NPD vs. HPD

Can anyone explain to me the difference, psychologically? E.g. How do histronics tend to think that is different from how narcs think that help psychologists diagnose them?

It's understandable why you ask, but a bit of a 90 degree view -

We people tend to do what 'works'. What 'works' means the path of least resistance. We tend to do what we are rewarded for (i.e., what others encourage), and avoid what others discourage. I am not going to say that there is no such thing as innate personality, it's a factor, but I also believe (just a personal opinion) that those who end up taking the NPD path vs HPD path, were strongly influenced by what worked for them.

There is a lot in common between the two disorders as both revolve around an above the norm need for approval from others to feel valued. They go about the hows differently, because it is what worked for them. There are can be a dramatic difference self-perception, but not a surprise either if you think about out that in terms of what works.

jordan51 wrote:Can anyone explain to me the difference, psychologically? E.g. How do histronics tend to think that is different from how narcs think that help psychologists diagnose them?

HPD is mostly counterphobic, while NPD is counterpsychotic.
HPD is either neurotic or high-level borderline while NPD is either highlevel borderline or lowlevel borderline.
HPD want to be the center of attention because they fear attention, NPD are convinced theyre the center of the world.
HPD is gender-oriented, Freudians might say its an oedipal disorder, while NPD is a pre-oedipal disorder. So lots of HPD stuff circulates around very stereotypical gender-images of big, bad, strong men vs tiny, weak women. Often the women idealize the strong man, letters written by hysteric women to men who have been imprisoned is a rather known symptom; sometimes thits purely counterphobic sometimes its mixed with projection, so there are rescue fantasies at play.
HPD have shallow affective display, because they are afraid their affects will be ridiculed, so they will use dramatized affect usually ceating the opposite effect. NPD affect is shallow because of a reduction in object relations and a lack of libidinal ivnestment into the outside world.
HPD can be caring and warm, depending on where on the spectrum they are and their exploitative, "psychopathic" stuff activates only when their conflicts are activated.
HPD idealization and devaluation is often gender-related, too and counterphobic ("This wonderful man wouldnt hurt me") vs NPD idealizign and devaluing very broad in accordance with their grandiose-self-setup.

Top of my hat these. So I'd say they're pretty different.

[source mostly McWilliams Psychoanalytic Diagnosis]

Yes, there are many differences, and psychologists understandably focus on those details.

The 90 degree point of view is, is that helpful to understand for non professionals? Maybe, but sometimes it helps to step back and look at a big picture view. Sometimes the big picture is easier to relate too, but also because being overlay invested in trying to understand every nuance of someone else' PD can leave the observer worse off. It doesn't help the person with the PD, and can turn into obsessive 'if I can just figure this out' thinking for the observer.

Also the psychological descriptions may lack context. What bubbles to the forefront varies depending on the situation (e.g., around strangers, around a long-term romantic relationship partner, around parents, when alone, etc.), and can vary/cycle over time for some (i.e., is the person in their psychopath phase, is the person in their manic phase, is the person in their depression phase, etc.). A partner of someone with a PD may learn these cycles occur, but that leads to more questions. Again, stepping back and looking at the big picture is sometimes more useful than a deeper drive into unraveling another person's puzzle.

Akuma wrote:HPD is gender-oriented, Freudians might say its an oedipal disorder, while NPD is a pre-oedipal disorder. So lots of HPD stuff circulates around very stereotypical gender-images of big, bad, strong men vs tiny, weak women. Often the women idealize the strong man, letters written by hysteric women to men who have been imprisoned is a rather known symptom; sometimes thits purely counterphobic sometimes its mixed with projection, so there are rescue fantasies at play.

BTW definitely found this interesting if we dive into differences. One way to look at this is what worked? What was the person rewarded for?

For the NPD male, it could be they are rewarded for being the stereotype strong male, gatherer of resources and the leader whose say is law (at least among the sycophant types they surround themselves with). For the HPD female, rewarded for her role, handing over that role and seeking the alpha male figure role.

Still, that just comes down to what 'works', the path of least resistance. If we look earlier on in that process, what was behind that? Why the need to fit in, why the need to have others approve vs a different path of I want to enjoy being me, not everyone else is going to praise/admire/hold-me in high regard thinking and I can't enjoy life until everyone else does? Why the fear of group disapproval? Why the focus on who doesn't approve vs feeling a sense of my life is good because I see it that way, and so do the few people in my life that matter?

There is a potential common belief/perception there of I am must control everyone else' thoughts/feelings about how they perceive me.

There is also the interesting theory that PD's form in cultures where people have too much free time on their hands. In a culture/situation where survival really is a true concern, people choose the roles that works, but nobody calls it a PD, it's just about how to live another day.