Advice I could have done without...

When things started going badly with me and my HPD wife (about the time of the birth of our son) I sometimes asked others for their advice. It was hard (hell, I'm a guy who thinks he can solve his own problems, and didn't want to embarrass my wife), but I received a lot of well meaning advice that turned out to be spectacularly wrong. (because it was based on how a normal person would react).

1. "Just give her some space." "Space" was the last thing she needed-gave her more opportunity to cheat.

2. "You're the one she ended up with". -On my finding that her "history" was not what she said it was, and was the most extensive I had ever heard of. Turns out, as my brother said, she is just like a monkey swinging from vine to vine-and I was only the vine of the moment.

3. "She loves you, otherwise why would she marry you".

4. "People change, you can't hold what she has done in the past against her". Some people CAN'T change.

5 . "Just love her". or " Are you showing her how much you love her?"

6. "You're a smart guy, and every problem has a solution. You'll figure it out" . Some problems, it turns out, have no solution.

7. "She has a new baby, there is no way she could be cheating on you" Yes, she was.

8. "She wouldn't go after her boss, he's married and it would jepardize her job. She certainly knows this." She knew, didn't care.

9. "She has four boys she loves dearly, she wouldn't do anything to hurt them" . She can't help herself.

10. " You have to take responsibility for not fullfilling her needs".

11. "Marriage is not all sunshine and rainbows. you have to take the good with the bad"


And many others. It was all given in a wish to help me and her, and all of it was absolutley useless for dealing with a HPD.


I am sure others have had advice like this. I would like to hear some of it.

Still broken hearted, but determined to move on without her.

Bligh

you are not alone

it's funny how the things you do to mend a relationship with a 'normal' person, actually makes things unbelievably worse with an HPD traited individual.

I got the same advice on giving her some space, let her sort thru her emotions, bla bla bla. Turns out she didn't want space to sort herself out, but to go scope out some other fella

aaa. i was just thinking about the bad advice i got in marriage counseling today. Keep in mind that my ex kept turning the topics into housekeeping wars instead of our actual relationship issues, so consequently that is the theme of most of the advice. Most of these are from the counselor, but not all.

1. "You need to quit being so efficient and let him take care of things in his own time". yeahhhh

2. "You probably were initially attracted to him because you were extremely tidy and organized, and his laid back attitude was secretly appealing to you". Laid back? No, he was controlling.... just because he was a controlling slob doesn't mean he was laid back. Just for the record, I am NOT a neat freak.

3. "Marriage is for keeps." ... "Divorce is not allowed for Christians"

4. "He may have a problem with infidelity, but you have a problem with pride." ... "You're being self protective". Thank goodness for my self protective instincts!

5. "He's really sorry... just look at his face!" ... "I really think he's changed this time."

6. "Let's focus on what YOU can contribute to the marriage."

7. And the best.... "Nobody's perfect". (The eventual response to my description of adultery, abuse, and a myriad smaller things that honestly bothered me just as much.)

Wow, I thought i was done with these memory dredging type posts but this one really triggered something. Here is some advice I got after I left.

1. "I really think the Lord has dealt with him and he's a new person."

2. "You need to wait a few months before going through with the divorce."

3. "You need to cut back on (outside interests, friends, other family) and focus on saving your marriage"

4. "you need marriage counseling in the church"

5. "I'm here for you, tell me everything that happened... I want to help you guys get back together". Wow, before even hearing what happened? Really? Sure you aren't just nosey?

caro81VA wrote:1. "I really think the Lord has dealt with him and he's a new person."
2. "You need to wait a few months before going through with the divorce."
3. "You need to cut back on (outside interests, friends, other family) and focus on saving your marriage"
4. "you need marriage counseling in the church"

Wow... your marriage counsellor makes my skin itch. He sounds like one of those 'counsellors' who needs to quit spouting platitudes and get an actual psych degree before pretending to be able to help troubled people.

And:

4. "He may have a problem with infidelity, but you have a problem with pride." ... "You're being self protective". Thank goodness for my self protective instincts!

Maybe I'm being presumptuous but it seems to me that your problem was not with pride... it was with his infidelity! As if there's something wrong with you for wanting out of a marriage when your ex was breaking every vow he'd made!

[quote="TatteredKnight] Maybe I'm being presumptuous but it seems to me that your problem was not with pride... it was with his infidelity! As if there's something wrong with you for wanting out of a marriage when your ex was breaking every vow he'd made![/quote]

Yep Classic HPD blameshifting. They gaslight you to the point where they purposely try and confuse your intuition. Anything to keep the control

They truly are disturbed people

Thanks guys. Although I'm pretty clear on this now, it continues to help me to talk about this stuff and get some affirmation that I did the right thing and am seeing this clearly - thanks TK and Mywave. Bligh, I hope I haven't hijacked your post and this is helping you too.

The platitudes about "the Lord has really dealt with him" came from a pastor who was trying to intervene as a marriage counselor. I think it was well meaning but ignorant - and dangerous. A reminder that the general public has no concept of the severity and persistence of personality disorders and the damage they can cause. Also I think from a church perspective, there was an emphasis on keeping this private - in fact, I think my transgression of divorcing him was considered the greater sin over his infidelity and abuse, just because I made it public (although I still have not, and will not, discuss the details publicly).

the first post was from the "professional" marriage counselor -- this would also be the one that missed the HPD diagnosis -- and the comment about me being "self-protective" came right at the end. In fact, it was one of the things that helped me leave the counselor along with my ex. I just kind of sat up and thought, Yes. Yes I am self-protective. In fact, I think I could be more self-protective.

I kept thinking about my upbringing and my mother saying "nobody is ever going to hurt or take advantage of my girls, because they won't let it happen". While this statement may have been a little naive, in the end it was also true. I wish I could thank her for that... I also hope everyone on this forum who is struggling in an HPD relationship will develop their self-protective insticts too. Whatever that means for you in your particular situation.

caro

Caro, I appreciate your insights.

One thing that I have carried away from this is the almost total secrecy that surrounds the topic of personality disorders-particularly HPD.

I am an educated person, and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck (I'm 48). I've dated a couple of women that I knew had "issues".

But nothing in my experience prepared me for HPD. I knew her (saw her almost daily) for two YEARS before we started dating.

She was NORMAL with a capital "N". The first year was a very happy one. She didn't dress like a "slut", she didn't act like one either, she seemed ridiculously honest (walked a $20 bill she found in the bank parking lot inside and turned it in), she had great kids, almost no female friends but the few clearly loved her. She was a loving wife.

Flash forward 3 years and the mask was totally off- and I was agast.

As my stepkids grandmother told me (we are on good terms and I told her what was happening) "it's like we've stepped into an alternate universe-one we didn't know existed".

She doesn't act crazy. She doesn't look crazy. People instantly like her. She comes across as modest and kind. She is a hard worker. She seems the most normal person in the room-until you get to close. Then the demon comes out.

That is why all the advice was so wrong. It may have worked on a normal woman-but she is anything but normal.

How could I have gotten to middle age and never even HEARD of this before. Thank god I found this forum- I thought I was losing my mind.

thanks Bligh

Yes, bligh, you do think you're losing your mind. There are no physical bruises apparent to others, no public arrest record to validate their instability or no drug OD's, just their smile and outward charming personality to lend credence to their personna of a great person. No one's "education", either through life's experiences or academia, is relevant because one HPD person bundles all the destructive issues that you'd otherwise have to date 20 people to experience. One thing for sure though, you'll immediately spot similar issues in future relationships because you'll never forget.

Bligh and others...

It has been a while since I have been on here to see updates, but I think I want to respond to a few things you were told.

Space is the operative word when you say, "give her some space". It is NOT what the HPD would want even when they say... Give me some space. If you have chosen the HPD (knowing full well what HPD is before you get with them) then you know that giving them "space" gives also space for another to step in your place as the "love deposit" guy inserting whatever she needs in her love bank while you are thinking you are allowing her time to think. I am one that does need my space and I am not a full blown HPD and have had tendencies in my past and the last thing he should have done was gave me my space when we were dating. BUT, neither of us knew of HPD we both just knew I had issues coming from a crazy family.

BUT.................. on the other hand.....

Smothering the HPD and pointing fingers, and judging, and questioning, or acting or showing jealous rages, accusations, etc... will cause that HPD to find another "love deposit guy" also.

So I realize that you are moving on without her and you should do this for your own sanity, for anyone else out there that hasn't read my posts before, and you are just discovering HPD and still want to try to work things out with yours....

Sit them down and as loving as you can tell them... I want to talk to you and tell you why I think we have problems. And then lead into HPD even if you never use the term. Type out symptoms and tell them, these are things you do and there is something out there that has these symptoms with a name.

If you do this in any way condesending, they are going to turn and run from you or whatever. And there is one instance on this board that WE ALL told him, never mind, you are dealing with a psychotic lady there and it wasn't working to tell her. But I believe she had more than HPD.

If you are going to leave the person anyway, what harm does it do to tell them about HPD to help them. They already "hate you" for leaving them, so why do you all worry that they will hate you or not listen? Just tell them and whether they ever admit it or not, those words will be in their mind and what they do with it is entirely up to them. THen you have left no stone left unturned and you can have closure that you didn't just send them packing to do it to the next guy down the road that has no clue what is about to hit him. (or lady for the few male HPDs).

I have overcame a lot in my life and will continue to overcome any other obstacles in my life. It is a choice to act on what was not our choice. We have the tendencies and traits that go along with an altered personality that came from a dysfunctional home life as a child. It was not our choice in that, but it IS our choice to either hurt or not hurt others in our life. It is not an excuse to continue to hurt once we know we need to make changes.

I really hope that you all are having a better new year than years before. Well wishes in 2010...
Scarlettt