"Other people found me ok"

Raz wrote:Did your partners with HPD traits ever say to you that other people in the past had found them (and their ways of dealing with crisis) ok and that you were just over-sensitive in complaining?

Yes, that's a common way of strengthening your claims. It's an example of 'social proof', and is based on the fact that how right you sound depends in part with how many people agree with you. It may also be considered an 'appeal to authority' if the people she's referencing are authority figures for her (parents, older relatives, bosses etc.) If they claim a bunch of people are on their side, especially people that you respect, it makes you feel outnumbered and pushes you to give up your position.

Yet, she says i am just a wimp who cant handle people showing emotion, a tyrant who wont let people show emotion around me. And that all the shrinks are tyrants and wimps like me. She says that lots of people in her past have been fine with her rages and were "compatiable" with her, though i never hear of any of these people.

Blame the victim... brilliant! If she can change the problem from "She rages and abuses you" to "<imaginary people> think she's fine, so you're the one who's got a problem, it's your fault because you're oversensitive", you spend all your time defending yourself and get sidetracked from the real message. You start to doubt yourself. You wonder if it really IS you that's the problem. Been there, done that. I've been told that I'm too thin skinned, that I shouldn't be hurt if she says insulting or belittling things. It took me way too long to turn around and say "No, YOU are in the wrong. If you love me, stop treating me in a hurtful manner."

WINMH wrote:Sofrance 1

Hi, I'm new here, although have been reading a while.

I've been reading your posts with interest as they were all chillingly like my X would write - 'cold' and 'superior'. Infact, I was getting 'flashbacks'. You now 'seem' to have some empathy?? What happened?

Maybe sofrance doesn't have HPD? maybe it's just strong histrionic and narcissistic traits? I'm curious too.

In all honesty the first time I read this forum, the first thread that I read was "not sure what to do for the best". People on here often talk about how they find HPD posters "chilling". "Chilling" is the only way I can describe what I thought about that thread and my first thoughts of this forum.

It seems to me that the person who posted that (and by his own admission) was stalking someone and using HPD as an excuse to do this. I do believe that this forum exacerbated that person's stalking and you can see that from the progression of bitterness and anger as other people validate his anger. I do honestly believe that this forum made his stalking behaviour much worse and it made me very angry that he posted extremely personal emails on here, admitted that he was stalking someone and obsessed and yet people on this forum continued to post back to him and not until right at the end when he actually brought in the other person does someone else step in and stand up to him. I think all who replied to him offering advice have got something to answer for. Perhaps it is a common trait in those "nons" who post on here that they daren't stand up to people. When the poster actually brought in his victim and made her aware of the posts and she replied, she got slated! Which of these "caring" experts on HPD came in and stuck up for her as he continued his harassment and bullying on this forum? None. You cowards. You would prefer to say nothing and maintain your squeaky clean martyr image. Pehaps YOU should think about the consequences of YOUR actions.

Whilst I am sure being an HPD "victim" is awful being a victim of stalking is equally if not worse. An HPD "victim" can walk away at any time. A victim of stalking never gets away. I will no doubt be accused of being an "HPD drama queen", which I can be, however I have been stalked which ended up in a police case and believe me there really is nothing more frightening. And no, I did not do all the things that I will no doubt be accused of doing. I was advised by the police to not contact him no matter how many emails/texts/phone calls I received which I stuck to religiously even though he persecuted my friends and family to get to me.

People talk on this forum a lot about personal responsibility. I believe that it was very clear from that thread that this man had very serious mental health issues and was stalking and harassing someone who had jilted him. I think everyone who posted back to him needs to take some personal responsibility for making that stalking worse. Stop being so overly "nice" and "understanding" when some people clearly do not deserve that. I really do detect the smell of burning martyr.

I suppose that that initial impression clouded my judgement towards this forum. I do get intensely irritated about people who come on here and say "my girlfriend is cheating so I have diagnosed her with HPD", "my girlfriend is so horrible, she must have HPD", "my girlfriend does/doesn't spend time on facebook, she must be HPD", "did you seem that film with that psychopath? she must be HPD". "can you see that cloud being nasty to the other cloud? that cloud must have HPD...."

I do also believe that some people do wallow in self-pity. I am sure some of the break-ups were hard but at the end of the day, they were only that. Break-ups. Yes, its painful but millions of peple go through it every day, and no, really you don't have PTSD. Talk about dramatising a situation.... (that's irony btw) I also believe that the feeling of this forum seems to be slightly losing its "mob mentality" of vilifying people with HPD. Perhaps that is because some people with HPD are actually posting on here..

So, to finally answer your question, I am described as "cold and superior" quite often, thats just the way I am. I do not have empathy. I do not understand why any of the "victims" would give a second thought to a past relationship or stay with someone who treats them badly (perhaps this is another reason why some posters on here irritate me). However I am also a reasonable and intelligent human being. If someone posts a sensible question on here, I can respond in a sensible way. As long as it doesn't say "my girrlfriend has cheated and doesn't want me anymore so I have diagnosed her with HPD and she's such a monster and I am such a poor little victim but I keep going back for more then posting on this forum about how awful she is."

sofrance........


We're not "cowards".............. but if we are not respectful we get banned.

So many of us TRY to be nice.........even when we're talking to people with no manners at all.

But is it worth it?............probably not, that's why many ":normals" get the answers they are looking for

and leave this place..........AND YES I'M CLOSE TO LEAVING MYSELF..........

I'M TIRED OF THE IN-FIGHTING TOO.........PEOPLE COME HERE FOR UNDERSTANDING AND HEALING

WELL SOME DO.........AND THEY ARE RIPPED APART.......... HPD'S AND NORMALS......

This web-site cycles............. for a while it was PD's giving us hell every day.............

And I remember a time with some "normals" were saying too much about PD's .........

But for the most part I see the normals and a FEW Pd's sharing thoughts and learning from each other

with dignity...........

Now this poster that was stalking , when was that.........I want to go back and cheak all that out.

And P.S....... jilted is no big deal............but most "victims" were subjetct to much worse.........

Heck.........I'm GLAD me and my HPD/NPD are not together............yes VERY GLAD............

I just came here to understand how someone could be so cold and cruel..........

And now I know.............. she was just STUPID.............not mentally.............


but emotionally....she was STUPID...........so I'm at peace now....

now I just come here to try to help others, on BOTH sides......when I can.........

It's by HPDhelp. Please do look it up.

I have just looked back on the post myself. How interesting your first response is to HPDhelp. I don't think I need to say anything else on that really. Your post actually disgusts me.

Hi SoFrance:
Your lack of emapthy and cold superiority comes across in your posts, and your approach to many of the said "nons" posts on this forum. Your self-belieivng superiority would seem to be bolstered by your status as a medical student Psycohoanlyst, what i would describe as a self belief that you know better. Well you don't necessarily, and what do you know about the professions of those that use this forum? Nothing! What also do you know about what it is like being on the receiving end of a relationship where one person would seem to have hysterical personality. NOTHING! You describe about yourself the very characteristics that you know hurts others, yet you rant and rave about them not walking away and coming here to try to help themselves! SoFrance many of us did walk away, NEVER FORGET THAT, but it does not make it any easier, and its just that it took time to get enough truth in hand to be able to reconciliate head and heart and do so. Whom in their right mind would easily walk away from the man or whom they believed a few weeks or months earlier to be the man or woman of there life? NO ONE WITH EMPATHY AND KNOWING WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO "FEEL", KNOWING WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO "MISS"! . And do you know what? Despite how much it hurt, and how much it still hurts, i would not exchange that ability to "FEEL" like I do and be in your place .

Coming back on the case concerning HPDhelp. I fully agree with you that it was the most stupid an most horrible thing to do. What was he thinking of using a website to stalk, or in fact stalking at all which is something I totally dis-respect. However, I think that if you go back through the posts you shall see that we were several to warn him off once we realised what he was apparently up to. Its the difficulty of the forum, and perhaps an inate quality that you have that many of us do not, to instinctively realise the intentions of others without a clean admittance of them. That is particularly hard i find when one can't see the persons face and eyes. I couldn't see his and i can't see yours. The limits of a forum! The young ladies explanation was dignified, and my own opinion is that the silence of most members here was acknowledgment that HPDhelp was completely out of order and probably was the one to require help. He didn't get far after that.

Best regards,
Musician

sofrance1 wrote:It seems to me that the person who posted that (and by his own admission) was stalking someone and using HPD as an excuse to do this. I do believe that this forum exacerbated that person's stalking and you can see that from the progression of bitterness and anger as other people validate his anger. I do honestly believe that this forum made his stalking behaviour much worse and it made me very angry that he posted extremely personal emails on here, admitted that he was stalking someone and obsessed and yet people on this forum continued to post back to him and not until right at the end when he actually brought in the other person does someone else step in and stand up to him.

You may well be right about this So France - but since none of us here are psychologists and therefore none of us are able to diagnose anyone on a forum it is understandable isn't it that no-one jumped in and shouted STALKER! I'm not sure a forum can make someone's stalking behaviour worse though - isn't that a bit silly?

As for this:

sofrance1 wrote:Your post actually disgusts me.

It is completely mitigated by this:

sofrance1 wrote:I do not have empathy.

If you have no empathy you can't be disgusted, angry, hurt or joyful. Lowens suggests in fact that Cluster B personalities have only two moods 'Maudling sentimentality and irrational rage' (would these cover the 'tone' of your posts - as per Winmh's comments perhaps?). The rage is not linked to feelings though - the Cluster B doesn't have any and if you don't have any feelings you can't be hurt - or disgusted, right?

I am not a medical student or a psychoanalyst. I have never said that I was.

Normal - no I don't think its silly. I don't suppose it was very "silly" for her when she looked at this forum. Yes, I do believe that this forum made his stalking behaviour worse as nobody turned round to him and questioned him and what he was doing. They were all posts like the "blah blah blah" first one. I have said it before but it is an example of mob mentality. Everyone is braver in a crowd.

"If you have no empathy you can't be disgusted, angry, hurt or joyful."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT????

HPDs lack empathy, not emotions, not feelings. Are you saying that no one who has HPD gets angry?? Ever feels happy??? Empathy is understanding something from someone elses point of you. It has nothing to do with emotions.

SoFrance,

You seem to empathise with the woman that was the victim of the stalking. Rightly so, as he was wrong in so many ways (cheating on his wife to start with...). I judged him on that basis (yes, I judge cheaters!) and watched the train wreck unfold. I think other forum members wanted to help him as he pushed the right buttons, but were unaware that they were simply adding fuel to the fire.

Of course people with HPD have feelings. My ex was not an HPD as she had no diagnosis, I can only say that she was histrionic and many of her traits/our story matched what I saw on this site. However, she did have feelings, very strong ones. What she could not see was that her lack of empathy for me was the cause of many of her feelings - unable to see why I was 'bad' and upsetting her, when what I was doing was feeling the same pain as her over the situation. She only saw the outside - I was 'good' or 'bad', but could not relate to my inner state. So that kept the circle going, and my attempts to explain always seemed to leave her blank. The only feelings in her universe were her own, her view of all other people was based solely on their actions. HPDhelp was clearlry wrong based on the actions he described himself, and my ex would have said that too I think. But she would not have felt empathy for the woman, beyond her general 'all women are wronged by men' sisterhood line (which she used to justify chasing married men..?!).

But you do not seem blank regarding the stalking issue, clearly relating to HPDhelps ex's inner state due to your own experience. That is empathy. So why do you say you don't feel it?