by Mike_The_Man » Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:30 pm
This whole thing about people with HPD having empathy and feeling geuine emotions is not, in my opinion totally accurate. All Cluster B's share some very important traits which are outlined below:
Typical Cluster B stuff: Controlling, abusive, irrational, erratic. It's all about attention. She needs to be the center of attention and does not care about anyone else. She will say or do whatever she feels like, which means whatever gets her attention. She does not like you, never did like you. You were just a source of "supply." Nothing more. Sources are people who provide admiration, attention, adulation, love, drama, and can be manipulated and controlled. It gives the Cluster B a sense of power and worth. It is their way. It is their only way. Everything else is an illusion. She conned you. Of course, as you are well aware, there were huge red flags waving savagely in front of your face and loud sirens screaming in your ears. But you did not see, nor did you hear. You were smitten. You thought you were special. She "liked" you. Well. We've all been there, so don't feel bad about being a target, and don't feel special. We've all been there. They use us, then discard us when they are done with us. They do come back, I hope you know that, to suck you dry if they can, so be prepared for it. You should run away, have no contact whatsoever with her, and learn as much as you can about these human parasites, vampires, and predators!
All Cluster Bs are addicted to attention, admiration, sex, lust, being wanted, desired, romanced, etc., known as narcissistic supply, or just supply. They are erratic and have no emotional consistency and no impulse control. They are emotional hemophiliacs. So, at any moment they can feel totally infatuated with someone, but the feeling is fake in the sense that it exists in order to get supply. Getting married is one way to get supply. Taking a partner as far as possible is part of the drama. But infatuations shift, emotions change, and newness is required in order to get supply. They DO want commitment, but it is inconsistent. They want commitment from one person, then they meet someone else who gives better, newer supply. Also, they have no impulse control, so will act without thinking simply to get supply right away. They are never sick of jumping from one person to another, just as a drug addict is never sick of getting drugs. It is how they get supply. What they get sick of is being in a relationship that is steady. That is death to them. They need change, drama, new trends, excitement, and constant attention. It must be very tiring to be constantly looking for something new.
People with cluster B personality disorder use humans as objects. They easily move from one to another just as we get a new couch. They commonly have someone in waiting; cheating and lying are reflexes for them. They are pathological liars. Yes, you were used. It was "fake" in the sense that a small child "loves" a bicycle until a new one comes along, then the bike is discarded. You were a bike. That's the way it is with them. Get used to it, or get out. No contact is the best. You're right, it's serious business to mess with someone's heart and emotions. But Cluster B's don't care. Do you care about the feelings of the objects around you? Cluster B's know you have feelings, they just don't care. They use your feelings to get what they want: attention, adoration, sex, being wanted, etc. Then you are discarded when someone else can provide better supply.
Just remember this: Cluster B's are children, manipulators who cannot regulate their emotions, they cannot relate normally, they use people as objects to satisfy their need for attention, dependency, sex, romance, and obsession, they are fakes, psychopaths, you cannot believe what they say or do because it is just role-playing to get people to respond, no one person can satisfy them, they have to play their game with many people, usually more than one at a time, they are 10 years old emotionally, they are mentally ill, they have no conscience, cannot view another person as a human being, we are just objects that supply their needs of attention, they want us to need them, they are cruel and unpredictable.
Their words are just words. They are used to get the attention, dependency, love, affection, etc. that she needs. They are manipulations. They are not true feelings; I don't think she can feel anything but immature excitement, physical pleasures, and depression. Love or affection as normal people know it are things she cannot feel, so she desperately needs to get them from others whom she then identifies with. She gets her identity by preying on others. She manipulates them into a love dependency, an obsession with her, then identifies with that to get the love she needed during childhood but did not get. Then when done, she moves on to the next victim, and we are left hanging, confused, shocked, damaged! They are not capable of mature love, they are like children who need attention and affection, so they get it however they can. It doesn't really matter to them who they get it from, in fact, one person cannot satisfy their needs, so they will continually jump from one relationship to another, often overlapping, and will dive into intimacy right away in order to get the love and obsession they want and need from others. They have little or no conscience about what they do, it is part of their nature and they consider it normal. They do not empathize with others, and therefore have little insight into how hurtful their behaviors are. These people are so cruel and hurtful. It is wrong to think of them as normal. When we remember the good times, we must also remember that they were fake. They were role playing for us to get their needs met. They need a daddy, sex, to be wanted, an obsession for them. They get their self esteem by being desired sexually. They mirror us in order to get that. It is a fix, it is their drug, to use people. Manipulation and control, domination and dependency are what they want and need. It is hard to understand.
Are they Evil? Yes and no, depends on what you mean. They know what they are doing, like a child knows. When a child yells "I hate you," is he evil? Well, he knows what he is saying, and he is feeling it, yet it is not an adult feeling of "hate," the child doesn't know what that is. The child is saying it to get his way. Now, in the same manner, people with cluster B personality disorder are like children. Their true self is so hidden that even they don't have access to it. They show us a false self, a mask, a fake persona meant to get attention, adulation, sex, dependency, etc. They act on that false self and do what they have learned will work. They don't feel remorse, though they can pretend to feel remorse if it gets them attention. They don't feel mature love, though they say they do and pretend they do in order to control us and get adulation. They do what works, reflexively. Do they know what they are doing? Yes, the same way a 4 year old does. But their knowledge does not connect with their feelings. They don't care what they do. They don't care if it hurts us or not. They might "know" that their actions hurt us, but they don't care so long as they get attention. They only care when attention is cut off. Then they move on to the next source, or find a way to aggravate us. Even negative attention is desired, because it makes them feel powerful, important, and in control. Is that evil? Well, I often say it is. What do you think? How do you like being treated like an object? They don't love us, they use it. They don't care for us, they manipulate us to get their needs met. Evil?
It's not that they don't know, it's that it doesn't matter to them. Do you care what you say to your refrigerator? To a pencil? You say whatever is necessary to get what you need. These people want attention, adoration, sex, to be desired, to be worshipped, etc. They "know" what they are doing, but don't care one way or the other. They use people to get attention and adulation to feed their false sense of themselves. They know they are doing something hurtful, but will do it if it gives them attention. If kicking the refrigerator door will open it, then you kick it. You know it's hurting the refrigerator, but you don't care. These people cannot empathize with other people. They can't feel that we have feelings. They "know" we have feelings, but it doesn't connect to their emotions. They don't "feel" that we have feelings. Even if they did, they would still act the same because it is a reflex to support their need (they are addicted) for attention and admiration. They are children who have no true sense of self. They are machines!
All Cluster Bs are addicted to supply. They use words as tools to get people to react, so they can get sympathy, drama, attention, admiration, even anger. If you react to them, it means they are powerful and important, capable of controlling people, and using them. Cluster Bs do not use words to communicate, to help, to ask for advice, or to give support. They are only pretending to do that. They might not even know what they are doing themselves, some of the time. For nons, it is sooooo easy to get sucked in, to read (or hear) what a Cluster B says and react as if the words mean what such words usually mean. But, sadly, they do not. It is an act, role playing, a gimmick, a means to an end. An angry reply is as good as a sympathetic reply. To the Cluster B, all such replies are supply. Supply, supply, supply, that is why they are here, that is why they are there, that is why they are everywhere. When will you learn?
Words are useless. Cluster B's push buttons. They don't use words to communicate, they use them to get supply. They say this, then that, they say anything... whatever makes you give them attention or create drama or make them the center of your universe or get whatever they want at that particular moment. They are robots. They cannot empathize. They don't know what it's like to be a human being, so they can't imagine what we are experiencing. They are self-absorbed on their false selves. They are addicted to supply. Words, like any of their actions, are used only to get supply. It is pointless to use words for communication. That will not work! They idealize, and then eventually devalue. Moving on is what it is all about. They need to move on before they are found out. They need to recreate themselves. They need someone new, someone for whom they can create a new illusion and get drenched in attention, admiration, adulation, sex, lust, and caring. Eventually, that gets old, and then it's off to another target. I think it is rare that personality disorders change very much, and it is not possible for Cluster Bs to show and feel mature, adult love that includes impulse control, empathy, and caring.
These people are not really there. There is no one there. They live with a false self. The true self is buried so deep even they do not have access to it. They are emotional hemophiliacs. Their emotions shift faster than the wind. They are doing something like role-playing. They are addicted to the goodies of a relationship: attention, adoration, sex, lust, romance, admiration, control, drama, etc., and will do anything, anything, anything, to keep it going. But they are not addicted to the source of such goodies, so will easily move to another new, more interesting source.
Although their begging seems real, it is not. Even to them it seems real, because they live with their false self. But it is a charade. They are master manipulators. They feel emotions, have desires, but these things shift rapidly. They may sometimes mean what they say, but even then, it will quickly change. Other times they do not mean what they say at all, they are saying it to get what they want, to control, to create drama, to act out.
Cluster Bs react predominantly from unconscious needs. It's not that they don't have emotions, they do, they are just not consistent, and are childish. It's not that they don't feel something for us, they do, they are just not consistent about it and don't have empathy. For example, when you are eating a delicious meal, are you enjoying it? Is it a scam? You enjoy it, but only for a while. Then you want a different meal. You don't want the same thing over and over again. It's similar to that with Cluster Bs. Yes, they do appear cold at times, because they are. But at other times they are warm. Are they faking? Yes, in a way, but not totally. They are not entirely in touch with their own true feelings, so it is fake even for them. It is more like role playing. Cluster Bs are self absorbed. They are totally selfish and self-centered.
Cluster Bs are addicted to supply. They need it constantly. If they can get it from old sources, they will. She is fishing for supply. Also, just writing to you or calling you gives her supply because in her mind she is contacting you and imagining your reaction/emotions. Cluster Bs love drama, they live on it, they need it. They also feel that they "own" people they have gotten supply from. Hoovering occurs, then, as 1) a fishing expedition for more supply from an easy source; 2) a vicarious source of supply through imagining your emotional reaction; and 3) a way of controlling and staying in contact with a person they own. You are right to ignore the hoovers. It is the only way they will stop. But it might take a while.
From what I have read, it is typical of Cluster Bs to be constantly on the prowl. However, active seduction and seeking takes energy, so often they take a break, a rest, for a few months before starting another fishing expedition. But it depends on the situation. It is not uncommon for Cluster B's to change jobs, schools, residences, etc. in order to look for more victims. They are constantly on the lookout, like addicts. They are addicted to attention, adoration, being wanted, and desired, so they are always watching for an opportunity to suck someone in.
What I have heard over and over is that Cluster Bs do not have object constancy. That is, they have a difficult time thinking about someone who is not present. They are like infants in that regard. So, it means that they do not miss people from their pasts since they cannot conceptualize them. It seems to be the nature of Cluster Bs to think of people as interchangable. One is no better than another, so long as they provide attention, lust, sex, adoration, and caring.
People with Cluster B personalities do not form emotional connections. They are incapable of sustaining a relationship. They are erratic and inconsistent. Their brains are wired differently than normal people, apparently as a result of certain genetic factors as well as early experiences. Cluster Bs are not all the same, however. Although, they do have similar characteristics. For example, they do not have a strong inner self, have weak ego boundaries, and lack object constancy (out of sight, out of mind). They have a tendency to get bored easily and need constantly to be doing new things, moving, changing jobs, changing boyfriends, and so on. They have a problem with impulse control, as well as with morality. Therefore, it is easy for them, in fact desirable for them, to move from one person to another. It is a fun game for them to take a relationship as far as they can, to get as much from a mate as they can. They are constantly after attention, love, lust, adulation, and admiration. But they constantly need new sources of such supply. They are often compared to children; in fact, emotionally, they are stuck in childhood. Cluster Bs are pretty much addicted to attention, adulation, and adoration ("supply"), and are constantly trying to get it. They are suffering, but not as much as they imply. Just as when they pretend to be normal; they are not as normal as they appear. Getting attention is part of their manipulation. Manipulation is for attention. Cluster Bs are constantly thinking about it and planning it. It is what they do. They are addicted.
It is easy, even necessary, for such a person to move on to new relationships. It is similar to people buying new clothes. After a while, one gets tired of their clothes. They were fine clothes at one time, but now it's time for some new ones. So, out go the old clothes, which are replaced by different ones that bring more satisfaction. One doesn't worry about the old clothes. Cluster Bs have no sense of emotional connection to people; we are like objects to be used to them. So moving on is easy and necessary. Cluster Bs are addicted to supply. They learn very effective techniques of extracting supply (vampiring) from others. When the supply gets old or boring, they simply devalue and discard the source and move on to another source. The "poor victim" technique is one of the more effective means to get supply, but there are many, many others.
For those of us who do form emotional connections, this is very difficult to understand and appreciate. We feel used. In fact, we were. Just as your old clothes were used by you. But the Cluster B feels no remorse or loss, just as you feel no remorse or loss about your old clothes. The Cluster B knows that you have feelings, and that your feelings were hurt; but she doesn't care. If she cares at all, she is happy. She feels good about hurting you because it means she is powerful, important, and cared about. She also feels good about leaving because she is free to start again without you hanging around holding her back. She also gets to start over again with someone new so she can redefine herself. She can be someone new, maybe someone who won't be so troubled. But of course, that won't happen. She will continue the cycle. She will fall in and out of love on a whim. She will use people for her own selfish purposes and have no remorse about it. She might say she is sorry, but will continue to smile and cheat and lie. It is her nature. She cannot communicate like a normal person. She is a Cluster B. Communication is futile. She is Borg. She is a zombie. There is nothing she could say or do that could make any difference, because she is not real. She is a lie. She has no self. She has no empathy She has no identity. She is a user. She is nothing but a mean, cruel, psychopathic user. Her promises mean nothing. She is a psychopathic liar. She is capable of anything at anytime, on a dime she will turn on you if it means that new "supply" is forthcoming!
People with Cluster B personality disorders use the word love in two ways: 1) to get what they want; it is just an instrument, a ploy, like so many other of their behaviors, that is likely unconscious, instinctive, and used to get a reaction, attention, love, adulation, and admiration, as well as feelings of control, power, manipulation, and importance. And 2) they use the word love like we do, or like a child does, when talking about an object. I love my car. I love my bed. It is an expression that means you want something, enjoy it, and desire it. What it does NOT mean: You care about it's feelings separate from your own, you care about it's well being separate from what you can get from it, and you are concerned for it's welfare. Cluster B's love their soulmates in the way that we love sushi or our cars or the new sweaters we got. They do feel love for us, the same way we feel love for objects. Meaning, they do not feel mature, adult love that involves empathy. Their love is either manipulative or selfish or both.
Cluster Bs don't have empathy, so are unable to imagine (or care) what other people are feeling. They are totally absorbed with getting attention, admiration, adulation, etc., which is called "supply." They use other people as sources of supply. Other people are essentially viewed as objects. Like we would use a pencil or a refrigerator to get what we want, Cluster Bs use people to get supply. They "love" the supply, not the person. It's similar to loving your refrigerator because it gives you what you want. Intellectually they know that the other person "loves" them, but they don't feel it emotionally, so can easily hurt the person they supposedly love, and can easily leave the person when the supply is no longer adequate. Do you feel loved by your refrigerator? Why would you care what your refrigerator feels? Just so it gives you what you want. Cluster Bs use drama, raging, erratic behavior, manipulation, lies, deceit, and anything else that will get them the supply they crave. They "love" supply, not people. They might say they love people, but they mean something different than we do. Would you treat someone you "love" in a mean and cruel way? Of course not. They mean about the same thing that we mean when we say we love some food, or we love our car, or we love our refrigerator. We mean we love what we get from it, how it serves our needs, how it supplies us with what we want, how it gives us emotions. We will quickly discard it when it doesn't give us what we want, or when another one comes along that gives better supply. If you love a person, you don't treat him/her cruelly. A Cluster B will say they "love," but a personality disordered person either does not know what they're talking about because they don't have a normal brain, nor normal empathy, or they are distorting or lying, or they are confused by their own lack of self-awareness, introspection, and cognitive and perceptual problems.
Her mind does not work like a normal mind. Words are tools to deceive, control, manipulate, and extract narcissistic supply. But, they are amazingly seductive, and it is unfortunately quite easy to use words to get a person to become very attached to you.
People with Cluster B personality disorders learn how to push buttons in order to get attention, adoration, love, admiration, etc. One way is to push people away and watch them beg. This becomes an addiction. The Cluster B doesn't so much fear abandonment of the person as much as they fear abandonment of the attention, desire, control, etc. Cluster Bs use all kinds of techniques to deceive, manipulate, and control other people in order to get what is called "supply." They need to be wanted, desired, admired, lusted after, found sexy, important, etc. Dumping you is a technique of getting you to give supply. There are many such techniques. A Cluster B does not have empathy, therefore thinks of you as an object. This is why it is so easy for them to treat you erratically. They just want supply. They will do whatever they need to in order to get it. When they can't get it, they move on to another source. No regrets or sorrow or mourning over the loss of YOU, only over the loss of supply!
The actions of Cluster B's don't make logical sense. They never will. Those actions are completely irrational, sinister and messed up. We can never really understand what motivates them to do what they do -- but we can know for sure, that they will repeat the same destructive patterns over-and-over again throughout their lifetimes - and never escape the self-created cesspool that is their very existence. Too bad for them. I feel most sorry for the lovers they've yet to meet. Our exes will continue to seek out and damage new "supply" as they have damaged us - and leave nothing but emotional chaos in their wake from now until they die.
netcong asks if it is all manipulation, and stirfried asks if it is all fake for pretend. But the way I see it is that the Cluster B personality is not in touch with their "true" self, if they have such a concept. They are not faking, exactly; rather, they are false. It is similar to the idea of a mannequin. A mannequin is not faking being a person. A manneqin is a fake person! A Cluster B personality is not faking their self concept and personality; rather, they are a fake self and personality. It isn't that there is a mean, evil person on the inside and they are pretending to be nice. Rather, their nice self is fake. They don't know anything else. This fake person does what they need to do (and becomes what they need to become) in order to get their needs met. It isn't that they are faking or pretending exactly. They don't know they're doing it. This fake person, of course, will lie, cheat, abuse, deceive, and manipulate in order to get what they want. The fake self has very little morality or superego. The fake self also has very few ego boundaries, so the personality can swing over vast extremes, unlike a true personality. Could you switch your beliefs, values, moods, and behaviors very widely? Probably not. Because your self concept is true and pretty well set. But if you have simply adopted a false self in order to function, to get attention, drama, love, etc., then that false self can vary tremendously in values, behaviors, concepts, thoughts, memories, and defense mechanisms. So, faking is not exactly what is going on. The false self does lie, fake, manipulate, etc. But it also can be kind, loving, gentle, and compassionate if those behaviors will get it what it wants.
My ex looks and acts like a sweet, loving, romantic, kind, caring woman, but she is hiding a secret. Cluster Bs love their secrets!She is a Lolita seductress who uses men for sex, attention, power, control, admiration, love, lust, and feelings of superiority. Of course, she is very good at it, and her current soulmate has no idea. She is only 26 and living with (and cheating on) her fourth man that I know of. She has been married, divorced, and engaged
Yes, they want drama. They live on drama. They want attention, control, manipulation, adoration. They learn ways that work. What usually works is intermittent reinforcement. They get angry, surly, insulting, abusive.... and then loving, kind, romantic. The angry part enables them to work out emotions they have left over from childhood; anger at mom and dad. Then they get loving in order to control you, feel important and loved, get drama and attention, all things that feed their needs. This intermittent reinforcement works, just like a slot machine. And, they learn that it works and become addicted to it. It is mostly unconscious. They rage, insult, pout, go silent... whatever gets you upset. They feel powerful, in control, needed and loved, if you get upset. Then they turn to romance for more feelings of power, plus attention, adoration, love, lust, etc. They are in relationships with people in order to get attention and drama. Hurting someone gives them that.
What does a con artist give you?
They want your trust. The "con" stands for confidence. They want you to have confidence in them. Once they have that, then they pull the con. They use you.
What do Cluster B's give you? They give you a facade, a fake self, a tall tale. When you fall for it, when you give your confidence, then they pull the rug out from under you.
They live for supply. They are addicted to drama and using people. They do not have real, true selves, so the person you knew was fake, role-playing, a lie. A lie to them too; that's why it seemed so real. What can a role-player do for you? Why, play a role, of course.
You got taken. You got used. To some extent it likely was conscious, purposeful. But to some extent it was just the way they are programmed. They use people the way we use objects. And they care about people the same way and the same amount that we care about objects. What does an object give you?
You got a false self. What they give is a con. They role-play. They are playing the role of a human being. They are not faking; they are fake. They are fake human beings. They seem so real because they live the fake too. For a while. Then they morph into another false self. Rage, cheat, lie, tease, abuse, rant, scream, make craziness, and then be loving, kind, sexy, romantic.... it is all their false selves seeking drama, attention, love, admiration, and the like.
What do they give you? Trouble.
And, of course, a broken heart, a loss of innocence, a loss of trust, confusion, lack of closure, and huge regret.
The Cluster B has a false self. They are presenting a person who is not real. They are presenting a "loving" person. Even if they can love, it is only a pretend, or role-playing, love, since it is not their real self. This means it can change on a dime as their false self changes. Dissociation means that the Cluster B personality can become someone else, though they don't change identity. This dissociation allows them to be someone else, in a sense. They can be a certain person with you, but a different person with someone else.
This is not provided here to be in any way cruel or mean, this is provided here because it is the truth and the reality of the Cluster B and that includes Histrionics. I know what I am talking about here, as I have been the unwitting victim of a Cluster B at my former work and I no longer have a job there because of her.
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