Distinguishing between BPD and HPD?

How do you? What are the major differences?

The reason I ask is that I am now a recovered Borderline (well, now suspecting misdiagnosis, as did my second therapist), and a LOT and I mean a LOT of the behaviours being described here by sufferers as well as "victims" were exhibited by myself and to some degree still are. Whilst my anger and emotions are now handled a whole lot better, there are other elements that still remain which seem to be HPD traits.

I was shocked to find that this "personality disorder test" (http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html) told me I was leaning more towards Histrionic than Borderline - in fact I was offended at first! I know I shouldn't take these tests seriously but surely that is to some degree indicative of a misdiagnosis, especially as the test is based on scientific measures?

How can you tell whether or not someone is being HPD, or someone is being a regular woman? In my experience, most women can be very flirtatious and a large number know EXACTLY how to seduce a man and lead him on. I was largely like this because I was afraid of becoming too close to anyone - commitment scared me, but I received a diagnosis of BPD.

My brother's ex (now my friend's current gf :O) is a dx HPD, and ashamed as I am to say it, her behaviour is almost clone like when compared to mine a few years ago. Could I have been misdiagnosed, or are there just distinct similarities between the two diseases? Is it possible to have both? Which one (in your opinion, of course, not on a medical level ha) is worse?

Obviously not a doctor, but... yes, HPD and BPD are very similar and it's possible to qualify for both at the same time.

My therapist, who knows my ex gf, said that she had the symptoms of three: borderline, narcissism and histrionic. I saw her borderline when she stalked me, her histrionic in her constant seeking for attention in public and her narcissism when she displayed an amazing lack of empathy during a hard time in my life.

I have learned that it ain't called "cluster b" for nothing.

Good God Harrison. My deepest sympathies go out to you - the misfortune in happening to meet such a person!

Really scary, care to share how you got out of there? Also if you don't mind too much, could you give us a few examples of bad situations you had or odd behaviours/logic that she employed?

First, had I know what histrionic behavior was, then I would have seen things differently at first. However, not long after we started dating, she had the tendency to interrupt in conversations all the time. I thought was a bad habit leftover from her marriage. Didn't know it was a symptom. She had these impressionistic gestures which I attributed to her being an artist. She spoke dramatically too which I thought was part of being an artist. I thought it eccentric and not strange. I did notice when we were out in public, she was louder than the rest, seemed to greet old friends very loudly, and loved it when people were compliment her on her hair or she would see old students. I thought all of this was harmless. She did seem a mite shallow, but seemed eager to listen and seemingly had a heart of gold. She would also call me constantly and I mean constantly. She dressed stylishly and she had a preoccupation with her appearance. She also dressed inapprorpiately for a 52 year old grandmother, particularly on the tennis court. On the dance floor, she just would go wild with attention seeking, even though she and I would be among the oldest on the floor.

Her narcissism showed up when I went through a terrible crisis of losing a very good paying job with a daughter in college and she was not there for me to the point where family and friends noticed and became concerned about this person really was. In fact I had a close friend call me after he had conversed with her about my well being and he was shocked and her lack of concern. Indeed, even though I was jobless and she had a good job, when we went out, I was still paying for everything. And then when she got a free trip to visit museums in DC, she got upset with me when I couldn't go with her, even though I was jobless and was trying to figure out my next move.

And this led to my making the decision to end the relationship. I had visisted with my therapist who knew her and he told me the bad news about hpd and that it has narcissistic qualities attached to it. I was floored but then upon reflection realized the truth of it all. I was sick, but I cowboyed up and made the decision to end it. This led into all kinds of stalking and I mean real stalking, stalking for which I could have had her arrested. This was the borderline part of her disorder. The whole abandonment thing.

After that, it was all stupidity on my part and you can find the story elsewhere, but eventually she reconquered me, then devalued and discarded me in a cold fashion which I now think was the antisocial part of her.

So there you are.

Yes, you could have been misdiagnosed as BPD. It's probably quite rare to get a HPD diagnosis.

Or you could have had co-occuring HPD with BPD dominant.

So I'm speaking of the HPD woman here (as I have limited experience knowing HPD men).

I don't believe HPD and BPD are *very* similar. They're similar to do with manipulating people and their lack of empathy, due to their severe identity issues. But HPDs come across far more accomodating, eager to please others (they can be over the top with their card sending and gift-giving, for example). BPDs can be charming, but many come across more normal, less shallow, and not as eager to please others, I guess is the way to put it.

HPD women are not like regular women, let's make this perfectly clear. HPD women take on the quintessential female characteristics and amp them up as if those characteristics were on steroids (so, unfortunately, they truly can set up traps for men because of this).

HPD women have to be the center of attention (this distinguishes them from BPD). And from my experience there are two types--the loud, effervenscent HPD and the quiet passive-aggressive HPD. Each have their own methods for gaining center stage and manipulating. The loud ones are far easier to spot.

So, HPDs seem far more shallow than BPDs (from my experience). When they speak, it sometimes makes no sense because they're so vague. They express themselves with superficial (and sometimes quite over the top) emotion that is not appropriate to the circumstance and they're completely unaware that their behavior is odd.

The female HPD often defers to the man as if it's 1952 (or 1852!). Their sole extistance is to get attention, negative or positive from anyone, but especially from *men*.

But they can also take on this "I'm a strong woman" role, if it suits them in the moment. They vacillate. They have no core identity, after all.

HPDs will try to steal a friend or boyfriend from you. They're very competitive this way. They want to take away from you what is rightfully theirs (in their minds) or just take away from you--because they win by you losing. Inter-relating is a game and they have to win at all costs.

Many times they will be obsessed with their physical appearance (in order to steal boyfriends they have to be looking their very best, after all). They will latch on to an ideal from a magazine or somewhere of what is "perfect" and they will try to fit into that role.

They tend to be overly-complimentary and the the loud type tend to be overly "sunny" in their expression, so that they appear phony to most people. Shallow and insincere. I don't think BPDs come across that way.

Many HPD women like to play "the helpless little girl" role (help me decide, help me cross the street, help me button my coat). They will act stupid, play dumb and fawn over men (who they want to manipulate). They can turn this on and off. It's a means to an end. I'm not sure if BPD women do this.

In my opinion, the root feelings of BPDs and HPDs are extremely similar, if not the same. The difference comes in the defense mechanisms used to deal with those feelings. BPDs tend to be more introspective, and know something is wrong with them on a fundamental level. HPDs are the ones that successfully run from that awareness.

To describe a HPD to a BPD, I think the best way would be to ask you to think of the most manic mood you've ever been in. The kind of mood where you know the rules don't apply to you. You're wonderful, and everyone should love you. With the BPD, such a mood doesn't last long. With HPD, that's the feeling they fight tooth and claw to stay in.

From my experience I agree that at the core they are similar (no core), as they both rage, are callous, lack empathy, flee from their pain, are manipulate people and many other attributes. And I agree that HPDs do try to stay in that idealization (manic) mode of expression where BPDs do fluctuate more in their devaluation/idealization. That's very true.

However I have not found BPDs to be more introspective--AT ALL. They can project this image if it suits them but they are actually equally as superficial as the HPD (this is based on my close encouters of the PD variety).

They don't want to "go there" just like the HPD. They really don't. They express shame (from their childhood) which can seem like and be confused with self-reflection or anguish/guilt for something they did in the present moment. But it's not revelant to their present day actions or true reflection or realization of harm they may have caused you. It's fleeting. For most, you don't register on their radar. It's all about them and what you've done to them, after all. It is very important for them to perceive themselves as a victim. If they reflected at all then they would realize that they are indeed perpetrators. That doesn't happen. They may express hollow apologies and empty promises but these are not genuine. It is a means to an end so that you will not leave them (they have a fear of abandonment, after all).

I have heard that some BPDs do have empathy (I have never encountered them personally). So you may be correct that for those few they may have the capacity for introspection. But for the vast majority of BPDs (without empathy), they don't go there. They fear going there. They have major anxiety because they can't go there. They kill themselves so they don't have to go there.

I get the feeling that we're talking about 2 different things here. I'm talking about an awareness of self, as the Borderline is unable to escape her feelings for long periods of time. Among other things, this leads significantly more borderlines to seek counseling and is one of the reasons I believe there are so many on the BPD board while Histrionics tend not to show up here or anywhere else looking for help. This is also the big reason that BPD is more treatable then HPD. I wasn't talking about interactions with other people at all with that statement.