Advice I could have done without...

Thanks Scarlett,

No, I had no idea my wife had HPD. I never did rage, or point fingers. I tried as gently as I could to tell her that her behavior was unacceptable-but that I loved her and would help her.

She just turned in on with another guy, blamed me, raged, and then turned ice cold. Then she accused me of being NPD because I was trying to "control" her. Well, if trying to control her was my trying to get her to stop screwing other guys-then she's right!

I have thought about telling her about HPD. I just think she would immediatly dismiss it-as she has never done anything wrong- blame me, and make life a living hell for my son and stepsons.

She truly does not want to change. Because she thinks she is normal.

Turns out, she has been like this since she was 14.

hello Bligh,

I know it is more difficult with kids. For those that are going to go "no contact" forever... I suggest telling them before they go no contact then don't stick around. I read your other post on lying or letting her lie. It sounds as if you perhaps migh still want to "save" her or rescue her so that she will look favorably on you again. Not sure as I don't want to assume your feelings but perhaps you still have that or care too much because you are divorced, but looking at phone records comparing to caller id, etc. Not sure if you still want her back or just want her to know you aren't an idiot. There is no right or wrong and if you want to continue to be able to freely keep the kids, maybe just learn to care less. I don't really know the right answer for that.

You are fully right in not tolerating the screwing around and I am sorry that you have had to go through that. She honestly DOES know she isn't normal. The denial is only what we tell others. We know deep down something is wrong when we don't have the ability to love only one man forever and not draw attention to ourselves to attract more men. I say we as a relative term. I haven't been that way in years, but mine also started around middle school age. I remember when boys started liking me it was like a drug and although I started out wanting that one boy to like me, when hey all liked me I couldnt decide who I liked best so over time i would date them all. Not all at once, just wouldn't settle down. The older I got the older the guys got for me even one 34 when I was 17. That was the biggest age difference that I dated. My husband knows all of this and I only wish we knew of HPD when I was dating him that way we could have worked through to fix things before I did the things I did when we were dating.

It is unfortunate that you two couldn't work it out, but you are right she doesn't want to change or she would. Some say that we can't change and that is untrue. It isn't mental illness where we aren't responsible for our own actions. It is a personality disorder. If we can function at work and home and with kids, then we cn make a choice to be better. So don't let anyone tell you that it isn't a choice. I hope you can find closure at least and know you did right and what you could do.

S

Thanks Scarlett,

You are right on my trouble with letting go. I do still wish i could intercede to prevent some of her more egregious choices. 1. I want to protect the kids. but being truthfull to myself-2. I want her to try to find happiness even without me.

I felt like I moved heaven and earth to try to make her feel safe and loved and to preserve our marriage. I didn't divorce her for a year while she ran around-hoping she would get the therapy that she said she would.

But it all was a waste of time, and I have moved on. I guess I will just let her wind down to endgame.

I will say that I have immense respect for you and your story. (BTW my wife had you beat. Him 46 and married, her 18.!)
You are proof that she could change and have a happier life if she was truly commited.

I will continue to pray for her, but worry only about my son and fantastic stepsons.

Scarlett1939 wrote:giving them "space" gives also space for another to step in your place as the "love deposit" guy inserting whatever she needs in her love bank while you are thinking you are allowing her time to think.

this is an interesting way you put it

bligh wrote:No, I had no idea my wife had HPD. I never did rage, or point fingers. I tried as gently as I could to tell her that her behavior was unacceptable-but that I loved her and would help her.

That doesn't work. You thought it would, because you're a nice guy and it would work on a nice girl, but she's not a nice girl.

She just turned in on with another guy, blamed me, raged, and then turned ice cold. Then she accused me of being NPD because I was trying to "control" her. Well, if trying to control her was my trying to get her to stop screwing other guys-then she's right!

The first thing you need to do is take all the things she's accusing you of, and ask yourself "is that such a terrible thing to be doing?" A lot of the time the answer is "no, actually you were perfectly within your rights to do that." Like, she chooses to spend the day with one of her fan club, then comes home and tells you all about how he kept making passes at her. She'll say "you're just jealous, so it's you that has the problem." The nice-guy response is "I'm sorry, I'll try not to be jealous." The proper response is "damn right I'm jealous, you spent the day encouraging a guy who wants to screw you, the next time you treat me and our relationship with such disrespect I'm out."

Tattered

Many good points. Like I said, the advise could have been worthwhile on a normal girl, but she is not normal.

As long as she thought I was clueless, I was ok. Once I began confronting her with her lies-I was history.

As long as she thought I was clueless, I was ok. Once I began confronting her with her lies-I was history.

Rephrasing this based on my experience with my ex:

As long as she thought "things were clean with me" (her dirty past was forgiven and forgotten, her present lies and manipulations not caught, her future safe, she can control me, i will love her the way her fantasy works) and she could keep chasing me and seducing me (without me realizing this), I was OK . Once I began confronting her with her lies and "things became dirty" (to quote her), she couldn't envision the fantasy romantic love with me anymore. I was soon made history.

If you break down the walls and try and achieve true intimacy (honesty, mutual respect, sustained mature love, mutual care) then it becomes "dirty" for an HPD (they are exposed) and then they take flight. For them to be with you, you have to keep up the pretense of "infatuated love" (forget honesty, superficially respect them inspite of betrayals, show infatuated love, care only for them) and then do it some more by letting them chase you and seduce you (the excitement to ward off getting bored) - only then will they remain with you, show superficial love and affection for you (seduce you) and feel alive.

For me the choice was between:
Centering my whole life around this game - its a full time job (you have to turn pro) - playing the game by giving up all my other goals in life.

OR

Concentrating on my goals in life by choosing to have my peace of mind by finding an "appropriate" person who can reciprocate my feelings without so much effort, energy and the need to constantly play a "game".

I had finally gone NC and chosen to lose such a game where the "prize" is not worth the effort. Love, relationship and marriage couldn't have been a "game" for me in the long run. I am a real person and I can't turn my life into a game (or a drama on a stage) - I want a real relationship, whenever it comes.

She got married a month ago (found a replacement source behind my back during the last stages of our relationship and proposed in a week, got engaged in a month and married in 3 months). I wish this new guy (her husband) all the best in managing a game that can only be lost, unless she takes my parting advice and goes to therapy.

Bligh,

I am sure you did all you could to get her to see the error of her ways and what it was doing. The best thing you can do is be healthy and happy in your life without her and yes, do pray for her because she needs it.

The best thing that kept me from probably being like this was my determination to NOT be like my family and be crazy and do stupid things. When I was very young I knew that it wasn't a way of life I wanted. I wanted to get married, have a family, kids, and kiss my husband good bye of a morning and when he got home. And that was long before I ever had a husband. My parents didn't do this. My parents hated each other even when they were married. And guess what?? now, we kiss when we leave, when we get home, and in between.

Our kids our half grown and we have much in common to where we won't have to look for things to have in common once the kids are all gone. It took work, and sweat, and tears to get to this point in the beginning it was awful... mostly due to me and my husband not understanding. Now he knows, and he wouldn't cator to me, and would call me on the carpet on things. Mostly NOT in a loving way. And I fought the urge to run because I didn't want a failed marriage.

I used to tell him I hated him when we would fight. And in my dysfunction I think there was actual hatred that would come through, but not toward him, but how we had to grow up. But when we weren't fighting one day he said, when we fight why do you say you hate me. I told him you know I don't really hate you, he said then whey do you say it? I said because that is what my family did when we fought was say I hate you. the thing that could hurt the other person the very worst. He told me it hurt him. I told him I would never say that again. That was about 15 years ago and haven't said it since. It was a real eye opener for me of what dysfunction our family was... as if I didn't really know. But it was an outsiders view looking in. I thought it was normal. It was by far normal.

I really hope you can find happiness and you do what it takes to protect the kids. They need you. I wish someone had done that for us. But everyone just turned a blind eye to what was going on.

Good luck to you, and best wishes.
S

bligh wrote:
She was NORMAL with a capital "N". The first year was a very happy one. She didn't dress like a "slut", she didn't act like one either, she seemed ridiculously honest (walked a $20 bill she found in the bank parking lot inside and turned it in), she had great kids, almost no female friends but the few clearly loved her. She was a loving wife.

Flash forward 3 years and the mask was totally off- and I was agast.

As my stepkids grandmother told me (we are on good terms and I told her what was happening) "it's like we've stepped into an alternate universe-one we didn't know existed".

She doesn't act crazy. She doesn't look crazy. People instantly like her. She comes across as modest and kind. She is a hard worker. She seems the most normal person in the room-until you get to close. Then the demon comes out.

That is why all the advice was so wrong. It may have worked on a normal woman-but she is anything but normal.

Bligh, I've been thinking some about your statements, in the context of the bad advice we've all gotten. At first, I wanted to say that everyone liked my ex, too. But you know, I'm not sure that is totally the case. He didn't have any friends at all, and the people who seemed to like him fell into a very few categories: they only had superficial contact with him, they were in some way subordinate to him (ie, younger and prone to hero worship), they had other outside reasons for pretending to like him, or they were one of my friends -- who, as it turned out, were only tolerating him for my sake.

So if most people didn't like him, why the bad advice in my direction? I really am wondering about this. I have a few ideas:

1. Someone in a counseling position, seeing themselves as a hero, may want to fix the marriage no matter what. It must have quickly become obvious that he wasn't going to change anything or do anything at all; therefore, any efforts at change have to be directed at me.

2. Someone in a position of religious authority and trying to preserve the reputation of a given church may want to fix the marriage no matter what, with the same results as #1 -- and therefore has to focus on me if anything is going to happen.

3. I think there are a lot of people in troubled marriages (troubled for a variety of reasons not just PDs) who want to justify their position in staying by encouraging others to do the same. They're really paying more attention to their own situation than the one they're advising on.

One of the scariest things about leaving the relationship for me was facing the reaction of the community around me -- the feeling that people just don't understand. I'll have to go back and look at who said this to me - but I still remember a vehement "F*** the rest of the world" from someone on this board.