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an interesting argument

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an interesting argument

Postby warum » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:24 am

Below please find a long text which I'd saved, and came accross when looking at my files. It might have been posted at this forum or somewhere else. Since I like his observations I wanted to post it here (or again). If the author is here I'd appreciate if he'd acknowledge it. Although often repetitive, the text is very insightful.


This whole thing about people with HPD having empathy and feeling
geuine emotions is not, in my opinion totally accurate. All Cluster
B's share some very important traits which are outlined below:

Typical Cluster B stuff: Controlling, abusive, irrational, erratic.
It's all about attention. She needs to be the center of attention and
does not care about anyone else. She will say or do whatever she feels
like, which means whatever gets her attention. She does not like you,
never did like you. You were just a source of "supply." Nothing more.
Sources are people who provide admiration, attention, adulation, love,
drama, and can be manipulated and controlled. It gives the Cluster B a
sense of power and worth. It is their way. It is their only way.
Everything else is an illusion. She conned you. Of course, as you are
well aware, there were huge red flags waving savagely in front of your
face and loud sirens screaming in your ears. But you did not see, nor
did you hear. You were smitten. You thought you were special. She
"liked" you. Well. We've all been there, so don't feel bad about being
a target, and don't feel special. We've all been there. They use us,
then discard us when they are done with us. They do come back, I hope
you know that, to suck you dry if they can, so be prepared for it. You
should run away, have no contact whatsoever with her, and learn as
much as you can about these human parasites, vampires, and predators!
All Cluster Bs are addicted to attention, admiration, sex, lust, being
wanted, desired, romanced, etc., known as narcissistic supply, or just
supply. They are erratic and have no emotional consistency and no
impulse control. They are emotional hemophiliacs. So, at any moment
they can feel totally infatuated with someone, but the feeling is fake
in the sense that it exists in order to get supply. Getting married is
one way to get supply. Taking a partner as far as possible is part of
the drama. But infatuations shift, emotions change, and newness is
required in order to get supply. They DO want commitment, but it is
inconsistent. They want commitment from one person, then they meet
someone else who gives better, newer supply. Also, they have no
impulse control, so will act without thinking simply to get supply
right away. They are never sick of jumping from one person to another,
just as a drug addict is never sick of getting drugs. It is how they
get supply. What they get sick of is being in a relationship that is
steady. That is death to them. They need change, drama, new trends,
excitement, and constant attention. It must be very tiring to be
constantly looking for something new.
People with cluster B personality disorder use humans as objects. They
easily move from one to another just as we get a new couch. They
commonly have someone in waiting; cheating and lying are reflexes for
them. They are pathological liars. Yes, you were used. It was "fake"
in the sense that a small child "loves" a bicycle until a new one
comes along, then the bike is discarded. You were a bike. That's the
way it is with them. Get used to it, or get out. No contact is the
best. You're right, it's serious business to mess with someone's heart
and emotions. But Cluster B's don't care. Do you care about the
feelings of the objects around you? Cluster B's know you have
feelings, they just don't care. They use your feelings to get what
they want: attention, adoration, sex, being wanted, etc. Then you are
discarded when someone else can provide better supply.
Just remember this: Cluster B's are children, manipulators who cannot
regulate their emotions, they cannot relate normally, they use people
as objects to satisfy their need for attention, dependency, sex,
romance, and obsession, they are fakes, psychopaths, you cannot
believe what they say or do because it is just role-playing to get
people to respond, no one person can satisfy them, they have to play
their game with many people, usually more than one at a time, they are
10 years old emotionally, they are mentally ill, they have no
conscience, cannot view another person as a human being, we are just
objects that supply their needs of attention, they want us to need
them, they are cruel and unpredictable.
Their words are just words. They are used to get the attention,
dependency, love, affection, etc. that she needs. They are
manipulations. They are not true feelings; I don't think she can feel
anything but immature excitement, physical pleasures, and depression.
Love or affection as normal people know it are things she cannot feel,
so she desperately needs to get them from others whom she then
identifies with. She gets her identity by preying on others. She
manipulates them into a love dependency, an obsession with her, then
identifies with that to get the love she needed during childhood but
did not get. Then when done, she moves on to the next victim, and we
are left hanging, confused, shocked, damaged! They are not capable of
mature love, they are like children who need attention and affection,
so they get it however they can. It doesn't really matter to them who
they get it from, in fact, one person cannot satisfy their needs, so
they will continually jump from one relationship to another, often
overlapping, and will dive into intimacy right away in order to get
the love and obsession they want and need from others. They have
little or no conscience about what they do, it is part of their nature
and they consider it normal. They do not empathize with others, and
therefore have little insight into how hurtful their behaviors are.
These people are so cruel and hurtful. It is wrong to think of them as
normal. When we remember the good times, we must also remember that
they were fake. They were role playing for us to get their needs met.
They need a daddy, sex, to be wanted, an obsession for them. They get
their self esteem by being desired sexually. They mirror us in order
to get that. It is a fix, it is their drug, to use people.
Manipulation and control, domination and dependency are what they want
and need. It is hard to understand.
Are they Evil? Yes and no, depends on what you mean. They know what
they are doing, like a child knows. When a child yells "I hate you,"
is he evil? Well, he knows what he is saying, and he is feeling it,
yet it is not an adult feeling of "hate," the child doesn't know what
that is. The child is saying it to get his way. Now, in the same
manner, people with cluster B personality disorder are like children.
Their true self is so hidden that even they don't have access to it.
They show us a false self, a mask, a fake persona meant to get
attention, adulation, sex, dependency, etc. They act on that false
self and do what they have learned will work. They don't feel remorse,
though they can pretend to feel remorse if it gets them attention.
They don't feel mature love, though they say they do and pretend they
do in order to control us and get adulation. They do what works,
reflexively. Do they know what they are doing? Yes, the same way a 4
year old does. But their knowledge does not connect with their
feelings. They don't care what they do. They don't care if it hurts us
or not. They might "know" that their actions hurt us, but they don't
care so long as they get attention. They only care when attention is
cut off. Then they move on to the next source, or find a way to
aggravate us. Even negative attention is desired, because it makes
them feel powerful, important, and in control. Is that evil? Well, I
often say it is. What do you think? How do you like being treated like
an object? They don't love us, they use it. They don't care for us,
they manipulate us to get their needs met. Evil?
It's not that they don't know, it's that it doesn't matter to them. Do
you care what you say to your refrigerator? To a pencil? You say
whatever is necessary to get what you need. These people want
attention, adoration, sex, to be desired, to be worshipped, etc. They
"know" what they are doing, but don't care one way or the other. They
use people to get attention and adulation to feed their false sense of
themselves. They know they are doing something hurtful, but will do it
if it gives them attention. If kicking the refrigerator door will open
it, then you kick it. You know it's hurting the refrigerator, but you
don't care. These people cannot empathize with other people. They
can't feel that we have feelings. They "know" we have feelings, but it
doesn't connect to their emotions. They don't "feel" that we have
feelings. Even if they did, they would still act the same because it
is a reflex to support their need (they are addicted) for attention
and admiration. They are children who have no true sense of self. They
are machines!
All Cluster Bs are addicted to supply. They use words as tools to get
people to react, so they can get sympathy, drama, attention,
admiration, even anger. If you react to them, it means they are
powerful and important, capable of controlling people, and using them.
Cluster Bs do not use words to communicate, to help, to ask for
advice, or to give support. They are only pretending to do that. They
might not even know what they are doing themselves, some of the time.
For nons, it is sooooo easy to get sucked in, to read (or hear) what a
Cluster B says and react as if the words mean what such words usually
mean. But, sadly, they do not. It is an act, role playing, a gimmick,
a means to an end. An angry reply is as good as a sympathetic reply.
To the Cluster B, all such replies are supply. Supply, supply, supply,
that is why they are here, that is why they are there, that is why
they are everywhere. When will you learn?
Words are useless. Cluster B's push buttons. They don't use words to
communicate, they use them to get supply. They say this, then that,
they say anything... whatever makes you give them attention or create
drama or make them the center of your universe or get whatever they
want at that particular moment. They are robots. They cannot
empathize. They don't know what it's like to be a human being, so they
can't imagine what we are experiencing. They are self-absorbed on
their false selves. They are addicted to supply. Words, like any of
their actions, are used only to get supply. It is pointless to use
words for communication. That will not work! They idealize, and then
eventually devalue. Moving on is what it is all about. They need to
move on before they are found out. They need to recreate themselves.
They need someone new, someone for whom they can create a new illusion
and get drenched in attention, admiration, adulation, sex, lust, and
caring. Eventually, that gets old, and then it's off to another
target. I think it is rare that personality disorders change very
much, and it is not possible for Cluster Bs to show and feel mature,
adult love that includes impulse control, empathy, and caring.
These people are not really there. There is no one there. They live
with a false self. The true self is buried so deep even they do not
have access to it. They are emotional hemophiliacs. Their emotions
shift faster than the wind. They are doing something like
role-playing. They are addicted to the goodies of a relationship:
attention, adoration, sex, lust, romance, admiration, control, drama,
etc., and will do anything, anything, anything, to keep it going. But
they are not addicted to the source of such goodies, so will easily
move to another new, more interesting source.

Although their begging seems real, it is not. Even to them it seems
real, because they live with their false self. But it is a charade.
They are master manipulators. They feel emotions, have desires, but
these things shift rapidly. They may sometimes mean what they say, but
even then, it will quickly change. Other times they do not mean what
they say at all, they are saying it to get what they want, to control,
to create drama, to act out.
Cluster Bs react predominantly from unconscious needs. It's not that
they don't have emotions, they do, they are just not consistent, and
are childish. It's not that they don't feel something for us, they do,
they are just not consistent about it and don't have empathy. For
example, when you are eating a delicious meal, are you enjoying it? Is
it a scam? You enjoy it, but only for a while. Then you want a
different meal. You don't want the same thing over and over again.
It's similar to that with Cluster Bs. Yes, they do appear cold at
times, because they are. But at other times they are warm. Are they
faking? Yes, in a way, but not totally. They are not entirely in touch
with their own true feelings, so it is fake even for them. It is more
like role playing. Cluster Bs are self absorbed. They are totally
selfish and self-centered.
Cluster Bs are addicted to supply. They need it constantly. If they
can get it from old sources, they will. She is fishing for supply.
Also, just writing to you or calling you gives her supply because in
her mind she is contacting you and imagining your reaction/emotions.
Cluster Bs love drama, they live on it, they need it. They also feel
that they "own" people they have gotten supply from. Hoovering occurs,
then, as 1) a fishing expedition for more supply from an easy source;
2) a vicarious source of supply through imagining your emotional
reaction; and 3) a way of controlling and staying in contact with a
person they own. You are right to ignore the hoovers. It is the only
way they will stop. But it might take a while.
From what I have read, it is typical of Cluster Bs to be constantly on
the prowl. However, active seduction and seeking takes energy, so
often they take a break, a rest, for a few months before starting
another fishing expedition. But it depends on the situation. It is not
uncommon for Cluster B's to change jobs, schools, residences, etc. in
order to look for more victims. They are constantly on the lookout,
like addicts. They are addicted to attention, adoration, being wanted,
and desired, so they are always watching for an opportunity to suck
someone in.
What I have heard over and over is that Cluster Bs do not have object
constancy. That is, they have a difficult time thinking about someone
who is not present. They are like infants in that regard. So, it means
that they do not miss people from their pasts since they cannot
conceptualize them. It seems to be the nature of Cluster Bs to think
of people as interchangable. One is no better than another, so long as
they provide attention, lust, sex, adoration, and caring.
People with Cluster B personalities do not form emotional connections.
They are incapable of sustaining a relationship. They are erratic and
inconsistent. Their brains are wired differently than normal people,
apparently as a result of certain genetic factors as well as early
experiences. Cluster Bs are not all the same, however. Although, they
do have similar characteristics. For example, they do not have a
strong inner self, have weak ego boundaries, and lack object constancy
(out of sight, out of mind). They have a tendency to get bored easily
and need constantly to be doing new things, moving, changing jobs,
changing boyfriends, and so on. They have a problem with impulse
control, as well as with morality. Therefore, it is easy for them, in
fact desirable for them, to move from one person to another. It is a
fun game for them to take a relationship as far as they can, to get as
much from a mate as they can. They are constantly after attention,
love, lust, adulation, and admiration. But they constantly need new
sources of such supply. They are often compared to children; in fact,
emotionally, they are stuck in childhood. Cluster Bs are pretty much
addicted to attention, adulation, and adoration ("supply"), and are
constantly trying to get it. They are suffering, but not as much as
they imply. Just as when they pretend to be normal; they are not as
normal as they appear. Getting attention is part of their
manipulation. Manipulation is for attention. Cluster Bs are constantly
thinking about it and planning it. It is what they do. They are
addicted.
It is easy, even necessary, for such a person to move on to new
relationships. It is similar to people buying new clothes. After a
while, one gets tired of their clothes. They were fine clothes at one
time, but now it's time for some new ones. So, out go the old clothes,
which are replaced by different ones that bring more satisfaction. One
doesn't worry about the old clothes. Cluster Bs have no sense of
emotional connection to people; we are like objects to be used to
them. So moving on is easy and necessary. Cluster Bs are addicted to
supply. They learn very effective techniques of extracting supply
(vampiring) from others. When the supply gets old or boring, they
simply devalue and discard the source and move on to another source.
The "poor victim" technique is one of the more effective means to get
supply, but there are many, many others.
For those of us who do form emotional connections, this is very
difficult to understand and appreciate. We feel used. In fact, we
were. Just as your old clothes were used by you. But the Cluster B
feels no remorse or loss, just as you feel no remorse or loss about
your old clothes. The Cluster B knows that you have feelings, and that
your feelings were hurt; but she doesn't care. If she cares at all,
she is happy. She feels good about hurting you because it means she is
powerful, important, and cared about. She also feels good about
leaving because she is free to start again without you hanging around
holding her back. She also gets to start over again with someone new
so she can redefine herself. She can be someone new, maybe someone who
won't be so troubled. But of course, that won't happen. She will
continue the cycle. She will fall in and out of love on a whim. She
will use people for her own selfish purposes and have no remorse about
it. She might say she is sorry, but will continue to smile and cheat
and lie. It is her nature. She cannot communicate like a normal
person. She is a Cluster B. Communication is futile. She is Borg. She
is a zombie. There is nothing she could say or do that could make any
difference, because she is not real. She is a lie. She has no self.
She has no empathy She has no identity. She is a user. She is nothing
but a mean, cruel, psychopathic user. Her promises mean nothing. She
is a psychopathic liar. She is capable of anything at anytime, on a
dime she will turn on you if it means that new "supply" is
forthcoming!
People with Cluster B personality disorders use the word love in two
ways: 1) to get what they want; it is just an instrument, a ploy, like
so many other of their behaviors, that is likely unconscious,
instinctive, and used to get a reaction, attention, love, adulation,
and admiration, as well as feelings of control, power, manipulation,
and importance. And 2) they use the word love like we do, or like a
child does, when talking about an object. I love my car. I love my
bed. It is an expression that means you want something, enjoy it, and
desire it. What it does NOT mean: You care about it's feelings
separate from your own, you care about it's well being separate from
what you can get from it, and you are concerned for it's welfare.
Cluster B's love their soulmates in the way that we love sushi or our
cars or the new sweaters we got. They do feel love for us, the same
way we feel love for objects. Meaning, they do not feel mature, adult
love that involves empathy. Their love is either manipulative or
selfish or both.
Cluster Bs don't have empathy, so are unable to imagine (or care) what
other people are feeling. They are totally absorbed with getting
attention, admiration, adulation, etc., which is called "supply." They
use other people as sources of supply. Other people are essentially
viewed as objects. Like we would use a pencil or a refrigerator to get
what we want, Cluster Bs use people to get supply. They "love" the
supply, not the person. It's similar to loving your refrigerator
because it gives you what you want. Intellectually they know that the
other person "loves" them, but they don't feel it emotionally, so can
easily hurt the person they supposedly love, and can easily leave the
person when the supply is no longer adequate. Do you feel loved by
your refrigerator? Why would you care what your refrigerator feels?
Just so it gives you what you want. Cluster Bs use drama, raging,
erratic behavior, manipulation, lies, deceit, and anything else that
will get them the supply they crave. They "love" supply, not people.
They might say they love people, but they mean something different
than we do. Would you treat someone you "love" in a mean and cruel
way? Of course not. They mean about the same thing that we mean when
we say we love some food, or we love our car, or we love our
refrigerator. We mean we love what we get from it, how it serves our
needs, how it supplies us with what we want, how it gives us emotions.
We will quickly discard it when it doesn't give us what we want, or
when another one comes along that gives better supply. If you love a
person, you don't treat him/her cruelly. A Cluster B will say they
"love," but a personality disordered person either does not know what
they're talking about because they don't have a normal brain, nor
normal empathy, or they are distorting or lying, or they are confused
by their own lack of self-awareness, introspection, and cognitive and
perceptual problems.
Her mind does not work like a normal mind. Words are tools to deceive,
control, manipulate, and extract narcissistic supply. But, they are
amazingly seductive, and it is unfortunately quite easy to use words
to get a person to become very attached to you.

People with Cluster B personality disorders learn how to push buttons
in order to get attention, adoration, love, admiration, etc. One way
is to push people away and watch them beg. This becomes an addiction.
The Cluster B doesn't so much fear abandonment of the person as much
as they fear abandonment of the attention, desire, control, etc.
Cluster Bs use all kinds of techniques to deceive, manipulate, and
control other people in order to get what is called "supply." They
need to be wanted, desired, admired, lusted after, found sexy,
important, etc. Dumping you is a technique of getting you to give
supply. There are many such techniques. A Cluster B does not have
empathy, therefore thinks of you as an object. This is why it is so
easy for them to treat you erratically. They just want supply. They
will do whatever they need to in order to get it. When they can't get
it, they move on to another source. No regrets or sorrow or mourning
over the loss of YOU, only over the loss of supply!
The actions of Cluster B's don't make logical sense. They never will.
Those actions are completely irrational, sinister and messed up. We
can never really understand what motivates them to do what they do --
but we can know for sure, that they will repeat the same destructive
patterns over-and-over again throughout their lifetimes - and never
escape the self-created cesspool that is their very existence. Too bad
for them. I feel most sorry for the lovers they've yet to meet. Our
exes will continue to seek out and damage new "supply" as they have
damaged us - and leave nothing but emotional chaos in their wake from
now until they die.
netcong asks if it is all manipulation, and stirfried asks if it is
all fake for pretend. But the way I see it is that the Cluster B
personality is not in touch with their "true" self, if they have such
a concept. They are not faking, exactly; rather, they are false. It is
similar to the idea of a mannequin. A mannequin is not faking being a
person. A manneqin is a fake person! A Cluster B personality is not
faking their self concept and personality; rather, they are a fake
self and personality. It isn't that there is a mean, evil person on
the inside and they are pretending to be nice. Rather, their nice self
is fake. They don't know anything else. This fake person does what
they need to do (and becomes what they need to become) in order to get
their needs met. It isn't that they are faking or pretending exactly.
They don't know they're doing it. This fake person, of course, will
lie, cheat, abuse, deceive, and manipulate in order to get what they
want. The fake self has very little morality or superego. The fake
self also has very few ego boundaries, so the personality can swing
over vast extremes, unlike a true personality. Could you switch your
beliefs, values, moods, and behaviors very widely? Probably not.
Because your self concept is true and pretty well set. But if you have
simply adopted a false self in order to function, to get attention,
drama, love, etc., then that false self can vary tremendously in
values, behaviors, concepts, thoughts, memories, and defense
mechanisms. So, faking is not exactly what is going on. The false self
does lie, fake, manipulate, etc. But it also can be kind, loving,
gentle, and compassionate if those behaviors will get it what it
wants.
My ex looks and acts like a sweet, loving, romantic, kind, caring
woman, but she is hiding a secret. Cluster Bs love their secrets!She
is a Lolita seductress who uses men for sex, attention, power,
control, admiration, love, lust, and feelings of superiority. Of
course, she is very good at it, and her current soulmate has no idea.
She is only 26 and living with (and cheating on) her fourth man that I
know of. She has been married, divorced, and engaged
Yes, they want drama. They live on drama. They want attention,
control, manipulation, adoration. They learn ways that work. What
usually works is intermittent reinforcement. They get angry, surly,
insulting, abusive.... and then loving, kind, romantic. The angry part
enables them to work out emotions they have left over from childhood;
anger at mom and dad. Then they get loving in order to control you,
feel important and loved, get drama and attention, all things that
feed their needs. This intermittent reinforcement works, just like a
slot machine. And, they learn that it works and become addicted to it.
It is mostly unconscious. They rage, insult, pout, go silent...
whatever gets you upset. They feel powerful, in control, needed and
loved, if you get upset. Then they turn to romance for more feelings
of power, plus attention, adoration, love, lust, etc. They are in
relationships with people in order to get attention and drama. Hurting
someone gives them that.
What does a con artist give you?

They want your trust. The "con" stands for confidence. They want you
to have confidence in them. Once they have that, then they pull the
con. They use you.

What do Cluster B's give you? They give you a facade, a fake self, a
tall tale. When you fall for it, when you give your confidence, then
they pull the rug out from under you.

They live for supply. They are addicted to drama and using people.
They do not have real, true selves, so the person you knew was fake,
role-playing, a lie. A lie to them too; that's why it seemed so real.
What can a role-player do for you? Why, play a role, of course.

You got taken. You got used. To some extent it likely was conscious,
purposeful. But to some extent it was just the way they are
programmed. They use people the way we use objects. And they care
about people the same way and the same amount that we care about
objects. What does an object give you?

You got a false self. What they give is a con. They role-play. They
are playing the role of a human being. They are not faking; they are
fake. They are fake human beings. They seem so real because they live
the fake too. For a while. Then they morph into another false self.
Rage, cheat, lie, tease, abuse, rant, scream, make craziness, and then
be loving, kind, sexy, romantic.... it is all their false selves
seeking drama, attention, love, admiration, and the like.

What do they give you? Trouble.

And, of course, a broken heart, a loss of innocence, a loss of trust,
confusion, lack of closure, and huge regret.
The Cluster B has a false self. They are presenting a person who is
not real. They are presenting a "loving" person. Even if they can
love, it is only a pretend, or role-playing, love, since it is not
their real self. This means it can change on a dime as their false
self changes. Dissociation means that the Cluster B personality can
become someone else, though they don't change identity. This
dissociation allows them to be someone else, in a sense. They can be a
certain person with you, but a different person with someone else.

This is not provided here to be in any way cruel or mean, this is
provided here because it is the truth and the reality of the Cluster B
and that includes Histrionics. I know what I am talking about here, as I have been the unwitting victim of a Cluster B at my former work and I no longer have a job there because of her.
warum
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Postby KontrollerX » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:28 pm

This post was on the sosuave.com forums before it was here since you were wondering.

A poster named Mike posted it there from another place he found it online and never mentioned the name of the forum it originated from.

A reg from the Sosuave forums named Blue Phoenix has stopped by our HPD board from time to time under another name and I think it was either he or Mike himself that posted it here.

Sosuave is a total relationship improvement type of site and they have had many different posters throughout the years that have been affected by HPD's and other Cluster B's so there's lots of information there similar to what can be found here in addition to the advice on how to deal with normal people in relationships.
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Postby Racer_X » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:39 pm

Yeah, I'd say that hits the mark. I also wish there was a Cliff notes version :lol:
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Postby Apache » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:43 pm

I found it incredibly inaccurate. Perhaps because it blur's the distinctions and blankets all Axis II PD's with his opinion's. What would apply to some, wouldnt to other's.
“Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.”

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Postby Racer_X » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:39 pm

Good point. I'd say it applies fairly to HPD, not all cluster B in general
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Postby Roni » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:25 pm

I've often thought of the "intermittent reinforcement" aspect of my relationship with an HPD. It's part of what has made me see the relationship as abusive (emotionally). That is, he is cruel and uncaring, which makes me very distraught, then he becomes comforting and sweet, and takes on the role of comforter!! It really is sick. Also, I've come to realize that there is no "good" time to leave him. When he is being sweet, I don't want to leave, and when he is being mean, I'm desperate to make him see reason and remember that he cares about me and turn back into Mr. Nice. (Ridiculous, I know.) I've thought back about the state of things in my past relationships when they've broken up. I think my past break-ups have generally been when both me and my partner felt kindly toward each other but realized that we weren't "in love" anymore. That stage never occurs with my HPD. Things are always very intense - intense "love" or intense conflict/despair.
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Postby ANYGUY » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:32 am

They also feel
that they "own" people they have gotten supply from. Hoovering occurs,
then, as 1) a fishing expedition for more supply from an easy source;
2) a vicarious source of supply through imagining your emotional
reaction; and 3) a way of controlling and staying in contact with a
person they own. You are right to ignore the hoovers. It is the only
way they will stop. But it might take a while.


This I can understand. but doesn't the following quote jeapardize their way of staying in contact?

What I have heard over and over is that Cluster Bs do not have object constancy. That is, they have a difficult time thinking about someone who is not present. They are like infants in that regard. So, it means that they do not miss people from their pasts since they cannot conceptualize them.


If the out of sight out of mind principle applies, then what brings them back? And from what I've seen it might take an extended period of time to show up on the doorstep od someone they "own".

What is it that sparks the HPD to initiate contact?It's seems as though there is a contradiction here or object constancy only applies to the severe HPD. It would be nice to here from an HPD as to why you try to start things up after devaluing that individual? Or do you ever fully devalue that person, no matter how hard you try?
I hope this makes sense.

Anybody?
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Postby ewriter » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:05 pm

after my hpd ended our relationship and ignored all my subsequent attempts to restore contact (to gain some understanding of what happened actually) i eventually stopped calling and texting her. about three months after me stopping this she called me like a friend, like nothing bad had happened between us at all. that time i really was wondering how she could be so forgetful in an emotional way.

i met her again a couple of times only to find out soon that she was already in intimate contact with a new male and have had sex once (the same night i was going out with her :evil:) with one more guy.

after learning of hpd i think due to object inconstancy she really had forgotten me during the three months when we didn´t have contact and probably in a short period of bad or depressive or needy mood and/or after accidentally reading my name in the phonelist of her cell she decided to call me. the first meeting ended in bed having sex, the second her asking me "to be friends", the third her asking "will i see you again?" and the fourth with the incident mentioned above.

so i think because of the object inconstancy they are able to have off/on contacts and relationships, which a not disordered person wouldn´t be able to have.

when being in the relationship with my hpd i also had the feeling that there almost always was a "break" between the last and this time seeing her, even when there was only one day in between. they live from day to day, without a past and a future, which is also a sign for object inconstancy and big red flag, too.
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Postby ANYGUY » Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:10 am

Thanks E-writer, for the insight...

I see a similarity between yours and mine. The only difference is we never got beyond being friends although she acted like I should treat her as my girlfriend. Where I see the similarities is this need to see how much you care about her after she walks off. In my case, her taking on a new job.

I haven't begged or pleaded for her attention, but have e-mailed her only to not have her respond although other coworkers get a quick response from her. This is after the week before having her wanting to spend whatever available time I had, with her. I should add I told her I wouldn't keep the friendship going if she wasn't going to make the effort.

So, with that said is she just testing me to see how serious I am. Or is she just setting me up like a spider would wrap a captured fly to be devoured later. I did see her last night by her approaching me (she's working part time in our office to wrap up some work) she was definitely dressed provacatively. and wearing a piece of jewelry I always liked. But then act as though she was severing all ties.

Is all part of the game? To maintain some element of power over me.

I do know when I did see her recently, she was totally different. Not the warm exciting person I dealt with only a few days before.
She seemed much more distant. Maybe she has a new target to conquer. And after all the hoopla dies down, she'll show up on my doorstep, again.

when being in the relationship with my hpd i also had the feeling that there almost always was a "break" between the last and this time seeing her, even when there was only one day in between. they live from day to day, without a past and a future, which is also a sign for object inconstancy and big red flag, too.


It's funny how you bring this up because my HPD seemed to have difficulty recalling things I've told her the previous day. Often times she will discuss things I e-mailed her months ago. Suggesting she maintained a record because she couldn't remember everything I told her that a normal person would recall. Because I sensed this, I kept our conversations above board. Aside from that. I really felt she had to reaquaint herself with me each and everytime she encountered me. Like she wouldn't be able to offer much of who I am if asked.

Last night I told her next time she comes in to bring Starbucks. She said she will, if she remembers. I guess that's an honest statement. :lol:

One other thing I wanted to add. Is your stating during a time of when they are feeling extremely down, the HPD might happen upon your name, and make contact. I am more inclined to think you were a big source of positive feel good energy, and she in fact chose to call you because of it. In other words, her calling you is less coincedental than you think. I could be wrong, but in dealing with my HPD, she comes across as a great strategist. She plans things and shows great patience. Maybe this is her NPD side.

Right now I'm basically moving on and if she shows up that's great if not that's fine too.
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Postby warum » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am

ANYGUY wrote:
They also feel
that they "own" people they have gotten supply from. Hoovering occurs,
then, as 1) a fishing expedition for more supply from an easy source;
2) a vicarious source of supply through imagining your emotional
reaction; and 3) a way of controlling and staying in contact with a
person they own. You are right to ignore the hoovers. It is the only
way they will stop. But it might take a while.


This I can understand. but doesn't the following quote jeapardize their way of staying in contact?

What I have heard over and over is that Cluster Bs do not have object constancy. That is, they have a difficult time thinking about someone who is not present. They are like infants in that regard. So, it means that they do not miss people from their pasts since they cannot conceptualize them.




Since hpds are small kids emotionally their actions and reactions are childish in many ways. They break up with you for the least important reason, and decide to come back for all sorts of real/unreal reasons. (They might not come back for all sorts of real/imaginary reasons. But my experience and others' on this forum attests that they'll return at least once.)
For hpds, worshipping the partner and devalueing him/her are based on the same thought (instinct?) process, or the lack of. One minute you are king, and the next, you are nobody.
Looking for rational explanations for this type of behaviour is useless. If they could act rationally, they wouldn't be hpds.
Their brains are wired differently. Actually the frontal lobes of their brains are different in several ways than the rest of humans. (I remember reading in several books that their left lobe was either smaller or bigger, indicating that there is a physical/genetical quality as well to this disorder.)
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