Young children of HPD mother.

I just recently found this site and have been searching for wisdom. I haven't really seen any post on how HPD affects the children of a parent diagnosed with HPD and what can be done to help/protect them. It seems to me that most of the post I have read have been an ex of a person with HPD. I understand how a person involved with a mate with HPD could be considered a victim but if we are then we are by our own doing. What I mean by that is that we all have the ability to make choices some good some not so good. Yes there have been times that I have been the victim of physical along with verbal abuse and then my ex made it appear as if she was the victim with all the crying, drama and theatrics she would put on. Heck if I was on the outside looking in I would think she was the victim also. The thing is, I like most of you allowed myself to feel sorry, to love, be fooled and betrayed until a couple years ago. I fell into the web more times than I care to reflect on. There are two times though that I must address and those are the two times that "we conceived children". I have read a lot of your post and can understand what you have been going through but not until recently did not I have any idea that she actually did have dissorders and one of her disorders was HPD. I just thought she was a mean, crazy, self-centered, lazy, high maintenance %&*($. My story is too long to get in to much detail as it has been on going for 8 years now off and on. Let's just say this, credit cards, checking accounts, pain meds, diet pills, sleep aides, alcohol, slapping, panic attacks, anxiety perscriptions, drug court and most recently the police for me with handcuffs. I'm sure most of you can relate. My thing is this we never wed. but we have two beautiful children together. I have joint custody of my son (4) and I had no visitation rights with my daughter (2) until I decided that I was no longer going to be a victim. I finally decided I was not going to let her control when I would and would not be able to see our children. I did what I felt like was my last option. I hired another attorneyand filed for full custody. I presently have joint custody of our children and will be going back to court this month. My question is how do people protect victims that do not have the ability to choose not to be in this relationship, like our children? I could move on tomorrow if it were not for our children. I am 42 years old and I have been there and done most of it except knowing how to live in harmony with a woman with HPD. All I have heard and read has been negative in relation to this dissorder. Is there no one out there that has figured out how to adapt, adjust, love, care, nurture and co-exist as a healthy family when HPD affects one? God gave me two wonderful gifts of joy with a woman that has this dissorder and for them I am in search of solutions.

Tim

zach9112 wrote: I understand how a person involved with a mate with HPD could be considered a victim but if we are then we are by our own doing.

Short answer, no. How are we to know if someone is HPD if for two things:

1. We have no prior or existing knowledge of what HPD is in order to recognise it
2. That the person we engage with is in fact HPD

Where the responsibility lays with us is to exit the relationship once we recognise HPD as the problem.

zach9112 wrote: I just thought she was a mean, crazy, self-centered, lazy, high maintenance %

Regardless of whether you recognised her HPD or not, the above traits you mentioned should have been enough of a sign to leave her.

zach9112 wrote: Is there no one out there that has figured out how to adapt, adjust, love, care, nurture and co-exist as a healthy family when HPD affects one? God gave me two wonderful gifts of joy with a woman that has this dissorder and for them I am in search of solutions.

First and foremost I'm sure you have 2 very special children and no one can take that away from you.

second, you can adapt, adjust, love, care, nurture and co-exist as a healthy family when HPD affects one so long as the HPD is willing to comply with that vision, heres the catch, they don't usually comply.

Tim, my suggestion to be better able to find assistance on how to raise your children while minimising the impact of their HPD mother is to drop the HPD label, and change it to 'an abusive' or 'self-absorbed' mother, and you may find some assistance within your community.

If you read as much information as you can about the effects of domestic violence on kids and how to minimise it, that will help. Glean what you find could be helpful with what you see with your wife and what is happening with the kids etc.

Patricia Evans in her book, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" has several suggestions on how you an be a sympathetic witness to your children's hurt and pain they receive from their mother. Borrow it from your library.

See if you can attend a lecture, or find a counsellor that can give you some resources and come in from the angle of verbal abuse of one parent and how to minimise it's impact, coz you're likely to find nothing that is HPD/children specific.

I keep this taped to my pantry door, as a reminder every day on what to say to my 4 year old when her NPD father says things are her fault when they aren't, when he sulks coz she won't play 0's and X's correctly with him, and when he yells at her for no reason.

The child needs to hear "What he just said is not okay. Come with me while I tell him."

Say: "What you said to xxxxx is not okay. I really don't want to hear this kind of talk again/this tone of voice again."

If speaking up makes it worse, remove yourself and the child out of harms way.

Acknowledging the childs feelings and reiterating to your child that that kinds of talk is not okay."

Tim, you will need to recognise that you will need to excel yourself as a parent, and you will also need to parent for her too. It's a tough ask, a very tough job. You have to be disciplinarian in a fair way to both your kids, you'll have to make up for the time she doesn't spend with them giving them personal attention and stuff, and you'll have to counter-effect her unreasonable demands and discipline on them too.

For some, it's just too hard, but if you're committed you can minimise her effect on the longer term.

The best thing is to acknowledge your children's pain and hurt more than anything else. If she screams at them for no reason and they cry, don't tell them not to cry, let them know it is ok for them to cry coz they feel hurt and in front of them tell her that it's not okay to scream at the kids for nothing. If you stand up to her it'll speak a million words to your kids.

And don't say stuff like, "Even though Mummy forgot this or that, or won't help with homework, she still loves you and she doesn't mean to hurt you." It's not up to you tell them about HER love, you need to only tell them about YOUR love. And if she hurts your kids, then agree that what Mummy does or says DOES hurt! Don't minimise it or deny it for them, or else they'll grow up not recognising their own feelings.

All the best, eh?

Tim, I had to read your post twice because the first read made mr think that you were actually my brother writing in about his HPD wife!! The situation seems to be exactly the same except the fact that they are married.

My brother is petrified to leave because he is threatened with her taking the kids and leaving the state, her threats of suicide, you name it. Though she likes to have the kids to brag about and show off in public....when they get home, he is the one that actually takes care of them because she has no interest. She expects the kids to be perfect in front of company, but at home, when no one else is there, she doesn't even watch them, so they have NO idea how to act at this point It's so sad!

At this point in time, she has alienated our whole family and all but one of my brothers friends. So my parents haven't been able to see their grandson since he was a tiny baby. All because she is waiting for an apology for something that she perceived to occur, but actually didn't (long story).

We worry about my brother's two boys constantly - we saw what she was like with them when we were all still seeing each other and now the stories that we hear about her behavior with them...well it's just a nightmare

zach9112 wrote:... Is there no one out there that has figured out how to adapt, adjust, love, care, nurture and co-exist as a healthy family when HPD affects one?
Tim

Yeah, I'm right here.

I shouldered that burden for twenty five years.

All for my kids...they turned out okay after all.

Now, here's the drill...

HPD is NOT STATIC! It is FLUID and DYNAMIC! 24/7

In the end...

You cannot adapt enough...

You cannot adjust enough...

You cannot love enough (or you love too much)...

You cannot care enough...

You cannot nurture enough...

You can co-exist...

But it will NOT be healthy...

It will be a family by definition (relation) only.

Accept this. You already know it anyway. You're just checking to see if you've over looked something; you haven't.

The HPD will always raise the bar, push the envelope...one notch further.

You will reach heights you never thought possible and endure lows inconceivable.

And then you will fail.

The HPD is hard-wired for failure. Her quest for failure is relentless.

Your quest for success requires tenfold the effort than her's for failure. Failure is easy. It requires no effort. The HPD just let's go of the wheel.

Lynn offers top-shelf advice here. No one knows "HPD". They won't know what you're talking about or how to help. One is more receptive and understanding to the term "abusive". I was slow to learn this. Even though I felt abused and victimized I never accepted this because I didn't have any bruises.

Above all raise your children properly. If you make them the focus of your family you and they will be all right.

You all have made solid points. Yes there were many times that I had suspicions that something was not right. Not until our recent custody battle did it all make sense. The evidence put the puzzle together. That is why I requested the court have both of us take an evaluation. I was more than willing. I felt like I was a normal person if that exist but maybe there was something wrong with me why else would I allow myself to be subjected to all this. My results showed that I could be Narsasitic but my phycologist said that is probably not the case that the family issue I am presently having as well as my occupation could have contributed to these results. I do have some tendancies but being contolling of anything other than my actions is all that I truly have control over and really God handles that. I am very empathetic even to my childrens mother. My job requires that I achieve the task at hand and as long as what we do is ethical, moral and legal I do what I can to help families solve their housing need. The one part of narsasitic that I might fit into is that when I get to the office I stay focused and forget about what is going on at the house. That is one part of me that I do wish I could change. I get involved in what I am doing and stay the course.

The comments about being abused is understandable. Being abused is not just physical. Getting people to understand that and respect that is hard to do from a guys stand point. How can a guy be abused by such beautiful, petitie, sweet intelligent woman like her? That is what people think.

Ok I got a little off the reason I am here. She presently does not yell and scream at our children. She does not beat them. What she does is show tremendous favortisim toward my daughter the youngest. As a settlement to our custody she offered to give me full custody of my our son (4) and she get full custody of our daughter (2) and we alternate weekends for them to be together on the weekends. She still sticks a pacifier in their mouths primarily to shut them up. While at night when trying to get them to sleep it is tempting I do not let them have one. I get them for 30 days at a time and my son has not been given one at my house for 18 months and my daughter has not had one at my house for 2 months but both of them get one at their moms when ever. The emotional outburst of getting loud and crying is toward me and in front of them. She takes their shoes off and sends them to me barefoot because I according to her will not return the shoes. Even though I bought the ones she took off and the reason she had them is because she would not return them to me. She has slapped me in the mouth while holding my son, tried to back me over with the car door while I was telling my son goodbye. Hit me in the shoulder while screaming for me to get out of her car with the children in the car and and of course all of this there is theatrical performances with crying. I realize that if I am not with her then none of this can happen to me in front of our kids but like all the information I have read Irealize that she thinks that she needs someone to make her happy. She needs to fill a void inorder to be complete maybe move out of state to get away from the people that thinks she is crazy. With all that in mind how can me being out of the picture be healthy for my children? It is just a matter of time before she finds someone else and the same crap happens in front of our children except this time it's not Daddy.
For example: She married a guy before me he was 40 she was 25 neither had children. He was a successful attorney, no bills, attractive and physically fit. After meeting he began to run up his credit cards, furs, pearls, 4 ct diamond ring, $100-$200 dinners a couple times a week. They married within 6 months she got pregnant on their wedding night and nine months later had a baby boy. Within another nine months she moved out bought an new BMW would bring the child to the dad for him to take to day care, so he could be responsible for paying for day care. He lost his job, became physically unfit and after 1 1/2 year seperation died alone in his home from a stroke. Sometimes I think how dissapointed she must be that I have been strong enough through my relationship with God to survive her turmoil. I guess I have that 10 times the desire to succeed that one of you were talking about. So with all this said the pattern has got to stop for my children's sake.

Let me ask this. If the person that has HPD was your child what would or could you do to help them? As a parent give up, dis own, do away with, avoid, run from and anything other than be there for them should not be an option. I know I am not her parent but being their parent is not what makes these not an option, it is loving one as God would love you.

I'll finish this later. It is late and I really do not know if I am making any sense here.

We've had parents of HPDs post here sometimes. Sadly, there is nothing they can do for the HPD either, much as they want to.

I guess the only difference between partners of HPDs and parents of HPDs is that partners can eventually, hopefully, stop loving the HPD. The parent can't. No one can change the HPD.

I won't say that no HPD on the earth has ever improved. However, I think that such HPDs are extremely, extremely, rare.

I feel your pain, Zach.

I know the feeling of what you're searching for.

It's got to be out there, right? You just haven't found it, uncovered it yet...

It's a unicorn, a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...

Sadly, you won't find it.

It just doesn't exist.

Even if you did find it, the HPD changes yet again, raises the bar.

...and the wheel goes round.

It's time to re-focus. Take stock, examine the future and you're possible options...

Then lace up your boots, take your children in your arms and get moving.

Zacc,

The kids are what's really devastating about this whole thing. My ex HPD gf has 2 kids and I worry about them even now that we are not romantically involved. It's truly one of the reasons I have stayed friends with her.

Would your ex get therapy? I know I've said it before on this post and most agree that HPD is hard to treat and most HPD people will deny anything's wrong with them. But some do go--ask her if it's an option and expect violent rebuttals, but it might be worth suggesting depending on your relationship's temperature. Bring up mothering skills to my ex and she'll cut your head off!! Best luck and God speed!

Zach,

I am an adult child of a mother with HPD. I am now 46 years old. I can tell you from my perspective what I wish my father had done for me in hopes that it may help you.

1. I wish my Dad rescued me and got me away from my HPD mother.
2. I am grateful he didn't leave me alone with her.
3. I wish he was able to give me unconditional love and acceptance.
4. I wish he took me to counselling as a child to help me deal with the anger and hatred I had towards my HPD mother.
5. I wish he didn't allow my HPD mother's behavior to control our lives and isolate us from friends and family.
6. I wish he called the police and had her arrested when she physically abused us.
7. I wish he would have reported her drug abuse.
8. I am grateful he didn't bad mouth her.
9. I wish he would have validated my feelings.

I would have preferred if my father had been granted full custody of me and minimized the time I had to spend with my HPD mother. I spent a few years beig angry at my Dad for not leaving her thereby "rescuing me". (I detested the lifestyle of chaos and drama the HPD seems to thrive on. I am amazed I survived my childhood and didn't go insane.)

This was not possible for him because 40 years ago, father's usually didn't get custody of children. I am grateful he stayed and didn't leave me alone with her. I am my father's only child and I doubt he would have left me alone with her. He was a man of integrity and honored his commitments. He passed away 2 years ago.

Even though he didn't leave her and take me with him, his presence in my life was crucial and enabled me to survive my childhood. Even though he was under a tremendous amount of stress & pressure living with the crazy-making-behavior a HPD creates, he was able to provide comfort and fun during the chaos. The moments when we worked on my first car, played pool, cards or shopped at Napa are cherished memories.

I would have benefitted from counseling at a young age. I did go to counseling later in life for about 5 years and that helped me tremendously. There were so many emotions I had "stuffed" as a child in order to survive that I needed help in order to become healthy myself. The emotional cannibalism of a parent with HPD in using their own child to satisfy their "need" can do serious damage to the child. I believe my mother would of destroyed me in order to fill her emotional need.

I have not had an easy life. The trauma I suffered as a child has had a huge impact on life. The areas I struggled with were feelings of extreme hatred for my HPD mother and underlying feelings of guilt for hating her. She is 72 now and has never ceased her HPD crazy-making behavior. I have chosen not to have a relationship with her because of her toxic behavior. I may not of had a choice as a child of being around her, but I sure do have a choice now.

I hope my experience helps you help your children.