Why does loving an HPD feel so much more like the real thing

Musician924 wrote:I think an HP makes life "seem" fun". They are a bit like cats however, you can't rely on them, they are transient. Like a cat they shall purr and nibble your nose (or whatever) on your lap on the couch the night before to ignore you like you dont exist the next day. My beloved 14 year old cat does that to me all the time. Just take the fun then leave them to it and get on with whatever you were doing before. I wish i had felt that way 4 years ago, i wasted too much time learning... I should have just sh#gged her and ran (my x, not the cat) !

No doubt, all too true my friend. But is it not the greatest of grand illusions and perhaps the allure the HPD's hold, is but to project ourselves and play the greatest game life has to offer? That is that we are able to play the grandest games with ourselves through the proxy of another. The game is only as grand as we choose to make it. An HPD can only mirror and reflect, what we choose to reveal. They say time changes all except what we choose to recall. But an hpd is our greatest memory of all.

Musician, I think the 'cat' analogy is a good one - I love cats, I love the fact you don't own them, they choose to live with you. A lifetime agreement of tolerance. I can see the HPD in cats too - the claws, the teeth, the killer instinct - oh and the pussy itself of course! Maybe all HPD's are clones of the cat on Red Dwarf? Nah - more like a cross between Rimmer and Kryton, the narcissistic incompetance that makes HPD so special - not.

Big C, you are exactly right when you say that when it's good with an HPD, everything is fun, even a trip to the supermarket is a wonderful lark. You think, "I didn't know life and love could be this much fun."
Much as I appreciate those who try to tell me it isn't really fun, it's empty, just a fake: Sorry, but fun is fun. I know it when I feel it. And I sure as hell felt it.
I also appreciate those who tell me how wonderful their relationship now is with a loving, sincere non-HPD. But having been in such loving, sincere relationships myself, I know it's not as exciting or intense. It's different and in my belief lesser kind of pleasure: like taking a long warm bath versus white-rafting down a river. You get bored in that bath pretty fast.
Yes, with an HPD the exhilaration ultimately turns out to be unsustainable too. Yes, the good times derive from the exact same HPD that causes all the other problems. I'm just saying, there's nothing like it. It's ironic that while the HPD's own attention is all over the place, she certainly focuses her target on her. I had always had a roving eye before, even when I had the most loving girlfriends, but when I was with her, no one else existed for me.
One of the great consolations of this forum is realizing how many people went through the same experience. Part of the euphoria of dating an HPD in the early, "honeymoon" period (3-6 months, right?) - and the difficulty of getting over her - comes from feeling there is no one else like her out there. When you realize this is actually a personality type, and other guys have had, in the same sequence, the same experiences, conversations, arguments, heard (almost verbatim) the same lines, it makes it so much easier to get over everything.

compton wrote:. When you realize this is actually a personality type, and other guys have had, in the same sequence, the same experiences, conversations, arguments, heard (almost verbatim) the same lines, it makes it so much easier to get over everything.

And with that the journey ends!

Having absorbed all that Janey has poured out from her soul and finally grasping the basis of an HP's behaviour, then reading Compton's remark, I realize I can indeed move on now. Janey, I have a deep admiration for you, Godspeed in your continued recovery, there'll be a special place in the corner of my heart for you for years to come.

There were some good times in my 9 years with an HP but there more hard times. Hard enough times so that I will never again risk my heart or emotions to another personality disordered person. I'm not ready yet for another relationship, but I've learned enough about the bigger world outside my own to exercise better judgement than I did 9 years ago, including recognition of my own issues. Finding this board in 2007 and reading the struggles of other participants prepared me to shed some tears, face and process the certain and eventual painful ending; and, most importantly, the strength of this board enabled me to commit to a final and complete NC now. After 7 mos, the emotional connections seem remotely distant. How refreshing to know I did have the strength afterall! For others on here struggling with NC, don't give up trying, it really does get easier as time goes on. She may creep back in your mind occassionally for fleeting moments but she'll leave as quickly, eventually.

Newtohpd (Newbie, to me), Caro, ASPHYX, Musician, TK, Normal, Bam, MyWave, C&H and many others going back 3 years; I feel like I'm thanking favorite college professors at semester end, y'all (as we say in Texas) are so well spoken and I'm profoundly appreciative of your wit, wisdom and perceptions. Goodbye's to seemingly old friends are so hard to convey, yet I wouldn't have my sanity today without your postings, responses and encouragement and I suspect you've helped many more guests that never registered and posted. So it's not really goodbye, just "farewell".

I finally feel like tomorrow is the first new day of the rest of my life, best wishes to you all in rebuilding your lives.

compton wrote:I also appreciate those who tell me how wonderful their relationship now is with a loving, sincere non-HPD. But having been in such loving, sincere relationships myself, I know it's not as exciting or intense. It's different and in my belief lesser kind of pleasure: like taking a long warm bath versus white-rafting down a river. You get bored in that bath pretty fast.

Hey Compton

You may want to dig deeper about why you seek these intense and unstable kinds of relationships. Please don't misunderstand me:- I am not suggesting it is 'wrong' to do so, just that if these kinds of experiences are causing you pain or hurt then perhaps you want to avoid them in the future (perhaps you don't - who knows!).

From a psychoanalytical point of view it could be that this type of experience reflects or mirrors one that you had in childhood with a caregiver. Subliminally we seek out relationships that we feel comfortable with because they replicate the blueprint of relationships we are given as children (hence the daughter of an alcoholic father may be predisposed to adult relationships with other alcoholics etc). We look for what we know in other words. If we have learnt that love = intensity and instability then we seek that kind of experience out. If love, for us = pain then a relationship without pain will not equate to love in our eyes. Real, authentic, deep feelings ergo do not = love. Does that make sense?

We could say the same about the 'fun' mentioned here too. I hope this doesn't sound patronising but it sounds like a very immature kind of fun, a regression to childhood almost. Again I am not suggesting that childish fun is 'bad', just that you might want to explore what fun means, to you. Of course all of us enjoy roller-coasters. We just don't want to go on one every day.

Jay Mack wrote:I finally feel like tomorrow is the first new day of the rest of my life, best wishes to you all in rebuilding your lives.

And to you Jay Mack! Your post really brightened up my day

WINMH wrote "oh and the pussy itself of course!"

Moderators please can I report this? I believe one of the rules of the site is to not post anything obscene or offensive. I find this sentance both. There may be very young people looking on this site and I don't think its appropriate. Please can you remove it and give WINMH a warning?

Thanks

Hey Normal,
I appreciate your comments. I shouldn't have implied that it's mere fun. It's more that...love with an HPD seemed to fulfill what I had always vainly hoped love could be. For at least a year before I met my HPD, I was thinking, wouldn't it be great to meet someone who just completely focuses me, enchants me, makes my heart pound faster not just in the first week, or up to the first intimacy, but for months on end.
After all, women aren't the only ones who dream of that "epic love" (to use a phrase which another poster here has used).
So in that sense I was certainly receptive to the HPD when she came along. (Which is why I agree with Sofrance that it's not always just a question of the innocent non being bamboozled: in retrospect I know I should have seen the signs from day 1.) And all I'm saying is, I don't think I'll feel that kind of epic love with a non-HPD, though I certainly hope I will. I tend to think that precisely because the non-HPD is safer, more secure, I will not be feeling the same sort of thrill for as long as I did with the HPD.

"But she didn't love you back! It was all mirrors!" I know, I know. My point is: she succeeded in making me love her very strongly. And that felt great for a few months. She did it for her own selfish ends, sure. But I can't be very angry with her, despite all the lies and the financial exploitation. I would no doubt feel differently had I been dumb enough to marry her as she wanted. I just want her to leave me alone, stay far away.

In any case, Normal, you can rest assured that I am very critical of how I let myself get involved with her. And will not be making that mistake again!

You may want to dig deeper about why you seek these intense and unstable kinds of relationships. Please don't misunderstand me:- I am not suggesting it is 'wrong' to do so, just that if these kinds of experiences are causing you pain or hurt then perhaps you want to avoid them in the future

For at least a year before I met my HPD, I was thinking, wouldn't it be great to meet someone who just completely focuses me, enchants me, makes my heart pound faster not just in the first week, or up to the first intimacy, but for months on end.

Normal, compton -

I have a theory which I would like to put forward to you all. As I read your posts I feel this:

It seems to me that its not just about trying to repeat your childhood template when it comes to men/women hurt by HPDs (or even BPDs). It seems that the HPD arouses in you what you have never felt before - a great love for yourself. It probably arouses the hidden narcissism in you that you seem to have repressed for a long time. And then to have the beautiful doll walking besides you just enhances this narcissism, as does the sex you get to have at home which makes you feel like a king.

Responsible, modest men who can't have fun by themselves, but who have hidden passions, and who have been stuck between leading their responsible lives while still wanting to escape it, would probably be the prime target for falling for this. The same would hold for responsible women too.

So for a while, during the honeymoon phase, you might be feeling on top of the world, even putting up a fake persona and behaving a little arrogantly, almost like a compensatory narcissist, loving yourself though you don't know how to do it and therefore overdoing it. So much so, that you neglect all the red flags and are almost in the process of losing your head, until your HPD feels you have become a selfish jerk for not paying her attention and triggering her fears and pulls the rug from under your feet.

Now then, having your hidden narcissism brought out was a great feeling, a fantasy world and you want to go back to it, which is why its so difficult for all of you to give it up, much like a real narcissist is unable to give up his false self.

Normal - I am sure that, in theory, something must have gone wrong in the development from child (primary narcissism) to an adult for such men and women. My guess is that their primary narcissism was repressed before that phase was complete and they had to become responsible at an earlier age. Does that seem logical from your references?

Everyone, this is just a theory I am suggesting based on my P/N brain thinking, and I have no real references to provide. No intention to hurt anyone. Just my theory after reading you guys.


Sofrance, WINMH - Ok, I am a psychopath and my brain works in the wrong places all the time. I see and smell something fishy between you two. Sofrance seems to be particular in her attack at WINMH and WINMH seems to somehow be able to incite her, even with the most normal looking posts. So what's going on? You guys know each other in the real world?

(Chucky - something is not right here, mate. I can smell it. Remember, how in our beloved AsPD forum, people manipulate their identities to prove their points. Something like this is happening here )

Hey Compton

compton wrote:wouldn't it be great to meet someone who just completely focuses me, enchants me, makes my heart pound faster not just in the first week, or up to the first intimacy, but for months on end.

Yes - I can see your point totally and I hear what you are saying. What I am suggesting is that you reframe your ideas about what 'epic love' might be. Your description here of a person who makes your heart pound faster is how you define love. But your heart pounding faster could just as easily be a cardiac arrest! Someone who focuses completely on you could also just as easily be a clingy stalker with no life of their own. It could be useful to you to consider what your own blue-print of love is - because that blueprint may well be incompatible with who you are - or with your own happiness?

Let me try to explain by way of a story about myself and how I have reframed things a little? The story is about friendship I suppose. I have a friend who is very dear to me that I think the world of - we have been friends for many years and this person has never, ever let me down. She is very stable and very honest and decent. However until relatively recently I found my friend dull. I preferred to spend time with people who were, for want of a better word, wilder. Less predictable. Less inhibited. Less stable. My time with these friends was often chaotic and a little frenzied. You never quite knew how the night would turn out, where you might wake up or whether you would still have your own shoes! And I found this highly preferrable to the quieter, more sedate times that I spent with my 'dull' friend.

Over recent years though I have learnt a few things. My 'dull' friend is the best defense mechanism I will ever have against depression. She loves me for who I am and when I have needed her she has been there with unstinting support for me and never-ending patience. When I have been sad she has listened to me. My other friends were more interested in taking me 'out of myself' - in fact they were more interested in themselves. They listened:- but with half an ear. They were 'there' for me - but only when there wasn't something more exciting to do. I don't blame them at all for that and I still enjoy socialising with them very much. But for me, my 'dull' friend has shown me what friendship really is.

As a result my definition of friendship has changed radically. I recognise friendship using a different set of criteria. And I value the quiet love of my 'dull' friend above all others. She isn't dull to me any more, not at all.

Another story. When I was a teenager I read 'Wuthering Heights' and there began a passion with Heathcliff. To my mind he was the perfect man: loyal, passionate, driven. I've just re-read the novel recently and Heathcliff is a ruthless, remorseless, aggressive swine. He doesn't signify love for me anymore, not because the novel has changed but because my criteria has. Does that make sense?

searchfortruth wrote:

(Chucky - something is not right here, mate. I can smell it. Remember, how in our beloved AsPD forum, people manipulate their identities to prove their points. Something like this is happening here )

Hi searchfortruth.
I hope you are wrong. Some things do however seem strange. Thanks for the flag, Musician