The knowledge I learned here might have helped...

Hi to everyone... haven't been on here in a while. Hope everyone is good.

I must say I shocked myself last week when I used things I have learned on this board about myself and about HPD itself to possibly break through to someone in my life and possibly saved their marriage... at least for now.

I have been lecturing to all of the Non's on this board... WHY DON'T YOU JUST TELL THEM they have HPD, right?? Well this was my chance to do that and I COULD NOT MAKE THE WORD or term HPD come out. Very odd I know. But she isn't my spouse she is my sister.

She has many issues, much deeper than any of us siblings and makes very ill choices in her life. This is not her first marriage, but still has only been married for a few months and already before and after they married have had several serious ordeal fights and one got blown way out of proportion that phyical threats to other family member happened.

Well I got a call last week from her husband. This took me by surprise that he would call me. We all had the idea he was "what the man says goes" crap like our dad. BUT, I am thinking differently. He said he wanted my honest answer to a question that my sister had said I would say. She was posting her business, her pics, her everything on facebook. and talking to guys and this was like the 3rd time he caught her or he found out she talked to guys she didn't know and did not immediately turn them down when they "admired her" and questioned her about getting to know them. He said that she instead inquired about their pic instead of no contact after that. She told him I would agree and there are a few other minor details to this but point blank I told him that in that instance I did not agree that she should have done that. As we don't have a facebook ourselves for that reason of trouble... she just told him that I would agree always because she is my sister. I said, no, I feel that is wrong to flirt and flaunt bikini pics, etc on facebook when you are married, and then turn around and flaunt to the husband... "i got hit on today by a total stranger" and then what is the husband supposed to do? he can't beat up someone half way across the state or country, now can he.

And why would he?? SHE is the one posting this stuff out there for all the world to see. Befriending anyone even if they are friends with someone else she will ask to be there friend so she can say she has 240 friends on facebook but has NONE in real life other than her sisters and her mom.

SO, I talked to my sister for quite some time and told her you know I would never agree, and she made excuses of danger and etc, this or that and I said your husband has every right to be upset and you should stop making excuses.

I laid everything out for her that is her symptoms of HPD, EXCEPT for the fact that of telling her she has HPD. Dresses like she is 16 (well if my 16 year old dressed like that I would not let her out of the house) but still dressing too young, showing way to much cleavage, legs, tummy, etc. Always bragging how hot younger guys think she is, that she gets hit on everywhere...she is very NPD along with her HPD traits as well. She has done many things that most people would be ashamed of but always justifies it.

So, I told her STOP doing these things. make a choice to be better. DON't hurt him if you don't want another failed marriage. I just kept firing out everything that I had learned that HPDs do from this board that I know that she does. She in turn for now, has listened a little and said she would try to change. I think I finally go through to her about her clothes and her actions.

She deleted her facebook to show her husband that she doesn't need it. Think she has a few withdrawals in there, but so far it has been two weeks and still not on facebook anymore. I couldn't believe it. I have gave her lectures before about being selfish, but even when she got defensive this time she listened. She doesn't want her marrige to fail this time. When she didn't want to delete fb she said I don't have anyone and have no friends. I told her she has her sisters and those people aren't really her friends if they don't ever pick up a phone and call now and then and are only her friends on fb.

OMG!!!! I felt so good that I actually got through to her this time. She started her dramatic, oh woe is me crap and I shut her down out of it every time. She even tried to say thank you, i love you I am sorry I am affecting your life so bad... blah blah blah. I said it simply. You aren't affecting my life at all. I am just helping my sister. I am not stressed, and I am going to be honest with you. I was just really on a role and wanted to make sure to get it all out of what she needed to change. She has a bad habit of putting us all down to make herself feel good about herself. so I said it all. Now if she changes it will be a miracle, but so far so good in 2 weeks no drama and they are going out to the movies tonight my little sis keeping her two year old and getting along pretty good.

Just wanted to share with you all as you have helped me see traits in myself that I was doing when I first came on here and what I used to do years ago, and why I did them, and although had made major changes before I came on here, I have learn to side step those landmines when I come upon them to avoide any drama in my life.

Thank you to everyone on here. And good luck in your endeavors whether you are a Non or a Sufferer of the disorder.
S

Please stop diagnosing yourself and others..you treat HPD as if it is curing a cold..you come on here acting as if you got "cured"..well guess what? Maybe you never had it? Having HPD is serious.,.I highly doubt your sister has it either..If she raelly has it..you think she is gonna change in the blnk of an eye like that? I don't think so..

Scarlett

Thanks for that. My ex came back last week to wind up our apartment etc. It is the first time I saw her since the split, and since I learned about HPD from this forum too. Although no one can diagnose HPD on a forum, I did see many of the things discussed here 'in real time', not from my memory (I always wondered if I was seeing her through 'board tinted spectacles' - i.e. using the board to justify our split).

But much of the stuff we all know was there - the stare (I was 'wow'!, not my memory making it up!), pity plays etc. I too could not mention HPD by name, (who wants a disorder?), but talked with about her histrionics, showed I had moved on from our fight to trying to understand etc. She had a few moments where the guard came down, and when I said she only ever wanted the honeymoon part of relationships she agreed fully. She also described how pain was what made her act how she did, and that she did not self reflect or reflect on the inner dialogue of others etc.

We got along OK, and I had no desire to 'save' her, just to support her as best I can. It was a shame we did not have more time to talk, but this board helped me put a structure of understanding around how she is, and to talk to her without anger, upset and all the other stuff that the end of a relationship brings.

Anyway, my two cents is that the board helps us deal with HPD-like issues, even if diagnosis is not what is possible. I'd even say it is not what is called for - HPD is not an illness, it is how some people are. Once you cut off your feelings from their actions, I now think compassion is what is needed for what are really people in pain. Just the cutting off process (NC helps there!) may leave one too bitter/upset/wounded/exhausted to want to turn back to look at the person you left behind. So I am glad you are trying with your sister Scarlett.

Scarlett, I remained with my ex-HPD two years after finding this site and coming to terms with her destructive behaviours. To your question of "WHY DON'T YOU TELL THEM...?, well, the norm has no fast assurance of predicting the HPD's reception and subsequent response. It depends largely on where your are in the relationship cycle with the HPD; if you're still being idealised the HPD might facetiously accept some of the responsibility as a way of endearment, but I don't believe their acceptance would result in a meaningful change because they're not going to really believe they exhibit those issues. In the later stages though, they would exhibit hypersensitivity to any criticism, or fault and this would initiate or enhance the devaluing stage. The bigger picture though, I suspect that other non's like me, in other places too in this big 'ol world, fear leveling the charge while trying to keep the relationship intact. An HPD spouse might be more amenable to counsellling in an attempt to preserve a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th marriage, but a dating partner probably doesn't see much value in accepting such vile accusations and undergoing intensive therapy. Afterall, they'll just turn to another source of immediate supply.

My ex-HPD did seek couselling and pronounced herself healed!, which she wasn't. I do know she went to three therapists over four years but I was never a party to the discussions and as deceitful as I've come to understand she was, I can't be sure that any of the HPD characteristics were discussed since I never declared my belief to her she was an HP.

Scarlett1939 wrote:Hi to everyone... haven't been on here in a while. Hope everyone is good.

I have been lecturing to all of the Non's on this board... WHY DON'T YOU JUST TELL THEM they have HPD, right??



So, I told her STOP doing these things. make a choice to be better. DON't hurt him if you don't want another failed marriage. I just kept firing out everything that I had learned that HPDs do from this board that I know that she does. She in turn for now, has listened a little and said she would try to change. I think I finally go through to her about her clothes and her actions.

She deleted her facebook to show her husband that she doesn't need it. Think she has a few withdrawals in there, but so far it has been two weeks and still not on facebook anymore. I couldn't believe it. I have gave her lectures before about being selfish, but even when she got defensive this time she listened. She doesn't want her marrige to fail this time.]
OMG!!!! I felt so good that I actually got through to her this time. She started her dramatic, oh woe is me crap and I shut her down out of it every time. She even tried to say thank you, i love you I am sorry I am affecting your life so bad... blah blah blah. I said it simply. You aren't affecting my life at all. I am just helping my sister. I am not stressed, and I am going to be honest with you. .

It's nice that you helped her avoid a confrontation but I think it's a mistake to consider: "I told her she was Histrionic" a cure.. And little gestures like deleting her facebook don't indicate a cure for a pathology of behavior. She doesn't want her marriage to fail this time... Did she want her other marriages to fail? My HPD didn't want her relationship with ME to fail, but it did'nt stop her. And little gestures like SMASHING HER CELL PHONE didn't stop her from giving her NEW number out.

HPD is a deep seated personality disorder. It's not a little quickly curable thing like you make it sound.

Scarlett - that's awesome news! I'm glad you were able to get through to your sister, and that she's made changes because of it. It really is very hard to face up to someone you love and say "I think there's something wrong with you". Pointing out the bad behaviour, staying on message without being derailed or discouraged by her coping mechanisms, is very difficult. When I talked to my wife about her acting out, I used to feel like I was wrestling with an octopus. Once you do get through, though, especially if you're someone she trusts and cares about, you CAN make a difference.

Everyone else - I didn't see any claim that she'd "magically cured" her sister. Scarlett's words were actually:

Now if she changes it will be a miracle, but so far so good in 2 weeks no drama and they are going out to the movies tonight my little sis keeping her two year old and getting along pretty good.

That's a pretty realistic view on it. 2 weeks of no drama is *huge* compared to the normal life of a histrionic. In one of my past posts I said "I wouldn't need six months to be sure she'd changed; if we could go a week without some kind of emergency or drama then I'd know something serious had changed with her." I've seen similar progress to what Scarlett's reporting with her sister, over a couple of months now. The histrionic behaviour is still there but she recognises when she acts out and attempts to get it under control.

Ok..Scarlett..I want to explain one thing to you..and within the next couple of days I hope to post my full story of how I came to this board eevn though I have been coming here a long time.Why am I being so hard on you? I had arelationship with a HPD..he was a DIAGNOSED HPD..and to be quite honest..at some point..he was actually pretty normal..but I was cautious..he actaully said at one point that he felt he was "cured" ..that was when I got nervous..now alll this time ..I could indentify with a LOT of his behavior..I have had numerous affairs in the past..very bad behavior..it will make your head spin..I was probably worse than a lot of men..so my HPD TOLD ME I WAS HPD also...I believed him..I started going to see a Therapist who SPECIALIZES in PERSONALITY DISORDERS..she was predicting and accurately stating all his next moves..I was upset and told her so..at the same time she kept telling me I was NOT HPD..nor was I BPD or ANY PD..I was someone who was had acted out from TRAUMA in childhood..same trauma as my HPD man ..that was why I could identify...all I can say is when he kept saying that I was HPD..and to this day..It DID HARM..My therapist is quite pissed at him.and so am I..even though I have insurance I have to pay up the ying yang for this doctor..so SHE WAS RIGHT...he did EVERYTHING she predicted he would....and i did BELIEVE IN HIM>.Look..there is some chick runs a site for BPD..she has a motto.."Love is the cure" and she is refering to BPD..NO..LOVE is not the cure chickie..It is not that simple..what I have come to see more clearly..is that YES..we must show love..but recovery or ANY progress is HARD WORK..Ok..I hope you understand where I am coming from..I have nothing against you..I pray you are not HPD..I hope your sister is not either....but..i want you to know I HATE THIS DISORDER..NOT the person..If you come on this board and start saying ridiculous stuff..I will be all over you..sorry..I have no patience for HPD"s and their shenningans anymore..

Ring of Fire...

I did have a response to give on Friday but when I had a small break at work wasnt able to log on to respond. I do look at the board through my phone but try not to respond too much through the phone because of too many typos. So this is my first available opportunity to respond.

First of all to your response that you gave after I first posted.... I never said I was diagnosing anyone. I know my sister has the majority of the symptoms listed on many of the thousands of HPD sites. I am not her judge, nor her doctor. I just know the path of destruction she has gone down in her life as a result of these symptoms and traits and actions she does.

Again, I never TOLD HER... hey sis ... you have HPD!!! I said I could not say it. And the irony that I had asked the nons on here WHY did they not tell the HPD, hey, I think you have HPD, and then I could not say it myself. BUT, I pointed out to her behaviors that she does that she thinks is just her way of life, and I told her that those things she does is the reason that her marriages have failed and because she thinks very selfishly.

I have told her these things for YEARS!!! I never heard of HPD for years!! I didn't know there was a medical term for it. I just pointed out to her how selfish she was for doing these things to the loved ones in her life. Well this time I realize there is a term for it, but thought it would make her worse if I pointed out she might have a PD. SO, I talked to her about all of the symptoms without her even knowing or thinking that she may or may not have a PD.

Not everyone that people talk of on this board has been diagnosed by a Doctor. You have to understand that knowing now what I know of HPD, and PDs in general (I began searching PDs when my dad was diagnosed with SPD by his doctor) a lot of the diagnosis is based on what you are willing to admit to yourself and to the doctor. So if the HPD is known for lying and covering up, I would almost guarantee that the majority of HPDs don't get the doctor stamp of diagnosis because the ARE NOT HONEST.


NOW... to your second comment. With all due respect Ring of Fire, your harshness does nothing to affect me in my life whatsoever. I appreciate your need to lash out to "straighten me out" if you felt I am living in some la la land bubble that we just got magically cured. Nowhere in any of my statements of anything have I said I have been diagnosed, nor have I been cured. And at no time have I said I cured my sister. I added it WILL be a miracle if she listens to what I said and stays consistant with it. She admitted to me for the first time in all my years of lecturing that she is wrong but will be hard for her to change because it is like admitting defeat and that her husband is right and she is wrong and like he is controlling her. I told her I am sure he isn't perfect either and there are things he might need to work on, but you have to do them together.

And also again I am not being disrespectful to you Ring that "you will be all over me" if I say something ridiculous. I will change nothing about my posts on here because I have been completely honest with my journey of life and things I have learned about myself. I have no reason to come on here and lie or live dramatically. I have cut out any chaos and drama in my life with my family and everyone else YEARS before I ever came on this board or realized that HPD might be what I had/have still have traits of.

When I looked up the SPD of my dad last August I wanted to understand what it was and made him the way he was. Well, I then was reading of other PDs and when I read HPD, I was stunned. I never knew why I did the things I did when I was young. It wasn't just a normal teen girl that couldnt' decide on a boy to date. It was all these boys/men were attracted to me and drawn to me and even I didn't understand why, so therefore could not get close to anyone and the second they started to get too close, I dumped them. ANd then would start up immediately with someone else and do the same thing. I wanted to be in love but did not feel lovable and did not feel real love for any of them. When you have so many boys/guys/men calling you or telling you let me love you, and you crave love, it gets very addicting to get love from all of them.

BUT... it was not love at first site with my husband. We both noticed each other and were attracted to each other and became friends before we ever dated. That was the FIRST time I had ever done that. He saw very early on that my family was screwed up, but yet he still wanted me. I thought he must be crazy himself. It wasn't a perfect storybook IN LOVE courtship. We fought a lot. I would try to push him away and he would push back and still not leave. I didn't understand it. NO matter how bad I hurt him, THERE he still was with me.

Our first few years of marriage were rough. ANd nothing to do with HPD stuff (at least majority of it). Our life was basically this..... pregnant, me in college him working 7 days a week), married (a week before baby was born), me back in college three weeks later after baby born, he worked night shift, I had college during the day/sleep at night, I started working nights when baby was 6 months old along with college during the day. We saw each other a total of about 3 waking hours per day if even that. We fought when we were together because we didn't even feel connected to each other. So now add to the fact that I had traits of HPD. I wasn't getting the attention I craved so I lashed out and felt he did not love me. So I would say hurtful things and do hurtful things to him to get any attention from him. Add to the fact that we both use to drink back then. Alcohol and crazy thinking do not mix so that would make me worse. I would go from loving on him in one second to an angry rage the next.

I finally finished school when I was a few weeks pregnant with my second daughter. It was such a relief to be done with my degree. Now most people don't do four years of school in 3 years, but I had to do it. That was something I knew I had to do for myself and not be like my mom and wait until she had four kids to even start college. I start what I finish and that was the plan. But things didn't get better immediately. One evening we were sitting watching tv neither of us speaking or touching and I told him I wasn't happy about being pregnant. I was ready to get out of school and get a job. another baby wasn't in the plan. But he knew I would not do anything to stop the pregnancy and someone he said he really understood. We started going to church after that. It go so much better for us. NOT PERFECT. It still is not perfect, but it works for us.

The biggest change I made in my life is to stop drinking. He had already decided during my second pregnancy he wasn't going to drink anymore. I said that is great for you but when I am not pregnant anymore I might have one or two beers every now and then. He said fine that is your decision. He was quitting for him. At one point and time when I was pregnant my dad called me up in a drunken stooper and told me horrible things and just was tormenting me. He told me I was going to end up just like him. He was an alcoholic who had fell off the wagon for the 3rd time. It hurt me bad he did that, but something made sense to me in that moment that it was my choice to be different. I told him well, we will just see about that. I only drank once about 6 months after I had the baby and realized I could turn like my dad.

So, I never drank again and that baby will be turning 13 this summer. So that is how long it has been for me in making that choice to be better. I come from long line of mean alcoholics on my dads side and I choose to be different. My siblings and I don't drink and we've never done drugs. My older sister went through a rough couple of years when she was getting to be like my dad and she has made a good choice to stop all of that.

So, Ring, thought I might extend the olive branch to you because i know you don't mean to be harsh, but as long as your respectful and don't try to discount everything I say on here we will get a long just fine. This board is for helping ourselves and others.

And just for your FYI no matter if you have a PD or not, you realize choices you made were not good in affairs and whatever. So you don't ever want to put yourself as the judge when you haven't really walked in the shoes of the other. I always try to give benefit of the doubt before I over react. I knew you were lashing out as a result of someone in your life doing you wrong. I DO tolerate to a certain degree things because I understand where you are coming from. Just keep it respectful is all I ask. We can disagree and have our own views too without attacking each other.

S

Jay Mack,

I'm sure you will read my response to Ring of Fire so I won't repeat too much. When I was saying that in my post I had just thought it ironic that I thought it was so simple to tell someone hey you might have a PD but yet when it came right down to it.... I couldn't get that to come our of my mouth to my sister.

I knew she would be too defensive and if I made her believe she has a PD, with her personality she shuts down and gets depressed and doesn't see the whole picture. So, yes, I do understand why one wouldn't come right out and say that now.

If I were a spouse/lover that was getting ready to go no contact, I would at least probably give them a list of symptoms and tell them, look these up for yourself. That way you've at least made some type of attempt to help them.

It all boils down to choices. HPD is not insanity. You can't use it as an excuse to continue to hurt people. It just may take somoone pointing it out to make one realize what they are doing is not normal and they aren't alone and not the only one like that in the world.

Thanks for your comment though and I do understand now more why a non would be reluctant to say that to an HPD.
S

Hello Anutha,

Yes, most people that find this forum have searched for "what went wrong" in their relationship and why they felt "gaslighted" in their ex or their current partner. So even if you don't have a diagnosis for the other it is pretty well what they most likely have if they fit most all of the criteria for having it.

Then getting that other to admit that they even do these things to a doctor would be miraculous because they deceive themselves and others and live in denial when they have the symptoms and their actions are devistating to the partner.

You were seeing them "real time" and in your heart you know you are right no matter if she ever gets diagnosed or not. You are also better with No contact when there is not much hope they will ever change.

It was never my intention to imply that everyone WILL change just because it is a choice to be better.

I am sorry your relationship did not work out for the best but you seem to have learn to distance yourself and adjusting and that is what is best for you. With my sister only time will tell. She will be 37 this year and birthdays are like timebombs for her that causes her to try to be younger and we will see what only time will tell if she will continue to work on her behaviors.

I am going to try to help her only when she needs my help. She has to learn to see things for what they are and not have to be told her actions are wrong. So guess we will see.
S