Histrionic's Struggles Disregarded

I recently spoke to a therapist about my HPD. I also spoke to her about how I was hating myself and feeling like I don't deserve to live. When I tried to tell her about the intrusive suicidal thoughts I get that I want to stop having, she cut me off. Wouldn't let me finish, changed the subject. It made me upset because here I am trying to get help and she is probably not believing me. That's why I was hesitant to tell her I have it. Because as soon as I mention HPD, it automatically discredits me. It's as if because I'm histrionic, I couldn't possibly have any real feelings, especially self-loathing and suicidal feelings. That's how people think about us. They think we're saying these things for attention. It makes me not want to seek help. It upsets me that they have books for borderline individuals on how to cope, but when I look for something similar for HPD, all I find is forums and articles where nons are asking how to deal with a histrionic. There's nothing out there to help me deal with me.

It makes me feel more alone, like a bad person, like I don't deserve anyone's help. How can I get people to understand that I'm being honest? I'm not exaggerating. I want help. But I feel like it's not actually available. It's pointless to talk to someone who is gonna disregard what you say because they think you must be a liar.

Hey Nonexistent,

I don't recall this point coming up before, or at least not written out so clearly.

It may just be that you need a different therapist. It's one of the pitfalls of therapy, finding a T that is a good match can be frustrating.

What about other topics, does your T listen to those?

--

On a personal level, I know with my ex it's not that I thought she was a liar. It was that because of impressionistic (i.e., dramatic, not much detail) speaking about so many things, no matter how minor, it was hard to know what to take seriously. I do think it was all serious and of equal importance in her mind, but I admit, I also came to believe that because of a lifelong habit of over emphasizing, I felt she didn't know herself what really was of true emotional importance to her.
Actually if something really bothered her, something deeply serious (e.g., an ill family member), those were the times she tended to go quiet, under react as compared with a NON. That makes sense, since those things that really hurt dropped her out of her manic state to an honest depressive state.

Also, on a personal level I also couldn't help myself, but to try and encourage her to make the distinction. Admittedly I also started tuning her out, and changing subjects. All reasons aside that are about her, I personally just couldn't keep up with her emotional swings and train of thought (i.e., it wore me down) at the expense of drowning out my own thoughts/emotions.

Perhaps your T does hear you, but is trying to encourage an entirely new path, build new habits?

Hope that all makes sense!

xdude wrote:Hey Nonexistent,

I don't recall this point coming up before, or at least not written out so clearly.

It may just be that you need a different therapist. It's one of the pitfalls of therapy, finding a T that is a good match can be frustrating.

What about other topics, does your T listen to those?

--

On a personal level, I know with my ex it's not that I thought she was a liar. It was that because of impressionistic (i.e., dramatic, not much detail) speaking about so many things, no matter how minor, it was hard to know what to take seriously. I do think it was all serious and of equal importance in her mind, but I admit, I also came to believe that because of a lifelong habit of over emphasizing, I felt she didn't know herself what really was of true emotional importance to her.
Actually if something really bothered her, something deeply serious (e.g., an ill family member), those were the times she tended to go quiet, under react as compared with a NON. That makes sense, since those things that really hurt dropped her out of her manic state to an honest depressive state.

Also, on a personal level I also couldn't help myself, but to try and encourage her to make the distinction. Admittedly I also started tuning her out, and changing subjects. All reasons aside that are about her, I personally just couldn't keep up with her emotional swings and train of thought (i.e., it wore me down) at the expense of drowning out my own thoughts/emotions.

Perhaps your T does hear you, but is trying to encourage an entirely new path, build new habits?

Hope that all makes sense!

Yeah, it makes sense xdude. Thanks. I only went to her 3 times. I need to work out my insurance before I can go back. But it's not even just about the therapist. I mean, I read all these posts, people asking how to avoid or get away from a histrionic. That makes me think that if anyone close to me were to ever find out what I am, they'd cut me off. That's a big fear of mine. Which is why, as much as I want a relationship, at the age of 21 I still haven't been in one. I'm overthinking/overreacting, probably. Or maybe I'm not. I don't know.

Also, not having resources to help HPD individuals help themselves is frustrating. It seems like BPD is taken more seriously. And it feels like the consensus is that no histrionic individual would ever realize what they are and try to change, try to fix themselves.

I don't know, I'm so tired of being like this and feeling like it's out of my control. I'm jealous of normal people. All I want is to just wake up one day and be magically fixed. I just keep picturing a future where I'm even more alone than I feel now. Where I still haven't been in a relationship. Where I don't have kids. I'm all alone. It's like there's no escape from that future. No matter what I do, that will be it for me. And I think about how horrible it felt when I isolated myself thinking that was the only way, that's what was best for everyone. I was so f***ing alone. I thought of suicide every day. Never did anything because I'm too much of a f***ing coward.

I hate the way I am but I also feel it can't be helped. I'm trying to get out and do more things, keep busy. But the more people I'm around, the more I notice my abnormalities. I hate it. I feel trapped.

Yes, I think the lack of material is real, but also understandable. A key reason being -

1.) People with cluster B disorders rarely write lengthy articles, or books, from their point of view (it can be hard enough to speak in therapy or write anonymously).
2.) Honestly, even the professional community would struggle with what to write, other than seek therapy.

It's believed by some that BPD types are the most likely to seek help, and they are the most visibly in need of help, but when it comes to HPD, NPD, ASPD, yea, I think you are correct in believing that there is an assumption (true or not) that these types generally are less inclined to change.

All that written, a few things come to mind -

Self-help material on BPD may still be useful. For those with BPD who are driven by core self-esteem damage, while they may cope somewhat differently than the other cluster B types, the fundamental issue of damaged self is the same.

I suspect you've been told by others, so this is likely a re-iteration, but really at 21 you have plenty of time for relationships. Emotionally you may not feel that way, but hopefully you can at least embrace that intellectually. You are aware you have somethings that need to be dealt with. That already means you are years, decades, even a whole life time ahead of some others who struggle with HPD (some never become self-aware).

Nonexistent wrote:I recently spoke to a therapist about my HPD. I also spoke to her about how I was hating myself and feeling like I don't deserve to live. When I tried to tell her about the intrusive suicidal thoughts I get that I want to stop having, she cut me off. Wouldn't let me finish, changed the subject. It made me upset because here I am trying to get help and she is probably not believing me. That's why I was hesitant to tell her I have it. Because as soon as I mention HPD, it automatically discredits me. It's as if because I'm histrionic, I couldn't possibly have any real feelings, especially self-loathing and suicidal feelings. That's how people think about us. They think we're saying these things for attention. It makes me not want to seek help. It upsets me that they have books for borderline individuals on how to cope, but when I look for something similar for HPD, all I find is forums and articles where nons are asking how to deal with a histrionic. There's nothing out there to help me deal with me.

It makes me feel more alone, like a bad person, like I don't deserve anyone's help. How can I get people to understand that I'm being honest? I'm not exaggerating. I want help. But I feel like it's not actually available. It's pointless to talk to someone who is gonna disregard what you say because they think you must be a liar.

I think I understand what you are saying. As far as psychological conditions go, it seems the Cluster B, especially HPD and AsPD have been relegated to the back of the bus. Its as if people are afraid, have gone too far in being self-protective or paranoid, but to the point that people with these disorders don't get the help or support they need. These are the "demonized" disorders. I speak as someone whose mother was hospitalized for "hysteria."

Personally my traits of this disorder, if I have them, manifest as migraines when emotions become too intense. Others may see me proclaiming "migraine" and think "malingerer," or attention seeker, etc., but for me, the pain is debilitating and not something I do for attention.

I applaud you for speaking out, and think its only a matter of time until people become more open-minded and compassionate towards these disorders. Thus far, I see people afraid and maybe a bit paranoid they are being "manipulated" or lured into the web of a spider. The more ideal scenario would be for such people to release their anxieties and find more compassion.

Nonexistent wrote:I recently spoke to a therapist about my HPD. I also spoke to her about how I was hating myself and feeling like I don't deserve to live. When I tried to tell her about the intrusive suicidal thoughts I get that I want to stop having, she cut me off. Wouldn't let me finish, changed the subject. It made me upset because here I am trying to get help and she is probably not believing me. That's why I was hesitant to tell her I have it. Because as soon as I mention HPD, it automatically discredits me. It's as if because I'm histrionic, I couldn't possibly have any real feelings, especially self-loathing and suicidal feelings. That's how people think about us. They think we're saying these things for attention. It makes me not want to seek help. It upsets me that they have books for borderline individuals on how to cope, but when I look for something similar for HPD, all I find is forums and articles where nons are asking how to deal with a histrionic. There's nothing out there to help me deal with me.

It makes me feel more alone, like a bad person, like I don't deserve anyone's help. How can I get people to understand that I'm being honest? I'm not exaggerating. I want help. But I feel like it's not actually available. It's pointless to talk to someone who is gonna disregard what you say because they think you must be a liar.

I can totally understand how you feel, and that's actually very rare for me. You should not feel bad about yourself, and you deserve help. All therapists are different, and even without having HPD you can get the wrong one. This may sounds cliche, but don't give up and try to find the right one. I think your therapist is actually ignorant, because there's no proof that HPD's cannot get depressed and/or suicidal. There are people/HPD's on this board who have found a therapist that wanted to help them, so it's not impossible. I am diagnosed with ASPD but I seem to suffer from anhedonia/depression, and it's like the therapists and psychiatrists think I have evil intentions or that the treatments they offer is just a means to an end, which is not the case.

ElephantEyes wrote:...As far as psychological conditions go, it seems the Cluster B, especially HPD and AsPD have been relegated to the back of the bus. Its as if people are afraid, have gone too far in being self-protective or paranoid, but to the point that people with these disorders don't get the help or support they need. These are the "demonized" disorders. ...

I think there is truth in this observation, though I think the social reasons why they are neglected differ. Okay well this won't be entirely politically correct, but at least in my culture, my observation is -

HPD - Is perceived as part of the female equality movement (a reasonable thing), and so not PC to criticize (i.e., to suggest the person is disordered, versus a word like empowered). For males with this disorder, slightly different dynamics, but in both cases, since these types outwardly appear 'happy', there is not much motivation to pursue a deeper understanding.

AsPD - Believed to be un-treatable, even dangerous to become personally involved.

Shorter version - Not sure everyone perceives people with HPD as evil, dangerous, fill in as you like, but yea, both tend to be neglected when it comes to support and treatment.

xdude wrote:

ElephantEyes wrote:...As far as psychological conditions go, it seems the Cluster B, especially HPD and AsPD have been relegated to the back of the bus. Its as if people are afraid, have gone too far in being self-protective or paranoid, but to the point that people with these disorders don't get the help or support they need. These are the "demonized" disorders. ...

I think there is truth in this observation, though I think the social reasons why they are neglected differ. Okay well this won't be entirely politically correct, but at least in my culture, my observation is -

HPD - Is perceived as part of the female equality movement (a reasonable thing), and so not PC to criticize (i.e., to suggest the person is disordered, versus a word like empowered). For males with this disorder, slightly different dynamics, but in both cases, since these types outwardly appear 'happy', there is not much motivation to pursue a deeper understanding.

AsPD - Believed to be un-treatable, even dangerous to become personally involved.

Shorter version - Not sure everyone perceives people with HPD as evil, dangerous, fill in as you like, but yea, both tend to be neglected when it comes to support and treatment.

Yes, I agree.

I just want to add that I also think the PDs are not well understood by the psychiatric community. Since a PD is seen to have psychodynamic causes rather than neurochemical, which can be easier to see and understand, with the medical model.

I think with PDs even HPD or AsPD, there are deeper motivations which can be looked at that are below the surface behaviors, and by exploring that one will get closer to finding a cure or treatment. For instance instead of writing off an AsPD as an immoral person to be feared and avoided, finding out how or why this person has become this way, while of course also protecting oneself from danger. Because yes one probably will get bitten if they get too close.

I just think the field of psychology has room to improve when it comes to the PDs.

Agree.

I do observe one other difference that may be relevant...

BPD types tend to have fewer coping mechanisms, and (I believe) more likely to express what is going on with them from their POV.

NPD maybe less so, but I'm reminded of Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited: Sam Vaknin. That's just one book, but it makes me wonder if NPD types are slightly more inclined to open up.

I have my own personal experiences with AsPD, and just my observation, but for reasons I won't go into (would require a LONG post), I believe (right or wrong) it's exceeding rare for these types to express openly, without the defensive shield.

HPD is more murky (again a personal observation). They may and do but the personal insights are short in duration.

Again, shorter version, but for professionals to improve their outlook it would help if people with HPD and AsPD would meet them halfway, or one tenth of the way. These disorders may not be conducive to that though, which means, a stand-off.

Great points. I've not known anyone diagnosed with AsPD so I am only speaking from what I've seen on this forum.

People who post here are possibly not fully representative, but its a start.

Maybe those with comorbidities such as BPD/AsPD can provide the bridge.

There is also that sociopathic law professor that writes a blog and books anonymously.

-- Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:46 am --

PS Sorry OP hope this isnt derailing your thread too much.