So tired of this destructive cycle

I also think that it's a big step (maybe the biggest?) in the right direction, to introspect, something that many people cannot (or won't?) do.

xdude wrote:

Evelyne_ wrote:Sometimes I think the most crucial factor, is the lack of a sense of morality, as I think everybody fantasizes about somebody else sometimes, but isn't it that most people feel guilt? I don't.

Not sure but yes people fantasize but guessing most don't take their own fantasy thoughts seriously. Easy come easy go. Not necessary to act on and... which hurts more? Someone having a thought to hurt you, or actually doing it? They might not feel guilty about having thoughts but would about actually hurting someone.

Evelyne, hi, i hope you're doing better!
I'm curious to see how this has been going for you lately, how did you manage the new guy and the relationship you care for?
I am just like you as well and i can relate to all the things you said with only minor adjustments here and there - i do not lack guilt when i am doing these things, but it's in a twisted way, whenever i had done those things and just gave into the instinct and had a one night stand with a guy, it was like something shut down my emotions completely at that instant, like i wouldn't have to feel anything, i was simply emotionally numb. And all the awhile, back inside my soul i could feel my counsciousness and my sould yelling at me but i was just ..numb. And when all was over the huge amount of guilt would just engulf me..over and over again, tens of times. You nailed it perfectly when you described it as the pain coming from the lack of a sense of morality. I no longer do these one night stands for almost 5 years, but i have flirted several times and once kissed someone, all the while being with my boyfriend whom i also truly and deeply love. It really messed me up, so i am curious how did you do in the end, how do you feel now? My boyfriend always says that he cannot understand at all how can someone feel both love for a person and at the same time flirt and lie so shamelessly, both emotions being as true and genuine. Do you also feel these things in parallel, that the fact that you loved your partner did not exclude the other part even though you did not want things to be this way?

so why not live in an open relationship if you cannot resist temptation ?
Many men would be open to that these days..

I am not alone in my destructive behavior! I was just overwhelmed reading your post and some of it really hits me right in the face.

Evelyne_ wrote:This new guy has approached me in a not to misunderstanding manner, and I have been able to keep him at a distance. It's so hard not to act on it. If it would only be possible to shut down these fall in love emotions and feel a sense of morality that is big enough not to cheat on my boyfriend.I DO love my boyfriend but I feel like I HAVE to have this guy's attention. I don't know what to do. Everything is so boring and empty without this excitement. But I really do want to grow old with my boyfriend even though I can imagine myself being with this new guy too.Sometimes I think the most crucial factor, is the lack of a sense of morality, as I think everybody fantasizes about somebody else sometimes, but isn't it that most people feel guilt? I don't.

Well most guys when we get attention from a girl feel very similar and our hormones also take over and we do not feel very guilty, this is very biological , we feel some guilt and we could easily overcome this guilt. I think the problem is once the deed is done we know we will feel uneasy around our partner and are scared to get caught to break everything we have worked for in the relationship. Basically we are much worse at lying than you and are more practical/ see it from a long perspective.!! This is what you lack I think!
If you are convincing liar you will probably not get caught. Well this is what you think, but your bf will catch you lying .. most lies do come out and your partner when he catches will probably not even raise it. Why? well he is probably 99% certain you lied and is waiting to catch you with your pants down so to speak. Most PD think they get away with lies when people don't say anything right away. You are not more clever and you will forget your lies. Heck I caught my x-gf lying 4 times and twice about the same event. Lack of trust is an instant relationship killer. So basically if you cheat you have to live with the feeling that your partner might know but is actually busy trying to catch you and might act all sweet and naïve towards you.
So for some reason your long term thinking is not in tune and this results in "lack of morality", because your thoughts are very similar to mine , just not enough follow through on the full picture. This is my theory because they found less grey matter in many cluster B PD and grey matter is there for long term rewards. Not sure how you can train long term rewards , but there are some methods to buy chocolate and not eat it except 1 piece a day , to exercise and avoid drugs because cocaine etc. destroys it. Again this is my theory , that we avoid the long term damage to our relationship by avoiding the instant gratification. Once we realize this we try to find an instant gratification that will not cause long term damage to our lives , e.g. flirting but not more , making out with our partner in a public space..and seek such thrills instead.

Robert100 wrote:

Evelyne_ wrote:This new guy has approached me in a not to misunderstanding manner, and I have been able to keep him at a distance. It's so hard not to act on it. If it would only be possible to shut down these fall in love emotions and feel a sense of morality that is big enough not to cheat on my boyfriend.I DO love my boyfriend but I feel like I HAVE to have this guy's attention. I don't know what to do. Everything is so boring and empty without this excitement. But I really do want to grow old with my boyfriend even though I can imagine myself being with this new guy too.Sometimes I think the most crucial factor, is the lack of a sense of morality, as I think everybody fantasizes about somebody else sometimes, but isn't it that most people feel guilt? I don't.

Well most guys when we get attention from a girl feel very similar and our hormones also take over and we do not feel very guilty, this is very biological , we feel some guilt and we could easily overcome this guilt. I think the problem is once the deed is done we know we will feel uneasy around our partner and are scared to get caught to break everything we have worked for in the relationship. Basically we are much worse at lying than you and are more practical/ see it from a long perspective.!! This is what you lack I think!
If you are convincing liar you will probably not get caught. Well this is what you think, but your bf will catch you lying .. most lies do come out and your partner when he catches will probably not even raise it. Why? well he is probably 99% certain you lied and is waiting to catch you with your pants down so to speak. Most PD think they get away with lies when people don't say anything right away. You are not more clever and you will forget your lies. Heck I caught my x-gf lying 4 times and twice about the same event. Lack of trust is an instant relationship killer. So basically if you cheat you have to live with the feeling that your partner might know but is actually busy trying to catch you and might act all sweet and naïve towards you.
So for some reason your long term thinking is not in tune and this results in "lack of morality", because your thoughts are very similar to mine , just not enough follow through on the full picture. This is my theory because they found less grey matter in many cluster B PD and grey matter is there for long term rewards. Not sure how you can train long term rewards , but there are some methods to buy chocolate and not eat it except 1 piece a day , to exercise and avoid drugs because cocaine etc. destroys it. Again this is my theory , that we avoid the long term damage to our relationship by avoiding the instant gratification. Once we realize this we try to find an instant gratification that will not cause long term damage to our lives , e.g. flirting but not more , making out with our partner in a public space..and seek such thrills instead.

I think this is a very good point. Focusing on a key aspect (low tolerance for delayed gratification) that may allow to create the circumstances to override other HPD weaknesses (contextual emotional empathy inhibition, impaired sense of morality, etc.) enabling lack of loyalty so crucial for them to be able to stay with the person they love and who truly loves them, and not end up living the sad life that follows having destroyed that.

The Rational Decision Making Impairment might still be an issue though.

It would be great to have some HPDI input on experimentation with training tolerance for longer terms to gratification and if successfully increasing their tolerance had a positive effect on their ability to limit the extent / frequency of urges for attention / validation?