how to break up with a possible HPD boyfriend?

confused44 wrote:Especially when he is able to portray his side of the story so well....it makes me think I'm the crazy one who is punishing him for no reason....??

That's how they work. You need to start taking his behaviors as CONFIRMATION that you are right and you need to leave him. For help in understanding how he's manipulating you, check out the Emotional Blackmail book.

confused44 wrote:
i don't have any recent proofs of him cheating, stealing or anything like that, he didn't do anything really wrong to me yet...other than ignoring me while he is with other people, conning other women, and being in touch with gazillion girls that he used to sleep with before he met me....but none of these are any serious acts, nothing i can justify breaking up with him.

Honey, you don't have to justify breaking up with him. You are an independent being and you can leave if you want to, for your own reasons.

But I do know where you're coming from. I realized I was in trouble when I started wishing my ex would hit me again so I'd have a "good" reason to leave him. Later, after I did leave, he repeatedly demanded to know "why". The more reasons I listed, the more he acted like he didn't hear anything and kept asking me "why". Eventually, he drug me in front of a judge under a law intended to protect families with children and made me tell "why" - and the judge backed me up. HA.

My point is, your need to explain "why" is largely due to his manipulation up until now. YOU DON'T NEED TO GIVE A REASON. You can just leave. It's ok.

confused44 wrote:The reason i want out is that i think he won't treat me well once i gave in completely (it already happened, but i realized very quickly), i can sense it, I know his past (excessive cheating, interest in transsexuals, conning) I can sense he wants to use me for money (he tried that one already, but i was able to prevent it), he doesn't care about me when he sees i care about him, plus all these other women: i know he is one or two steps away from cheating....haven't done that yet though...I feel like he won't leave me alone unless i show him a hard proof of him wrongdoing?

He won't leave you alone anyway. Did you read the article on separating from a borderline? I know borderline isn't exactly the same as HPD, but I promise, that particular article applies 100%.

MyWave wrote:Seriously, the best way to break up with them is to hold them accountable. Call them on everytime they mess up. Be critical of the irresponsibility to the relationship. Set boundaries....In other words show yourself and him you are no longer accepting his BS and your now committed to valuing and taking proper care of yourself...

This will sadden and then infuriate the HPD. They want you around as long as your not too much of a 'Problem' for them. Once you begin to become a 'problem' (call them on their stuff, demand accountability, question their obvious lies ect) they will then begin the process of finding new supply, then devalue you, and eventually blameshift and leave.

I have a ton of respect for Mywave, but I have to say that this approach did notwork in my former situation. He was just too comfy... he was getting what he wanted from me and he was not going to leave, ever, at all. IMO the best way to break up with him is to just DO IT, in a safe environment with witnesses, quickly and briefly with no explanation, and then enforce total no contact. This guy is NOT going to let you go (but it's not up to him anyway).

confused44 wrote:i can't deal with the whole waiting for me forever, begging, crying attitude...my heart melts

That is what No Contact is for. You CAN deal with it, and No Contact will help... read the sidebar in the Leaving a Borderline article.

confused44 wrote:or the fact that i don't have any real evidence makes him less of a HPD? he swears he changed and this time he wants to make everything right...i know believing this is foolish, and I'm still protecting my heart....yet I could not forgive myself if all these words really were sincere and I rejected someone who really meant to change and loved me?

No, the fact that he constantly swears he's changed and this time will be different confirms your diagnosis.

The reason i want out is that i think he won't treat me well once i gave in completely

This is the reason, why I never could get myself to set the date for our marriage. Somewhere inside my gut feeling told me that inspite of her promises, once I marry her, instead of her behavior becoming better, it will become worse.

Also her promises (words) seemed to continually be in contrast to her behavior (actions), and I could see that the promises were hollow.

MyWave wrote:Seriously, the best way to break up with them is to hold them accountable. Call them on everytime they mess up. Be critical of the irresponsibility to the relationship. Set boundaries....In other words show yourself and him you are no longer accepting his BS and your now committed to valuing and taking proper care of yourself...

This will sadden and then infuriate the HPD. They want you around as long as your not too much of a 'Problem' for them. Once you begin to become a 'problem' (call them on their stuff, demand accountability, question their obvious lies ect) they will then begin the process of finding new supply, then devalue you, and eventually blameshift and leave.

I have a ton of respect for Mywave, but I have to say that this approach did notwork in my former situation. He was just too comfy... he was getting what he wanted from me and he was not going to leave, ever, at all. IMO the best way to break up with him is to just DO IT, in a safe environment with witnesses, quickly and briefly with no explanation, and then enforce total no contact. This guy is NOT going to let you go (but it's not up to him anyway).

Mywave's suggestion actually worked for me, but i guess it takes time and its probably dependant on the finding of a new supply - hence probably easier with HPD women.

I am guessing it will not be that easy with HPD men, since finding a new and STABLE source of supply may not be so easy, in which case, Caro, your method might be better. Just my opinion.

newtohpd wrote:
Mywave's suggestion actually worked for me, but i guess it takes time and its probably dependant on the finding of a new supply - hence probably easier with HPD women.

I am guessing it will not be that easy with HPD men, since finding a new and STABLE source of supply may not be so easy, in which case, Caro, your method might be better. Just my opinion.

All I have to cite here is my own experience, but based on that, I practiced detachment for over a year before leaving with no change in his behavior whatsoever.

It really was like he was living in his own little bubble, and outside pressure never influenced him at all. I could list other examples, other techniques I tried under advice of a counselor to alter his behavior patterns. Nothing worked, ever. Granted, I've recently been suspecting he's got a strong antisocial component to his disorder and maybe that's at work here. Also, I think he had other women for emotional feeding and mostly depended on me financially. But anyway, my ex sounds VERY much like Confused's BF.

Also, after I left, enforcing no contact, while very helpful for me, did not change his frantic and desperate attempts to "win back my love" (sarcastically using his phraseology).

The point is, all of these techniques -- detachment, no contact -- are really to help the victim separate emotionally from the HPD. If that is what you are focusing on, confused, then you're doing fine. I just don't think, based on the similarities between my ex and your bf, that the 'detachment' phase is going to produce much change in his behavior.

Let us know how it goes, though. Like I said, I am not an expert. Just telling you what I experienced.

The other thing I've been wanting to say to Confused since writing my last message is that I can tell from your posts that you know you need to leave. Normally I'm a lot gentler about telling people to get out. But you're already there. You've made the decision in your mind. You're just scared about how to do it and how you are going to hold out against his pleas this time. I can remember feeling that way, like i was standing on the edge of a very high diving board and afraid to jump. I'm telling you though, you CAN do this and there are a lot of supports out there to help you along the way. This board included. Keep in touch, caro.

confused44 wrote:yet I could not forgive myself if all these words really were sincere and I rejected someone who really meant to change and loved me?

one more thing. are you staying because you have a fulfilling, loving relationship with him, or because you feel like you owe him something? based on the above comment, it sounds like the latter.

newtohpd wrote:

Confused - do you realize that when you will be on the other side (if he devalues and leaves you), crying and suffering, he will not have the empathy you are showing him... he will not take you back...he would have found a replacement and moved on...dumping you as if you mean nothing. Think about that.

Try a couple of things Confused: First, print this quote and memorize it, if you don't get it now, you will later, and tape it to your make-up mirror and to your dashboard somewhere. And, go back through some older post's and find quotes or comments that really strike home and print copies of them out too and leave on your breakfast table or somewhere so that you see them every morning as you're starting your day. Then start the no-contact process and use these to butress your emotional strength.

Second, search your soul really deep to find out what attracts you to him. I know you said you simply couldn't withstand his begging, but there's something deeper there, some type of co-dependency in spite of your self-declared independence.

There's one central theme in all the posts on this message board and that is: that an HPD will ultimately devalue and discard you, eventually, if you stay with them long enough, after you've come to accept and reorder your life around their dysfunctions. It will happen! And the question you can answer now is: do you want to prevent that hearache now?

The reason I suggested forcing him to be accountable ect...is because he is not living with you. He is coming over and smothering you cause he knows thus far that is what works. This will allow you more options on how you deal with him. If you were living with him, my suggestion would have been to secretly save up and when affordable just leave. That is basically what I had to do and others like Panama and Harry_S did with good success.

His whining, crying, begging, and coming to your property and refusing to leave are all forms of emotional abuse. Him being a cop means he has seen every manipulation in the book and thus is most likely an expert at deception/gaslighting. He knows your a good person with a good heart. The trouble with this is that HPD's like him will use your own goodness against you as a way to keep you as their supply. In turn, you continue to take the 'bait' and not stand firm on your boundaries.

Jay touched on something here that I also think you will need to explore...

Jay Mack wrote:Second, search your soul really deep to find out what attracts you to him. I know you said you simply couldn't withstand his begging, but there's something deeper there, some type of co-dependency in spite of your self-declared independence.

You may want to pick uo the book codependency no more and read through it. You may recognize some traits here that you will need to work on (boundary setting ect..) in order to get rid of this guy. He won't leave until he realizes that his manipulations no longer work on you. If you continue to allow him to manipulate you, it will continue to put you in harm's way and remain in this abusive situation. It's imperative you work on yourself a bit here so you can get to the point where you can be firm on your No contact stand

Jay Mack wrote:There's one central theme in all the posts on this message board and that is: that an HPD will ultimately devalue and discard you, eventually, if you stay with them long enough, after you've come to accept and reorder your life around their dysfunctions. It will happen! And the question you can answer now is: do you want to prevent that hearache now?

Ain't that the truth. Much better to become pro-active and take the lead in your own recovery. Their disorder is chronic and permanent. There not gonna get better and your relationship will only go downward. It's just the reality

Best wishes

confused44 wrote:Thank you for all your responses
unfortunately I'm back where i was...i still cant get rid of him

He was coming back from his ski trip, I left for the entire day and night, didn't pick up the phone, didn't answer texts with the exception that 'I don't wish to see him and that I wont be home anyway'....
well, he came over regardless, waited for me until I finally came back home...
then after 6 hours of begging, crying, great statements that I'm his life and he can't live without me, I finally gave in...AGAIN

I just can't deal with this, I can't watch him suffer like that in front of my eyes (even though i know its an act....), and reject him
Especially when he is able to portray his side of the story so well....it makes me think I'm the crazy one who is punishing him for no reason....??

i don't have any recent proofs of him cheating, stealing or anything like that, he didn't do anything really wrong to me yet...other than ignoring me while he is with other people, conning other women, and being in touch with gazillion girls that he used to sleep with before he met me....but none of these are any serious acts, nothing i can justify breaking up with him.
The reason i want out is that i think he won't treat me well once i gave in completely (it already happened, but i realized very quickly), i can sense it, I know his past (excessive cheating, interest in transsexuals, conning) I can sense he wants to use me for money (he tried that one already, but i was able to prevent it), he doesn't care about me when he sees i care about him, plus all these other women: i know he is one or two steps away from cheating....haven't done that yet though...I feel like he won't leave me alone unless i show him a hard proof of him wrongdoing?

Bloody hell! I relate to this oh so well. What i TRY to keep in mind is that that THEY ARE ACTORS and THEY LIE, THEY LIE and then THEY LIE SOME MORE. Blieve me, i so do feel you but you are grasping at straws (funnily enough i am at probably about the same stage you are - except i now have irrefutable proof that the he was definetely sleeping/ or at least having 'intimate relationships' with his other so called 'friends' and ex's. I would never have really believed it before but i am sorry to tell you that yours probably is too. Even if he is not sleeping with them i'm betting they believe they are headed towads or are in a relationship with him. I could never work out how mine found the bloody time (we were together for such long periods) but he did. They are ACTORS darlin, just dont forget that. It is what the term Histrionic originates from. Unfortunately for me I too needed proof - it took four years and the proof i so needed and eventualy got showed me that it all scanned back to THE VERY BEGINING - right from word go - even in the honeymoon period when we seemingly couldnt get enough of each other. You DONT need proof, you need yourself dignity and a partner you can trust implicitly without the doubts and confusion.

Confused-

Someone posted 'Seriously, the best way to break up with them is to hold them accountable. Call them on everytime they mess up. Be critical of the irresponsibility to the relationship. Set boundaries....In other words show yourself and him you are no longer accepting his BS and your now committed to valuing and taking proper care of yourself...'

In my experience (with a male security guard/ex RAAF HPD) this tactic does not work. Over the 4 years we were together I continuously 'called him' on each lie, each conversational manipulative tactic (which they do remarkably well through such emotion laden sentiments of love and making you feel like you are the only one/and crazy justifications which don’t really make much sense/ side step or side track the original topic/sulking and playing the martyr or the victim etc). I found that these numerous 'confrontations' just erged him to try harder and to turn up the emotion laden content. Personally I found these conversations extremely frustrating and counterproductive as they lack empathy and introspection which kinda cancels out the point of the confrontation. Since I have been 'no contact' I have also received countless texts, phone calls and emails. After three days of not responding (which was REALLY hard) he turned up at my doorstep.
I'm a little concerned that it appears as if you have left this thread so may well have taken him back (for now). If that is the case, it wont last long and you will be back here seeking understanding, guidance and advice (I hope so anyway). For me, it helped to keep in the front of my mind that THEY ARE ACTORS. Nothing is coming from a deep and REAL place. They are MANIPULATORS. He knows exactly what buttons to press with you and will keep doing so as long as he can see they are having an effect. I know its hard, but you should read more posts in here and come to fully understand how the HPD operates and how they are as people. It will help you begin to distance yourself, gain some understanding that there is nothing you can do and nothing that you could have done to make him or your 'relationship' better. Listen to Caro's advice, I did (amongst the advice on this forum from many others) and it helps a lot. Start looking at him analytically -at least that will help facilitate the begining of an emotional distance and through doing that you will also come to understand that IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU, it is all about him and his DISORDER. PD's do not get better, they are ENDURING PERSONALITY TRAITS, the key word there being ENDURING.

Your first post sounded remarkedly like my male HPD, I do (as do most people here-hence the reason they are here) understand and relate to what it is like on the 'normal' end of the relationship. Unfortunately 'normal' does NOT relate to your partner. Best of luck, stay strong, there is life after HPD (and a huge opportunity to get to know yourself on a more intimate level and get a first hand understanding of a personality disorder at work in general society- really, it's a rare opportunity! - Always lookin for the silver lining! )

Confused -
One more comment on something you wrote
'Especially when he is able to portray his side of the story so well....it makes me think I'm the crazy one who is punishing him for no reason....?? '

OF COURSE he does- it's one of the things they do best. OMG-i wish i could write a novel so you could read some of my HPDs 'portrayals' of 'his side of the story'. Its just another tactic to manipulate you into feeling so sad for him. Dont forget that they have been doing these behaviours for a looooong time and are really very good at it - how do you think all these intelligent and insightful people ended up here???!!! lol

As someone here once pointed out to me, their 'victims' (us) are quite often caring, empathetic people and genuine people. He knows this, of that you can be sure. Is he really worth the constant emotional rollercoaster? He he really worth you living in confusion of what is real and what is not? Is he really worth taking up the bulk of your headspace? In short - is he really worth more to you than you are to yourself?

I suggest you re-read your posts and then read, read, read and read more of the posts in here. Your not alone and he is not unique-just flippin disturbed. Poor darlin, it's so hard, I know. The mixed emotions, the doubt, the sorrow, the anger, the frustration, the times of thinking that YOU have over reacted and distorted your image of him, the whole feeling of surrealness. We are all here for you.....read, read and read.

Bam wrote:I found that these numerous 'confrontations' just erged him to try harder and to turn up the emotion laden content. Personally I found these conversations extremely frustrating and counterproductive as they lack empathy and introspection which kinda cancels out the point of the confrontation.

I used to find the same, but trust me - these emotional outbursts are a different beast entirely to a normal person getting overstressed or upset and chucking a poopie. They're deliberate and calculated, and are a case of what's called 'extinction burst'. Watch this for a brilliant video demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn97UnozDb4

Think of his manipulative emotional moves as buttons. So far, all he's had to do is poke the button marked 'guilt' or 'pity' and you do what he wants. If you resist, he starts poking another one - 'rage'. Raging usually shuts you down pretty quick, and so when the other buttons fail he's quick to push it. That's where you get the 'walking on eggshells' feeling - you never know when you're going to get a quick jolt of the rage button to pull you back in line.

If you stop responding to all of the buttons, including rage, then he does the emotional equivalent of mashing all the buttons in the elevator. This is the final burst - if you cave to it, you're worse than back at square one, because not only are you back under his control but you've reinforced his behaviour. If you withstand it, though, he quits. All the rage goes away and within a few hours he'll have forgotten all about it. It's like training a toddler out of throwing tantrums. When the only thing that works with you is calm, rational, caring discussion, eventually he'll learn to do that.

All that said, I want to reinforce one of Caro's points here:

Honey, you don't have to justify breaking up with him. You are an independent being and you can leave if you want to, for your own reasons.

She's dead right. You don't have to justify leaving him. In fact, the only possible justification for *staying* in a relationship is that it's doing both of you more good than harm. And if that's not the case for you, then thank him for the good times, kiss him goodbye and walk away.

Also, a word of caution - if he rages he's not in control, and you could be in danger. If my wife ever hit me, I'd shrug it off because I'm literally twice her size. If I were a 90lb woman, it would be very different.