feeling hopeless

I feel like I need to truly be loved to get better. Just loved for ME and not all the fake stuff or the flattery or whatever. I stll desperately want to get help and truly get better but it feels impossible. I so desperately need to be loved that I ruined myself chasing after it and now I just sort of hate myself and don't even want to be known anymore, I'm so disgusting. I'm so tired of it all. I just want a sugar daddy who can give me a comfortable life but I feel too ugly to be worth keeping around anyway. I can't get help because I hate myself so much I don't understand why anyone would like me. Then when people do like me or claim to love me I feel like it's not really ME.

And even when I try to get help I just see that I'm playing these same stupid games.. ugh, whatever. How can you win when you're like this? Seriously? I don't know how to be around people who don't or might not like me, it hurts so much but eventually everyone gets tired of my $#%^ anyway and I leave before they can fully realize it

vertices wrote:I feel like I need to truly be loved to get better. Just loved for ME and not all the fake stuff or the flattery or whatever. I stll desperately want to get help and truly get better but it feels impossible. I so desperately need to be loved that I ruined myself chasing after it and now I just sort of hate myself and don't even want to be known anymore, I'm so disgusting. I'm so tired of it all. I just want a sugar daddy who can give me a comfortable life but I feel too ugly to be worth keeping around anyway. I can't get help because I hate myself so much I don't understand why anyone would like me. Then when people do like me or claim to love me I feel like it's not really ME.

And even when I try to get help I just see that I'm playing these same stupid games.. ugh, whatever. How can you win when you're like this? Seriously? I don't know how to be around people who don't or might not like me, it hurts so much but eventually everyone gets tired of my $#%^ anyway and I leave before they can fully realize it

Hey vertices,

So, one thing I have to say is that, the very same fact you're here in this forum writing us points out that you have some sort of introspection, which makes you aware (up to some level) of your problems.
This is indeed a big step forward per se, since many HPDs do not realize they have issues. My compliments!

One question: are you HPD-diagnosed?
And: are you undergoing therapy? If not you should, because it would give you a huge help! Just read the recent posts from pedsmommy!

About love: first you have to learn how to love yourself. Also, I was reading today this very interesting old thread which discusses if HPDs are able to love:

histrionic-personality/topic58212-70.html

This thread is so full of brilliant thoughts, both from NONs and HPDs, that you should really read it: I'm sure you will find many answers inside. And you will reflect about the meaning behind "love".
Keep us updated!

PS: About the question if "HPDs are able to love" my personal answer (and even xdude's one, which is actively writing in this forum and provides many useful insights) is: YES

PS2: just out of curiosity, why you want a sugar-daddy and not, for example, a young man or a man having your same age?

Fr4nz83 wrote:

vertices wrote:I feel like I need to truly be loved to get better. Just loved for ME and not all the fake stuff or the flattery or whatever. I stll desperately want to get help and truly get better but it feels impossible. I so desperately need to be loved that I ruined myself chasing after it and now I just sort of hate myself and don't even want to be known anymore, I'm so disgusting. I'm so tired of it all. I just want a sugar daddy who can give me a comfortable life but I feel too ugly to be worth keeping around anyway. I can't get help because I hate myself so much I don't understand why anyone would like me. Then when people do like me or claim to love me I feel like it's not really ME.

And even when I try to get help I just see that I'm playing these same stupid games.. ugh, whatever. How can you win when you're like this? Seriously? I don't know how to be around people who don't or might not like me, it hurts so much but eventually everyone gets tired of my $#%^ anyway and I leave before they can fully realize it

Hey vertices,

So, one thing I have to say is that, the very same fact you're here in this forum writing us points out that you have some sort of introspection, which makes you aware (up to some level) of your problems.
This is indeed a big step forward per se, since many HPDs do not realize they have issues. My compliments!

One question: are you HPD-diagnosed?
And: are you undergoing therapy? If not you should, because it would give you a huge help! Just read the recent posts from pedsmommy!

About love: first you have to learn how to love yourself. Also, I was reading today this very interesting old thread which discusses if HPDs are able to love:

histrionic-personality/topic58212-70.html

This thread is so full of brilliant thoughts, both from NONs and HPDs, that you should really read it: I'm sure you will find many answers inside. And you will reflect about the meaning behind "love".
Keep us updated!

PS: About the question if "HPDs are able to love" my personal answer (and even xdude's one, which is actively writing in this forum and provides many useful insights) is: YES

PS2: just out of curiosity, why you want a sugar-daddy and not, for example, a young man or a man having your same age?

Self-awarenss is a funny concept. I can perform self-awareness. I can analyze my behavior to death and a lot of times I have felt like I finally knew myself. In bits and pieces, probably have. My problems got serious very young and I was forced to at least develop some ability to reflect.

Um, I would say the important piece is missing though, I may know the way I am but I don't know WHO I am. I only start to feel like I know who I am when I am loved. But then again I have forced myself to be a lot of things for love, so I don't seem to have a good awareness of who I fundamentaly am. When I'm not longing to be loved by someone I start getting very very unsure of who I am or what I want from life.

I HAvE grown a lot and a large portion of that was thanks to therapy but in therapy we got to a point where I said, well, I'm done. Because I genuinely felt done as soon as I believed that my T loved me. Then after the fact I'm not so sure that I was done or that I was truly loved for who I am, but because of how I ended up behaving.

I won't go back to therapy because I find the professional boundaries to be REALLY uncomfortable. I can't handle sitting there with someone who won't open up about what they feel for me but still clearly feel something. I also don't want to ruin someone's career. In therapy I just kept thinking, why am I in this relationship? I don't like the restrictions. That said, therapy did help me but only to a point because I never 100% believed I was loved for me. Also I think I am too intense for a therapist to handle.

I want a sugar daddy because, well, why does anyone? I need support. Younger guys are insecure and that's ok but I am insecure enough for 2 people and it just doesn't work, I would end up resenting him for my own issues and feeling helpless because he can't provide for me. I feel like I don't really need an SO to love me anymore as long as I am taken care of... and I can take care of his dark side. Maybe deep down I don't like real love, I think it's kind of gross, because I was denied it when I needed it most.

as for dx, why do you care? If the glove fits, right? I was dxed bpd for insurance but imo hpd describes me best. I know borderline behavior well and it's not quite me because I don't have as much access to my emotions as them. DBT was also not helpful. (also I am low functioning for swHPD mostly because of my dependent streak, not because I am incapable of functioning)

vertices wrote:Self-awarenss is a funny concept. I can perform self-awareness. I can analyze my behavior to death and a lot of times I have felt like I finally knew myself. In bits and pieces, probably have. My problems got serious very young and I was forced to at least develop some ability to reflect.

Um, I would say the important piece is missing though, I may know the way I am but I don't know WHO I am. I only start to feel like I know who I am when I am loved. But then again I have forced myself to be a lot of things for love, so I don't seem to have a good awareness of who I fundamentaly am. When I'm not longing to be loved by someone I start getting very very unsure of who I am or what I want from life.

I HAvE grown a lot and a large portion of that was thanks to therapy but in therapy we got to a point where I said, well, I'm done. Because I genuinely felt done as soon as I believed that my T loved me. Then after the fact I'm not so sure that I was done or that I was truly loved for who I am, but because of how I ended up behaving.

I'm not a professional obviously, but this seems to point out towards a lack of self-awareness...pretty typical among BPDs (this is probably why, among other things, you were diagnosed as BPD).

vertices wrote:I won't go back to therapy because I find the professional boundaries to be REALLY uncomfortable. I can't handle sitting there with someone who won't open up about what they feel for me but still clearly feel something. I also don't want to ruin someone's career. In therapy I just kept thinking, why am I in this relationship? I don't like the restrictions. That said, therapy did help me but only to a point because I never 100% believed I was loved for me. Also I think I am too intense for a therapist to handle.

So, I have a BPD style, according to my T...basically, I'm a pretty "stable" person but with different events in my life I could well ended up being a BPD...but elements of it are definitely inside me, and it took an HPD+BPD woman - and subsequent therapy - to find it out.

So, don't you find exciting the possibility to *really* know you better through therapy? For me it really is!! You just need lot of patience...and remember that in some cases you impressions could be quite unfounded
Perhaps you just need to better direct your introspection.

vertices wrote:I want a sugar daddy because, well, why does anyone? I need support. Younger guys are insecure and that's ok but I am insecure enough for 2 people and it just doesn't work, I would end up resenting him for my own issues and feeling helpless because he can't provide for me. I feel like I don't really need an SO to love me anymore as long as I am taken care of... and I can take care of his dark side. Maybe deep down I don't like real love, I think it's kind of gross, because I was denied it when I needed it most.

Why you feel insecure? In my opinion you could well find out that you're an independent person and that you have lots of resources to live an independent and happy life. Isn't it?? You really don't need a sugar daddy to feel complete...but a person that likes you for what you are.

xdude, it would be really interesting to have an opinion from you.

PS: Vertices, I noticed that you often write in the antisocial forum...may I ask you why?

Fr4nz83 wrote:Why you feel insecure? In my opinion you could well find out that you're an independent person and that you have lots of resources to live an independent and happy life. Isn't it?? You really don't need a sugar daddy to feel complete...but a person that likes you for what you are.

xdude, it would be really interesting to have an opinion from you.

vertices has written before about this same conflict. I think most cluster B types share in common that while a part of them wants a loving relationship, that most feel safer if the keep their distance emotionally. That even if someone does feel that way about them, and acts that way, those relationships also trigger deep seated pain, and the want to flee.

Also that unless one has a cluster B personality it would probably be impossible to explain how it feels. That all the intellectual thinking about it, and evidence to the contrary does not stop moments of spiraling down into a vortex of self-loathing, a sense that one is essentially broken, unlovable, other feelings of worthlessness, or not being good enough.

But also the hard part. I think that on some level, people with cluster B personalities don't want to give up feeling that way entirely. Why? Too complex to explain in one post, but ah yea, any change is hard to do, but changing the core of yourself?

vert will know when, if, she is ready for a big change.

p.s. I wanted to add that I think most cluster B types compulsively beat themselves up. If you were smacking yourself over the head with a baseball bat all day and even while dreaming, no doubt you're going to feel bad. Problem is it's gone on so long it's a habit that is near impossible to stop without the will to try, and some help to do so.

xdude wrote:[
But also the hard part. I think that on some level, people with cluster B personalities don't want to give up feeling that way entirely. Why? Too complex to explain in one post, but ah yea, any change is hard to do, but changing the core of yourself?

This really is true. My husband used to accuse me of preferring misery to happiness, and I don't think he was wrong. There was something oddly comforting about the misery. It was familiar. I didn't know how to be content. And any happiness I had ever experienced had always been short lived. To what extent my misery was self induced I have no idea, I always just felt like it went back to my difficulty forming close friendships.
(Happy to say, this is no longer the case. I am learning to appreciate a steady "contentedness")

pedsmommy wrote:...There was something oddly comforting about the misery. It was familiar. I didn't know how to be content. And any happiness I had ever experienced had always been short lived. To what extent my misery was self induced I have no idea, I always just felt like it went back to my difficulty forming close friendships.
(Happy to say, this is no longer the case. I am learning to appreciate a steady "contentedness")

Understood Been doing that myself for a long long time. The 'devil I know vs the the one I don't' definitely applies.

I have some other reasons as well including:

o It's kind of like a martyr thing; it gave/gives my life a sense of meaning, and I suppose on some level it's grandiose too to want to feel special/different
o It's safe, because I can get down on myself so deeply that nothing anyone else does/says can hurt worse (I'm in control)
o It's also just habit.

Definitely been working on this. The habit part is really difficult to break, but it's a good area for me to work on. I am at least aware now of how much time I spend mentally criticizing myself, and the thing is, it's just been going on for so long that the habit often has nothing to do with what's going on around me. Breaking that mental pattern is, blah, really tough.

Fr4nz83 wrote:
I'm not a professional obviously, but this seems to point out towards a lack of self-awareness...pretty typical among BPDs (this is probably why, among other things, you were diagnosed as BPD).

Well... I suggested the diagnosis of BPD for myself before we even got to the consultation.
So I got into therapy and I was behaving BPD except I was always doing what I was doing to get an effect out of someone or because of the way they saw me, either my T, or my boyfriend. Also T was attached to fixing my behaviors so I couldn't just stop having them either... The diagnosis wore off after about a year, but my T never emphasized dx anyway, it was just an insurance thing.

So, I have a BPD style, according to my T...basically, I'm a pretty "stable" person but with different events in my life I could well ended up being a BPD...but elements of it are definitely inside me, and it took an HPD+BPD woman - and subsequent therapy - to find it out.

So, don't you find exciting the possibility to *really* know you better through therapy? For me it really is!! You just need lot of patience...and remember that in some cases you impressions could be quite unfounded
Perhaps you just need to better direct your introspection.

Well the problem is I keep thinking I finally know myself and then it turns out that I don't. Something changes and I do a total 180 of my entire self concept. In therapy, having someone know more about you, this became a point of stress for me so I sought stability in T's own self-concept which it still ###$ with me to realize is not my own. I'm still torn between being who T wanted me to and being all alone again with no identity and no sense of who I am or what I am living for. It's so hard not to reflexively turn to some new relationship or go crawling back to that one, but I think that one was getting too close and I was going to have to start over in a whole new life again to make it work. I will say though that that relationship got to some deeper part of me... it was harder to just let go of than most of my relationships before it. So I was hoping to find myself in T but it still was not right. I was becoming the evil one again, the sociopathic one who trips over my lack of attachment to another person that they are baffled by because they felt so close to me.

There are a lot of things I could be and I get caught up in those and confuse them for what I am. So I just become whatever is ideal for my relationships, and when I lose the relationships, I lose the sense of connection to who I was in them. but when I was in them it did feel real.

Because, I have a huge amount of anxiety about my lack of a consistent life narrative now, it's just not normal, I don't know what to tell people about myself if they ask, I don't know what I like or my opinions about things, I can barely answer simple questions about my life and I just end up anxiously hammering out some ditzy word vomit. And I'm trying to accept the vulnerability more but I can't bring myself to just admit to being that empty... it's unbearable to face my total lack of connection to my own life and past... ugh

You really don't need a sugar daddy to feel complete...but a person that likes you for what you are.

Um yes, people love amorphous blob people right?

PS: Vertices, I noticed that you often write in the antisocial forum...may I ask you why?

Because sometimes I think I'm evil and it's one more thing I could be....

-- Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:34 pm --

xdude wrote:p.s. I wanted to add that I think most cluster B types compulsively beat themselves up. If you were smacking yourself over the head with a baseball bat all day and even while dreaming, no doubt you're going to feel bad. Problem is it's gone on so long it's a habit that is near impossible to stop without the will to try, and some help to do so.

YES. Deep down there is a voice constantly going, I'm bad, I'm unwanted, I'm evil, I'm ugly and disgusting, I'm boring, I'm stupid, I'm superficial, I'm unmanageable, I'll always ruin everything, I'll never be truly loved, I'll never truly matter to someone if I don't change myself. That's why I say I need to truly be loved. I think that is the only way u can counter that voice.

We are supposed to get that love from our parents... when they do not give us that... it's so devastating... and how can you ever make up for that? Nobody else has a REASON to give you unconditional love.

Hey vertices,

I think most people who are reasonably mentally well are also unaware that they have a general sense of well-being, maybe even self-talk at an on-going level, except that their persistent inner monologue has a positive spin, and if anything we might even say that's a positive way to live. They might not even be aware of their own inner monologue, but why would they be, they feel generally good about themselves.

I suppose it's hard to imagine what it's like if those self-talk messages are mostly negative, and have gone on for as long as one remembers.

As much as it would be nice to say a few encouraging words and poof, the negative messages would be gone, it just doesn't work. A few positives now may be highly appreciated, but it doesn't change that if someone's core sense of self is damaged, that doesn't go away. It can be covered up for a time, distractions, moments of feeling good, etc., but it's still there.

Being truly loved helps, but the worry there is that we will sabotage it. I think many of us still need help to essentially start over. Tough to do and probably even then someone with a cluster B personality is always going to have a perspective that is different than someone who had a relatively normal, positive, upbringing.