feeling hopeless

vertices wrote:

Fr4nz83 wrote:Indeed, and we have very recent examples of these kind of "collaborations"...just see how the interaction between pedsmommy (who is really forward in her progresses, hats off!) and evelyne (who has a remarkable capacity of introspection and just started her journey) was beneficial for both of them!

See now one thing I'll never get, I mean i'll never understand what it feels like, is how dudes get burned by swHPD and then come on here to pat other wittwe HPDs on the head for being soooo self aware. It's clearly infantilizing but I mean ofc that is why you dated swHPD to begin with. But like, does just doing that actually help you feel better about what happened? Makes me wonder if people I left behind are like that. Maybe I don't want to fully be a non because I can't imagine getting close to someone who had emotional power over me, who could leave me and I'd actually be wondering wtf happened. I think I like the excitement of falling in love but if it is 100% mutal i feel like the ball is forever in my court and idk what to do with it anymore. Maybe I lose respect for someone who loves me bc I think only someone pathetic would be able to.

So, I'm speaking for myself but I see that xdude have very similar feelings and psychological dynamics with respect to mines...
Basically, I enjoyed the up/downs in the relationship, the intensity, the extreme feelings, the push/pull (even if I have to say she was always the one starting the drama), to share the pain with my ex on certain issues, to discuss on some topics which are pretty usual among BPDs and HPDs; in other words, I found (and I still find!) many irresistible aspects in my ex HPD.
Also, I liked her apparent "strong" and flamboyant personality, so much that certain times I used her as a tool to "complete" (in a certain sense) my personality. Have to say that I learned some "social tricks" from her, so much that I still use those nowadays.

And when the r/s ended in a disastrous way (she triangulated me with her current bf, basically she was going to have sex with him, in front of me, while she was completely drunk...that night I fled away, the situation was completely crazy by any means) and subsequently mistreated me lacking any human form of empathy - after 1.5 years of relationship where she was constantly saying I was the "love of her life" (so typical, huh?) - I was struck by a terrible sense of abandonment which brought me into depression for 2-3 months.

So, turns out that I have a borderline personality style (according to my T), which means that I am an equilibrate person but I had an upbringing, i.e. an iperprotective mother, which planted the seeds for BPD traits and thinking. This is why I was so much attracted to the traits of my ex HPD (which has very strong BPD traits as well), and I have to say that probably I'm not a NON or a codependent in the traditional sense.

This is also probably in line with the observation that cluster Bs tend to attract to each other...

-- Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:03 am --

xdude wrote:

vertices wrote:Do you feel like when you are avoiding your emotions that you kind of lost one of your strengths/your vitality? Do you feel like you have severed your connection to something you are lost without? Also I'm curious what you mean by dark feeligs, like jealousy or rage?

Anyway I don't want to have a pet, I AM a pet lmfao

Yes there is definitely a cost, a loss of vitality, but numb is good sometimes. Dark feelings means my own constant self-criticism is an ever present cloud; I'm working on it but except for when I'm busy at work it's hard to stop.

I can relate to these as well xdude, especially the self-criticism and the dark feelings...probably we are quite similar. Just out of curiosity, what about your upbringing? If I remember correctly you had a BPD mother?

Yes to the BPD mother. It affects you when you have a parent who is unable to love you as a kid. You end up feeling guilty for everything, self-critical constantly, there must be something wrong with me, etc., and it's gone on so long, well, there is no simple way to just put a stop to those thoughts.

Intellectually I know better of course, but over intellectualizing is actually not great. I do it because it's my way of coping. It doesn't actually fix anything, it just keeps things under wraps and functional. It's also why when someone has a cluster B personality, that while they may greatly appreciate being told about their positive traits, it only provides temporary relief, if even that, because if they are having a day when they are down on themselves, well no matter what is said they still will end up spiraling down into self-loathing on those days/times.

I'm a guy though so we are supposed to be stoic, strong, not let things get to us, etc. I think intellectualizing is a common way for males to cope. For females it might be different. Maybe they have had more encouragement to feel, express, seek out support from others, etc. Not sure either is better or worse though. Neither seems to really address the underlying sense of self-loathing.

Fr4nz83 wrote:And when the r/s ended in a disastrous way (she triangulated me with her current bf, basically she was going to have sex with him, in front of me, while she was completely drunk...that night I fled away, the situation was completely crazy by any means) and subsequently mistreated me lacking any human form of empathy - after 1.5 years of relationship where she was constantly saying I was the "love of her life" (so typical, huh?) - I was struck by a terrible sense of abandonment which brought me into depression for 2-3 months.

In that situation you did the right thing to say enough is enough. Kids are powerless, even if they say 'that's enough devaluing me, hurting me' they can't stop a parent who is abusive, but as an adult you should protect your self-esteem. It still hurts to be devalued, but it's epic fail to allow it to go on.

xdude wrote:I'm a guy though so we are supposed to be stoic, strong, not let things get to us, etc. I think intellectualizing is a common way for males to cope. For females it might be different. Maybe they have had more encouragement to feel, express, seek out support from others, etc. Not sure either is better or worse though. Neither seems to really address the underlying sense of self-loathing.

Actually there are many studies which support what you say, so it is definitely true.

-- Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:15 pm --

xdude wrote:

Fr4nz83 wrote:And when the r/s ended in a disastrous way (she triangulated me with her current bf, basically she was going to have sex with him, in front of me, while she was completely drunk...that night I fled away, the situation was completely crazy by any means) and subsequently mistreated me lacking any human form of empathy - after 1.5 years of relationship where she was constantly saying I was the "love of her life" (so typical, huh?) - I was struck by a terrible sense of abandonment which brought me into depression for 2-3 months.

In that situation you did the right thing to say enough is enough. Kids are powerless, even if they say 'that's enough devaluing me, hurting me' they can't stop a parent who is abusive, but as an adult you should protect your self-esteem. It still hurts to be devalued, but it's epic fail to allow it to go on.

You know, for almost 4 weeks, after that traumatic event (for me), I wanted to mantain a friendship with my ex, even with all the craziness/devaluation going on (eventually the situation got so unbearable that I decided to go NC...but only after my ex unfriended me in FB)...
When I told this to my T, she told me that she was really suprised that I wanted to mantain a friendship instead of going directly to NC...which points out, even more nowadays, the fear of abandonment I endured and how much my self-esteem was completely destroyed (in that moment I was basically I doormat, blaming myself for non-existing faults, and my boundaries were completely destroyed).

Yes fear of being alone is a factor that weighs heavily on some, myself included, so it's hard to let go even when faced with abuse (yea including psychological).. There is something therapeutic in taking some time out from being in a relationship, but I'm just as guilty of feeling like if I'm not in a relationship I feel incomplete.

That's a bit odd too because when I was younger I avoided relationships for near 3 years, focused on school/work, and was more than fine with it, arguably even happy. Since then, yea, I don't like being alone, though like many people with cluster B histories, I can feel suffocated when a relationship gets too close. LOL. I think being aware is step #1, but actually fixing/changing that, tough. It's probably why the pwHPD I got involved with got along so well with me. LDR so plenty of time apart too. When we were together hey, vacations, visits, etc., but those lasted less than 2 weeks at a time. Even for her, by 3-4 days of being together, you could tell she had reached the point of feeling anxiety. I understood her though and on some level she understood me; emotional fire and ice lol. The emotional intensity is both the attraction and what drives the relationship apart.

xdude wrote:Yes fear of being alone is a factor that weighs heavily on some, myself included, so it's hard to let go even when faced with abuse (yea including psychological).. There is something therapeutic in taking some time out from being in a relationship, but I'm just as guilty of feeling like if I'm not in a relationship I feel incomplete.

That's a bit odd too because when I was younger I avoided relationships for near 3 years, focused on school/work, and was more than fine with it, arguably even happy. Since then, yea, I don't like being alone, though like many people with cluster B histories, I can feel suffocated when a relationship gets too close. LOL. I think being aware is step #1, but actually fixing/changing that, tough. It's probably why the pwHPD I got involved with got along so well with me. LDR so plenty of time apart too. When we were together hey, vacations, visits, etc., but those lasted less than 2 weeks at a time. Even for her, by 3-4 days of being together, you could tell she had reached the point of feeling anxiety. I understood her though and on some level she understood me; emotional fire and ice lol. The emotional intensity is both the attraction and what drives the relationship apart.

LOL man, same dynamics for me!!!

I mean, I also have sensation of engulfement whenever I get too close - i.e., I spent with my partner extended periods of times togheter (not tragic as in the BPD/HPD, but is there), sensation of emptiness after the end of the r/s, etc.; also, our relationship was medium-distance (250km), so we were seeing each other during the week only in friday evening - early monday morning (this helps in reducing the engulfement sensation).

We had some extended periods of time where we stayed togheter (basically when she was not working and stayed with me in my city) which lasted at maximum 1 month...during this periods, as in your case, I clearly remember that after some days the sensation of engulfement started to build inside me little by little (and in her for sure as well), and the push/pull dynamics kicked in brutally because of her crazy ability in creating drama...

Nowadays I have to be honest and say that on the emotional level we understood each other pretty well, even if we were not aware of this at that time

Fr4nz83 wrote:
So, I'm speaking for myself but I see that xdude have very similar feelings and psychological dynamics with respect to mines...
Basically, I enjoyed the up/downs in the relationship, the intensity, the extreme feelings, the push/pull (even if I have to say she was always the one starting the drama), to share the pain with my ex on certain issues, to discuss on some topics which are pretty usual among BPDs and HPDs; in other words, I found (and I still find!) many irresistible aspects in my ex HPD.
Also, I liked her apparent "strong" and flamboyant personality, so much that certain times I used her as a tool to "complete" (in a certain sense) my personality. Have to say that I learned some "social tricks" from her, so much that I still use those nowadays.

And when the r/s ended in a disastrous way (she triangulated me with her current bf, basically she was going to have sex with him, in front of me, while she was completely drunk...that night I fled away, the situation was completely crazy by any means) and subsequently mistreated me lacking any human form of empathy - after 1.5 years of relationship where she was constantly saying I was the "love of her life" (so typical, huh?) - I was struck by a terrible sense of abandonment which brought me into depression for 2-3 months.

So, turns out that I have a borderline personality style (according to my T), which means that I am an equilibrate person but I had an upbringing, i.e. an iperprotective mother, which planted the seeds for BPD traits and thinking. This is why I was so much attracted to the traits of my ex HPD (which has very strong BPD traits as well), and I have to say that probably I'm not a NON or a codependent in the traditional sense.

This is also probably in line with the observation that cluster Bs tend to attract to each other...

hmm yeah I'm very familiar with borderlines and don't see them as bad people. At least they stay in touch with their feelings no matter how bad things get. I can appreciate that b/c I'm not like that, it takes a lot of work to not just automatically become (on the surface) whatever people project onto me. HPD is not a strength. Well maybe it is in the sort term, but it is a weakness in the long term

I like pwBPD becuase there is a level of comfort there and I'm immune to the venom. Our feelings are similar so it can be a relief to just let them do the feeling for me + they are better at it and my true feelings are more repressed. But the more I am trying to be an honest person, the more imdifferent I feel toward pwBPD.... I am needy in a very direct way, I will say love me, hold me, buy me stuff, but pwBPD are needy in the sense that they demand you to mirror their infantile view of reality. At least I intellectually understand people even if ultimately emotionally I'm still just splitting.....

T definitely had BPD traits. Definitely some walking on eggshells going on there. I take a lot of heat from pwBPD because I blurt things out sometimes and they don't get how your words can be anything but 1:1 attached to your true feelings.

I feel like just like pwBPD split others, I have split myself. There is an all good me and an all bad me and the more I am trying to be all good, the less control I have when I become all bad. I'm trying very hard to not define myself thru other ppl anymore but it's lonelyyyyy

guysssssss I'm lonely wahhh loveme buy me things ((((((((

excuse first my rusty english !
Xdude wrote
« I can feel suffocated when a relationship gets too close. « thank for opening xdude that's cool !
ME TOO EXACTLY!

but i am a bit Schizoid…but one of the better behaved… was raised by a good super super loving mother…and a father somewhat NPD but with at least good values and a conscience…

So Since we (cluster 2 PPL) we do often need our space and we all love HPD women (the better behaved)…2 questions :
1) how can we give all the attention that HPD needs, part time attention sound a bit light for HPD… no ?
2) And say when we are not around and keep an eye on our HPD woman, is the temptation not a bit too strong for her not to scope for new fans… and much needed attention ?

so if that is the case shouldnt many Cluster 2 ppl should walk away from HPD...no matter the cost for us?

PM for Vertices you are not feeling hopless anymore... you are fun again wooo… my pen PALs and I we all like you !

vertices wrote:hmm yeah I'm very familiar with borderlines and don't see them as bad people. At least they stay in touch with their feelings no matter how bad things get. I can appreciate that b/c I'm not like that, it takes a lot of work to not just automatically become (on the surface) whatever people project onto me. HPD is not a strength. Well maybe it is in the sort term, but it is a weakness in the long term

Yea, so it does seem BPD types are a different in that where other cluster B types shut their feelings off or hide from them, BPD types are in touch with their feelings, but ...

Having grown up with that, there were 3 extended periods in my life where I couldn't shut feelings off. Honestly it is awful to feel like your every emotional nerve ending is exposed, raw, no protection. In that state of mind every emotion feels magnified and overwhelming. I mean I do believe it's good to feel, but maybe it's different when those feelings are felt in the context of a sense of stable, positive self-image. I think for BPD types the background pain/damage is ever present, and all too easily bubbles to the surface. I definitely prefer feeling muted over feeling like that.

For whatever it's worth when I came to this site I knew a lot about BPD and AsPD from personal experience, and some about NPD. HPD? I'd had heard of it but had no clue what it was about. Well, same as you wrote about BPD. At a distance, intellectually, I get the need for the coping mechanism, and can feel compassion. In a relationship? I found it triggered all the same things I thought I had overcome from childhood. Turns out... nope, my self-esteem was far far more fragile than I knew. LOL. Hey, learning experience

joe_TIGGER56 wrote:PM for Vertices you are not feeling hopless anymore... you are fun again wooo… my pen PALs and I we all like you !

Um idk if I'm intrigued or weirded out lol. do I know you?

xdude wrote:Yea, so it does seem BPD types are a different in that where other cluster B types shut their feelings off or hide from them, BPD types are in touch with their feelings, but ...

Having grown up with that, there were 3 extended periods in my life where I couldn't shut feelings off. Honestly it is awful to feel like your every emotional nerve ending is exposed, raw, no protection. In that state of mind every emotion feels magnified and overwhelming. I mean I do believe it's good to feel, but maybe it's different when those feelings are felt in the context of a sense of stable, positive self-image. I think for BPD types the background pain/damage is ever present, and all too easily bubbles to the surface. I definitely prefer feeling muted over feeling like that.

For whatever it's worth when I came to this site I knew a lot about BPD and AsPD from personal experience, and some about NPD. HPD? I'd had heard of it but had no clue what it was about. Well, same as you wrote about BPD. At a distance, intellectually, I get the need for the coping mechanism, and can feel compassion. In a relationship? I found it triggered all the same things I thought I had overcome from childhood. Turns out... nope, my self-esteem was far far more fragile than I knew. LOL. Hey, learning experience

I think I know a little of what it's like to be BPD bc when I'm alone I struggle to shut out the emotions and it is NOT FUN. Feeling alone is like... death. It's bad. So if it's a lot like that I can empathize, I can see why they end up in the hospital a lot. :c

It's strange what you guys are saying about getting close in a relationship. For me it depends a lot on who with. My problem is getting close and building it up like it will be this amazing fantasy and then realizing it doesn't feel right once it actually happens and it is also much less glamorous and enchanting. I also am afraid of bridging the gap from no connection to someone ----> keeping in touch or being friends or whatever. That's that path of least resistance thing. I never start my relationships and I never reach out to people and it sort of bugs me but I just never feel like doing it. It seems stupid to expect other people to do all the work esp. when I am so extroverted but oh well. Guess we all have our own weaknesses. OTOH, when a relationship gets going for me when it feels right I can go batshit ######6 crazy over the slightest hint of love and I will do absolutely anything for more, drop my entire life and change everything. trying not to do that anymore too....

I like the dreamy sentimental feelings, not the scary ones...