Fill in the blank statements !

Balderdash wrote:One one hand, you're talking about how much fun you'll have with others, while on the other hand you're saying that you'd have less fun if someone was there.

This is true, but doesn't apply in this context. She wasn't saying "I'd have fun with my friend", she'd already invited me and then said what amounted to "my friend and I would have more fun if you weren't there".

Not only can that give the negative impression that she didn't want your company, but as in this particular case she didn't it could have also hit a guilt complex because she thought she should want your company.

Yep, got it. She actually *didn't* want me there. I had no problem with this, I enjoy having 'guy time' with my friends too. I was just trying to get her to be more open (with me and herself) about about what she wants, with the eventual aim of her better understanding what she wants herself. I tried to explain this to her but she wouldn't listen. Oh well.

The fact that she's unhappy about something is obvious. It may be something about you she's unhappy with, or she may just believe that you're a safe target to vent on for things that are getting to her outside of your relationship. Either way, it's inappropriate. I'd consider this a boundary issue, and handle it appropriately.

Yeah, the question is what? And the answer, I'm pretty sure, is just that she's lost control of me. I've done the easygoing nice-guy partner thing for a long time and she's probably mistaken "patient and supportive" for "doormat". Now that she's finally exhausted my patience (yes, it is possible ), she's finding me a lot less responsive to her manipulation attempts, and much more rigid with personal boundaries. I'm even saying "no" to her occasionally! It's freaking her out and she's trying to cut me down to a size so I'll submit again. I've started gently hinting that maybe that's not the most respectful way to talk to her partner, if she keeps going I'll gradually get less restrained about it.

May I suggest a good spanking the next time she does it, followed up with an explanation of some appropriate ways to let you know she's unhappy about something?

Hahah nice, a spanking's always worth a try.

This actually reminds me of an argument I had with my friend a while back.

I believe I mentioned before that he's in a different state then me right now, but we still visit each other when we can, and keep in touch. He always makes it a point to show me a good time whenever I visit him in LA, but he's also picked up a few bad habits with his girl friend. Long story short, we got into a disagreement about something, and after loosing the argument he wanted to sulk (fine), but then he decided to directly insult me. Now, you can tease me. That's fine. You can pick on me at times and it's all good. Directly insult me though, and it's on.

I immediately went on the attack, and so did he. Our styles are similar because I learned most of what I know about hard core arguing from him. No defense, no prisoners, and this argument lasted the entire car ride home, up to his apartment, and then into his room because he didn't want to fight in front of his gf. (she could hear everything anyways, but whatever) We were going hammer and tongs at each other for a while, but the difference was, while he was attacking me for making a fuss over what he was doing, all my attacks were against what he did. Eventually, he started looking uncertain, and went from attacking me to defending himself. Not his actions, but himself, despite the fact that I never said one bad thing about him. This is when I knew I'd won my point.

I pulled him to me in a man hug, and told him that I loved him like a brother, but I can't let him do things like that to me. We talked about inconsequential stuff for a bit, reaffirming for him that the argument didn't have any effect on our friendship, then we went back to the living room with his gf and never talked about it again. We watched tv for a bit, messed with the computer, and talked about what we were doing for the next day. It was like the argument had never happened. Despite that, the boundaries were maintained, and I can't think of a single time he's tried to insult me since then.

I think his gf needs to learn new methods of arguing though. sheesh! My friend's been trying to convince me to more to LA with him for a while, and I might do it. If I do though, I am not looking forward to fixing all the bad habits that he picked up...

Balderdash wrote:I immediately went on the attack, and so did he. Our styles are similar because I learned most of what I know about hard core arguing from him. No defense, no prisoners, and this argument lasted the entire car ride home, up to his apartment, and then into his room because he didn't want to fight in front of his gf. (she could hear everything anyways, but whatever) We were going hammer and tongs at each other for a while, but the difference was, while he was attacking me for making a fuss over what he was doing, all my attacks were against what he did. Eventually, he started looking uncertain, and went from attacking me to defending himself. Not his actions, but himself, despite the fact that I never said one bad thing about him. This is when I knew I'd won my point.

I pulled him to me in a man hug, and told him that I loved him like a brother, but I can't let him do things like that to me. We talked about inconsequential stuff for a bit, reaffirming for him that the argument didn't have any effect on our friendship, then we went back to the living room with his gf and never talked about it again. We watched tv for a bit, messed with the computer, and talked about what we were doing for the next day. It was like the argument had never happened. Despite that, the boundaries were maintained, and I can't think of a single time he's tried to insult me since then.

This was awesome. I'm taking notes.

That said, most of our arguments are her trying to force me to agree with her point of view, or her trying to prove that I'm wrong and she's right, rather than her outright attacking me. Any attacks on my self-esteem are done 'jokingly', if they were less frequent or less pointed I'd probably discount it as genuine if somewhat petty joking, but three "haha it's so small" comments in the same week each within a short time of me resisting a manipulation attempt? She's very good at some types of manipulation (mostly guilting and manoeuvring) but this stuff is painfully clumsy and obvious. As I get better at not reacting to her jabs and guilt trips, most arguments turn into me watching while she just kind of circles herself into a funk, then trying to soothe and reassure her afterwards.

I'm probably making it sound like it's one constant battle. There are many good bits in between, we just have times where it feels like she has to control me, and either I buckle under or she panics.

Ah, I never worry much about who's right. As long as everything gets done I see no need to sweat the small stuff.

As for the jokes, next time she claims your dong is small, just tell her no, she's just getting fat, and see what she does. If she wants to diss you, feel free to diss her back when it starts to get old. If you do it right, you can turn it into a play fight, and both probably get a lot more enjoyment out of it. Feel free to wave your arms about and get dramatic when you're getting your jabs in. Also, don't worry about accuracy. The bigger the whopper, the better. I find it helps to keep the mood light.

Oh, and don't worry so much about winning these ones. You've already won by making the whole thing a game. Let her have her fun as long as it's within bounds.

As always, your fresh viewpoint is appreciated. I tend not to joke around negatively like that - some things can be hurtful no matter the context in which you say them, and I've always felt that if I truly care about someone then I want to make them feel good, not bad. I can see your approach working, though - in fact I shall try it next time the situation arises and let you know how it goes. And like you say, picking on something like "well you're so fat!" (when she isn't and she knows it) and exaggerating it to cartoon proportions is more likely to pull it from "joking but don't feel good about yourself" to a real "just joking".

Well, this goes back to what I said before about how HPDs need conflict. If you can't give them ways to achieve conflict then they'll find their own. The thing to remember though, is play fights are in many ways learned behavior. This means that when you tell your wife she's getting fat, she's probably not going to know quite how to respond the first time. This is also new territory for you, so I strongly suspect your first time will fizzle. That's ok. The important thing is to be attentive to your partner, and if she can't come away smiling, at least have her come away puzzled. That way she'll put some thought into it, and have some new things to try next time you make a sally.

Three other things I want to mention. The first two are to make sure to change up what you're arguing about regularly, and to start small and build.

Changing up your attacks are vital if you don't want the place you hit to become a sensitive spot. After all, if you keep harping of it, there must be a reason, right? Constantly circling back to a topic is a good way to gradually change behaviors you don't like, but it also cuts down on their enjoyment of the fight, as the issue starts to become something they don't like about themselves. Along the same line, arguing about particular actions, or, even other people, is inherently less sensitive then then arguing about something inherent. After all, those are things that they can place outside of themselves and rationalize, "even though this thing or action is bad, I'm a good person."

As far as starting small and building goes, that's part of drawing them into the argument. If your first statement is something obviously outrageous, the most likely response is them looking at you like you're stupid. If you start with a statement that sounds reasonable though, then they're much more likely to bite, and you build as their need to "win" comes more and more to the fore.

As an example, there was a point in time that me and my friend would get into fights regularly on who owed what on the dinner bill. These would often become long and intense arguments as each person tried to convince the other that they really owed that much. In one particular argument, I even used the big bang theory to explain how my friend was wrong... Don't ask me how. It made sense at the time. Either way, the waiters loved us cause we'd constantly be leaving $20 tips on the table just because neither one of us would back down on how much the other owed. Looking back, those were fun times... Expensive mind you, but fun.

The last thing is, if she hits a sensitive spot with you, you need to be willing to hit a sensitive spot with her. I know what you're saying about the whole "feel good, not bad" approach, but like I said when we first started talking, the way you seem to want to do it just ends up hurting her more. One reason I suggested the "getting fat" approach to her actions is because I figured it was a relatively secure aria, that could easily become sensitive. Much like her penis jokes. Learning how to have fun fights is important, but so is making it clear when she's moving into areas she shouldn't. If you don't, she's just going to associate making penis jokes with getting into a fun little fight. These "soft boundaries", if you will, will be tested more often then hard boundaries because it's a way to ramp up the feeling of conflict in a relatively safe manner, but without them, she'll just keep hitting the sensitive spot because she understands that it's the quickest way to get what she wants.

Lord! Some of these make me wonder if some of my co-fiancee/boyfriend/victims aren't posting! Lol.


1."why don't you ever listen?" After I'd just told her (one the phone) I'm grossed at 80,000lbs and its L.A. rush hour

2. "What the f**ck are you asking that for!!?" After I'd asked who she was with

3. "Am I the love of your life?" .. I once thought so.. But she was always trying to upstage the ghost of my last/first deep love.

4. "Oh, you know.. It would create problems right now for us to be openly engaged"
Granted, the 'secret' relationship is relationbullsh**. And a major clue to me

5. " I'm just hanging out with some friends". And when I asked "who".. see number 2. (I'd already busted her for cheating, and was waiting for her 'arrival' to prove her sincerity.

6. "You are so pigheaded! Why don't you trust me?" Possibly because of the photos? Texts I read? The date you made on the day I dumped you? With (I'm tired of being lonely" as her reason to him)

... ok the last was specific but ya gotta hand it too them. If one respected audacious gall they'd revere the HPD