Don't Go Back for More

After all I have read here, if there is one thing that is clear in an HPD relationship, once it is broken off DON'T GO BACK. They are sirens. They sing the song that lures us back thinking everything is OK again.

On another thread I likened it to the Ulysses (Odysseus) fable by Homer (from Greek mythology, not the Simpsons) where Ulysses sails past an island with sirens trying to entice him to land there when there are dangerous rocks that will sink his ship. He had himself tied to the mast by the crew so he could not fall for their enticement, and had his crew put wax in their ears so they would not hear the sirens' song.

The fable is the subject of Steely Dan's song "Home at Last" a title I think describes how we feel when we first get to know the HPD. At least it did for me. But the song kind of captures the break up dangers with an HPD. The lyrics are as follows:

I know this super highway
This bright familiar sun
I guess that I'm the lucky one
Who wrote that tired sea song
Set on this peaceful shore
You think you've heard this one before

Well the danger on the rocks is surely past
Still I remain tied to the mast
Could it be that I have found my home at last
Home at last

She serves the smooth retsina
She keeps me safe and warm
It's just the calm before the storm
Call in my reservation
So long hey thanks my friend
I guess I'll try my luck again

Well the danger on the rocks is surely past
Still I remain tied to the mast
Could it be that I have found my home at last
Home at last

Thanks for the reminder. As someone in recovery, I have these spasms of memory jump up and grab me every now and then. But these memories always seem to center around the "honeymoon" stage, when she was the "ideal" woman and I thought everything was going to be great. I suspect it is those memories of the early times, and the concomitant attention which probably causes most people to break no contact, more than anything else.

Those memories have to be balanced with the bad memories. The flirtations and the manipulations. Remembering the symptoms such as constant interruptions, or the flirtations with other men, or the constant mentioning of some new man and the stalking.

I am amazed at how similar the stories are, as if these people are genetically programmed to act out the same way. But what we have to keep in mind is that it is all an illusion. We fell in love with a fraud. Damn, that is hard for me to admit and even get my head around. But the final chapter with my ex was so full of coldness that I realized what a fraud she was.

Today I heard a story about when she separated from her husband some years back. They lived in a small town and attended the same church. After the separation, the hp and her college age son were living in the marital home. The husband had moved out. She wanted the divorce.

Not long after and one Sunday morning, the husband was at church where he had been a very active member. Before the service, he was down front visiting with some people. Meanwhile, the hp and her son had come into church and taken seats in a pew. She was staring straight ahead as was the son. The husband finished visiting and was walking up the aisle when he saw her and his son. Both of them were staring straight ahead and neither made eye contact with him, nor acknowledged him in any way.

An observer who saw the whole thing said the husband just froze and when they shunned him, especially his son, he almost started crying. The husband then collected himself and walked out of the church at that moment and never returned. He found another church.

The observer told me it was one of the coldest, most heartless things she had ever observed. I too found myself on the receiving end of that coldness. Of course, the hp had to "win". She had to show that she could show up in their church and drive him away. She had to show her husband and the father that she had "won" over the son against him.

They have to win, folks. They have to win you over; and then they have to win be eventually dropping you.

These are heartless and cold people.

harrison56 wrote:Those memories have to be balanced with the bad memories. The flirtations and the manipulations. Remembering the symptoms such as constant interruptions, or the flirtations with other men, or the constant mentioning of some new man and the stalking.

Your absolutely right, these are some of the most cold hearted people who roam the planet. They just don't have the tools of love and empathy

This is good insight and I believe it can be a key component in recovery. We all go through withdrawls from the aftermath and in our pain we often can slide and remember only the honeymoon type moments. It is an important self-exercise to also get oneself to remember all the lying, manipulations, deceit, cheating, and blameshifting that was done upon you. Nothing about them was real except the emotional abuse.

I remember early on in my recovery one thing that really helped to dispel the honeymoon feelings was to log onto this board and just read the countless stories. It alwaqys helped to ground me and get me back on a healthier track.

That is why long after the HPD has been gone what I remember most is this board and the many good souls who helped me through such a dark time

I have dealt with a stone cold narcissist. And I have dealt with my ex gf, the histrionic. I believe the histrionic is much more lethal because she is a warm and bubbly narcissist. They fool you and they fool you good. If the person with npd is ice; the histrionic is fire, but both are self centered to the core.

Today was a hard day for me because I happened to visit some old haunts ( job related) where the ex gf and I spent some very happy times. I thought she was it. I had come out of a bad marriage and I was having fun with this woman who seemed so crazy about me and I about her. At the time, I couldn't believe my luck and thought that the Universe was paying me back in a good way.

Oops.

As I sat there and remembered those times, I balanced them with her eventual stalking and the cold way she treated me at the end. It reminded me why so many people have such a hard time getting their head around this disorder. How could someone who, at first, seemed so light hearted and loving turn out to be so heartless? And of course, what happens is that most victims tend to blame themselves at first, helped on by the manipulations of these people.

Let me say that these people can be absolutely cruel. That is the word for them: cruel. Happy go lucky people who only covertly bear an icy cold streak and are self centered and manipulative. And they MUST WIN.

As long as you are a doormat and keep giving to them emotionally, then everything will be just fine. But when you want, nay, need something back, they may throw you a bone. And if you then press too much, they will then start their manipulations, mentioning other men. You know, to keep you in line.

Frankly, it is a wonder that they don't suffer more violence. The manipulations that they engage in could drive some undisciplined people to fall back on primal instincts. I am serious when I say that.

Thus, my friends, it is IMPERATIVE to maintain no contact. As I have progressed through recovery I have found so much anger and I want to go over and give her a piece of my mind. That lasts about three seconds.

Then I remember the mantra that is pounded by experienced hands on this forum: no contact; no contact; no contact.

NO CONTACT.

If you go back or contact them to give them a piece of your mind, then I know this is what can potentially happen:

A. You give them the attention that they absolutely love. Even negative attention. They win.

B. If things disintegrate, there could be violence which means that the HP gets to call the cops and then you get arrested and charged. They win.

C. You get to go to court and are hugely embarrassed. The HP has WON again over you, this time with a public spectacle and criminal charges and penalties.

D. To violate no contact means you have been drawn back into their dramatic game. They win.

In short, TO CONTACT THEM MEANS THEY HAVE AGAIN WON.

In my short experience at this and for you newcomers, heed the phrase: No Contact. It is the only way YOU WILL WIN against a histrionic.

Well, I have been tempted to go back on multiple occasions over the last 3 and a half years, but maintain and have to agree that the only realistic solution that I completely stand by is **** NO CONTACT****. The thing that has changed with time and distance from that relationship are my reasons for wanting to go back. At first it would have been for that mesmerising look she used to give me with her huge Khaki colored eyes, those soft caresses, those succulent kisses and that tenderness and feeling of being one that I felt so strongly when we made love. She conquered my heart so very well, and I was convinced she would never betray me, our love seemed too strong and unique for that (no fool like an old fool ehhh... ). But it was a repeating and cyclic RELATIONSHIP facade. She found out exactly what made me tick and gave it in just the right doses, whilst taking a mental note of all my strengths and weaknesses. My strengths she took and used for herself, my weaknesses she exacerbated by creating doubt and using ambiguity. This was the beginning of her controlling me, as she has done others, I was in her web.

I was aware of her past, of the others, I directly witnessed a nice young guys aftermath as she dumped him for me (and he pleaded with me to let her go as he was in love, and I threatened him if he did not leave, and she loved it...), so I was fore warned; yet still stupid enough to believe in her. I was naive (probably as I had never been exposed to a hpd'd person before...) to believe she was "the one" for me, "I the one for her". But she did betray me, her relationship cycle repeated itself, she applogized, she betrayed, she appolgized (and allegedly claimed that she had learned her lesson and changed... ) and betrayed, and betrayed, and betrayed... A year after I ended the relationship, heart broken, I wanted revenge for her behaviour, i wanted to go back and play her game now that the cards were on the table, now that I had torn down her mask, now that she had revealed her true self, the destructive little fraud that wanted me sleeping in a cardboard box; so an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth I felt. As I believe i said in another post a long time ago, it was the first time in my life I regretted being hetero sexual. To get my revenge, If I had been homosexual, I could have spat in his/her face and knocked his/her head off his/her shoulders. I could have fought out my pain with him/her rather than having to keep it inside like a shaken champagne bottle ready to explode. I wanted her to hurt as bad as I did, and as emotional hurt seemed like water off a ducks back with her, physical seemed the only way to obtain satisfaction. But hitting a woman, no matter what she did is not in my education, i could never do that. In addition I knew that she would relish the attention, and also that she would have ended up sitting back and enjoying the show as her entourage went to her defense, and i lost my family, my job and god knows what else (my sanity?). I excercised self control and worked out to calm the anger and the frustration. It saved me, it saved my family, it saved my job, and it saved her! Then comes the most recent phase, which was justice. I wanted to go back to her for justice, but again I managed my feelings with *NO CONTACT*. Once your usually wiggly but Labrador has bitten your finger off, you won't go back and ask it why (well you might but...). However, i could not forgive and forget all the horrid, callous treatment; and the shrewd, calculated methods which she used to deliver the blows for maximum effect to hurt. I have avoided her like the plague at work last few years, even changed jobs to be in another building, but I bump into her from time to time only to be reminded that she really does exist, that this all really did happen in my life, that it was not a bad dream. Her physical presence, makes it hard to forget, and I still get frigthened on the occasions when she follows me in the car. That I discover that she attended a dinner (at least one) with my therapist (now X...), shakes me, because like all good HPD there is insinuation of harrassment without hard evidence, and as they are so good at hiding their track whilst cultivating ambiguity, you shall be baffled, whats true, whats false, whats my imagination? How to differentiate harrassment from coincidence without catching her red handed. How to believe still that the sweetest, warmest looking girl I had ever known, or loved, can be such a cruel monster under that pretty dress, those sparkling eyes, that toothy smile. A Pitbull in a Poodle. That same girl had smeered my reputation, Kicked me whilst I was down, and held me in her arms whilst brandishing a 12 inch emotional knife between my shouldder blades that she used on me without mercy. I can't ever forgive that! Why should I?

I know through her cunning little actions that I become indirectly aware of, that she did not get away free. I know my indifference to her inflames her curiosity, and injures and tortures her ego. It's a fight for me, but I am strong, tanned, happy looking, busy in my professional and personal life, and nothing she can see when she sees me shows the deeply injured man that she left behind. I am of course still deeply injured, and I am not convinced I shall ever fully recover, but my justice is my (apparent) indifference to her existence as an excuse for a human being. She can't handle that, and she can't handle not to get away with what she did. With many others i was aware of, she did, and I am sure she is still growing her collection of puppets. But what goes around comes around, and i am convinced life shall dish her a full plate of her own treatment one of these days. I would hope that she will learn from it, and love people back properly after, but I doubt that she will or shall.

So in short no contact, no contact, NO CONTACT! You win because;

1) NO CONTACT - They don't get to know what is going on in your life - YOU WIN - HPDs beat cats for curisoity any day, they hate being on the receiving end of mystery, they hate not knowing where the other is, what the other is thinking and feeling; they shall be tortured not knowing what you are upto nor with whom. Don't be surprised if you searched out and followed on days of spleen.
2) NO CONTACT - Your indifference is proof to them that they meant absolutely nothing to you, therefore they confirm to themselves that they a worthless excuse for a human being - YOU WIN - They want to be everything to everyone all the time. Even if its bad attention they want attention. Your Indifference equals their insignificance. Insignificance equals lack of validation.
3) NO CONTACT - They like to have as many reserve X's as possible, X's are better than friends, if they are feeling sorry for themselves, its intimate contact straight off, they are in your arms, immediate comfort, immediate gratification (for them). You refuse them such an ambiguous relationship through no contact - YOU WIN - You won't have to suffer their childish whinings and manipulations. They shall have to turn to another puppet or whine in their own corner (boo hoo... )
4) NO CONTACT - She may see you out with a pretty girl, or even just with friends having such a good time, out for a drink, doing sports, but whatever, you look and feel great, and .... - YOU WIN - How can you possibly be having a good time when she is not there (ouch... ). She had thought that she deprived you of your rights to a happy life the day your relationship with her ended. She thought she was "SPECIAL". She shall be gutted.

Best regards, Musician

Musician, great post. And you and I are in similar circumstances since my ex gf lives one mile from me. I have avoided even driving down her street though it is a shortcut. I will not give her the satisfaction of seeing my car in front of her house. And yes, they still do search you out. One month after it all came to a head and she ended our relationship with a curt text, she was actually running near my home at about five, the time I get off work.

Because I was in love with her, I had to find everything I could about hpd. And so I know her so much better than she knows herself and will ever know herself. On a more clinical note, I am pretty convinced that she is acting out on an unconscious level most of the time. I am also convinced from reading the threads that many hpd's act out consciously a good bit of the time. That is, they are aware of what they are doing, but just don't give a damn.

This board has been a life saver for me. Like others I have returned and returned to keep grounded in the reality of it all. My ex gf is so into herself, constantly. Once you step back and look it is amazing to see it. I am also sure that the cluster b rating applies to her. She has all four, narcissism, histrionic, borderline and antisocial running through her personality. The therapist indicated she had three, narcissism, histrionic and borderline, but my experience also suggests that when it is called for, she can be as cold as ice, taking NO responsibility for her actions, always the victim, symptomatic of the antisocial.

In short on the continuum she is on the end. On my best days I can feel a little sorry for her. On my worst days, I deal with my anger at her and at myself for having wasted four years of my precious life with her. Most of my anger rests on the fact that I thought I was special to her but know that she is trotting out the same dog and pony show to her newest boyfriend. And that really does hurt deeply. That kind of deceptive betrayal hurts very deeply. As long as I was strong in my supply, things were fine. But when I wore down, then it changed.

Of course I know exactly what is going on with her and her new boyfriend. She is playing the victim with him, telling him how cruelly she has been treated by her ex husband and her ex boyfriend. But as the therapist noted, histrionics are past masters at creating drama and igniting anger in their partner. Then, she can turn around and be the victim and not take any responsibility.

They cannot handle the truth. Thus, I think those people who claim to be hpds and visit this site and show some awareness are not at the end of the continuum. My ex gf is truly disordered and has NO insight into her behavior. She is at the end of the continuum. She is not going to allow any negative stuff about her break into her consciousness. Never has and never will. That means, of course, she will never learn and will continue the cycle and never have the relationship she desires. So in that regard, she is to be pitied.

nuffalready wrote:The fable is the subject of Steely Dan's song "Home at Last" a title I think describes how we feel when we first get to know the HPD. At least it did for me. But the song kind of captures the break up dangers with an HPD.

Since you mention songs and HPD - Hotel California by the Eagles was meant to be a social comment on "the dark underbelly of the American dream and about excess in America" but from the lyrics, it could easily be a literal description of a relationship with an HPD woman.

There she stood in the doorway;
I heard the mission bell
And I was thinking to myself,
"This could be heaven or this could be hell"

Her mind is tiffany-twisted, she got the mercedes bends
She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys, that she calls friends
How they dance in the courtyard, sweet summer sweat.
Some dance to remember, some dance to forget

And last but not least:

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
"Relax," said the night man,
We are programmed to receive.
You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!

Edit: Oh, and as for Musician's 4-point plan, agreed 100%. Be sure to follow all 4 points in that order.

Hi all:
Two great songs from two great groups. I have both albums in my CD collection. However, speaking of the Eagles, my X
discovered them with me (my being 13 years her senior). We used to go cruising down to the lake, or over to the mountains,
and the Eagles Albums were always on our CD player. Such great songs do drive with. . However, my X identified herself directly with the following song, which one evening when we broke off, she had me set to play over and over while we made love. She sobbed and orgasmed and what not for hours, and the whole thing "seemed" very emotional at the time, she seemed in despair, but now that I know about HPD, I realise that there was probably much over acting involved. Well here we go, and here it is, and a great song all the same:

The Eagles - Wasted Time (From Hotel California)

"Well baby, there you stand
With your little head, down in your hand
Oh, my god, you can't believe it's happening Again
Your baby's gone, and you're all alone
And it looks like the end.

And you're back out on the street.
And you're tryin to remember.
How will you start it over?
You don't know what became.
You don't care much for a stranger's touch,
But you can't hold your man.

You never thought you'd be alone this far
Down the line
And I know what's been on your mind
You're afraid it's all been wasted time

The autumn leaves have got you thinking
About the first time that you fell
You didn't love the boy too much, no, no
You just loved the boy to well, farewell
So you live from day to day, and you dream
About tomorrow, oh.
And the hours go by like minutes
And the shadows come to stay
So you take a little something to,
Make them go away
And I could have done so many things, baby
If I could only stop my mind from wondrin what
I left behind and from worrying about this wasted time

Ooh, another love has come and gone
Ooh, and the years keep rushing on
I remember what you told me before you went out on your own:
sometimes to keep it together, we got to leave it alone.
So you can get on with your search, baby, and I can
Get on with mine
And maybe someday we will find , that it wasn't really
Wasted time
Mm,hm
Oh hoo, ooh, ohh,
Ooh,ooh, mm"

Hi Harrison:
My X lives less than a mile from me. I also run like your X, but like you, I keep out of her way. That said I don't want to be constrained to keep away from that side of town if I need to go that way. That would give her power over me, and i don't want her to have any.

Take Care Musician.

Let me add my 2 cents worth here. I too was lured back into the HPD's world. After being accused of "stalking" the HPD in my life and waiting out a Personal Protection Order she took out on me, I tried to get even by sending her and her NPD husband letters. This resulted in yet another PPO. Being the type of person I am, and being unwilling to back away from a fight, I took the matter to court. Her testimony consisted of half truths, exaggerations and lies. She had the judge eating out of her hand. All this did was give her more attention, and thus feed more into her delusional life. I've occasionally been tempted to contact her again, but remembering the trials and tribulations she caused prevents me from making that ill advised move. NO CONTACT IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

All great answers regarding No Contact. Near the end of my relationship, I also saw doing it would be the most humane route

When I realized she had HPD, it didn't stop me from having loving feelings for her (or more precise who she purpoted to be) even though I left her. I was angry, saddened, and annoyed plenty of times, which is normal when someone abuses you to such an alarming degree. I was heartbroken with the fact that she would never be what she presented for sure...However, what made me decide to leave and never look back was when I realized she just didn't have the tools to stop hurting me, and thus leaving was really the most loving thing to do. Leaving was no picnic and not seeing her kids equally was a blow, but I sadly discovered that staying was actually more harmful, so I had to pick the lesser of two evils and left. What horrible options to be left with and that is why that Linkin Park song resonates so much with me.

Like the last two lines of my signature so aptly states:

"Sometimes solutions aren't so simple
Sometimes good bye's the only away"
~Linkin Park