Pathetic anger venting on people seeking help!!!

I think its a tad far-fetched to call me a monster. A little unneccessary don't you think? I wouldn't contemplate calling names, i came on this forum to learn more about myself and hpd and i guess (in your opinions) about the 'devestating consequences' of our actions.

I am not a spokesperson for women with hpd nor am i the average hpd, we all have different aspects of the personality traits. i am happy to speak openly about my personal battles and how i believe hpd affects me to HELP people who have been betrayed by hpd women. I am not on here to piss you all off and then get attacked.

Besides some of you i think need professional help, i can't believe how torn up some of you are about someone with a disorder. HELLO?!!!! is it just me or does disorder not suggest that they have undesirable traits they can not be held responisble for? Either help them or move on, no need to demonise these women...I'm sure there were signs in the beginning which suggested they weren't right for you, in future you will not ignore those signs. Take the positive out of your bad experiences, work out what you did wrong and how you managed to allow it to happen and never let it happen again. No point being angry or blaming all hpd women. Learn from the one you devoted yourself too, the one you allowed to hurt you, the one who you gave your heart ....not all HPDs. attack the woman you let take you for a ride not me!

crazy,

I hope you stick around. I am sorry others have attacked you, and you are not a monster.

As far as professional help -- I do think that victims of those with personality disorders need to seek some therapy, mainly so that they can heal. There is so much hurt, anger, bitterness, and despair on these forums from victims. But being in relationships with those that have PDs are so emotionally draining and so hurtful. It leaves lasting scars.

I hope you can give some understanding from the other side. It's my belief that those with PDs also suffer inside but are loathe to discuss it. (Not counting ASPDs, different story, don't want to elaborate here.. but I had to give that caveat or someone will come along and say, "What about....") Actually, it's a shame that I feel I have to clarify every statement. I too think I will be attacked, lol.

I'm waiting for someone to come along and accuse ME of a PD because I differ with some of the statements here. But that's okay.

In the end, we are all here (yes, including HPDs!) for some understanding, for someone to listen.

Good luck!

crazysexycool wrote:I am not a spokesperson for women with hpd nor am i the average hpd,

hmm, don't bet on it.

crazysexycool wrote:how i believe hpd affects me to HELP people who have been betrayed by hpd women.

ok, I'm listening.

crazysexycool wrote:HELLO?!!!! is it just me or does disorder not suggest that they have undesirable traits they can not be held responisble for?

Pulhease! Say you're not serious with this statement.

crazysexycool wrote:Take the positive out of your bad experiences,

Yep, many do this.

crazysexycool wrote:work out what you did wrong

Excuse me, what the HPD partner did WRONG?

crazysexycool wrote:and how you managed to allow it to happen

Allowed it to happen? Don't tell me, you're being serious again, huh? Common victim blaming phenomenon happening here. Someone needs to tell you that the other person isn't actually responsible for your behaviour. You are responsible for your behaviour. Nobody else allowed you to do what you do. Many will have told you to stop, but you would have ignored those requests. You are the one who gave yourself permission to do what you do. Newsflash: When someone says, "Don't do/say that, it hurts my feelings/or it's not nice or appropriate." That is someone NOT allowing you to do something.

crazysexycool wrote:Learn from the one you devoted yourself too, the one you allowed to hurt you, the one who you gave your heart ....not all HPDs.

Is that your version of helping? If it is, then no thanks.

Hey Crazy,
Dont' try to reason with people who feed on their hurt (I am not saying people cannot FEEL hurt, just that some people cannot see PAST their hurt and feelings of betrayal). It's not going to work. Whatever you say, you will be considered another HPD manipulative monster, and if someones dares to say you may actually be right about something, it will trigger more reactions from the victims of HPD "monsters"... There are a few people on this forum who actually have enough distance to be able to give some advice but very very few...
I would say that this place serves mostly the ex-partners of people with HPD, not HPDs themselves. If you want to stay on this forum, listen to people like Ocean. And be prepared that others might and will throw stones at you not because of who you are but because you are an easy target. Besides I read a bit about the families of alcoholics, how they take their anger out on the addicts once they are sober... It is a common reaction... You admitted you have done wrong things, so now they want you to suffer for your decisions and deeds.
Actually I was deeply moved by you story, I mean the story of your first love and the hurt, how you promised to yourself you will never let anyone hurt you again... I have been there. Maybe... maybe it is all a mask? Maybe there is still this teenage girl inside, the one who felt so much love and was so open that let somebody hurt her like that? Because I think you actually were in love with him... It does sound like a first love broken... Is it this girl you are trying to protect? Sorry, but to me you don't sound like a calculating cold bitch. Correct me if I am wrong.
All the best,
TTC

crazysexycool wrote:On the plus side if you have had a hpd GF in the past and learned from it, i can assure you you know every trick in every womans book...no woman will ever be able to manipulate you again using the sme methods based on what you know.

1) This is def. a positive thing, the fact you see the tricks "normal" women play. I've been wondering these last weeks:

Being around an HPD is def. not healthy, but I think she's less to blame than a normal, conscious woman who'd play the same tricks in a more subtle way, still making you think she's a nice person.
I think men who have dealt with HPD's aren't mad at them, but mad at the fact HPD's are unconscious(?) of all the harm they have caused and they manage to act like nothing happened.

BUT: I'd rather have someone hurting me and walking away like nothing happened because she is/might be unconscious than someone who plays consciously with me and act like she's sorry, in a more convincing, believable and human way. It doesn't mean I want to have HPD's in my life tho.

==> my question: Who's more to blame: someone who hurts people unconsciounsly (according to DSM's and all those books) or someone who hurts them conscioulsy ? Most men don't see the amount of tricks "normal" women play and walk away with it.

I'm NOT standing up for HPD's, I'm trying to have people less judgemental on them.



2) I'm not even shocked after reading what CSC said, I know some people aren't good by nature or don't care about anyone but themselves, and they don't want to change because it means they'd have to make efforts and learn to care about others.
That's just the way things are.

Anyway, I appreciate your honesty CSC.

...interesting... this thread immediately took the kind of chaotic course "discussions" with my HPD always took. Emotional outbursts from all parties, random bits of personal history, a collage of controversial and provocative statements, lack of logic and direction...

CSC: You are free and more than welcome to share your life story here for everyone's interest. But your initial choice of topic suggests you wanted to communicate some message to the people posting on this forum.

What exactly is your point here? Is there something you want to know? Is there some information you want to provide? Do you want to appeal for a more careful use of language?

*Edited*

BUT: I'd rather have someone hurting me and walking away like nothing happened because she is/might be unconscious than someone who plays consciously with me and act like she's sorry, in a more convincing, believable and human way. It doesn't mean I want to have HPD's in my life tho.

==> my question: Who's more to blame: someone who hurts people unconsciounsly (according to DSM's and all those books) or someone who hurts them conscioulsy ? Most men don't see the amount of tricks "normal" women play and walk away with it.

xbi: I think we all sometimes act for hidden motives we are not entirely aware or in control of (men and women) and this includes appealing to other people's unconcious fears and desires. But there are limits to how much we normal people can deny or lie to ourselves about this practice. This is not the same for the HPD.

I prefer that there be some level of control - I know people who are manipulative, but I still know there are certain things they would never do, whereas I could see the pure malice in my HPDs eyes, unrestrained, capable of everything, a malice that was forgotten and denied the next day. Also, if you are a frank person like myself, you can confront manipulative people about their mind games - and most of the time they own up evenually, regret, and try to modify their behaviour. You can reason with them and hold them responsible. Confronting my HPD only gained me more elaborate lies at first and anger tantrums later on.

I would not want to make it a question of more or less guilt. but I prefer it i there is a way out.

I'm also a frank person, and I've been confronted to manipulative people. And I can say that people who are TRULY manipulative will do everything to avoid confrontation (including my HPD), especially when they sense the person in front of them isn't easy to fool and can back up everything he says.

We all as human beings are manipulative from time to time, but manipulative people's life is based on taking advantage of others, it is their lifestyle, they have been functioning that way for a long time and few of them are willing to change.
They consider honest, straightforward, caring and/or good intentioned people as people to take advantage of. They rarely waste their time with self-assured or raffish people, because those people are dangerous or useless to them.

My ex-HPD is a very manipulative person. She doesn't like herself, has a low self-esteem and is fooling most people making them believe she is self assured. She doesn't care about anybody, she likes to discredit people to value herself, changes her opinion and behavior depeding on people and situations. Her vision of the world is freaking twisted, she thinks people are all bad and want to break her, and so justifies her harmfull tactics as self-defense.

I honestly never have dealt with a manipulative person who can express genuine remorse, empathy and is willing to change. They can fake empathy, care, being nice or good intentioned, but deep inside they remain paranoid predators.


I'd like to know what you consider a manipulative person.

hm i refer to the kind of situation where you really catch someone red-handed. most people i met, even manipulative people, have the dignity to eventually say "yes i did that", if the evidence is impossible to refute. Maybe that does not involve true remorse, regret or the feeling of guilt, but it means at least accountability.

There are also ordinary "nice" people who manipulate when they act out of jealousy, envy, or hidden competitive or egoistic motives but cannot admit it to themselves - if you accuse them and present them with the reality of what they do and have done, they would at least take the time and think about whether there's some truth to such accusations, like any of us would if we are suddenly confronted with bitter accusations that are backed with some evidence.

But people with PDs (or at least HPD or cluster B) just cannot do that - either of it a) own up to what they do (coming up with ever more ludicrous excuses) or b) question themselves. And if you try to force them, they go baloney. That's different from the avoidance techniques your average manipulator employs, which is more calculating, rational (meaning: give in when yo00ur manipulations won't help you any further).