Do HPD's enjoy betraying those they have hooked?

There appears to be some HPD's that are just plain sadistic. They only rejecting people they have hooked, or cheating on them, abusing them, etc.

Could part of the motivation be as follows: HPD's due to childhood abuse have a deep seated feeling of being betrayed. They want others to feel as violated and betrayed as they do.

Any thoughts?

I am struggling with this question also. It has been a year since leaving my HPD, but during the past year she has intermittently and indirectly had contact with me (telephone hang ups, sighing into the phone, posting under a pseudonym on a message board we both used to frequent.) It's like she won't let me go...but what is the motivation behind these contacts? Is she punishing me for leaving, by forcing me to think of her every time she does one of these things? Is she hoping I will contact her and offer some supply (positive or negative) so that she can reject me? One interesting thing I have noticed since I have been reading here: I am no longer concerned (or, as concerned) that I will contact her with the hope of rekindling the relationship. My fear seems to be that I will respond to her baiting with anger, giving her a piece of my mind, letting her know what I think of her, etc. etc. All hurtful stuff. I am better than that, PLUS I realize that with her HPD, my blowing up would simply give her the supply she desperately wants. And, God knows, I don't want to give her any more of that.

It's hard enough to wrap your brain around the fact that the relationship you had with her wasn't real. I am slowly but surely processing that and understanding HPD. My acceptance of the whole thing seems to be better when I see her as a broken person, a lost child in an adult's (beautiful) body. I veer off course in my recovery, though, when I wonder how much of her bad behavior was deliberate, to mock me, humiliate me? That's a whole different kind, kind of like the difference between a negligent act and an intentional one.

I just don't know how to deal with it if she has DELIBERATELY hurt me, and if she is deliberately baiting me so she can hurt me again. It's confusing, the difference between her being a victim (of her childhood abuse) and a perpetrator. I guess she is both.

I understood early on with my HPD that she had a deep fear that I would abandon her. She, of course, made this a self-fulfilling prophecy, as I did ultimately abandon her because she simply could not offer me the things I need in a relationship, and on top of that I realized that I couldn't trust her. She was hurting me, a lot. It seems that, since leaving her, she does want me to feel the pain of betrayal as she has felt it. Little does she realize, though, the pain of being on this side of the relationship is a lot LESS than the pain of being in a relationship with her.

Hi:
From what i know about my own relationship, my X feels she suffered betrayal by both her parents. The father has a very passive seductive and controlling role (but is in reality I think the more active of the two parents in being a problem for his daughter) with my X. What that means in real terms is that he has set "expectations" for his daughter, putting her under much pressure, despite that she is an independent adult. This is in fact just a pseudo independence, he is still behind the scenes pulling the strings. He would seem to believe he has the right to do this because he feels he has invested in her financially through her education, and because he is a devout Catholic who knows better, and that sees himself as a pillar of society because he is part of the local town governing council and what not. His own perception is that he is a model (for others...) upper middle class citizen, and his daughter is expected to provide similar perception and performance. At the same time he has a love hate relationship with his daughter, in whom he has a tendency to confide about problems between himself and his wife, her mother. My X was one of 3 children, but I noticed in the family photgraphs that she showed me, that she is always with her dad, more often than not in his arms when young. The relationship between them would seem to have been intense, the other two don't seem to be much in the picture. From what i saw in the photographs, he obviously doted on his little girl. But it became clear to me during the relationship that he later overstepped the mark with her at some point (i don't think i have all the details...), as when she and i were together she would sometimes ignore his calls for weeks at a time. Like all her relationships the one with her father seemed to be on and off, all or nothing, cyclical. She either was hanging on his every word or seemed to be deeply hating him. I witnessed this so regularly that i realised something was deeply a miss.

Her relationship with her mother is one of a deep, cold bond. She loves her mother terribly, but said her mother has never able to show her any kind of physical love. In fact she was always wanting cuddles and kisses from me to the point of embarassment, and i quickly put this down to some affective deficiency, even before she spoke to me about it. During our relationship her mother suffered a serious myolitis attack, and my X got scared for her. She said she did not remember the last time that her mother held her in her arms, or vice versa. So i said, "well why don't you just take her in your arms?". So she did and she was ecstatic about it. However, when we were together one evening my X showed me a letter that her mother wrote to her about our relationship. It was basically 8 pages saying that by maintaining a relationship with a divorcing man (who was a father to a child to whom she would NEVER be mother...), she was showing up her whole family and that god would damn her to a future in hell. I am not joking, this is pretty much what i read. I read it not quite knowing what to make of it, nor really knowing (as it was late on in the relationship and we had big problems of lies, manipulations etc...) if her mother had really written it or if it wasn't a set up to excuse her from the way she was acting with me.

Together, my X felt that she had to live up to her parents expectations, but that both her father and mother tried to manipulate her separately to have her do what they wanted, then work on her together if they did not manage. She said she had confided things in her father that she did not want her mother to know, but she found out through her mothers actions that the father had obviously consulted with the mother. There were threats made (i don't know what kinds, she just said threats...) if she did not ultimately do as they asked, and she felt that they (particularly the father...) were trying to manipulate her so that she would do what they wanted. I understood it was "do what we want you to do or else!" So, she painted the picture they wanted and did what SHe WANTED behind their backs. We had numerous conversations about this, and about how she could somehow find a symbiosis (or reconciliate) their wishes and expectations for her life, and her own. Ultimately I also ended up on ther receiving end of such treatment. She had learned that she could do what she wanted whilst living upto what she understood others expectations were of her, by lieing. I do know that when she was 13 she voluntarily left her parents home in Paris to go live with her aunt in Germany, and that until she was 16. Now what I wonder could be behind such a decision? I really dont know. These (and a host of other...) situations meant that she often felt betrayed and struggled for her own identity facing her parents idealistic expectations, but this spilled out into her other intimate relationships. I think the root of her relationship with her parents promoted much of her mythomania, constantly having to lie to her folks (and later me...) to promote a version of herself that was acceptable by the person facing, plus the incapacity to deal with conflict.

So then, to get back to your primary question, i think the answer is often yes. HPD may obtain satisfaction from betraying those they have hooked. They may have grown up with severe betrayal, on the receiving end, and have witnessed the power (all be it negative power) that betrayal can provide because they themselves have suffered the consequences of it. Through betrayal you can get others to do what you want, but to a point, until it backfires. It does not always, but in many cases shall, such as in intimate relationships where the real person (including any lies, facades and manipulative behaviour...) is exposed sooner or later.

I think that knowing that my X has suffered from all that she made me suffer from has helped me to sort of forgive her. I have never suffered from such treatment from my parents, I only received love understanding and had a great amount of freedom very young to live as i felt i wanted to.

best regards,
Musician

I am a person with HPD and yes, I have immensely enjoyed abusing and betraying the people who have been in my life. It was exhilarating and thrilling to plot, scheme, and deceive people to my personally tailored manipulations. Whenever a person started suspecting, the feeling would be incredible. How do I even begin describing the adrenaline rush and exhilaration of having to stay intellectually sharp in order to evade losing the person? I can't. Whenever I was deceitful to my significant others, I would secretly laugh at them for their foolishness. I would view men as disposable. Replaceable. And I still do, but I've been trying really hard to stop this pattern of thinking and behavior. I am the disingenuous HPD though, so I can't speak for every HPD.

Good morning the_fountainhead:
So If I understand you correctly, you actually "get off" on the pain and suffering you cause people that love you? So in addition to being a self-proclaimed HPD you are a sadist, is that right? That sounds like a passive-aggressive type of revenge, but revenge for what? What happened to you to make you that way? Knowing what I know of my X, she could have written the same paragraph as you have here, because despite her intelligence (and I don't doubt yours either given your prose...) she made mistakes and i caught her red handed. But given what you describe of your schemes and manipulation capabilities, it is possible that she set herself up to be caught, may be she "got off" on that. Who knows!. However, when that happens, when you've blown your game because you became too daring and too confident, or because blowing the game is part of the plan, how do you feel, what do you do, and why? What about the person that you deceived? What are your feelings towards them when you see them angry and hurt (other that they are fools of course...)

Secondly why do you call the people close to you that you deceived "fools"? Who do you think you are, you are actually the fool to imagine you can live your life like that and obtain love from your world in return. Those on the receiving end have been deceived/betrayed by you "unknowingly", so how can you call them fools? If they had known the real you, they most probably would have chosen not to waste their time with you, indeed it was my case, I (the fool... ) walked away when she finally revealed the walking abcess that she is. I feel very sorry for you and your type these days, becauase life is short, yet you waste your time destroying people including yourselves (but what goes around comes around...always...careful!) when the world is full of so much to do and learn from, including building loving relationships with others. You may obtain plenty of lust and good (illicit...?) sex with it, but love, never if you live a frauds life like that. Love is sharing, love is trust, love is honesty, love is respect towards the other person (the ones you call fools...).

I hope you have come to this forum for the right reasons, that is in my perception, to help yourself and help the many that come to this forum because they have loved an HPD so much to be hurt so very badly through through fraud. I hope you have not come here to cause havoc, and further pain. Many of us on here have suffered enough and can do without that.

With my "Sincere" regards,
Musician

Hi Musician,

Yes, I guess I am a sadist by definition. And you do make a lot of correct points. I know I view these people I victimize as fools, but I also understand that in the end, I am the fool. I sabotage my relationships because I can't handle the risk of vulnerability. In the end, I am the one left alone. You asked me why I feel the need to victimize other people. The answer roots back to my childhood. My mother greatly emotionally and physically abused me and my sister. I think in order to compensate for this conditional "love," I forced myself to identify with the predator in order to avoid never becoming the victim again. As for being caught, I was only ever caught if I wanted to be caught. It's easy to cheat and manipulate and to get away with it, but it's boring. That is why I used to throw things into the mix to enliven the relationship or situation (not for the both of us, but only for me).
While you make a lot of candid and great points, I did find your intonation a little harsh. But, I understand where you are coming from. I do want to change, but it is hard when I receive feedback that I find a little bit discouraging. Thank you for sharing though. I'll talk to you soon.

I don't desire to betray anyone.... Not that it's never happened, but when it does, it's impulse, it's a flash fury of "I hurt, so now they must hurt!" Though most of the time I'm good at resisting.

The truth about my need to "Hook"? I can't trust a girl until I know she's hooked. And usually that means she needs to be sexually addicted to me. Because in my mind, that's the only quality I can really bring to a relationship beyond friendship. I'm not dependable, reliable, wealthy, responsible, or stable..... I've got no qualities that scream "long term material". I'm Tall, humorous, a good conversationalist, and rather charming until I trust you enough to let my guard down.

But I think I'm more of the Appeasing breed of HPD, and it's coupled with intense self behavioral repression habits. I really wish well on everyone, unless I'm in FL traffic, or if someone hurts me and I fear further hurt.

Now I've coldly cut ties with people, but it wasn't because I wanted to hurt them, but rather just to protect myself. That which stands as an obstacle, must be conquered, what can't be conquered, must be removed from my cognition. Because their very presence will forever be a shrine to my failure, and everything that's wrong with me otherwise.

Fountainhead,

Would you describe the rush you get when betraying almost sexual/orgasmic in nature?

Hey all of you on this thread. I was going to remain silent on this, but really felt compelled to tell you about my view...... hope it helps answer the original question.....

My intentions were never malicious in any way in "hooking" anyone ever. I never thought of it as a game, I only thought I would meet someone and be totally "hooked" on them for a while and when the intamacy/jealousy on there part/questions/suffocation I felt, etc would begin, I would run. I don't ever remember a time that I felt that I "got off" on hooking someone, other than the fact of one guy that broke up with me and later, we hooked up for one night of intensity and not just in the bed, and we never talked about where it would go after that night, or a relationshiop as we both lived in separate states, but it was the fact that the night was perfect for both of us and I did smile to myself on that one that he now knows what he is missing. Now this was years ago, so he probably doesn't even think about that now, but I am talking about back then. We parted on good terms hugged each other bye, and never saw him again. Never asked him why he previously broke up with me the year before or do most things that girls do and get jealous or anything. Just gave him the best night of his life (up until that point at least) and that passified me that it was the best "revenge" I could have done.

I always wanted them to love me, even if I couldn't love them back, and YES for those that haven't read my story, I know that it is wrong and knew it then, but was just a kid so what did I know about anything. I know I believed the lie that you will just "know" when you meet that someone you are meant to be with, and that is not true. Love is just what it is and marriage is work no matter what anyone tells you.

And tin777, just from a woman's perspective, I don't know any woman that gets hooked sexually. maybe so, but I doubt it. Ours is an emotional connection by nature. But either way I know I have been hooked on guys for a short time until I got them hooked on me, and then I would move on So you are on the other end of the spectrum that you are a guy doing that to girls then?

Either way to anyone that reads this, is ........ it is a defense mechanism, and not that I am doing anything now, but this was back years ago for me, but I still have that need for attention even if it is just from my husband which he gives me for the most part,but I am learning I can't be on his mind 100 percent of the time because if I was then he wouldn't be a good father or employee or anything else if all he thought about was me. So, I know this, and it is a process.... hope this helps, and everyone have a good weekend in case I don't get to log back on.

Hi Bubble boy,

No, I wouldn't describe my rush as sexual/orgasmic in nature...unless you describe is as an orgasm of the mind.