my immediate departure.

As far as his happiness? I don't know if he knows what that is. I believe he is truly empty inside and I have nothing left to try to fill it. I am able to see that now.

Good news is, I'm happy(no constant drama or crisis), no baseline stress level(eggshell walking), regaining my confidence (even without perfection), making new friends (I wasn't allowed to have those) and moving on with my life. While they still are unable to truly grasp my experience, I have a tremendous family and a few true friends supporting me along the way.

Jay Mack wrote: For all you guests reading this message board and struggling, run, PLEASE RUN FAST NOW, because you can't fix them and you're in for a lot of heartache for as long as your relationship lasts. It will wreck your life, emotions and family.

This bothers me. A lot. Not all HPDs will remain unaware forever and to tell someone to run really, really upsets me. What if you're suppose to be the one? The one to help and bring this all together for them? That they can't leave? Should we throw everyone with a disorder away? I'm not perfect but let those without sin cast the first stone.

Oh I'm sorry. You have a disorder. Please go to the end of the humanity line to count.

Jay Mack wrote:Best wishes to all you!

Apparently not all of us.

SanStars...

Who is this 'one' you speak about?

No offense, but maybe you need to quit waiting around for someone to 'fix' your issues, and start working towards taking care of them yourself. This sense of entitlement/expectancy for others to fix you is a fallacy that'll just prolong [the issue]. All you do is give your own power away with such talk.

Dumping someone w/ a personality disorder sounds pretty cruel. Had my ex shown a genuine interest in sorting herself out, I might have stuck around. But the reality is that I was under no personal obligation to put up w/ that kind of behavior, no more than you or anyone else should be expected to 'fix' whatever issues I have. Every adult in this world was a kid once, we all grew up w/ dreams and we all dealt/deal w/ adversity in one way or another - it's not like personal problems requiring introspection and action are unique to HPDs. Not at all.

I'm ADHD. I hate labels, but one day realized I couldn't duck reality anymore. At first I figured: "hey, it makes life interesting" which was a convenient way of otherwise enabling myself. But in time, the consequences finally became such a pain in my ass that I had to face it: I had a weakness, and it was high time I started working on it. It's not your fault you are HPD, it's not my fault I'm ADHD...just the way things are. But what we do w/ that knowledge is what counts. If you sit on your ass and idealize some future situation where someone will 'save' you, I think you are being unfair to yourself and the other person. We are all capable of being pretty manipulative in life if we choose, and we can surround ourselves w/ people who will enable our own bs if we choose, but ultimately, we still go to bed with ourselves. There is some quote out there tantamount to "where ever you go, you take yourself" - what I'm trying to convey is something along those lines...

As to the original post: I count myself fortunate for not remaining in one of these relationships for longer than a year. I experienced the attempts at devaluation etc - not pleasant, but no way am I going to let one person dictate the rest of my life and the way I trust others. I loved my ex, no doubt about it, but when it comes down to it, I'm not looking for an amusement park in a woman, I'm looking for someone stable, feminine, and caring - someone to share life w/ and grow old beside. That's the type of woman I'll get on a knee for one day. Everything else just constitutes experience.

Rhodes wrote:SanStars...

No offense, but maybe you need to quit waiting around for someone to 'fix' your issues, and start working towards taking care of them yourself. This sense of entitlement/expectancy for others to fix you is a fallacy that'll just prolong [the issue]. All you do is give your own power away with such talk.

If you sit on your ass and idealize some future situation where someone will 'save' you, I think you are being unfair to yourself and the other person.

Awwww, Rhodes. Did you always know everything or did you just learn it all? That would be sooo cool to know everything!

You're right, here I am waiting for someone to rescue me. Oh whoa is me. I'm such a weak, fragile girl and my bottom is ever so tired from sitting on it. Where is that damn knight in shining armor? I couldn't possibly do it all by myself..... Oh wait! I did.

My husband has no f'n clue, yet I'm in THERAPY on my own. He's my one. The one to fight to keep- except that he's not going anywhere and yet I'm still flighting. I didn't ever expect him to fix me out of entitlement. What I expect is that when you love someone you do things for them and not just throw them away. Nothing is perfect and not everyone is meant to be together (even 2 nons!). So sometimes, breaking up is the answer- but that goes for ANY two people not just HPD/nons. My point was that there ARE certain people who are meant to be together and they may never know because the bitterness in this place tells everyone to run away screaming and that we're hopeless. You know what I think is hopeless? The people in this world who always run away when things get tough and are so unforgiving that they shut themselves off in the future because someone isn't perfect.

Gee Rhodes, hasn't SansStars retorts recalled the wretched memories of life with an HP?