HPDs and sex

Hi...

I just read a very interesting book "Malignent Self-love" which happens to be one of the best books I have ever read ... in reference to personality disorders.

Wow - Wow!

According to the Author (who happens to be an HPD/NPD), men with this type of disorder don't like having sex. They only use it if and only if the 'victim' requires it in the relationship... as most relationships do anyways.

When I read this, I was in shock. My boyfriend (now ex) always came over my house and he wanted to have sex right away. I used to question this because he really wasn't that turned on to even have sex. But now I now that he was giving me sex in exchange of the intimacy that I of course required.

Something I noticed last week when we were having sex was that he turned me around (doggie style) and when I turned my head to look at him, he had a 'disgusted' look that really scared me. I didn't say anything because I thought that that was the face he puts when he's having an orgasm ... but that's not the face I have seen when we have face to face sex.

In any event, this is what I read in the book in regard to this matter...


"To the NPD, sex is just another Source of Supply. It has no "extra dimensions" which set it apart from non-sexual Narcissistic Supply. It has no emotional complement or correlate. It is just a thing one has to do either to maintain a Secondary Source of Supply (in the case of cerebral narcissists) - or to obtain Primary Supply (in the case of a somatic narcissist).

I understand the above refers to an NPD... but the author is also HPD I believe. Can anyone tell me if in fact an HPD hates sex?

The reason I ask is that my boyfriend broke up with me last week because he said I was too sexual... At that point, I had very little clue of his PD problem. Of course I became confused because the only reason I was having sex with him is because I thought he wanted it. We spend 6 months of our relationship without any physical contact... I believe (or used to) in sex after marriage.

Can anyone give me feedback please.

Thanks.

by the way...

The book can be accessed free online... It is amazing!!!

If your ex boyfriend is an HPD I don't think he was having sex with you to satisfy your needs, rather it was to shore up his lagging self esteem. There's usually a emotional trigger for this sexual acting out.

What probably happened is that he was always feeling depressed and insecure about this relationship-- he feels unworthy and that you will eventually reject him-- and would rush over to your house to gain relief from these feelings by having sex with you.

The scary looking face he had at the time was probably the aggressive tension he was feeling inside himself right before he came over, which he was discharging literally through the sex act.

Now if you were demanding sex all time and he felt if he didn't, you would leave that's a little different. Then it would be correct to say that his initiating sex all the time was to keep you satisfied so you would stick around.

It may be true that the reason he broke up with you is because he couldn't stand the closeness that was required in this relationship. Perhaps because you are in fact healthier than he is and have a greater capacity to be close, which gave him a lot of anxiey.

The excuse of too much sex probably really means too much closeness. He needed to seperate and stop having sex because of his fear of being engulfed by you. Not necessarily physically but emotionally. In reality it wasn't really you it was him and his inability to be intimate. Instead of admitting and dealing with his problem he projected it onto you.

As far as HPD's liking sex it depends on the indivudal. Did your ex have orgasms, did he seem to take pleasure in it? When people really let themselves go when having sex it can be a powerful drive to emotionally intimacy. For some people holding back during sex or abstaining from sex is a defence against being this open and vulnerable. HPD's are no exception.

Did your ex have orgasms, did he seem to take pleasure in it?

(This is not to nitpick your post, Jay, but these are legitimate questions I have about an HPD's sexuality due to my situation as well:) The first part would be at least mostly involuntary, no? But the second part - would an HPD not act like they were taking pleasure in it so the partner doesn't think they're a dud and thereby not keep the attention & approval coming? Acting grateful for the attention, or just not wanting to deal with any disappointment - especially with male HPDs since they do the hyper-masculine thing, a role in which they HAVE to like sex just bcuz they're male? I mean, really how much can we believe from how they seem?

(Sorry if this doesn't make too much sense...I really should go night-night!)[/i]

Hi 99

Can you explain more about the hyper masculine thing?
Thanks

Thank you for the replies.

I have spent the past several days in total shock! I didn't really know what it meant to be an HPD/NPD. I'm still trying to put things into perspective.

We have been together for almost a year now, but we have broken up probably 10 times ... for short periods of time.

By reading the book, I've realized that he's also NPD. He has never complimented anything but my 'beauty'. In fact, last week I asked him why he kept on coming back if he didn't want to be intimate with me (emotionally) and he gave me a blank look (as HPD do) and said.... "well, I try to get away from you but everytime I see you at the gym... you're so f*king beautiful... Ihe can't let you go". Of course, I heard this for the first few months and I was flattered but lately I was like ... beauty is not the only quality I posssess.

In any event, he has always been under the impression that I want sex all the time. I don't... but I like being in bed with him because that's the only time I get to be intimate with him. Now I understand why he rushes sex .... so that he can get out quickly.

For instance... he has never spent the night with me. I had always questioned that. The other night, I told him that I really wanted him to stay. He seemed trouble by it.. but he said ... ok... but don't go crazy tomorrow. I asked him what he meant ...but he didn't respond.

He went to bed... he asked me to give him oral sex... then asked me to get on top of him, and as soon as he had an orgasm (1 minute), he asked me if I would be upset if he just left. I was so upset that I had to trough him out.

The next day he called and said ... thank you for last night... I know you hate my guts... but saying thank you is the right thing to do. I was so confused.

That's when I began to search the net about a possible condition... and HPD is what I came up with.

Strangely enough... I've done some serious soul searching this week, and I realized that I really don't know him at all. ... nothing... nothing from his past... nothing about his friends... nothing about his family.... NOTHING.

I've been so naive!!!

I do have one other question.... I know HPDs are human beings... but do they feel like they're a human being... or do they feel like they are a "thing'. I don't know that my ex has any emotions "good or bad" about anything. If so, he's not behaving like a person. What is he? What does a person with HPD wants?Does he enjoys inflicting pain on people because he's suffering? I have so many questions....

Thank you so much.

Jay... he enjoys when I touch him... when I kiss his nipples (he loves that). We could be having a conversation and he point his nipples with his finger... almost saying "kiss them". But he doesn't seem to enjoy the actual act. His orgasms are quick... very quick. And he doesn't kiss me during sex either. He has a blank look ... and almost an anxiety look when he's in me.

I never questioned him because I though that that's the way he was during sex.... but now I think I know. He was horrified of feeling out of control during sex... especially being intimate.

What the heck....

You've given a lot of interesting information. Let me ask this: Why have you broken up 10 times in the past year or so? What was it that lead up to and caused the breakup? This could be a big clue.

When you asked him why he keeps coming back if he doesn't want intimacy you literally confronted him with his problem quite nicely, his response was telling and answered your question. He said I keep needing to get away. What he's saying is yea your right I run everytime intimacy is around. That's what he's afraid of, that's why he runs away for a little while. His fear of abandonment is just as great so he eventually comes back.

That's also why he never spends a night with you, too much closeness, too much engulfment. He's projecting a lot too. For instance when he says don't go crazy tomorrow. I think what he means by this is don't start attacking or abusing me. He also assumes you want sex all the time. This is something left over from his past that he's putting on you.

I think he does enjoy sex. But it also gives him great anxiety because of what it entails. Which is too much physical and emotional closeness for his liking. As soon as he has sex with you he feels the need to get away. It's just too much for him to handle at that point. You said during sex he has a blank look and a lot of anxiety, a fear of being out of control. To me he sounds like he's trying to hold a lot of emotions and feelings in. He's blocking out and numbing himself, trying hard not to be vulnerable.

Having sex with someone is a powerful drive to intimacy and vulnerability. He's been holding that in but it hasn't been easy for him. What he's afraid of is being rejected if he shows himself in a genuine way. Not rejected by you really but by the parents in his head. This fear is from the past which he projects in the here and now onto other people in his life.

It's interesting whenever you threw him out and he called the next day he didn't seem very upset about it. I think it's because he planned this all along to keep the relationship from progressing.

He thanked you for god's sake!

This is what he was hoping for and it played out perfectly.

This is another way of him keeping you and the relationship at a distance. That way he can have you around where he wants you---not too close and yet not too far---without feeling all that anxiety.

You've come to the sad realization that there was nothing between the two of you. No knowledge of each other, no intimacy, no real emotion. He's just not capable of that. I think you are and that's what was so threatening to him. You wanted more but he just couldn't give it.

To answer your question: A lot of the time they do feel like an empty object or thing. They feel boring and worthless deep down inside. Deviod of normal feelings. It's no wonder they seek out others for gratification. HPD's are human of course and they do have emotions and feelings like the rest of us. The problem is that they cannot express them without devastating anxiety and depression. In fact, many of their feelings are unknown to them, that's how cutoff they are from themselves. This stems from their early childhood.

Whenever they tried to be real they were punished and rejected. To further prevent this they stopped being real and did what their caregiver wanted. They developed a False Self. They walled off long ago all that they could've been for fear of devastating abandonment. This is what motivates who they are. Keep the feeling of love alive and the pain away by not being themselves. By being cut off from all their humanness.

As adults they repeat the same pattern of interaction with lovers and friends and co workers. Projecting the parents image onto anybody their in contact with. Looking to others to care for them without them giving anything of themselves. They see this as normal. On a deeper level their still looking for the parents they never had. Trying to get unstuck from the childhood stage their mired in, unable to find a way out. When people do not give them what they want the repressed anger they have toward their parents is dumped on them.

This is what acounts for the seemingly hurtful, bizarre and confusing behavior that HPD's exhibit most of the time. What people don't realize is that the HPD on the other end was never seeing them for who they really were. It was the parental image that was being projected on them. So It wasn't really you he was hurting and hating it was someone else. He just couldn't see that at the time.And yes he did enjoy the pain inflicted on you because he thought it was justified. In his distorted thinking you deserved it. Not true though.

Jay,
Your reply made me realized so much! He's indeed troubled by his past. He never wants to talk about it though.

He lived with his alcoholic mother all of his life... she died 3 years ago when she was still young. His father had an affair with his mother that produced 3 boys... he's the middle one. The father, however, had a family of his own. The affair continued for 30 years until the father died.

Once I asked him if he loved his mother... and he said something to the effect of "I took her to the doctor, to church, and to her AA meetings... so I guess I did love her". The he said that he didn't want to talk about it further.

The other day, I cooked a nice meal for him. He was complimenting my cooking and thank me for cooking for him. I told him that I love cooking for him but that I didn't want him to look at me as his 'mother figure'. He immediately looked at me and asked "how do you know how I feel about my mother" (he seemed upset). I then said... "you're right, I don't. But I said that because most relationship go down the drain when the boyfriend/husband looks at the partner as a mother." He didn't reply.

We have broken up probably more than 10 times in the past. He has always done something to initiate the break up. He doesn't brake up with me... but he does things that he knows will make me brake up with him. For instance, he had an affair with someone that works at the same gym we go to. The other times have been things like him dissapearing for a few days and not returning my calls...

I am onto his game now though.

I have to say that your response made me very sad though. He's obviously a troubled soul... and it brakes my heart to know that he's trying to escape from his past.

Regretfully, I was so upset the other day (when he left right after sex) that I wanted to get back at him. I told him that I was pregnant. He seemed so confused but wanted to be there for me. I told him that I wanted an abortion (which I've told him I would never do - I am a Christian), and he went crazy. He beg me not to do it and said that he would be there for me (financially) all the way. It wasn't the response I was expecting so I told him the next day that I had made up the story to see if he cared about me. As soon as I came clean (I felt so horrible for doing that to him), it was almost like he 'deleted' the incident from his memory card. I was, once again, in shock! We never talked about it again.

Couple of days later, he said that I was too good of a person to be with him... that he couldn't give me what I wanted... and that it was better if we departed from each other's life. I told him that I agreed with him and that was it. I've called him couple of times to check on him but he didn't return my calls. This morning I sent him a text telling him that I knew he was punishing me for what I had done and that I had no problems deleting him also from my memory card.... he called in less than a minute.

The worst thing about this is that I know how to manipulate him now... and he knows that I can manipulate him... something that I'm not willing to do to have him in my life.

I'm not going to hurt him by ignoring him but I will never want him in my life again. He's toxic and I feel he has injected me with his poison. It 's time for me to detox and move on with my life.

Thank you so much for letting me vent.