So confused and need help

My wife's been in therapy for 3 years now. The past 8 months have been a nightmare. From the comments she's made about her sessions, it sounds like she and her therapist both agree there is a "sickness" but they don't know what it is. They want to stay away from labels- I totally understand that.

Her personality over the past 8 months has been about how I caused all of her bad behavior. I wasn't listening to her, so that's why she found a man that would listen to her etc. I called her bluff about 1.5 months ago when I realized she was playing on my commitment to the marriage- I told her our marriage is over etc, she decided to work harder in therapy. Probably a good choice for her since she lost her job, her car lease is over and I pay all the bills. There were maybe 2 days that she fully acknowledged all of her bad behavior- she told me she was supposed to read that list to me along with all of her good points and all of my good/bad points everyday. She did it for 2 days and now we are back to it's all me again and how I won't take responsibility for anything. I know this isn't me anymore- that I am clear on. I am so confused and don't know what to do. I was holding my baby girl last night- she's so beautiful- all I could think of is what is her future going to be? Divorce never has any good results with kids.

This is the last email I received from her:

I am taking the kids out; we will be home at 9 -
as for today, i retained an attorney. Her name is ### ####. I will give you her card when you get home. You can have your attorney contact her if you or he has any questions. I'd very much like to make this as easy and amicable as possible. I have no bad in tensions or ill will. You can have joint custody of the baby - I will not contest that. I would also request that you keep your stepson as active as you will the baby in your life. And lastly, I very much like to keep the house. I will assume full responsibility for it and all the bills.

In closing - there is one last request/ option - we can separate and go for intensive counseling. Bob there is a lot of damage and broken trust on both ends and if this is not a road you are willing to go down, then you know what the alternative is.

This is a very tense and unhappy environment and I will tell you that if there is any possible way to salvage this marriage, I'd like to do so. But again - that is going to take A LOT to rebuild the trust each of us has damaged.....

That is all I have.

bobb2006 wrote:My wife's been in therapy for 3 years now. The past 8 months have been a nightmare. From the comments she's made about her sessions, it sounds like she and her therapist both agree there is a "sickness" but they don't know what it is. They want to stay away from labels- I totally understand that.

Her personality over the past 8 months has been about how I caused all of her bad behavior. I wasn't listening to her, so that's why she found a man that would listen to her etc. I called her bluff about 1.5 months ago when I realized she was playing on my commitment to the marriage- I told her our marriage is over etc, she decided to work harder in therapy. Probably a good choice for her since she lost her job, her car lease is over and I pay all the bills. There were maybe 2 days that she fully acknowledged all of her bad behavior- she told me she was supposed to read that list to me along with all of her good points and all of my good/bad points everyday. She did it for 2 days and now we are back to it's all me again and how I won't take responsibility for anything. I know this isn't me anymore- that I am clear on. I am so confused and don't know what to do. I was holding my baby girl last night- she's so beautiful- all I could think of is what is her future going to be? Divorce never has any good results with kids.

This is the last email I received from her:

I am taking the kids out; we will be home at 9 -
as for today, i retained an attorney. Her name is ### ####. I will give you her card when you get home. You can have your attorney contact her if you or he has any questions. I'd very much like to make this as easy and amicable as possible. I have no bad in tensions or ill will. You can have joint custody of the baby - I will not contest that. I would also request that you keep your stepson as active as you will the baby in your life. And lastly, I very much like to keep the house. I will assume full responsibility for it and all the bills.

In closing - there is one last request/ option - we can separate and go for intensive counseling. Bob there is a lot of damage and broken trust on both ends and if this is not a road you are willing to go down, then you know what the alternative is.

This is a very tense and unhappy environment and I will tell you that if there is any possible way to salvage this marriage, I'd like to do so. But again - that is going to take A LOT to rebuild the trust each of us has damaged.....

That is all I have.

She is extremely articulate and objective. That is one sign of sociopathy.

Bobb- not in the same words as Kane- but what would cause me to vote against HPD, but something else is:

1. She has had only 1 affair(true HPDs have lots).
2. She can spell very well. There is a post somewhere on psychforums on this.. My own wife couldnt/cant spell for nuts.
3. Another typical thing which I saw in my wife and keep hearing here is that they are not much interested in the outside world or any affairs at all that does not give them short term gains( which we would probably not even see as a gain)-NS or whatever.

But ofc ourse these people are mixed- and so are their symptoms- not always possible to label.

All the best- six months later- I am still depressed- still sometimes cry myself to sleep- but its not just my wife- a whole lot of other stuff as well. But in other words- a lot of us here feel your pain. You have our support and best wishes.

There were maybe 2 days that she fully acknowledged all of her bad behavior- she told me she was supposed to read that list to me along with all of her good points and all of my good/bad points everyday. She did it for 2 days and now we are back to it's all me again and how I won't take responsibility for anything.

hpd's never admit when they have done wrong and if they do it never really sounds like an admission of guilt. it's always intertwined with blaming others, gas-lighting and evasiveness, looking down and refusing to hold eye contact. they will manufacture another description of the scenario and then start to believe it as true. that's why if you are going to go thru with the divorce you need to have someone who can give you an objective opinion...someone who is trained in deciphering the evasive language of someone with hpd.

in this extreme situation (divorcing someone who you clearly still love but are unable to stay happy and sane with) i would recommend picking up the phone book and searching for a therapist, to talk to at least once or twice...if not more, about your feelings on this and how you should proceed. call around and try to find one who specializes in cluster b disorders. if you live in a big city you should be able to find one...

She is a horrible at spelling. When she writes by hand, it's bad. She uses spell check, but most of the time even with spell check, there are still mistakes.

As far as never admitting their wrong? She only did that because when she thought she had everything under her control and had everybody convinced it was time for me to leave- I told her about another choice she didn't like. I told her that instead of us separating with her living in the house with the kids- I said that our marriage is over. Our house is going to go up for sale. I told her that because I loved her so much and I want her to be happy and she's not happy with me, it's time for me to let her go have her happiness. She knew she was screwed- I was paying all the bills and taking care of everything while she was doing her thing.

She decided to up the ante in her therapy and she came home with a list of all her bad behavior. When she read it, she read it very very quickly for 2 nights and that was the last I heard from it. We shortly went back to the bad behavior again.

She feels I wasn't listening to her, so that made it OK for her to sleep over her coworker's house on many occasions. She lied about where she was to everyone and to this day swears they were just friends- he just listened.....

Her own Aunt/Uncle and first cousin told me that she's lied since she was a child. Her own flesh/blood see her as a very evil, self-centered person since she was 7 years old.

hpd's never admit when they have done wrong and if they do it never really sounds like an admission of guilt.

This is a very interesting observation, which I totally agree with.
With that said, I went through a no contact period where my HPD/BPD eventually broke through and restablished the relationship. Although she didn't admit to any wrongdoing, she did try to correct her behavior i.e. lying whenever she could. She would tell a lie and then come clean shortly thereafter, which suggests to me she knows she is hurting the one she is talking to.

in this extreme situation (divorcing someone who you clearly still love but are unable to stay happy and sane with) i would recommend picking up the phone book and searching for a therapist, to talk to at least once or twice...if not more, about your feelings on this and how you should proceed. call around and try to find one who specializes in cluster b disorders.

Divorce isn't easy. Been there. Done that. These forums are great to help with your daily struggles, but face to face interactions with
a counselor is so beneficial. It gives you something to look forward to.

Some other advice I would suggest. It might not work for some, but it definitely worked for me. I used a male counselor because I felt he would be more understanding with how to deal with my situation. I'm not suggesting males are better counselors but instead, offer a male perspective, which I can more readily relate to.

She is a horrible at spelling. When she writes by hand, it's bad. She uses spell check, but most of the time even with spell check, there are still mistakes. T

This very fascinating, my friend had this same exact characteristic. At first, I thought it was speed typing via e-mail. But her spelling was horrible or she would select the wrong word to use i.e. except instead of accept.

Bobb,

To be quite honest with you, I feel your pain. I can see your struggling to save your marriage and trying to explain her behavior. Even now I sit her with a unsettling feeling in my stomach. I'm reliving the experience even as I write.

You're looking for answers, and they are not coming easily. The issues swimming in your head are a tremendous load. Wondering why she would tear the family apart, the guilt of dealing with the harm caused to the children. What the future holds for you. Hell, my search for answers even caused me to think she was gay. Go figure!!!

Whatever the issues are, the only thing you can do is take care of yourself. My counselor told me not worry about what's in her backyard, but to only worry about mine. This will help you stablize your emotions.

I suggest divorcebusters.com as another source to help you sort out your feelings. They helped me maintain the high road many years ago.

Take Care!

But her spelling was horrible or she would select the wrong word to use i.e. except instead of accept.

really??? that's kind of co-incidental because in the book 'psychopaths among us' there is almost a word for word description by the author robert hare on this very pattern...he has a chapter or section (can't remember) on communication patterns of psychopaths and this was mentioned in a couple of paragraphs - the tendency to...mix up similiar words like this, like...except instead of accept.

really??? that's kind of co-incidental because in the book 'psychopaths among us' there is almost a word for word description by the author robert hare on this very pattern...he has a chapter or section (can't remember) on communication patterns of psychopaths and this was mentioned in a couple of paragraphs - the tendency to...mix up similiar words like this, like...except instead of accept.

Yeah it was done in the context of exchanging gifts for the holidays. I heard she had exchanged gifts with another individual and I mentioned possibly getting her a gift. She said not to get her a gift. When I pushed her on it, she said she wouldn't except it. I just thought she either wasn't very bright or possibly was typing at a high rate without thinking what she was saying. There are other cases, but this was the most recent to recall.

I also noticed when in other e-mail communications (during the time she was hot on my tail), she would mix up her words suggesting her bf says the same thing, but she jumbled the words as though I was already her bf. It's hard to explain her comments because they were very confusing.[/b]

Hey, it's nice to know that there are people in this world that are willing to support people they don't even know. It's like spending your life walking a tight rope knowing that if you fall, you will be caught before smacking into rock bottom.

I've been seeing a male therapist since the end of May. It's been beneficial to me in so many ways. My wife's first cousin and my sister were college roommates. I have a friendly relationship with this woman now- she's my cousin now through marriage. I gave her a call. She had told me about what life was like growing up. She's about 2 years older than my wife and she painted a very different picture of life than my wife or her sister/brothers/mother painted.

Her dad was the 3rd child and only son of her grandparents. His father treated him like a prince- always bailing him out of trouble etc. When my wife's parents got married, the grandfather paid for their house. He continued to bail this man out even as an adult.

My wife's parents pretty much fought from the time they were married until they got divorced. I was told of a very telling story- once, when her parents were outside with my wife and her siblings- Mr. Softee the ice cream truck pulled up. This was before my wife was 8 years old- not sure the exact age. She watched mom/dad buy themselves ice cream. When my wife and her sibs asked for some, the parents told them "We don't have enough money for all of you." So the parents ate the ice cream while the kids watched.

I found out not too long ago that my wife's father was into young girls- usually pre-puberty. My wife's younger sister was considered by most to be prettier. Apparently, the father made a move on her younger sister. No body will ever know the truth, but if a young girl sees that she gets no attention from mom and dad, but the prettier sister seems to. What lesson is learned? I do know that growing up, my wife was pretty brutal on her sister. Today, her sister is very, very passive- like a mouse. She is too easily influenced and has 0 self-worth/esteem.

It really makes sense now. I mean, if she looks a certain way- she gets attention. Growing up, certainly girls that look a certain get attention from boys, so society reinforces that behavior.

When I met my wife, on the very first date- she told me later on that she almost canceled. She was too nervous to go, but she mustered up the courage and went. I was respectful, kind and made her laugh most of the night. She drank mostly lemon shots. When I took her home, I opened her car door for her at her house. She leaned forward and french kissed me. We parted ways. Pretty much from that point on, we had a very intense relationship. She told me she was very uncomfortable with having sex. I was fine with that- relationships to me are not about sex. At my age- I'm 8 years older- I consider the intimate bond developed through mutual respect, kindness and communication to be the most important thing. She wanted to wait until she was ready. I was just fine with that. It took her a month to be comfortable enough with me to make love.

When we did make love the first time, I thought it was rather odd that she wanted to face away from me- not to get raunchy, but I thought it was strange that she put herself in a very submissive position (i was behind her).

Anyway, the relationship moved very quickly. She idolized me. I never felt so accepted in my life.

The change occurred 1.5 years later when I asked her to marry me- that's when it seemed to me that as long as she wanted something, she was fantastic to be around. I just dismissed it as being a woman- what woman doesn't want to have her princess day? I believe that girls dream about their wedding- that's what society reinforces, right? She planned the wedding etc. Once we were married, it was all about she wanted a baby- so did I. I never felt as loved as I did with her. We had a baby in Aug 2005. While she was pregnant, she was difficult- I did my best not to take that personally- hormones etc. Once the baby was born, she was on materity leave. She was expecting me to get up every 3 hours with the baby so she could rest- I did the best I could, I was working full time and could only do so much. I would come home from work and she would be on the couch "not feeling well". After a while, I started to become resentful. I worked all day- came home had to take care of everything- I was expected to help out with the baby overnight- she did get up many, many times herself without me. What baffled me was when she was on the couch- once the kids were in bed- all of a sudden she was ready to do what she wanted. Naturally, I got a wee bit upset.

By March, she was withdrawn. When I asked her about it repeatedly- she finally said, "There's somebody else." I asked what does that mean? She told me she had a coworker that she has a crush on- she was in love with him. She told me this happens to her all the time and it would pass. She was in therapy all along. I tried to understand and be as understanding as possible, but it was so challenging to be with a woman that was even present to me. I was lonely and hurt.

By May, it seemed things were status quo between us. But in May, I started to discover the lies. She was spending so much time with this dude. One night, it was so late and I couldn't reach her. By the time she called me back it was 10pm. She was upset. I drove and met her in the rain at a train stop. She was in tears. She told me that she was so rotten to me and that I didn't deserve what she was doing. She told me that this other guy rejected her.

Well, the lies just continued on. She just kept persuing him. She told me he wanted to be just friends etc.

She told this other guy that we were separated when we weren't. She was spending nights at his house telling me she was with a girlfriend. She lied and spent a lot of time with him.

She swears that he was just a good, geniune special friend that was willing to listen when she needed somebody. She calls me insecure. She calls me a-hole and a whole bunch of other names. She only seems to show me love/affection at certain times. She was out with this dude until 2 am one time- I knew she was with him- she didn't know I knew. When she got home, she pulled my pants off and jumped on top of me.

What does this sound like? Am I crazy or is it that she really doesn't know she's hurting me? Is this typical behavior of HPD?

What does this sound like? Am I crazy or is it that she really doesn't know she's hurting me? Is this typical behavior of HPD?

yes, it is very typical!!!

c'mon, cut yourself some slack. you are not perfect. no husband or wife is. that's life. point blank. but, you are stuck in the middle of the forest and you can't see the trees. i used to think that about myself, that it was i who was crazy. but, it's not true. i look back and the evidence is there. she cut a wide swath of destruction wherever she went, manipulating a lot of people in her path.

hpd's...moreso than any other pd are pro manipulators.

go to google and enter the words histrionic...and the word manipulative comes up over and over again. it is their most pronounced trait/characteristic.

it will take you a while to get your thinking back to the way it once was. you have been involved with a very manipulative and troubled woman. look at her past relationships with her parents, siblings, men, etc. the painting is clear. you married a woman afflicted with hpd...no different than if you had married someone with any other physical or emotional disease. the hpd's effect on others is also well known and characteristic.

read thru all of the posts put up by people involved with an hpd here on this forum and...they all write the same thing over and over again. the stories all carry a striking similiarity....with no real variation. what does that tell you?

you are not crazy. neither is she. she has a serious pd and until she really tries to work on it, she will just get worse and worse with age and more and more people will get caught up in her web.