When did it really hit you?

I was talking with an old friend of mine today and we were discussing my ex gf. And we ventured into a memory that we both shared of her, when it hit both of us that there was something seriously amiss.

I had been dating her a couple of years. My old friend was in town because his father was in the hospital. He actually knew my ex gf from some years back. I decided we should pick him up at the hospital and take him out on a certain Saturday night. I knew he was tired of sitting around needed a break.

We picked him up from the hospital and went to eat. As the three of us sat at the table, my ex gf was dominating the conversation, buzzing about one thing or the other. After the meal, she said she wanted to go to a birthday party for a co worker. The coworker was a fellow teacher from school, about half of my ex's age. She was fifty and the co worker was 24. They had become fast "friends" although by and large I could see that they really shared very little in common. But by then I was used to her making "friends" all the time. New names always popping up. I didn't think a whole lot about it.

So we venture to the birthday place which, while not a dive, was not exactly the place you would think my ex would want to frequent. All of us pile into the place and she immediately sees her "friend". Both of them start screaming and hugging as if they haven't seen each other in years, although they had seen each other only a day before at school. I remember thinking that was a bit odd but attributed it to a "southern" thing. We went into the party. The three of us didn't know anyone and I don't know how to say it but really it wasn't our kind of crowd.

That is, not to cast judgement; it is just that almost everyone there were the ages of the children of my ex and me. No harm, but I felt a little bit out of place. After the initial greeting had settled down, all three of us found a place to sit at the table. Now, other than the birthday girl, my ex gf didn't know a single person there. However, this is what I remember: her eyes were absolutely glowing. She was at a party full of young people. It was like she had been injected with a drug. At one point she asked me to hit the dance floor.

So we, being the oldest ones there, stepped onto the dance floor. It was like someone had hit her with an electric charge. She started screaming and waving her arms, making more noise and acting more animated than anyone else on the floor even though we were twice the age of most people there. Now, understand that this was a fifty one year old grandmother and one of the oldest people on the floor. If there is such a person as an attention whore, she aptly demonstrated it that evening.

And while I am all about having a good time, I remember thinking exactly this: "This is really odd. She is acting nineteen."

I think it was at that moment that I really started putting it all together. I had never heard of hpd but I knew, just knew that this was something more than someone acting out. This was a seriously screwed up situation and she was seriously screwed up. After describing this and other events a few days later, the therapist I had long known described to me what it was. And later that month I ended the relationship although it continued with contact for another year and half in its own way.

As my old friend and I discussed this today, he said he remembered that night and remembered watching her on the dance floor and he came to almost the exact same conclusion. Something is not right with this woman.

A lot has happened since that night. I know more about personality disorders than ever Ithought I would. I know about hpd but at least I know. And nothing has changed with her as I have noted elsewhere. Last May she was in a coastal bar and as she related to me, she was such a partier that the lead singer of the band actually missed her when she wasn't on the dance floor and called her out, something of which she was vastly proud as she related to me. And then this summer she was on the dance floor in a bar in a nearby city dancing with two recent high school students, twenty one years of age.

How to wrap one's mind around that except she is the emotional age of nineteen. I saw her future the other day. I was in a store and there was a woman, at least 80. She had on short blue jean shorts, a colorful blouse, her hair coiffed in a youthful fashion, big earrings and a colorful purse. She looked ridiculous, dressing as if she were in her thirties. She turned and looked at me and smiled and I just sort of stared at her garish and ill fitting outfit. (80 year old women should not be wearing short blue jean shorts).

And it hit me that this is who my ex will be in thirty years. I have no doubt she will dress just that way. She dresses that way now.

In any case, I would like to know when it hit other partners of hpd's that something was seriously wrong.

I think the first time I realised something was really wrong was the first time I caught her out in a direct lie, saw something she'd typed to a guy and she basically forced me to kiss her to get my eyes off her screen. That one hurt, that kisses meant so little to her. And that lying to me meant so little to her.

Then there was the conversation where I said "(fan club guy) is only your 'friend' because he wants you to leave me for him" and she basically said "What's wrong with that? He's a good friend, why should I lose that just because he wants to be my partner?" And she's still saying that today about a different guy.

Things that I noticed:

-While with someone else and supposedly in love, made a big deal about us being friends, emailing me about how she's becoming attached, etc.

-Tripped on me because I was hurt that things didn't work out with a girl that I liked, all while with someone else

-After we started back talking after a devaluation/cut off, never came forward and said sorry for doing that, though I clearly communicated how greatly that upset me.

-Complained to me that people and her bf would tell her that she's crazy

-Several obvious lies

-Once admitted to faking crying

-'lol'-ed about big arguments with her bf at the time

-Casually talk about things that she was crying like hell talking about earlier. Not the same as a normal person who isn't upset anymore, kind of hard to describe unless you've encountered an HPD.

-Frequently played the victim. Every upset was people being bad to her.

I think the first time I realised something was wrong was early on in the relationship, about 5 weeks in. We had been having a "hot moment" on her couch, and we got talking about the coming weekend. She was going to her parents summer house (though it was December), I had thought on her own, Friday night, for the full weekend. But then she mentionned having bought some beer at the super market "for the boys", and i had assumed (wrongly) that she meant her dad and younger brother. I did not question her. Then I l slowly learned as she gave away little morcels of information, enticing me to ask more questions, that it was in fact two guys that she knew, and that worked at the same company we did. I was in fact quite friendly with one of the two. They were going to be at her parents place, just the 3 of them, her family was not going to be there. Of course (and as she wished...) I had a major jealousy attack because I did not understand why there were no other girls and why the group of "friends" was so small and so "male". I realised that something smelled fishy, but did not know exactly what, and in fact I came to the short-term conclusion I was being too prying and touchy. Now here is what really happenend (the hidden info I was not given by her initially). At XMAS she received 12 red roeses from one of the 2 guys, nothing from the other. It turns out that even though she was starting to bed me, of these 2 blokes, one fancied her and she fancied the other. The one she did not fancy was "used" as a pawn to try and make the other guy jealous and fancy her in return, but the other guy (the one i was friendly with) had no feelings for her; so her plan went belly up. She would have liked to have received the roses from the guy she fancied, not the other, but the inverse happened. boo hoo... ! But of course the calculating young woman she was had prepared her contingency plan, and I was it. The devoted, Nice, warm and pretty cute (but not mummy and daddy friendly material though, as much older and going through a divorce...) 38 year old man that she fell back upon to continue her supply.

I realise that i should have ran like hell then when that happened, but unfortunately she did not reveal her full game plan until several months later, and then she just laughed about it. I smelled something was wrong, I smelled what she later explained to be the situation, but was lacking information to make good judgement on how to act. By the time she told me the truth (which would seem to have been a well planned moment) our relationship "seemed" stable enough. Smoke and mirrors as typical with HPD women. I find what she did low. It was the first of many incidences that clearly displayed squalid, wanton behaviour towards men.

Musician

Musician924 wrote:Then I l slowly learned as she gave away little morcels of information, enticing me to ask more questions [...] I had a major jealousy attack because I did not understand why there were no other girls and why the group of "friends" was so small and so "male".

Gotta love that, don't you? Their game plan is "you will be jealous of me and try to control me". If you don't play along, they'll drop hints and ambiguous suggestions (as the 'fill in the blanks' thread was about) to manipulate you into feeling that way.

It's never been worrying what she's up to when I'm not there that's bothered me. Anything like that would be my problem to deal with. It's the $#%^ she rubs my nose in when we're in the same room that's unforgivable. One sickening memory I have is of her pushing me into a seat next to her current fan club guy and then squeezing herself in between, sitting there radiating satisfaction like the cat that got the cream. Well done, you 'won', you got to rub yourself up on both of us at the same time. But it was all totally innocent and I'm just being jealous... right?

I came to the short-term conclusion I was being too prying and touchy.

Yep. She's running the show. You sit still, do as you're told, and You're only meant to find out about rivals for your coveted position as Incumbent Boyfriend when she wants you to, at the right plot point. Then you're meant to have a showdown with him, so she can sit and cheer on the two brave knights fighting for her hand (forget that she already pledged it to you, that's all in the past, wouldn't want to be petty now would we?)

I realise that i should have ran like hell then when that happened

Isn't hindsight wonderful? I should have dumped her nine months into the relationship when she picked up her first real fan club guy. I didn't because I mistook sorrow and maybe remorse for contrition (thanks caro81VA for the link to that article!) Looking back, I *should* have known things weren't right from the very start - she'd do something, see that it hurt me, say sorry, and keep doing it. At the time it confused me completely, now it looks like a giant red flag. Also, I guess, I made exceptions because I knew she'd just come out of a bad situation. I've (I hope) learned better than to try and rescue strangers in future.

Hi Tattered:
I had a "cat that got the cream experience" almost the same as yours. Her sitting squeezed between me and "just an old friend" on my couch. She was showing off as we can imagine, with exuberant gestures to the point of ridicule. I remember laughing at the time, I had initially found it cute because it was so unrestrained. However he grabbed her hand at one point (like a boyfriend or a lover would; you know when no intimacy barriers exist between two people any longer...) which she immediatley expulsed. It became clear that he was not expecting her reaction, and that his feelings for her were not what she had explained to me. He either wanted more and already got more at some point, or had strong reason to have hope he would get it. It was obvious by his look that he was very hurt at the reject; and myself very angry with him that he grabbed her hand at all. I remained Stoic, I think simply out of shock and to see how things would evolve. When I confronted her later on about what happened (because this incoherence led to many others with him DURING that weekend, some I saw for myself, others she told me about...), she dismissed what I saw and felt as being due to my imagination. That young man was over from Munich to see her for a full bank holiday weekend during May (at pretty much the strongest point in our relationship, and everything had been fine for several months...), he stayed at her place, and according to her CAME ON TO HER later on the Friday night (he had invited her to a top restaurant here as thanks for help in getting him a job, I was not invited...) after asking for a massage when they arrived home. A massage from my girlfriend ? Well either she stank, he stank or they both did ! Of course at the time, she got the benefit of the doubt and we both blamed him for what did or did not happen. He ended up sleeping on his own at her place on the Saturday and Sunday evenings, with her staying at mine. She refused his many calls (until 3AM on the Saturday and Sunday nights). I eventually got upset, but she subsequently refused to give me his full name (I only had his first name...) or his email to sort things out man to man; so I could not check the truth of what she told me by getting his version of things. He allegedly wrote me an appology letter afterwards, which I received, but I SAY ALLEGEDLY, because it was type written, and I think she wrote it herself to calm the situation, protect him, but also ultimately protect herself from what I believe to have been a pack of lies. I believe I explained the full story in another post some time ago, so won't go through it again.

All the above to say that i am no longer angry with her, but so angry with myself still sometimes because I did not listen to my intuitions. I had felt that something was deeply wrong, but because i did not have hard facts, just insinuations that lead to intuitions (what you say about filling in the gaps Tattered, I shall have to read that positng...), I over ruled my own good sense. Paradoxically, I (as most of us on here) did not have the information at hand at the time, other than what may have been non-founded doubts, to make a decision I may not have regret later, so I have to force the one side of myself that says "YOU STUPID NAIVE MAN" to forgive the error committed by the other. Not easy, still getting there through this forum...

Have a nice weekend,
Musician

TatteredKnight wrote:Yep. She's running the show. You sit still, do as you're told, and You're only meant to find out about rivals for your coveted position as Incumbent Boyfriend when she wants you to, at the right plot point. Then you're meant to have a showdown with him, so she can sit and cheer on the two brave knights fighting for her hand (forget that she already pledged it to you, that's all in the past, wouldn't want to be petty now would we?)

wow, i couldn't quite iron out what the one i encountered tried to pull until i read this. thanks for putting it into words.

My story's a bit complex to delve into quickly, but I only recently acquired the "tag" of HPD as relates to my ex. I was talking to a social worker friend, and I brought up the topic of my ex. I still have some big time hate and anger issues as a result of her, so I was astounded when he began describing "her" I mean it was really really spooky because she's never been near my home area. (Spokane/portland) yet everything he described fit to a tee.

I've known what she was about for some time, but I didn't know there was a term and other cases like my Histrionic nightmare. Immature behavior is actually the very least of their dysfunctions so you're very fortunate ya got rid of her when you did! I guess the answer of when it hit me is 3weeks ago. I have to change my own tyerm for her from "toxic-tramp" to "histionic toxic-tramp" lol