HPDI Defense vs "friend" AsPDI?

I am very much attached to a young HPD girl I haven't seen for 5 years and don't have normal contact with (45-80% HPD Traits, 20-40% BPD Traits, 15-35% NPD Traits). Even though she has very high HPD-type interactions with me (including all types of attempts to pathologically transform any form of normal human interaction and communication with me into "status" / validation / attention) I believe she holds a high esteem of me and seems to have had a high preference for my attention since I met her (like a fixation, though the fixation was mutual and I realize now was much bigger / deeper, more sincere, and more intertwined with unconditional affection on my side than it was on hers).

My situation with her is extremely complicated for a million different reasons but I've sworn to myself a long time ago I would never abandon her. One thing I worry about is one of her friends. She has 3 close female friends: One I like a lot and seems quite balanced (with some BPD traits thrown in), one I know little about and can read little into (other than she might be attracted to girls and she seems to have distanced herself following emotional draining), and the third, more recent, friend appears to me as high AsPD (perhaps with a touch of NPD). I'm several years older than the HPD girl and I've known a few people with AsPD type traits in my life but this one definitely is a rare one and worries me for some reason (she seems almost not human to me).

I think that before meeting me (and still thereafter perhaps), my HPD was always primarily seeking validation from her older sister (who also has HPD traits, with quite an NPD tendency, and a slight touch of AsPD, but not anything evil). As she distanced herself a bit of her sister in the last few years, she seems to have done something I've seen my little brother doing: Fleeing someone toxic (my father in the case of my little brother) to become best friends with someone harboring very similar traits (maybe to subconsciously pathologically return to the "safety" of the abused kind of position she had been into all her life). The only problem is that though her sister did have similar traits on the surface, and though her sister did manipulate her for whatever ends aligned with her very own feelings (greatest social & manipulation genius I've ever met), and though her older sister was jealous of her, (A) I think that deep inside her older sister truly loved her in her own limited HPD way, and wouldn't want to hurt her in situations in which her own feelings were not involved, (B) She might mistakenly have subconsciously felt her AsPD friend was the same as her sister, but that is not the case. Though her bigger sister betrayed me as a friend, manipulated me against my own interest and the interest of her little sister who I had a lot of affection for (betraying two people loving her, for her own ego), and did create a tremendous amount of harm, I'm quite certain that she was not a fundamentally bad person, her manipulations were quite overt in a way, and she certainly was not out to be evil for no reason. She did have the charms of an HPD in a less "innocent" manner than her little sister does, but there is definitely humanity in her. Her AsPD friend on the other hand does not seem to put too much effort in pretending to be charming, and her manipulations, which I can hardly see, seem to be entirely covert.

Now the big problem I have is that:
> Though her AsPD friend has little I admire (as she doesn't display anything that I value), the HPD girl I like surprisingly seems to have admiration for her (because she's like the sister she admired, because she has NPD traits which seem "cool" to her, and because she a Model), and this gives her a tremendous capacity to influence the girl I like
> She is extremely easy to influence and manipulate (from the words of her own sister)
> She has a lot for herself that constitute great ground for covert jealousy from another girl: She is definitely more beautiful than her model friend, she comes from a somewhat well off environment, and there's her story with me, which, though it's a bit weird, I think any girl would envy.

I do believe that her Model friend never was a sincere friend (and is incapable of a sincere friendship at all) and that she found in the girl I like characteristics of a very useful tool, and I do believe that for the aforementioned reason this model friend has strong reasons to need to covertly influence her to "destroy" some of the beauty in her life (so that this model can feel better with herself). I feel that this "friend" will only be able to feel good once having reached the point knowing that my HPD's life is as sad, void of empathy and empty as her own life. There definitely is something in my HPD that appeals to that kind of lifestyle (you don't get hurt as much when you are hurting others), so it's not a purely one sided problem, but my HPD is defenseless vs this girl in the sense that I believe she is not capable of discerning her manipulations nor the capacity to have the sensitivity (and non-disordered thinking capability) to detect that what she is influenced to do is destroying the most valuable and true things in her life (especially if she is feeling hurt).

Now last and worst element: While I know that the girl I am attached to is capable of deep empathy in normal circumstances, when she is not under pressure / stress / sleep deprivation / alcohol or hurt (she can be hurt by the slightest comment, even when it is in no way intended as criticism), and that this empathy to some extent guards against her doing "bad things", by letting myself being pushed away by her attitude, I have let her introduce into the mix the pain that I resorted to break my word to her for the first time in my life and started dating another girl (I know it is in no way my fault and she is entirely to blame herself, or at least the HPD part of her brain, because I did this as it had seemed to me that I was "enabling" a bad side of her by staying in her life and I didn't know about HPD, so I thought that by not following my word, which I normally never do, and by moving away from her, I would help her go back to being the great girl I had always seen in her, and she would attract better people and be happer like that).

I never told her that I started dating another girl, but I know she knows it via our families, and I know it hurt her, and I know that cuts away the "empathy" part of her, and leaves her highly vulnerable to bad influence. She usually does not drink, and does not go out except on very few occasions, and after a few months of not hearing from me, but before she learned I had a girlfriend, I had for the first time seen her change in a very surprisingly healthy direction (involved in a healthy organization for her city without attending the parties organized by that organization despite several witnessed attempts from guys to have her go, involved herself in a sailing club, and developed interest in and interactions with people she formerly had no interest for, i.e. more "real" people with more deep and less superficial value). Now however, she posted pictures of her in a night-club, and at parties with her AsPD friend which I am certain has tried (perhaps successfully) to influence her to have sex with another man.

Now I am left to wonder how in the world I could try to help her not let this friend (and perhaps also her sister) influence her to destroy the beautiful things in her life.
> Telling her would not help, as (1) she does not communicate with me like a normal person, (2) In her mind I hurt her and she will not be open to me, (3) I have the feeling that the last person to talk to her would be the one to determine her mindset, and her AsPD "friend" who has normal contact with her would definitely have the last word, (4) I have never intended to manipulate people in my life, and as a result I am not trained, or skilled in it, and even given fair conditions, which I clearly don't have here, I don't believe I could in any way outdo her AsPD "friend".
> I could try to explain it to her BPD friend who has intermittent direct contact both with her and with the AsPD friend, but (1) I think thought she looks like a very nice person, this friend might be even more prone to manipulation than even I am, and certainly is already manipulated at least in small ways both by my HPD and by the AsPD girl already, (2) I think this friend is very loyal and I don't think I could say a word to her without the girl I like, and then probably the AsPD girl too, knowing about it.
> Explaining to her family wouldn't help: As I had developed a lot of affection for this girl, the affection boiled over onto anything linked with her, and so I "fell in love" with her dad and mum as I met them, but though I have affection for them, and for her sister despite the pain and destruction of her course of actions, I am unsure that a single member of her family might be able to put her feelings before their own, or even be able to truly take care of another person than themselves (plus there might be a high conflict of interest level between me and her dad?/mum?/sister).
> The only thing I could see helping the situation, would be to overtly tell her about my girlfriend, and tell her why, and try to have a normal contact with her (but so far I haven't found the perfect way to do that without her being hurt, seeking attention from other guys in deeper ways than usual, and without her HPD traits resulting in blame shifting behavior, her painting me black and being even more subject to her friend's manipulations)

If anyone has any idea what I could do which might help to prevent any destructive influence / manipulation of this girl on her and prevent her life taking a direction which will lead to her long term pain and sadness, I'd appreciate.

Hey VeritasCE,

VeritasCE wrote:...and prevent her life taking a direction which will lead to her long term pain and sadness, I'd appreciate.

I am doubtful that any theory can be complete without consideration of a few variables -

1.) How each of us weighs near future vs far future gain varies, a lot. Some plan years ahead, but some plan a few months, other a few days, some moment to moment. There are some good insights into why in various books.

2.) There is a lot written on victim-think, why some do this, and what they get out of it. Some of those articles do try to take care not to confuse un-chosen victim states with chosen, but it's murky too, because un-chosen victim experiences can lead to chosen victim experiences later.

On variable #2, my ex said it well to me once... "Drama just seems to gravitate toward me", as she smiled and clearly showed enjoyment in that. I learned a lot from that moment. From my point of view a random fight among two other people in a large drunken crowd had nothing to do with us, but she clearly got something out of believing it was about her.

3.) Lack of empathy for others is a factor. To continue with situation mentioned in #2, involving herself, even if doing so risked some minor potential to her near future detriment, the odds were low, as most men won't hit women, but they will hit other men, and so from her point of view it was a drama opportunity, while from mine, I risked a more likely injurious result from jumping into something that had nothing to do with me. My ex has no empathy, so my risks are never on her mind, only what she risks.

Shorter version -

Be careful about confusing what you would perceive as a disastrous life outcome with what she does, and also there is risk of confusing what is potentially disastrous for you, versus her (i.e., she may not be concerned yet in life that others won't bail her out).

xdude wrote:Hey VeritasCE,

VeritasCE wrote:...and prevent her life taking a direction which will lead to her long term pain and sadness, I'd appreciate.

I am doubtful that any theory can be complete without consideration of a few variables -

1.) How each of us weighs near future vs far future gain varies, a lot. Some plan years ahead, but some plan a few months, other a few days, some moment to moment. There are some good insights into why in various books.

2.) There is a lot written on victim-think, why some do this, and what they get out of it. Some of those articles do try to take care not to confuse un-chosen victim states with chosen, but it's murky too, because un-chosen victim experiences can lead to chosen victim experiences later.

On variable #2, my ex said it well to me once... "Drama just seems to gravitate toward me", as she smiled and clearly showed enjoyment in that. I learned a lot from that moment. From my point of view a random fight among two other people in a large drunken crowd had nothing to do with us, but she clearly got something out of believing it was about her.

3.) Lack of empathy for others is a factor. To continue with situation mentioned in #2, involving herself, even if doing so risked some minor potential to her near future detriment, the odds were low, as most men won't hit women, but they will hit other men, and so from her point of view it was a drama opportunity, while from mine, I risked a more likely injurious result from jumping into something that had nothing to do with me. My ex has no empathy, so my risks are never on her mind, only what she risks.

Shorter version -

Be careful about confusing what you would perceive as a disastrous life outcome with what she does, and also there is risk of confusing what is potentially disastrous for you, versus her (i.e., she may not be concerned yet in life that others won't bail her out).

1) I think I score very high on far future vs near future gain. She scores fairly low but probably still in the top 5-10% for a Histrionic in terms of life decisions (may be so thanks to guidance of a close family member or a Psychiatrists, or perhaps a combination of both). I have no idea how her friends score on that.

2) She is not self-destructive when you look at the short term superficial aspects of her life: everything seems perfect in the short term and on the surface, but she is definitely self-destructive on deeper and long term things: It's subconscious but the way she acts puts her at great risk of ending in the lower 1-2% of her potential success/happiness given her intelligence and physical endowments. The best I'd see her do if I fail to change things is to marry a semi-rich guy and be happy with him for 3-4 years before things start falling apart, or stay single and enjoy the attention of many guys for another few years until her beauty fades away and all of that gradually falls away from her. I hope I can prevent this. I know it's stupid, but to me she is the other part of me

As a note to that point (Long Term vs Short Term): When she was 15 she once said "I hope I'll die young."

3) I don't see her do things in such explicit / short term level as not caring for putting others at risk in the short term. But she definitely has a tendency for not caring about the injuries of those who care the most about her. Deeper / longer term things for which she seemed to have no regards for include:
(A) My investments in her.
(B) Me having avoided long term relationships 4.5 years for her (i.e. my time).
(C) My comparative opportunities wasted as a young male with tremendous potential and a great profile ("status" if you'd like to call it), which I did not take with her in mind in the course of the last 5.5 years

I do have to say, however, that the pain of a situation I could not solve in which I thought she was suffering out of loyalty to her sister (and to a lesser extent to her parents) did bring me to a state of complete desensitization to danger (I'm already by nature a risk taker, I've never been much afraid) and when she had seen accumulated evidence of me growingly exposing myself to danger she did seem to feel a bit responsible (or was pushed to do so by a friend / family member) by giving me more clarity/"closure".

> As for the last point. I'm sure she could get with any great looking guy, or rich guy, or "cool" guy. But none of these guys I believe (narcissistically perhaps) would have as great of a mix I have of different desirable aspects a girl can find in a guy as I do (that is for the very superficial and short term side of it). On a the deeper and stronger point: While I am sure many guys would fall mad in love with the external "her", or 1 in 10,000 could love as much the internal her too, I don't think any guy in the world can be attached to the true her to the extent I do. Not at all because she is not worth it, she is by many measures worth all the love in the world (in my emotionally blinded opinion), but (A) because I have a disordered ability to feel things much more deeply than the very large majority of people / men, which gives me a very rare/unique ability to love deeply in a permanent way, independently of her (I still have deep and great affection for people i haven't seen in 5, 10, 20 years, for instance). and (B) Independent of my ability to love deeply and to be permanently attached to someone, no other guy can have the conditions in which I met her which enable me to see something very special in her that I couldn't see in other girls, which other guys won't have with her because they didn't meet her at the age at which I met her and in the same circumstances). So yes, she can have great things in her life in the next 1, 3, maybe even 7 years. But she won't have me. And I fear that whatever she gets instead won't stay beautiful too long, that it will be a nice escape route in the short term, but that this beautifully colored path at first, would risk cyclically but assuredly bringing her to a much less colored place (I hope I would be wrong, and I hope I still can prevent this from happening, but i know the risk is big and that I cannot do anything without her doing a big part on her side).
On my side I know that if I wanted, while I would not get "the most wonderful thing in the world", I might get something quite close to it, or better in many aspects. But to me, now still, and while it seems to be almost lost, losing her would be like losing the most wonderful thing in the world, and I don't feel this is replaceable, and I don't want to replace it. Which is why I'd like to avoid envious others consciously or subconsciously using her weaknesses against her to manipulate or influence her into a life less beautiful than what I think she could get. It's not really my job to do this, and probably I can't do anything at all since I'm not in her life, but apparently there is no one there with incentive to protect her against that. The best I can hope without any ideas from this forum, is that she'll realize that and protect herself against such influence.

One other thing to consider -

At least my ex was very vocal about don't try to control me. You may mean well, but the lines between what is helpful, and what can be perceived as control are blurry.

One of the former mods here had written quite a deep piece on how she had been controlled as a child, that she had been trained to be the perfect little girl, and so later in life, she understandably resented others attempts to shape her into their own ideal of what she should be.

What was so insightful about what she wrote is that the root of her HPD lied in the realizations that her true personality, her true feelings, got lost because of others trying to shape her into something they wanted. It's doubtful her parents meant to harm her, but did, by confusing who they wanted her to be, with who she really is.

After much therapy she improved and turned her life around, but not because of anything others said/did, because she made a choice, on her own, to turn it around.

So same with your friend, it's a change she would need to make, on her own, because she wants to do it. A real step towards choosing herself, just for her.

xdude wrote:One other thing to consider -

At least my ex was very vocal about don't try to control me. You may mean well, but the lines between what is helpful, and what can be perceived as control are blurry.

One of the former mods here had written quite a deep piece on how she had been controlled as a child, that she had been trained to be the perfect little girl, and so later in life, she understandably resented others attempts to shape her into their own ideal of what she should be.

What was so insightful about what she wrote is that the root of her HPD lied in the realizations that her true personality, her true feelings, got lost because of others trying to shape her into something they wanted. It's doubtful her parents meant to harm her, but did, by confusing who they wanted her to be, with who she really is.

After much therapy she improved and turned her life around, but not because of anything others said/did, because she made a choice, on her own, to turn it around.

So same with your friend, it's a change she would need to make, on her own, because she wants to do it. A real step towards choosing herself, just for her.

That's a very good point I had entirely overlooked. She is in many ways similar to my little brother (in a much more extreme way), and my little brother does have this reaction now of seeing control in any harmless interactions (it fades away in interactions with me now as he's seen for years that I'm not trying to control anything in his life and just being there when he needs tools but it went from one extreme when he was a child to another after leaving home and he is still at an extremely high level of control aversion with the rest of the family).

Everything does make it nearly impossible to interact with her though. How do you interact with someone who doesn't communicate like other people, whose defense mechanisms derail communication & good intentions for the purpose of feeding her bruised ego, which at the same time make her think and act like a child when she is stressed out but also maybe make her see control where it may not be? I really like her but the more I learn about this the more it seems like a problem without solution. It seems I would need to let her crash her life over the next years to help herself. But at the same time we'd entirely lose each other. If I can't do anything I'll give her all the tools to build herself and to build a life as good as possible once she has crashed it, because even if we are made impossible, and this becomes out of my hands, I'd like her to have as good of a life as possible later on. But I hope I can find the means to avoid that, because while she would build herself and be able to build new things that are good, she wouldn't recover the things she lost and never get anything close. And the best tools of all I think would be to have a lifetime partner who is able to understand her and the complexity of it and deal with it in everyday life, and who loves her as she is. If only I could get her to communicate normally it would shift from a problem without solution to an extremely complex problem. From something impossible to something that is just extremely difficult.

I have noticed many positive changes in her life over the past years. I think she may be working with a professional or have someone with extremely good guidance in her life (I'd bet more on the first option, but her mum who had H traits herself and kind of co-ruined her marriage/family together with her also nice (NPD?) husband, did strike me as a great person when I met her, and also as someone inclined to good capacity for psychological analysis of others, so maybe she's being a great mum and guiding her daughter not to make the same mistakes she did herself).
I've noticed that in the moments I don't talk to her she has improved her life hygiene and built herself a little and every time I notice something like that it makes me incredibly proud of her and I feel so happy. Last summer I noticed she was able to sustain stressful conversations for longer periods of time. I also noticed she went from liking mostly superficial people to liking more and more good people with less on the surface. Until recently she showed avoidance of "night life" which I think is extremely healthy for a person with an H-inclined personality. She also joined the sailing club of her university which is very unlike her former her but which I think could help tremendously in building a healthy life. So somehow she is building herself already. But her getting hurt brings up the defense mechanism that risks destroying years of her work, and people like the AsPD girl or other persons with ego problems close to her will subconsciously influence her to do the things they know will permanently destroy some of the greatest assets in her life in order to bring her down closer to their lower level and down to the level of their inner insecurities. I agree that she is the only one who can effect that protection of herself, and I know she is fully capable of it if she could see it, but how do I get her to gain the insight / conscience on what may be happening? Should I just watch as this other girl subconsciously influence her in a way that will take her down and do nothing?

Probably not the most politically correct thing for me to write, but something to ponder -

Especially when it comes to sexually attractive women, some others may feel exceptionally compelled to jump in, save them, or control them, to turn them into a version of whatever it is they think an ideal female should be.

It's hard to step back and let others make their own mistakes, but especially so if we have an agenda. Put another way, there are some 7,000,000,000+ people on the planet, and we don't try to save them all from themselves, so when we are fixated on saving someone from themselves, it's important to be honest with ourselves, why them? The lines between altruism and self-interest can be blurry.

And really, there are just somethings in life we all must learn in our own hard-way. Sometimes we just have to make our mistakes before we are ready to embrace the lesson. She may have to make some mistakes, and yes it sucks when those mistakes ruin someones life, but if that's her path in life then it is.

xdude wrote:Probably not the most politically correct thing for me to write, but something to ponder -

Especially when it comes to sexually attractive women, some others may feel exceptionally compelled to jump in, save them, or control them, to turn them into a version of whatever it is they think an ideal female should be.

It's hard to step back and let others make their own mistakes, but especially so if we have an agenda. Put another way, there are some 7,000,000,000+ people on the planet, and we don't try to save them all from themselves, so when we are fixated on saving someone from themselves, it's important to be honest with ourselves, why them? The lines between altruism and self-interest can be blurry.

And really, there are just somethings in life we all must learn in our own hard-way. Sometimes we just have to make our mistakes before we are ready to embrace the lesson. She may have to make some mistakes, and yes it sucks when those mistakes ruin someones life, but if that's her path in life then it is.

I understand what you say. And I know that you don't know me personally nor the situation. I'm not sure it helps but here are a few points about me/her:

> I've helped a lot of people in my life. I had a good reason each time (I saw inner beauty in them and/or they were loyal friends beyond reason). Most were not very physically attractive.
> Though I feel compelled to help people in some specific situations in which I have a high comparative advantage or have a strong reason to think they should be helped and that it will have great results, I am not a saint, and I'm not walking around "helping people"
> I want to help her because to me she is not "a" girl. I want to help her primarily because I want us to be together, because to me she was made for me and I was made for her. It sounds stupid but I feel she is part of me. Even if I know for sure I'll never see her again I want her to have the arms to make the best for herself.
> I probably would have wanted to shape her a bit into my perfect girl when I met her (I'm quite a narcissist), yet now I know she has HPD, and I know she can never be that girl, and still I feel the same. I've never wanted to control her. I was scared as $#%^ when she wanted to be a model, because the field is full of some superficial and some very ###$ up people, and I was afraid it would wear out on her, but if that's what made her happy, be it. She later changed her mind on her own, and I was so happy when I learned it from my uncle. I always tried to be in a position helping her find herself, to be non-judging and neutral towards her.
> The pictures in which I find her the most beautiful are often not the ones in which a neutral person would. I find her beautiful when she looks natural, when she looks goofy, when she is smiling genuinely, when she looks tired and insecure/vulnerable and untanned in the middle of the winter (the kind of pictures she would hide). One of her friend I mentioned in the post looks like a good person (maybe has some light BPD traits): when she is on a picture together with that friend, I almost always find her very cute, especially when they are just the two of them and seem to be innocently having fun or sharing intimate time.
> I forbid myself to think this way, but sometimes for a short second I almost wish she was less beautiful, because it hurts me to see how it could be a curse to her. Sometimes in life having a handicap is a gift. The happiest girls out there, and the ones that end up with the most beautiful families, are rarely the most beautiful. Likewise the most successful people in the world were rarely if ever endowed with the greatest odds to succeed. My narcissistic side wants her to be as beautiful as possible so that I can feel great that she choses not to go with any other guy for my sake, but on the other hand really I wouldn't care less if she was a bit more average. My heart wants her to be as beautiful as she may wish to be - objectively the most beautiful girl in the world if she so desires - as long as it doesn't turn against her, attracts the wrong friends, or cultivates things in her that make her less beautiful inside.
> Even before I met her, a girl's objective look has never been directly linked to how beautiful I would find her. I'd find average looking girls with amazingly beautiful insides more beautiful than girls that look awesome to others on the outside

I will address that point in my "main" post.

I've personally seen the fascination with AsPD types, and read quite a lot about it as well, but it remains one of those areas where she is probably going to need to make her own mistakes.

On the cluster B scale, I personally mentally organize as -

BPD (least defenses) -> HPD/NPD (moderate defenses) -> AsPD (strong defenses), so if she does have HPD perhaps a part of her is attracted to the apparent strength.

But I also see a general pattern, not always true, but it's a generalization to say that NPD types have fairly consistent personalities, while HPD types tend to be more fluid, variable, chameleon like (not sure what a good word) in their personalities. So from that point of view, it could vary how influenced she is by her AsPD friend.

So you may be thinking you're conveying something, and on that day she is agreeable, only the next day to find her outlook has changed, and no difference.

Another way to say it is if you are an NPD type then who you present as, consistency, is important to you (it's what us NPD types get rewarded for), but as a HPD type, consistency is less important to her than adopting to her emotions and others in the now (it's what she gets rewarded for).

xdude wrote:I've personally seen the fascination with AsPD types, and read quite a lot about it as well, but it remains one of those areas where she is probably going to need to make her own mistakes.

On the cluster B scale, I personally mentally organize as -

BPD (least defenses) -> HPD/NPD (moderate defenses) -> AsPD (strong defenses), so if she does have HPD perhaps a part of her is attracted to the apparent strength.

But I also see a general pattern, not always true, but it's a generalization to say that NPD types have fairly consistent personalities, while HPD types tend to be more fluid, variable, chameleon like (not sure what a good word) in their personalities. So from that point of view, it could vary how influenced she is by her AsPD friend.

So you may be thinking you're conveying something, and on that day she is agreeable, only the next day to find her outlook has changed, and no difference.

Another way to say it is if you are an NPD type then who you present as, consistency, is important to you (it's what us NPD types get rewarded for), but as a HPD type, consistency is less important to her than adopting to her emotions and others in the now (it's what she gets rewarded for).

This is a very interesting point (it is very helpful for me to try to integrate things like this into my mind). I would have thought maybe ASPD>NPD>HPD>>BPD?

Her older sister had quite strong HPD traits too (though dominantly NPD I think, but I've not tried to analyze her, other than collaterally), she nevertheless expressed them in a very different way, and she did have much more consistency than her at the time (but she was also older which is why I didn't really realize that until now). In fact, everyone seemed to tell me that the girl I like was "fragile", without me knowing wtf it was supposed to mean. But the funny thing is that the way I look at it now, she wasn't the only one at all: Dad might have had strong NPD traits (not my personal analysis as I've met him only 3 times), Mum I recognize now had many HPD Traits, and Older Sister was perhaps along the lines of NPD>HPD>>ASPD.

Luckily, I still think she is in the upper 20-30% among HPDs in terms of consistency (perhaps thanks to her NPD traits)*. She is successfully following through with her studies and always struck me as having more life discipline than normal girls (which I found very cute).

I've seen her grow stronger in the past years, which gives me a lot of hopes. The more I think back at things the more I think she and her family might have known all along that she has HPD, and it is possible that she has had therapy or some reasonably good counseling over the past years (which would explain why I have the sense that she seems to slowly evolve, and how she hasn't radically ruined her life so far). These are the different possibilities I can think of:

(1) She has a super smart, deep and amazing friend calling her out on appropriate behaviour and giving her good advice.
(2) Husband is not such an NPD as Mum painted him and actually a big victim of the divorce (I think the blame is at least to a certain extent shared among both, and I've personally witnessed his, as well as their shared irresponsibility as parents, but this is still a possibility), the husband (who is a doctor) gets into contact with a psychiatrist to understand his ex wife's behavior, finds out about HPD, sees the traits in his daughters, and decides to take appropriate steps to protect his beloved daughters and do what is still possible by introducing them to the problem at hand and suggesting counseling.
(3) After the divorce, the family realizes that the younger daughter (her) is taking it very bad, she goes into counseling, they diagnose HPD, and she has actively been counseled ever since.
(4) After the divorce, the family realize that she is "fragile" but don't move on to understand things any further. Following the interactions with me they realize that their daughter doesn't react quite like a normal girl would and that she has been hurt by her childhood more seriously than they had thought so far, and perhaps she also falls into depression (which would be consistent with the photos she posted to social media over that period). That brings her into contact with a counselor, and she has been following through with it since.
(5) After her divorce and losing all money, husband, and friends, her mum might have gotten into a deep depression (occurring slightly before I met them), as a result, she might have entered contact with a therapist, who diagnosed HPD and warned her from the effects of her behavior on her daughters. Mum becomes self-aware and decides to do everything she can to break the cycle, and mum has been acting as counselor to her in order to help her try to prevent her from doing the same mistakes she did herself, or even worse mistakes than those she did. (I now realize that the mum had HPD traits and thus that part of what I saw was a facade, but this would really be along the way I experienced her /felt when I met her, viewing her as an amazing loving/caring mum and growing huge affection for her)
(6) Some form of combination of the aforementioned possibilities





*I've started my main post here with an assessment of both our profiles and will add to it as I can find time: https://www.psychforums.com/post2145940.html#p2145940

VeritasCE wrote:I would have thought maybe ASPD>NPD>HPD>>BPD?

To be clear, I wrote "->" meaning an arrow of thought, not a greater than character.

In terms of who appears to have the greater emotionally stability though, your order works I think, sans the AsPD types who screw up their lives (and others) when angry, or just because they couldn't keep their impulses under control.