Are there mild cases; If so, does treatment work?

This is my first post- I started dating a girl 10 months ago, I broke it off 2 week ago after I had confirmed her cheating on me with an old bf. She hadn't ever stopped seeing him. I am not sure what his issues are, but he seems fine with having her date other guys and he gets a piece here and there. I had a gut feeling after the first month that something was not right withe their relationship. She had said that they were just friends. As the lies started to unravel, I had found out she was seeing him the entire time that we were together, and in the relationship previous to me she was seeing him. After all the lies, I was confused how anyone can live such a lie filled existence and started doing research which lead me to HPD and then to this site. Upon researching HPD, she exhibited all of the characteristics: she is very beautiful, she always dresses in stylish, classy clothing; not overtly sexually, but sexy in that she dresses well. Always really high heeled F$%^ me shoes. She throws parties all the time and is the consummate hostess, always inviting these new stray dog guys she randomly meets at coffee shops or where ever. The guys are inconsequential since they were always somewhat nerdy and not super attractive by societal standards. But I guess she was keeping her fan base full. I am not sure whether she was sleeping with all of these people or not, I never had any gut feelings about that, only the ex bf. She was flirtatious at parties also.

I did call her out on all of her crap, caught her red handed, although she stacked lie upon lie until she knew she had to admit the truth. She says she is sorry though I feel that she shows no remorse for what she did, more that she got caught. A month before all of this went down, she did start seeing a counselor, but more of a new age, tarot, state licensed counselor, not a PhD licensed therapist. She knew something is wrong, she say she wants to help herself. She hasn't ever exhibited any of the anger or tantrums that I have read about on this site. She seems more to repress any type of uncomfortable conversation or situation- or tries to deflect it.

Since I caught her and broke it off- she has had to face the music. Her parents really liked me and I spent a lot of time with them and told them the truth of what happened so that she couldn't spin it to them. every friend that we mutually knew when asking how we are, I tell them exactly what happened. I know this is one of her biggest fears is to have to face all of this, but she has to admit now that she messed things up. She tells me that she knows she messed up a good thing and a thing that she has wanted. She also says that she wants to get real help, but so far I don't see any real effort. She texts me a lot and I ignore most of them. She wants to come over and talk and i have let her on 2 occasions. It seems to go around in circles. When we do talk I point out her behavior and try not to let her steer the conversation into something trivial or let her start getting physical. I just try to reinforce that she needs to seek qualified help for her disorder. She has been starting to admit that this has been a pattern for a very long time.

I have seen all of her facades, how she acts when other people are around, how she puts on a show. But there were a lot of times when we spent long weekends together where it was just us, that I saw a different person without all the masks. Like she had let a guard down. Just to fill you in her ex is about a 3/4 where as I am a 8. I am certain she keeps him around because he would lick the bottom of her shoes if she asked, I will not. I am however very affectionate, caring, pretty successful, and make my gf's feel very loved.

Is it possible that there are milder forms? She keeps telling me that she wants to work on herself so that we can have another shot. It has only been a few weeks since I dumped her and I am very skeptical. She says she wants to work on herself so that she can understand why she does what she does and fix it so we can be have another shot. Is it possible that a mild case HPD person (if there are mild cases) can realize that they just lost what they have been looking for and have remorse; or is it just losing something and trying to get it back for the sake of the conquest. Is it possible to patch the holes in their bucket so that it leaks very slowly so that with maintenance it can remain full? I care for her- not sure if I love her since our entire relationship was built on lies, but she seems somewhat earnest in wanting to get help. She had mentioned she is tired of living her life like this and being unhappy. Is this more placating to try to rope me back in? I know that she hasn't cut off contact from the ex bf. In fact he thinks that he is back in the drivers seat. My skepticism tells me that until she fully ropes me back in, she will keep him there for the attention. If I don't fall in line, then she will replace me. I would like to see her get help if she really wants to- or should I just completely remove myself?

Help please-

I think you're right to feel skeptical about this. I would be too if I was in your position and having gone through all that you and she have. I don't know if there are mild forms of HPD (or severe ones at that matter). If she has certain symptoms of it, then she just has to work with those ones in particular. This isn't really about getting a diagnosis. It's about her recognising her error-prone ways and then dealing with them. HPD or not, she has to change.

I'd wait a bit longer to be sure of her intentions. Even then, you can't be sure. What I think you can be sure of is that you are now more wise than you were before you met her. So, even if she's #######4 you, I think you'll pick-up on it rapidly if a new relationship begins between you both. You should be demanding that she gets help though - I mean, really demanding. Saying something and actually doing it are very different, and too many people say they'll get help but never do. i'm thinking that she has little intention of trying hard to change.

You seem intelligent and authoritative. Do you really need to be messing around with a person like her? I think you shoud ask yorself this too. You can stick around to try to help her, of course, but there are probably much better people out there for a guy like you.

Kevin

My advice to you ben is: if you don't love her then stay gone and consider yourself fortunate, you'll be avoiding a lot of heartache. I don't know if there are "mild cases" or not, but step back and consider what you've tolerated and ask yourself if it's fair and reasonable, would you tolerated it long term? She had sex outside of your relationship, is that OK with you? Mine visited three therapists' over five years and while her dysfunctions abated for a short time, they eventually came back full force. She's still doing the destructive things at 46 that she did at 21.

I think there are mild and severe cases but i am not sure that will help you. I came to this forum because i had lived with a severely hpd woman and had suffered quite a traumatic episode with her. now i work with a different (diagnosed "mild hpd") one, and whilst some of her games make me angry, she is much more tolerable.

- workwise, she actually does something useful ca. 30% of the time
- when she doesn't get the attention she craves, she gets withdrawn and unhappy, while the other one would attack people and create a scene
- she is financially comparably independent and responsible, while the other one would bug money off everyone and squander it for luxury goods in an instance
- she does strain her friends, but not as much as the other
- she actually shows some insight into the fact that people do bad things and then deny them to themselves and others and that that may also hold for her (one of her many therapists seems to have done something right...)

so, working with her is actually alright, she is distractive but she can be very funny at times. BUT: mild here means that she is tolerable from a safe distance. I WOULD NEVER WANT TO BE HER BOYFRIEND. the boyfriend is this very loving sweet guy - and i came to know that she cheated on him several times in the most outrageous ways. for one of these incidents, i happened to talk to all the participants (really, i didn't want to...), and there were 5 people, five different truths. same old hpd story as you can read it over and over in this forum. in a romantic context, "parallel worlds" open up easier than in any other context, because it's just you and that person. so the hpd jumps on that train and go with the flow, possibly suppressing the awareness that he or she is in a (happy) relationship. successful therapy here probably means doing that not so much anymore rather than doing it not at all. Are you happy to accept that?

Also: you have to correct for the "smoothing over" factor: if she has a mild form, she would appear normal. if she has a medium expression, she would appear mild. if it is severe, it appears medium. only over time you will realise how far it goes. when my colleague mentioned to me that she may have hpd i didn't even believe her - only 7-10 attempts to "save her" or "help her" later it dawned on me that it's true...

May I offer a slightly more direct opinion here. In my opinion
1 bringing relative strangers into the house for parties,
2 praying on societies less "adept" people,
3 creating a base of attention,
4 sleeping with other person/s, *
5 lying in the face of evidence and fact put before them,
6 no remorse for their actions only for how it affects them directly
7 only offering to change when their main attention giver is under threat

*For every 1 you find out about there is usually 2+ more

These are all signs of a person that is more than mild HPD!

You have made yourself a HPD "target" for your caring ways, of which there is nothing wrong in, its is a positive character trait in normal life and is what makes you a great person. But to a HPD these are the traits of someone they can use and abuse over time they can make you very dependent on them to the point that your own life will suffer. To me its sounds like her ex BF is very dependent on her and is probably more unhappy than you have ever been for a long time. And yu will follow in his footsteps when the next bigger better more handsome victim comes along you will be gone in a flash, My advice like so many other people will say is .....RUN!!!! Run as fast as you can! as far as you can! as soon as you can!

To me its sounds like you are at the beginning of this relationship and this is the first major warning sign that so many of us saw and never took heed. You have a fantastic opportunity to dodge a bullet here that many of us wish we had took many years ago. I know in your heart you probably feel responsible for her and her well being, and nonetheless you may feel like you would be hurting her parents aswell. But this is how they make you feel its part of their defense system to make you feel responsible and or guilty for them. but my friend remember these simple quotes from me

She is NOT your responsibility anymore you are now FREE
By walking away you are doing the right thing for YOU.
There will be time when all you want do is go back resist these feelings AT ALL COSTS
It easier to cut all contact with a HPD as they will create situations to drag you in, Via phone E=mail, text, friends, facebook
If you feel so bad after only 10 months imagine how bad you will feel after 10 years read some peoples posts on here they havent got over it many years later
And above all ..............

GOOD LUCK

PS this is just my personal opinion after 5-6 years of living with a HPD partner. Please let us know how you have gone on even if by personal message.

I want to thank all of you for your words of wisdom- I have sourced out several psychologists for her and told her to seek the help she say she wants or continue her pattern of behavior. It is her choice. I told her that we are not to talk anymore.

I appreciate all of your input and hope that she doesn't keep seeking me out.

Hi benliedto:
You sound calm, emotionally strong, and able to set boundaries. I think that your X may see this as elusive, attractive, and that can only make her want her to chase you more! What ever happens, you need to maintain this strength of self, it must never crack. Myself I "have to hope" that there is hope with this condition, it is such a shame if there is not. However, don't ever be another one of her Patsy's. You call the shots, and you may just make it.

Good luck, Musician.

Benlindetoo,

Hang in there man. You are in an exceptionally difficult area.

>I am certain she keeps him around because he would lick the bottom of her shoes if she asked, I will not.

Sounds like a question of clear limits and "the contract" of what happens when your limits are breached. My guess is many, many people on this board can help you (and only you) locate exactly where you want to "draw the line" and how much you will allow before heading for the exit, never to look back. For a thought starter here take a look at TatteredKnight's reference to tests and how to pass them at: http://www.psychforums.com/histrionic-personality/topic50221.html

>I am however very affectionate, caring, pretty successful, and make my gf's feel very loved.

Depending on how motivated your HPD is, and exactly how "mild" her situation is (doesn't offhand strike me as totally mild) there is quite a bit out there on actually how to treat it.

As I understand it, one of the areas you can measure how serious it is with her, is to evaluate specifically and separately any and all anti social personality disorder facets. If you have too many of those, too often, or too serious, the prognosis as I understand it, even to full bore intense treatment, is pretty grim. On the other hand if the ASP facets are mild, given a clear opportunity (she is willing to work at it) time, effort and perseverance some success is very possible. Take a look at the above link for a few ideas on specific treatments.

Keep your self sane by knowing the real "odds" at all times. Never gamble your own sanity against HPD.

Okay, I am very confused now after reading through all this stuff. I've had testing with some psychologists, and it's been said by them that I have tendencies toward HPD and some toward BPD. I have a B.A. in Theatre (and, by the way, all my actor friends were exactly like I am) and love being on stage, so obviously I crave being the center of attention. And reading through the symptoms, I see myself in a lot of them. However, I have been reading through posts on this forum, and I can honestly say this:

1) I am flirtatious, but I have never cheated on any boyfriend I have ever had. Also, I NEVER leave the guy; the guy always leaves me. And I mourn the loss for years; I don't move on quickly to someone else.

2) I don't lie or steal. Everybody in my life calls me one of the most honest people they have ever met.

3) I feel empathy and I definitely don't want to hurt people.

4) I have been in therapy/treatment for almost twenty years.

Do I have this condition or not???? I am so confused now.
I really don't date anymore at all (not for about a year now), and I am working on myself.
NeurHope

neurhope wrote:1) I am flirtatious, but I have never cheated on any boyfriend I have ever had. Also, I NEVER leave the guy; the guy always leaves me. And I mourn the loss for years; I don't move on quickly to someone else.

From all I've read, this doesn't alone make you HPD per se. However, the fact that you don't leave the guy doesn't mean you aren't HPD - a lot of the time, the HPD is the one getting broken up with: HPD's fear people leaving them - they instigate break ups when they've had enough or something better comes along. If the break up occurs before that point, generally it's the non-HPD breaking away. I will say this though: unless your partner is comfortable w/ you flirting and you are comfortable w/ him flirting (if that happens) I would be wary of it. Flirting is actually very selfish behavior that often stems from insecurity/need for validation. Although I went through hell w/ my HPD's flirtatious behavior w/ other men, I never struck back, and to be vain, I had far more opportunities and ability to flirt w/ other women had I wanted than she, but I know what I'm worth, and I don't need women panting after me to find security, nor do I want to lead people on. I've always considered flirting to be tantamount to playing in danger zones - it only fosters insecurity in a relationship, and insecurity tends to what winds up killing relationships. I encourage you to really think about the flirting and why you do it - then figure out if it's worth more than a stable relationship.

2) I don't lie or steal. Everybody in my life calls me one of the most honest people they have ever met.

Honesty is a good thing. But only you really know if you are an honest person when it counts. The HPD I dated rarely if ever lied - but this is b/c I was very good at vetting the truth, which she knew; however, deception was another matter entirely. Having to be forced w/ cornering a person to get the truth doesn't make the person telling it an honest person. I'm probably projecting my experience too much though.

3) I feel empathy and I definitely don't want to hurt people.

The HPD I dated lacked empathy in a very, very noticeable way. She was empathetic to her own hurts, but not others. If you genuinely feel for other people's pain, I'd say this is a step away from being HPD, but I'm no expert.

Do I have this condition or not???? I am so confused now.
I really don't date anymore at all (not for about a year now), and I am working on myself.
NeurHope